Son of Hephzibah House founder speaks out on Dr. Phil

[Lucinda]

Just now, catlady said:

And doesn’t a plaintiff have the burden of proof?  I’m really interested in learning how a dead thread has caused irreparable harm to anyone.  It was live for exactly two days in January until a now-defunct user posted once in March that garnered a whopping four reactions.  I had thoroughly forgotten that I’d read the January posts until it was revived today. 

I have all the proof I need 

[byzant]

@catlady not only that but has to prove actual harm not just hurt feelings 

Edited June 4, 2020 by byzant
Spelling

[Alisamer]

12 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

...

Internet Defamation

Internet Defamation is an unlawful practice by which individuals seek to defame or slander others through fictitious allegations that leads to irreversible harm onto one’s reputation.

Frankly, appearing here, digging this old post up, then hammering on about contacting your lawyer has done far, far more harm to your reputation than this one post from months ago that doesn't even show up in the first 6 pages at least when someone Googles your name. The more attention this post gets (because of YOU bumping it) the higher in the Google rankings it'll be. 

So go ahead. You are literally the only person causing harm to your reputation here, and any reputable judge is likely to take one look at this, wonder if they can have you committed, and laugh at you.

[catlady]

3 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

I have all the proof I need 

        

[Lucinda]

7 minutes ago, catlady said:

And doesn’t a plaintiff have the burden of proof?  I’m really interested in learning how a dead thread has caused irreparable harm to anyone.  It was live for exactly two days in January until a now-defunct user posted once in March that garnered a whopping four reactions.  I had thoroughly forgotten that I’d read the January posts until it was revived today. 

Wrong again my issue is the post made March 2

[Themanda Duggar]

3 hours ago, Lucinda said:

Remove the lies and slander of me or you will be hearing from my lawyer 

Hey Lucinda,

I’ll see your lawyer, and raise you 2 affidavits and a deposition...

Do you understand that this is like sport for us?

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Wrong again my issue is the post made March 2

How worried can you be about your name being slandered/libeled if you don't actually want to clarify when asked? The about me on back of your book very easily can be read by people who don't know a lot about social services as you being a social worker. Honestly, that is what I would assume just reading the back. It says you are a Youth specialist 2 for the department of social services. Plenty of people would take that as the same as a social worker. 

When it comes to spanking, it does seem like even in your answer here you might be okay with spanking, depending on what you meant by it being okay 30 years ago.

Doesn't it make more sense to clarify so people are aware instead of just screaming threats? If you truly want your name to not be defamed. 

[Lucinda]

4 minutes ago, Themanda Duggar said:

Hey Lucinda,

I’ll see your lawyer, and raise you 2 affidavits and a deposition...

Do you understand that this is like sport for us?

Lol - seriously stop the non sense- affidavits lol and a deposition 

[Sweet Caroline]

Ok, so I watch Dr. Phil every so often, but I had never heard of this Lucinda person or had seen the episode. When I saw that this thread was “hot”, I had to see what it was all about. Now it is getting lots of attention. And to quote Lucinda, “lol”!

[AmazonGrace]

I'm curious why calling someone a social worker constitutes defamation or causes irreparable harm to their reputation.  Some people study hard so they might be called social workers one day.

[nelliebelle1197]

34 minutes ago, catlady said:

And doesn’t a plaintiff have the burden of proof?  I’m really interested in learning how a dead thread has caused irreparable harm to anyone.  It was live for exactly two days in January until a now-defunct user posted once in March that garnered a whopping four reactions.  I had thoroughly forgotten that I’d read the January posts until it was revived today. 

I think even more than that, her status as published author and talk show guest make her a willing public figure. Too bad. Not sad.

[fraurosena]

54 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Consequently, a webmaster may be sued for libeling someone by trashing their reputation on a blog, 

Oh, sweetheart! Poor dear, you seem to have a problem with understanding the meaning of words, like here, where you are conflating a blog with a forum, which are two very different things.

But, never fear. Your condition does not need to be permanent. There is actually a solution for your problem. It's called a dictionary. You might find it useful.

Oh! In case you don't know what a dictionary is, here's the definition for you:

 

[formergothardite]

58 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Lol - seriously stop the non sense- affidavits lol and a deposition 

Seriously, stop with the righteous indignation when you have written things that can be easily misunderstood and then refuse to offer any clarification. Going to be kinda hard to sue. 

[Marmion]

Imagine my surprise when I saw how hot this old thread had become .  I had wondered why I all of the sudden had gotten a a thank you reaction to the post in this thread I had made , from @AnnaSofia . Thanks , by the way . I really appreciate it .  Now , on the topic of defamation of character , which is what I think is the legal term that @Lucinda is trying to grasp at , while I am not allowed to give official commentary on this , as I am merely a certificated paralegal , and not a liscenced attorney at law , I am permitted to cite articles from those whom are bona fide lawyers .  So that's what I'll now do .  

