Son of Hephzibah House founder speaks out on Dr. Phil

[Walking Cat Bed]

11 hours ago, Lucinda said:

Lol - the writing police again! I am so glad you are so perfect! But read this - 

I am done with you all! 
Bully someone else! I refuse to be torn down and lied about anymore! I know the facts and truth! So move along! I am done with the bs 

So, to make sure I understand, since it's one of those weeks at work and my attention is rather scattered:

A conversation began six months ago, your name was mentioned in context.

Nobody said anything for six months.

You google yourself and find a six-month-old conversation that has been stagnant.

You barge in, (metaphorically) shit on the carpet, and tell us that it's our fault there's shit on the carpet and if we hadn't been talking about you none of this would have happened?

[byzant]

3 hours ago, Lucinda said:

 

For your information the state of Missouri required me to teach love and logic- so speak to the state of you disagree with their requirements- and as for Training to teach -your correct all you have to have is a GED in MO to be a caseworker or parent aide - 

you have a problem with it take it up with the state -  I had worked 12 years for the state - 

so I have answered all your stupid questions and now I am going to move on to better things - you can spend your time tearing someone else down - or if you feel the need to continue to bully and tear me down go right ahead - 

I am successful and proud of my accomplishments! I have a lot of respect from judges , lawyers, governors, senators, people who mater to me 

  

How I behave? What request that lies be removed and the bullying to stop! Seriously grow up - 

I brought my degrees up because I am proud how hard I have worked to be where I am today! It was far from easy for me ! 

@LucindaNope read your comment; you were using them to try to belittle another poster. And again you be been called on it and can't admit you were wrong. Total lack of ability to reflect on your actions isn't a great sign in someone who offers counselling. 

 

Also is this the 5th or 6th time you have declared you are done with us( a board with non mandatory participation) forever 

 

@formergothardite

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Love and Logic sounded familiar so I Googled it and found this blog post about it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Love and Logic is said to be easy to learn and to have “immediate results”; these statements appear to be at odds with the experiences of most evidence-based parenting programs that are successful in bringing about changes in parent-child interactions (Parent-Child Interaction Therapy, for instance). It is notable, of course, that specific methods of Love and Logic are available only upon purchase of proprietary books and CDs, so a complete analysis of plausibility is difficult.

This gave me a chuckle. 

There seems to be no required training for using this program in a professional capacity. Which is a massive red flag. 

  Hide contents

Much of the Love and Logic website is devoted to selling training and to attracting trainers, who when they have completed their studies, can take advantage of a “facilitator map” and national referral list. Purchasing a book “gives you the ability to offer an unlimited number of parenting classes… No additional training is required.”   This statement seems to confirm what I was told several years ago by a Love and Logic trainer--  that there was no quality control after a course was taken.

And then there is this. This is a positive review and appears to be using examples from the book. 

 

Thank you for this. Nothing says scam like sales pitches for materials and almost no training. No wonder there's no professional registration  or oversite nothing there relates to anything we could call professional or expert. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by byzant

[Alisamer]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Do the people who seek counseling from you know how you behave online?

They might now, after she single-handedly managed to take this obscure dead old thread and make it current and hot.

3 hours ago, Lucinda said:

so I have answered all your stupid questions and now I am going to move on to better things - you can spend your time tearing someone else down - or if you feel the need to continue to bully and tear me down go right ahead - 

Somebody doesn't know what bullying is, I think.

2 hours ago, Lucinda said:

I have that legal right to demand the lies be removed- and it doesn’t give anyone the right to bully anyone like you are doing to me- so yes move along 

You can demand whatever you want, the exact same as people here can say whatever they want.

 

Look. I don't get why you are here. I also don't get how you, a counselor, can't understand how terrible your posts in this thread make you look. The "lies" you are complaining about seem to be pretty minor things, as best I can tell, and more than that - until you started making a stink here it's likely no one in need of your services could even find them to read them! And if they did, they'd likely just say "Hmm." maybe research the one or two that bothered them (if any of them did), or just ask you about them. You'd explain, and all would be well.

