Son of Hephzibah House founder speaks out on Dr. Phil

[AmazonGrace]

It is such a nice touch to keep sending so many ranty "I'm so done with you" messages after starting with, "this is the final warning".

[Jencendiary]

 

[DaisyD]

41 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Lol - the writing police again! I am so glad you are so perfect! But read this - 

I am done with you all! 
Bully someone else! I refuse to be torn down and lied about anymore! I know the facts and truth! So move along! I am done with the bs 

Do the rescue ferrets have you chained to the keyboard, forcing you to continue making yourself look bad? 

Multiple people have asked you honest questions that would have provided you the opportunity to mitigate whatever "damage" you think occurred to your reputation. Instead you're answers were all extremely defensive and rude. 

So, don't let the door hit you on the way out. This is our space, it is on you to "move along".

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

It is such a nice touch to keep sending so many ranty "I'm so done with you" messages after starting with, "this is the final warning".

It’s a super-flounce on repeat.

[AmazonGrace]

When you try to flounce but it's a revolving door and you can't figure out which way is out to the street.

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Lucinda said:

I am done with you all! 
Bully someone else! I refuse to be torn down and lied about anymore! I know the facts and truth! So move along! I am done with the bs 

We won't miss you.

Edited June 5, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Curious]

3 hours ago, Lucinda said:

Bully someone else! I refuse to be torn down and lied about anymore! I know the facts and truth! So move along! I am done with the bs 

Slow your roll here a minute. 

You sent 6 emails and posted 28 times (4 of them before I even had a chance to look into the request demand you made in the emails.    I will also note that you gave me NO information in that email with which to find what you were actually upset about.  We have almost 2 million posts on this forum so people expecting quick action need to throw us a bone when it comes to finding the needle in our haystack.  

I told you at 11:30pm that I would look into the post and get back to you.  Your reply was calm and polite, so imagine my surprise when I was notified by one of my admins that you were on the forum threatening to sue.

You barged into OUR house making demands and threats with a pretty shitty attitude and then didn't like it when you got back what you put forward.   Seems like a natural consequence to me.

People calmed down and tried to ask you questions to understand you and your services better and you  flipped between unhelpful snark and rudeness and calmer answers.

You have said several times you counsel natural consequences, but you don't seem to understand what that actually means based on your behavior here.  Disagreement is NOT bullying.  The only person trying to do any bullying here today was YOU.

You can stay or you can go, I don't really care either way, but this is our sandbox and  WE will not be "moving along" until we are good and ready.

 

[byzant]

10 hours ago, Lucinda said:

You do not have to be licensed for a Christian biblical counselor in Missouri wrong again 

 

I have done nothing to any of you so you all can attack me all you want with your lies a bs - I know the truth and have all the documentation to prove the truth - so have at it your not worth anymore of my time 

How would you know anything about my lawsuit or the other person or her claims and to say she had valid points?? How would you know- fact is she would have lost in court!!! And that is a fact!!

@LucindaNothing wrong to us but supported and provided cover to institutional child abuse of the most vile type. 

 

So yes adults on the internet you have not harmed  just vunerable children in real life 

 

Also you are the one who brought up your degrees as a way to try to intimidate other posters. So I see your "state accredited" Bible college and raise you a top 3 Russell group uni and 3 advanced degrees. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by byzant

[formergothardite]

Love and Logic sounded familiar so I Googled it and found this blog post about it. 

Quote

A quick look at materials describing Love and Logic gives the impression that the program is intended to improve parenting practices and therefore to lead to better developmental and educational outcomes for children. However, this does not seem to be exactly the case, according to the website. This describes Love and Logic as “a philosophy of raising and teaching children which allows adults to be happier, empowered, and more skilled in the interactions with children. Love allows children to grow through their mistakes. Logic allows children to live with the consequences of their choices. Love and Logic is a way of working with children that puts parents and teachers back in control, teaches children to be responsible, and prepares young people to live in the real world, with its many choices and consequences.”