Quote

Defamation law tries to balance competing interests: On the one hand, people should not ruin others' lives by telling lies about them; but on the other hand, people should be able to speak freely without fear of litigation over every insult, disagreement, or mistake. Political and social disagreement is important in a free society, and we obviously don't all share the same opinions or beliefs. For instance, political opponents often reach opposite conclusions from the same facts, and editorial cartoonists often exaggerate facts to make their point.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.html   

Quote

At its core, defamation is a catch-all term used to describe a statement that unjustly hurts someone’s reputation. Libel is the written form of a statement that hurts someone’s reputation while slander is the spoken form, but with the advent of the internet, things can get a little more complicated than that...  

First of all, you have to prove the statement was an intentional misrepresentation or lie. With slander (verbal defamation,) things get a little tricker. Of course, a key portion is that you have to prove – beyond a reasonable doubt – that this person actually said what you’re claiming they said.

The trickiest part for libel lies in the second portion: proving that the defamatory statement was intended with actual malice. An untrue statement, to be considered defamatory, needs to be said with the intentional misrepresentation of facts with the intention to cause you harm. IE: The person needs to be knowingly lying while knowing this lie will cause you harm...  

It is only considered defamation of character if the statement has caused you harm already, not if it has the potential to cause you harm. This is a tricky line to walk for the court and a frustrating one for many people who are looking to prevent damage. But the court cannot act on something that might happen unless there’s proof that something has alreadyhappened. IE: if you’ve already seen negative effects, you’ll likely see more if this went unchecked. If you haven’t, there’s a chance you may never see any negatives as a result of the slander or libel.

In order to win the claim, you are going to need to prove that the false statement has ruined your reputation. If you are a business owner, for example, you would need to prove how the statement has had a devastating impact on your business. 

 

https://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/    

Quote

Opinions, by their very nature of being opinion rather than fact, cannot be false. It is difficult to bring a successful libel action against an opinion because defamation/libel require a falsity.Despite this, the Court has not afforded exclusive constitutional protection to opinion. Under the common law prior to the Supreme Court ruling on the subject, opinion was only protected from defamation if it was based on substantially true facts that fully and fairly justified the opinion.In the 1990 decision Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., the Supreme Court declined to create a full exemption to defamation for opinions. The Court reasoned that creating a wholesale exemption would make it too easy to hide defamatory implications and assertions behind opinion. The only opinions which would be privileged and protected are those about matters of public concern which are not based on false facts, or opinions that cannot be interpreted to state any facts about the plaintiff...  Under Common Law, a plaintiff is presumed to have been damaged whenever they can show that a defamatory statement has been published about them, without needing specific proof at trial that they were harmed. Gertz overruled this common law principle, requiring that presumed damages or punitive damages may not be awarded unless a plaintiff may show defendant had knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth.However, in Dun & Bradstreet v. Greenmoss Builders, the Court emphasized that presumed damages were still available to plaintiffs if they involved private individuals and statements that were not of the public interest. The defendant in that case, a credit agency, notified several of its subscribers that the plaintiff construction company had voluntarily filed for bankruptcy. The report on the plaintiff was extremely inaccurate, and plaintiff sued. The Court held that presumed damages do not violate the First Amendment when the statements are not of public concern. In that case, the credit of plaintiff was not of public concern, only concerning the immediate parties to the case and the subscribers.Compensatory Damages
 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Marmion

[Marmion]

(Continued from above )  https://constitutionallawreporter.com/amendment-01/freedom-speech/defamation/  If we on this forum hadn't already thought of Independent Fundamental Baptists as being comparable to a cult , we sure will now that thin skinned persons , such as @Lucinda , have been coming out of the woodwork to threaten litigation .  It resembles Scientology , or something .  

Spoiler

 

( continued from above , as I keep running out of space )  

Spoiler

 

We're not scared little children who can be intimidated into silence .  And as long as the administers of this forum have the funds to do so , I would advise them to challenge this in court , if necessary .  I mean I would if it weren't possibly going to be misconstrued as being legal advice , and therefore unlicenced practice of law .  FreeJinger can do what it thinks best , but if I were them , I would not worry about such a frivolous legal claim . 

[Lucinda]

1 hour ago, Marmion said:

Imagine my surprise when I saw how hot this old thread had become .  I had wondered why I all of the sudden had gotten a a thank you reaction to the post in this thread I had made , from @AnnaSofia . Thanks , by the way . I really appreciate it .  Now , on the topic of defamation of character , which is what I think is the legal term that @Lucinda is trying to grasp at , while I am not allowed to give official commentary on this , as I am merely a certificated paralegal , and not a liscenced attorney at law , I am permitted to cite articles from those whom are bona fide lawyers .  So that's what I'll now do .  