But now... they'll read your posts here. The ones where you sound unhinged, type like a middle schooler, and come across as vindictive and angry. 

People don't want a vindictive or angry counselor. 

Please, for your own good, take a deep breath and walk away - for real, not the revolving flounce door. This was not a big deal in any way shape or form before you made it one. It was not damaging to you in any way until you made it a crisis. If it really bothers you, send the link to your lawyer and let them deal with it! 

 

And no, I'm not perfect. I do, however, prefer to present myself as someone who is reasonably intelligent and literate. I'd think someone posting under their own name about their own business would want to look professional - I know I would. If you believe that the things written about you here are damaging to your business reputation, that means you believe potential clients will be reading those things. If they'll be reading those things, then they'll be reading your posts here as well - we don't delete posts here so they are there forever. If I believed my potential clients would be reading my posts, I'd write those posts with the same tone I'd use in a professional email to a client!

[IrishCarrie]

God, I enjoyed reading through this entire thread  - thanks for the Friday afternoon giggles, guys - I needed that!!! ?

FWIW @Lucinda, I'm in Ireland, I had never heard of you, I don't have access to watch Dr. Phil on any of my TV channels (and frankly don't really like the sound of him from what I've read of his beliefs), I have no idea what Hephzibah House is and I only clicked on this thread because you made it hot.

And now I'll never forget you babes ???

[Jencendiary]

So, what you're saying is that Lucinda Pennington, uncertified 'biblical counselor' out of Raymore, MO, endorses therapies that are not evidence-based and are tantamount to child abuse

Edited June 5, 2020 by Jencendiary

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, byzant said:

Also is this the 5th or 6th time you have declared you are done with us( a board with non mandatory participation) forever 

To be pedantic about it, threatening to flounce and then not going is a violation of one of our rules.  So, Lucinda, stay or go, but another threat of a flouncing will involve some natural consequences.  You're familiar with those, right?

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, ignorantobserver said:

"

Thank you for the link ! And yes, this book absolutely promotes child abuse :

"a kid uses all his money and no longer has money for lunch. He asks if he can make his lunch from the food in the fridge. The parents agree but only under one condition: that he pays for it"

And it seems to be based on the assumption that the "real world" is filled with sociopaths and that children should be taught to behave like sociopaths, with every social interaction being a bargain or power struggle :

"the mother who refuses to give her son a ride (although he asks nicely) because the day before, he had refused to do something she had asked him to do"

So, Lucinda, this review did not make me want to buy this book and raise my children accordingly. What do you think of these examples ? Would you counsel parents to behave like this ? Or do you feel that these are not good examples of the 'Love and Logic' method ?

Well apparently she was raised by a real asshole, so she might actually think it is normal for parents to be so shitty to their children. She has a video describing how she was poor and needing gas money. This is the very first time she has asked her mother for help and her mother tells her that if she wants money then she needs to sell all the books her mom has given her in the past. And of course the story ends with her waking up the next morning having sold over a hundred dollars worth of books on Amazon. And the moral of the story is that parents shouldn't give their children hand outs and instead should make them help themselves. And while I don't think parents should spend their lives paying for everything their children want, I do think that the natural consequence of having a child is that you are committed to helping them and not just telling them they have to do it all on their own. Making your child pay for the food to make a sandwich is just insane that isn't teaching them how to be successful adults. It teaches them that their parents are jerks. 

What she doesn't really seem to touch on in her story is that if the government had pulled away all those "hand outs" she doesn't seem to like she wouldn't have been able to travel around finding free books to resell because she wouldn't have even had a house. She needed hand outs to get herself to where she could be self sufficient. She couldn't have done it all on her own. She keeps talking about how she speaks the truth and it hurts people's feelings. Well that is the truth and it probably hurts her feelings. Lucinda Pennington didn't do it on her own.