I see in this paragraph two types of outcomes predicted for Love and Logic users. The first is that parents and teachers are happier and have more success in controlling children. 

Spoiler

Love and Logic is said to be easy to learn and to have “immediate results”; these statements appear to be at odds with the experiences of most evidence-based parenting programs that are successful in bringing about changes in parent-child interactions (Parent-Child Interaction Therapy, for instance). It is notable, of course, that specific methods of Love and Logic are available only upon purchase of proprietary books and CDs, so a complete analysis of plausibility is difficult.

This gave me a chuckle. 

Quote

Parenting products” are for sale, and one may join an “Insider’s Club” (the position of the apostrophe suggests that there is only one insider).

There seems to be no required training for using this program in a professional capacity. Which is a massive red flag. 

Spoiler

Much of the Love and Logic website is devoted to selling training and to attracting trainers, who when they have completed their studies, can take advantage of a “facilitator map” and national referral list. Purchasing a book “gives you the ability to offer an unlimited number of parenting classes… No additional training is required.”   This statement seems to confirm what I was told several years ago by a Love and Logic trainer--  that there was no quality control after a course was taken.

And then there is this. This is a positive review and appears to be using examples from the book. 

Quote

 provide them with realistic consequences (your daughter forgets to feed her dog, you give it away for a few days without consulting her;

 

[Lucinda]

3 hours ago, Curious said:

Slow your roll here a minute. 

You sent 6 emails and posted 28 times (4 of them before I even had a chance to look into the request demand you made in the emails.    I will also note that you gave me NO information in that email with which to find what you were actually upset about.  We have almost 2 million posts on this forum so people expecting quick action need to throw us a bone when it comes to finding the needle in our haystack.  

I told you at 11:30pm that I would look into the post and get back to you.  Your reply was calm and polite, so imagine my surprise when I was notified by one of my admins that you were on the forum threatening to sue.

You barged into OUR house making demands and threats with a pretty shitty attitude and then didn't like it when you got back what you put forward.   Seems like a natural consequence to me.

People calmed down and tried to ask you questions to understand you and your services better and you  flipped between unhelpful snark and rudeness and calmer answers.

You have said several times you counsel natural consequences, but you don't seem to understand what that actually means based on your behavior here.  Disagreement is NOT bullying.  The only person trying to do any bullying here today was YOU.

You can stay or you can go, I don't really care either way, but this is our sandbox and  WE will not be "moving along" until we are good and ready.

 

Again bully someone else - if someone lied about you - said falsehoods and continued to harass you- you would demand it to be removed as well- hh haters can be just that miserable haters- 

[AmazonGrace]

Do the people who seek counseling from you know how you behave online?

[Mrs Ms]

Late 30s here and raised in a no smack household. My teenaged single mother could figure it out ?

[Lucinda]

1 hour ago, byzant said:

@LucindaNothing wrong to us but supported and provided cover to institutional child abuse of the most vile type. 

 

So yes adults on the internet you have not harmed  just vunerable children in real life 

 

Also you are the one who brought up your degrees as a way to try to intimidate other posters. So I see your "state accredited" Bible college and raise you a top 3 Russell group uni and 3 advanced degrees. 

 

32 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Love and Logic sounded familiar so I Googled it and found this blog post about it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Love and Logic is said to be easy to learn and to have “immediate results”; these statements appear to be at odds with the experiences of most evidence-based parenting programs that are successful in bringing about changes in parent-child interactions (Parent-Child Interaction Therapy, for instance). It is notable, of course, that specific methods of Love and Logic are available only upon purchase of proprietary books and CDs, so a complete analysis of plausibility is difficult.

This gave me a chuckle. 

There seems to be no required training for using this program in a professional capacity. Which is a massive red flag. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Much of the Love and Logic website is devoted to selling training and to attracting trainers, who when they have completed their studies, can take advantage of a “facilitator map” and national referral list. Purchasing a book “gives you the ability to offer an unlimited number of parenting classes… No additional training is required.”   This statement seems to confirm what I was told several years ago by a Love and Logic trainer--  that there was no quality control after a course was taken.