And I don't know the laws where she lives, but I don't think that renters can refuse to pay their full rent because they fixed up things around the house. I don't think they can just announce they are refusing to pay the full rent and expect to not be evicted. 

It made me chuckle that at the end of the video after lecturing people on how they need to do it all themselves, she says she is waiting on some grant money for her business.  So much helping yourself and not putting your hands out asking others for money. 

Spoiler

 

 

[Lucinda]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:17 PM, Curious said:

I wasn't scared of your lawyer when I emailed you at 11:30pm last night and told you that I would review the post you are complaining about today.   I'm sorry that I need sleep and have a life outside this forum that also requires my attention so your whining about a single post on the internet wasn't the first thing I did when I woke up today.

As I said, I will review the post and do research before committing to any action.  I can tell you this already from the little I did last night (well after normal business hours, I might add).

1. Apparently your lawyer doesn't know the difference between libel and slander.

2. Right on the Guidestar page for your business it says a/k/a Lucinda Grace Pennington LLC

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/46-3936542

So while I wouldn't call it a shell corporation it would be a DBA (doing business as)

3. You didn't "win" the case against Melissa Clark.  You apparently reached a settlement and voluntarily dismissed the case as a result.  Ms. Clark filed a counter-claim as well.  Before the settlement you and Ms. Clark agreed to arbitration.

The court docket for those interested: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6636227/lucinda-grace-pennington-llc-v-clark/

4. You apparently have never heard of the "Streisand Effect."  This thread had no activity for 3 months and when it was posted it was a "current event" as you apparently went on the Dr. Phil Show.   No one would have posted on it again most likely and it would have died a pain free death.  It will probably be "hot" later today because you couldn't be patient and let me get back to you later today.

5. You have way too much time on your hands.   I googled "Lucinda Grace Pennington" and this thread doesn't show up in the first 6 pages.  "Lucinda Pennington" comes up on page 6.  "Overcomers Counseling Center" doesn't come up in the entire 12 pages google gave me.

So now I will finish up the stuff in RL that requires my attention and then I will do what I said I was going to do last night.   Right now, based on what I know and the fact that you have decided to participate on the forum, which you are welcome to do, and give your side of the story so people can make up their own minds and do their own research there is no reason to violate our TOS and Guidelines (which you agreed to when you registered and posted here) and remove the post.

Please remove the legal case welcome to leave the rest but that is a legal matter that is my concern 

[AmazonGrace]

Seems to me the court dockets are public record. 

[anjulibai]

This thread is hilarious!

[byzant]

1 hour ago, Lucinda said:

Please remove the legal case welcome to leave the rest but that is a legal matter that is my concern 

@Lucindabecause this has already been explained by a lovely paralegal( eddited to add @Marmion)- who you mocked for having a accredited qualification related to their job not your two unaccredited  'degrees' -being pretty pieces of paper provided by businesses you paid for them- no one here is making a legal case. That is done in court.

 

What they are doing is referring to matters on the public record and their opinion  . You can demand it be removed just as i can demand a millon pounds and henry cavill as my sex slave- and have as much standing to do so. 

You have no grounds to demand anything and should probably spend some more time on reflecting on your actions in  supporting child abusers and child abuse and less on googling yourself and objecting to people stating things you are on the public record as having done. 

For someone so quick with threats of litigation your ignorance of the law is embarrassing 

4 hours ago, Jencendiary said:

So, what you're saying is that Lucinda Pennington, uncertified 'biblical counselor' out of Raymore, MO, endorses therapies that are not evidence-based and are tantamount to child abuse

Love this and repeat it merrily! 

1 hour ago, anjulibai said:

This thread is hilarious!

True! 

Edited June 5, 2020 by byzant
Adding source

[willlurkforjillnanigans]

1 hour ago, Lucinda said:

Please remove the legal case welcome to leave the rest but that is a legal matter that is my concern 

On 6/4/2020 at 1:22 PM, Lucinda said:

This platform can be sued and those who post lies and slander me - I have won every time I sued - public records check it out 
 

 

I just read here for fun and have never posted and can’t figure out how to quote this properly, but wow...you told people yesterday to check out the court records and when they did, you get aggravated and say it’s a legal matter that’s your concern and please remove it? First day on the internet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NEOhio]

1 hour ago, Lucinda said:

Please remove the legal case welcome to leave the rest but that is a legal matter that is my concern 

Sorry, out of lurkerdom again.  Lucinda continues to be nails on a chalkboard and I am no grammar fiend. As others have pointed out, the more attention you draw to this thread, the more negative people may view you. That is being caused only by your own actions. You are experiencing a case of natural consequences.  Fascinating, let’s get some popcorn  

 

[Cat Damon]

26 minutes ago, byzant said:

just as i can demand a millon pounds and henry cavill as my sex slave-

Please let me know how this works out for you ?

[Curious]

2 hours ago, Lucinda said:

Please remove the legal case welcome to leave the rest but that is a legal matter that is my concern 

No!  It's public record, easily googled.  

55 minutes ago, willlurkforjillnanigans said:

On 6/4/2020 at 1:22 PM, Lucinda said:

This platform can be sued and those who post lies and slander me - I have won every time I sued - public records check it out 

Thank you!   I knew I remembered her specifically saying to check the public records (btw, I only looked for this one specific case), but when I looked back I didn't see the quote.

It's hard to link from a prior page, so you did fine    Post more now that you've broken the ice!

[byzant]

1 hour ago, Cat Damon said:

Please let me know how this works out for you ?

I'm always optimistic and that jaw line is worth a try ????

[Curious]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

And I don't know the laws where she lives, but I don't think that renters can refuse to pay their full rent because they fixed up things around the house. I don't think they can just announce they are refusing to pay the full rent and expect to not be evicted. 

This varies by state. There are ways renters can do this, but it involves things like notice to the landlord and it's not like if you just decide to "improve" your rental (like say you decide to repaint) you can't just deduct that from the rent like it's a "gift" to the landlord.

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

What she doesn't really seem to touch on in her story is that if the government had pulled away all those "hand outs" she doesn't seem to like she wouldn't have been able to travel around finding free books to resell because she wouldn't have even had a house. She needed hand outs to get herself to where she could be self sufficient. She couldn't have done it all on her own. She keeps talking about how she speaks the truth and it hurts people's feelings. Well that is the truth and it probably hurts her feelings. Lucinda Pennington didn't do it on her own.

During my adventures yesterday I ran across this: https://wcmcaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Newsletter-spring-2010.pdf

I can't figure out how to link the right page, but scroll down to page 5/8 and there is a story about how Lucinda and her husband pulled themselves out of debt and got to be self-sufficient.   It sounds like Lucinda worked hard, which good for her.  No snark at all!  She didn't do it *all* on her own though, as you mention @formergothardite.

In fact, it sounds like she used the social safety net programs exactly the way they were meant to be used (as a hand up not a handout) and shows why we need programs to help people.   I'd much rather my tax dollars went to programs to help people than some of the other things they are used for.

[VVV]

I am still trying to wrap my mind around

(1) parents punishing a dog for a child’s forgetfulness 

(2) parents insisting a child pay for food from the family refrigerator 

(3) anyone who isn’t horrified by (1) or (2)

That’s all.

[Curious]

5 minutes ago, VVV said:

2) parents insisting a child pay for food from the family refrigerator 

This got me thinking.  In the example, the child (age unstated, but has the ability to spend money independently) asked for permission to make themselves a sandwich for their lunch.   I'm trying to think of a time I asked permission to use food in the family fridge that wasn't a "treat" type of thing. 