And then there is this. This is a positive review and appears to be using examples from the book. 

 

For your information the state of Missouri required me to teach love and logic- so speak to the state of you disagree with their requirements- and as for Training to teach -your correct all you have to have is a GED in MO to be a caseworker or parent aide - 

you have a problem with it take it up with the state -  I had worked 12 years for the state - 

so I have answered all your stupid questions and now I am going to move on to better things - you can spend your time tearing someone else down - or if you feel the need to continue to bully and tear me down go right ahead - 

I am successful and proud of my accomplishments! I have a lot of respect from judges , lawyers, governors, senators, people who mater to me 

  

2 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Do the people who seek counseling from you know how you behave online?

How I behave? What request that lies be removed and the bullying to stop! Seriously grow up - 

1 hour ago, byzant said:

@LucindaNothing wrong to us but supported and provided cover to institutional child abuse of the most vile type. 

 

So yes adults on the internet you have not harmed  just vunerable children in real life 

 

Also you are the one who brought up your degrees as a way to try to intimidate other posters. So I see your "state accredited" Bible college and raise you a top 3 Russell group uni and 3 advanced degrees. 

I brought my degrees up because I am proud how hard I have worked to be where I am today! It was far from easy for me ! 

[nelliebelle1197]

It sounds to me like Lucinda "counsels" abusers or people who are neglecting their children or who in some way are violating the law in regard to health, education, etc. Anyone agree?

[NEOhio]

Perhaps this was an experiment by Lucinda in natural consequences?   Come to a snark forum that had not legally defamed you.  Make threats. Get mocked for poor grammar and sentence structure, not knowing what body accredited your university as a natural consequence.  As an experiment it makes much more sense...    Does FJ get 2nd authorship when the paper publishes?

Edited June 5, 2020 by NEOhio

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

For your information the state of Missouri required me to teach love and logic- so speak to the state of you disagree with their requirements- and as for Training to teach -your correct all you have to have is a GED in MO to be a caseworker or parent aide - 

you have a problem with it take it up with the state -  I had worked 12 years for the state -

It truly is a shame that the states have been sucked into this program.  It has not appeared that you disagree with this program despite it not being based on any solid research. 

But since you seem to teach natural consequences, I would think you would understand that the natural consequence of going on Dr. Phil or going to a message board and interacting is that people will disagree with you. That isn't bullying.  Our reactions might not be love, but they sure are logical. Welcome to the real world and dealing with the consequences of your actions. 

[Lucinda]

6 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It sounds to me like Lucinda "counsels" abusers or people who are neglecting their children or who in some way are violating the law in regard to health, education, etc. Anyone agree?

 

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It truly is a shame that the states have been sucked into this program.  It has not appeared that you disagree with this program despite it not being based on any solid research. 

But since you seem to teach natural consequences, I would think you would understand that the natural consequence of going on Dr. Phil or going to a message board and interacting is that people will disagree with you. That isn't bullying.  Our reactions might not be love, but they sure are logical. Welcome to the real world and dealing with the consequences of your actions. 

I never said I disagreed with the program- I like it actually been teaching the same thing way before the state told me to use it 

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It truly is a shame that the states have been sucked into this program.  It has not appeared that you disagree with this program despite it not being based on any solid research. 

But since you seem to teach natural consequences, I would think you would understand that the natural consequence of going on Dr. Phil or going to a message board and interacting is that people will disagree with you. That isn't bullying.  Our reactions might not be love, but they sure are logical. Welcome to the real world and dealing with the consequences of your actions. 

Your right but when you have people flat out lie and defamations  of you - we will see how you respond - I am tired of the bs - I have done nothing but defend myself and demand truth to be spoken and the les removed - some  are liars and have written untruths- and yes I demanded it be removed- I have that legal right to demand the lies be removed- and it doesn’t give anyone the right to bully anyone like you are doing to me- so yes move along 

[AmazonGrace]

17 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It sounds to me like Lucinda "counsels" abusers or people who are neglecting their children or who in some way are violating the law in regard to health, education, etc. Anyone agree?

Generally it seems to me that the only reason to fear taking notes so it can't be used against youif if there are people who have something to hide.

If you treat your children well it is not likely that there will be any negative repercussions because a counselor wrote it down.

29 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

 

 

  

How I behave? What request that lies be removed and the bullying to stop! Seriously grow up - 

 

If you honestly have no idea how your behavior appears I have serious doubts that you can counsel anyone else on their behavior.

Edited June 5, 2020 by AmazonGrace

[formergothardite]

 

13 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

I have that legal right to demand the lies be removed-

What does your lawyer actually think about this thread? Don't know a ton about law, but it would seem like by coming here and loudly declaring that it was not bad that you were spanked years ago, you pretty much lost your defense that anyone defamed you over spanking. 

I can't imagine a judge actually reading this thread. 

 

 

[Curious]

31 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

How I behave? What request that lies be removed and the bullying to stop! Seriously grow up - 

You didn't "request" anything. You DEMANDED...a lot of times without even giving me time to look into the post that you were talking about.

NO ONE is bullying you.  Disagreeing with you is NOT bullying.  Bullying is demanding something and then threatening legal action before you even give a chance to act on your demands.  They were NOT requests.

The only person that nees to "grow up" is you.   You wrote a book, you went on TV, and you came barreling in here with both barrels cocked when NO ONE was even talking about you anymore.   There were a measly 5 posts over a couple days when you went on Dr. Phil.  That is NOTHING here.   We have threads that get to 25 pages in hours sometimes when the topic is truly hot.   Then 2 MONTHS later there was 1 more post that didn't even get any responses.   No one cared about you, @Lucinda until YOU brought yourself to our attention with your rude behavior.

The reactions you are getting are a NATURAL CONSEQUENCE of YOUR behavior/actions.  If you can't understand that you certainly shouldn't be "counseling" other people.

[AmazonGrace]

This is the Streisand effect. I had skimmed the thread originally and forgotten all about it and couldn't tell you who or what it was about. But trollish behavior certainly makes the thread more interesting and more memorable now.

[AmazonGrace]

 

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

 provide them with realistic consequences (your daughter forgets to feed her dog, you give it away for a few days without consulting her;

 

 

Oh that's terrible... The parent here failed both to take care of the pet they had taken responsibility for and to supervise the child in her responsibilities.... and  who does the parent take it out on?  the poor innocent dog who already went without dinner and doesn't understand what's going on.

[nelliebelle1197]

54 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

 

I never said I disagreed with the program- I like it actually been teaching the same thing way before the state told me to use it 

Your right but when you have people flat out lie and defamations  of you - we will see how you respond - I am tired of the bs - I have done nothing but defend myself and demand truth to be spoken and the les removed - some  are liars and have written untruths- and yes I demanded it be removed- I have that legal right to demand the lies be removed- and it doesn’t give anyone the right to bully anyone like you are doing to me- so yes move along

You keep saying move along.

You are in our house.

We don't move along.

You do.

[Lucinda]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You keep saying move along.

You are in our house.

We don't move along.

You do.

Sure thing 

[ignorantobserver]

"

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

And then there is this. This is a positive review and appears to be using examples from the book. 

Thank you for the link ! And yes, this book absolutely promotes child abuse :

"a kid uses all his money and no longer has money for lunch. He asks if he can make his lunch from the food in the fridge. The parents agree but only under one condition: that he pays for it"

And it seems to be based on the assumption that the "real world" is filled with sociopaths and that children should be taught to behave like sociopaths, with every social interaction being a bargain or power struggle :

"the mother who refuses to give her son a ride (although he asks nicely) because the day before, he had refused to do something she had asked him to do"

So, Lucinda, this review did not make me want to buy this book and raise my children accordingly. What do you think of these examples ? Would you counsel parents to behave like this ? Or do you feel that these are not good examples of the 'Love and Logic' method ?