Like if it was close to a meal and I wanted ice cream, I might have asked if it was ok.   I can't think of another time I ever couldn't just take the food I wanted when I wanted it.    I suspect my mom would have been thrilled if I took the initiative to make my own damn lunch

[Destiny]

I am still trying to wrap my mind around
(1) parents punishing a dog for a child’s forgetfulness 
(2) parents insisting a child pay for food from the family refrigerator 
(3) anyone who isn’t horrified by (1) or (2)
That’s all.

I’ve been there on both counts. I still have nightmares and trust issues sabout how I grew up, many years later, and serious issues with food to this day.

[VVV]

10 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I’ve been there on both counts. I still have nightmares and trust issues sabout how I grew up, many years later, and serious issues with food to this day.

I’m so sorry. What an awful way to grow up.

[Marmion]

3 hours ago, byzant said:

because this has already been explained by a lovCommission#Criticism added to add @Marmion)- who you mocked for having a accredited qualification related to their job not your two unaccredited  'degrees' -being pretty pieces of paper provided by businesses you paid for them- no one here is making a legal case. That is done in court

Oh she did , did she ?   You see , I had not even been reading her replies , as I hadn't wanted to get into a personal spat with her , and create stress for us both .  However , for the record , no I don't believe that I received my degree from a diploma mill . Both my degree in paralegal studies , and medical transcription was from Stratford Career Institute  https://www.scitraining.com/about-stratford-career-institute ,  using materials written by qualified lawyers , and nurses .  Her accreditation , on the other hand was from the Higher Learning Commission  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Learning_Commission#Criticism .  So her credentials might not be any more valid than that of my sister , whom has training in among other things pastoral counseling , from a Bible college , affiliated with the Church of God , Anderson , Ind.  I don't know what all my sister studied as part of such training , besides the various " humors " , which she uses to categorize everyone's personality .  { https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_temperaments }  ( According to my sister , who out of curiosity I asked , I seem to her to be a melancholic , by the way .  And , just for fun , if anyone is curious as to what your "humor" supposedly is , you can take this test here https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/O4TS/ )  And speaking of accreditation , many home education programs , which we here at FreeJinger like to call the " school of the dining room table " , would constitute unaccredited diploma mills .  One such example might arguably be said to be A.C.E. , which on the topic of this thread , was what Hephzibah House used .  { https://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2017/03/21/iowa-state-bill-allow-unaccredited-fundamentalist-curriculum/  ,  https://brucegerencser.net/2015/08/the-anatomy-of-an-unaccredited-christian-school/ }  So graduates from such a program might not have any more than a diploma issued by the HSLDA , or whomever else, and filled out by the family member whom oversaw the instruction .  https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/how-to-obtain-a-homeschool-diploma/  Anyway , I can only hope that any of my prospectful employers , or clients , will accept my qualifications as being valid , in spite of my lack of formal classroom instruction .  My high school diploma is from what is now known as Penn Foster  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Foster_High_School , and I know that they are a well established , and accredited correspondence school .  Out of my siblings , I am actually the only one to graduate from such a high school distance learning program , the rest , including my sister , and my foster brother / cousin , whom is currently trying to enlist in the U.S. Army , we'll see if they will accept his HSLDA made diploma , were both homeschooled using Accelerated Christian Education curriculum .  So , in conclusion , yes credentials are important , but not all home study courses are diploma mill scams .  And I feel that I have received the best education that a stay at home son , without a driver' license , could have , under the circumstances , at home .  

[AmazonGrace]

8 hours ago, willlurkforjillnanigans said:

On 6/4/2020 at 1:22 PM, Lucinda said:

This platform can be sued and those who post lies and slander me - I have won every time I sued - public records check it out 
 

 

I just read here for fun and have never posted and can’t figure out how to quote this properly, but wow...you told people yesterday to check out the court records and when they did, you get aggravated and say it’s a legal matter that’s your concern and please remove it? First day on the internet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if Lucinda Grace Pennington, biblical counselor extraordinaire, sobered up and forgot some of her previous drunk posting.

[byzant]

9 hours ago, Marmion said:

Oh she did , did she ?   You see , I had not even been reading her replies , as I hadn't wanted to get into a personal spat with her , and create stress for us both .  However , for the record , no I don't believe that I received my degree from a diploma mill . Both my degree in paralegal studies , and medical transcription was from Stratford Career Institute  https://www.scitraining.com/about-stratford-career-institute ,  using materials written by qualified lawyers , and nurses .  Her accreditation , on the other hand was from the Higher Learning Commission  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Learning_Commission#Criticism .  So her credentials might not be any more valid than that of my sister , whom has training in among other things pastoral counseling , from a Bible college , affiliated with the Church of God , Anderson , Ind.  I don't know what all my sister studied as part of such training , besides the various " humors " , which she uses to categorize everyone's personality .  { https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_temperaments }  ( According to my sister , who out of curiosity I asked , I seem to her to be a melancholic , by the way .  And , just for fun , if anyone is curious as to what your "humor" supposedly is , you can take this test here https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/O4TS/ )  And speaking of accreditation , many home education programs , which we here at FreeJinger like to call the " school of the dining room table " , would constitute unaccredited diploma mills .  One such example might arguably be said to be A.C.E. , which on the topic of this thread , was what Hephzibah House used .  { https://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2017/03/21/iowa-state-bill-allow-unaccredited-fundamentalist-curriculum/  ,  https://brucegerencser.net/2015/08/the-anatomy-of-an-unaccredited-christian-school/ }  So graduates from such a program might not have any more than a diploma issued by the HSLDA , or whomever else, and filled out by the family member whom oversaw the instruction .  https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/how-to-obtain-a-homeschool-diploma/  Anyway , I can only hope that any of my prospectful employers , or clients , will accept my qualifications as being valid , in spite of my lack of formal classroom instruction .  My high school diploma is from what is now known as Penn Foster  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Foster_High_School , and I know that they are a well established , and accredited correspondence school .  Out of my siblings , I am actually the only one to graduate from such a high school distance learning program , the rest , including my sister , and my foster brother / cousin , whom is currently trying to enlist in the U.S. Army , we'll see if they will accept his HSLDA made diploma , were both homeschooled using Accelerated Christian Education curriculum .  So , in conclusion , yes credentials are important , but not all home study courses are diploma mill scams .  And I feel that I have received the best education that a stay at home son , without a driver' license , could have , under the circumstances , at home .  

Absolutely :sorry i didnt mean to imply anything but praise for your qualification and my critism was specifically about lucinda trying to intimidate people on the grounds of shakey qualifications. I  just found it funny that @Lucinda was dismissing your clearly written, helpful info because of her "qualifications" . 

 Thank you for the info and the links. I find it facinating as i had a very traditional academic childhood and its so intersting to see how many other options/ paths people have taken. 

From how you write here any of the lawyers i work with would be delighted to work with someone with your skills! Good luck. And hope your brother gets the issues resolved. 

Our of interest Is your user name from walter scott? 

Ha they dont seriously use humoural theory do they- i mean its facinating as part of history but was outdated in the 16th centuary! Thank you for the test im melancholic  which to be fair i could have guessed

Edited June 6, 2020 by byzant
Spelling

[byzant]

10 hours ago, Curious said:

This got me thinking.  In the example, the child (age unstated, but has the ability to spend money independently) asked for permission to make themselves a sandwich for their lunch.   I'm trying to think of a time I asked permission to use food in the family fridge that wasn't a "treat" type of thing. 

Like if it was close to a meal and I wanted ice cream, I might have asked if it was ok.   I can't think of another time I ever couldn't just take the food I wanted when I wanted it.    I suspect my mom would have been thrilled if I took the initiative to make my own damn lunch

 

10 hours ago, Destiny said:

I’ve been there on both counts. I still have nightmares and trust issues sabout how I grew up, many years later, and serious issues with food to this day.

I am so sorry @Destiny thats textbook abusive and its totally understandable that it would contribute to food and trust  issues