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.html   

https://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-do-you-prove-a-defamation-of-character-claim/    

Oh no a licensed paralegal!! No college degrees required to be a licensed paralegal and your just so knowledgeable! Thank you so much for your input - I am sure your law office is so proud of you - what is your real name and address so I can thank you personally with a nice letter 

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Oh no a licensed paralegal!! No college degrees required to be a licensed paralegal and your just so knowledgeable! Thank you so much for your input - I am sure your law office is so proud of you - what is your real name and address so I can thank you personally with a nice letter 

I'm beginning to think this is just a troll. If it was truly someone concerned about being defamed they would have answered questions and clarified things. Or, you know, just have had their lawyer send a letter. 

[Curious]

Well this thread is hot.  Called that one.

I've done some more research and consulted with an attorney and since Lucinda is a member here I am going to move her post where she is clarifying the "lies" to recommended so it will appear at the top of every page in this thread.

@Lucinda will, of course, be free to continue to give her side of the story as she sees fit.

Now that I have done sufficient research I want to clarify one thing from my earlier post so the correct information is out there.  I found all this from info available to the public.

On the Guidestar page for Overcomers Counseling Center, Inc. it says aka Lucinda Grace Pennington.  Since aka means Also Known As it is easy to think that there is a shell company or DBA.

They are actually 2 separate LLCs.   Obviously Overcomers Counseling Center is a 501(c)3 because it has a Guidestar page.  It is a charity in good standing according to the lookup of the LLC registration.  The other LLC is not a charity organization, but is active.

While my research shows that you need a license to be a therapist/counselor in Missouri, I did not find her listed in the Professional Board look up thingy.  I am not saying she is NOT licensed,  just that she did not show up in my searches.   It's entirely possible I did something wrong since this was all on the fly research today.

She does have an NPI number which has something to do with taking insurance and medicare, but that is way above the research time I want to put into this to learn the nitty gritty about it.   I would think to be able to have an NPI number that one would have to be licensed so not sure why that seems like a disconnect.

She is right that there is boatloads of public information if one decides to look.

I'm relieved to learn that the post was sent to her by a "friend" and she wasn't sifting through page upon page search results.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about the "win" or "loss" of the court case, since it didn't actually go to court.  That is mostly semantics.  I would imagine the defendant felt like not going to court was a win of sorts even if she ended up paying money in the settlement.    I think several of her (Lucinda's) claims were valid and she should have won had it gone to court, ftr.

I'm unsure why you are upset to be confused with a social worker as well.  Most of them work hard and are drastically overworked. 

@Marmion paralegal solidarity!   I have a BS in Paralegal Studies from the first ABA approved program in the country back in the dark ages.   I was studying for the certification when I was disabled.  I think I still have all my index cards and study guides in a box somewhere.  I miss the work, not the people

@formergothardite the attorney I talked to today confirmed that asking for removal is the first step.  I don't think her attorney probably meant be a insufferable nag, but what do I know.

So hopefully this is now resolved and we can all go back to constant worry about the pandemic, the protests and 45* turning into a tinpot dictator and the US into a banana republic...yay!

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Curious
clarifying who I was referring to in the paragraph about the court case.

[Lucinda]

3 minutes ago, Curious said:

Well this thread is hot.  Called that one.

I've done some more research and consulted with an attorney and since Lucinda is a member here I am going to move her post where she is clarifying the "lies" to recommended so it will appear at the top of every page in this thread.

@Lucinda will, of course, be free to continue to give her side of the story as she sees fit.

Now that I have done sufficient research I want to clarify one thing from my earlier post so the correct information is out there.  I found all this from info available to the public.

On the Guidestar page for Overcomers Counseling Center, Inc. it says aka Lucinda Grace Pennington.  Since aka means Also Known As it is easy to think that there is a shell company or DBA.

They are actually 2 separate LLCs.   Obviously Overcomers Counseling Center is a 501(c)3 because it has a Guidestar page.  It is a charity in good standing according to the lookup of the LLC registration.  The other LLC is not a charity organization, but is active.

While my research shows that you need a license to be a therapist/counselor in Missouri, I did not find her listed in the Professional Board look up thingy.  I am not saying she is NOT licensed,  just that she did not show up in my searches.   It's entirely possible I did something wrong since this was all on the fly research today.

She does have an NPI number which has something to do with taking insurance and medicare, but that is way above the research time I want to put into this to learn the nitty gritty about it.   I would think to be able to have an NPI number that one would have to be licensed so not sure why that seems like a disconnect.

She is right that there is boatloads of public information if one decides to look.

I'm relieved to learn that the post was sent to her by a "friend" and she wasn't sifting through page upon page search results.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about the "win" or "loss" of the court case, since it didn't actually go to court.  That is mostly semantics.  I would imagine the defendant felt like not going to court was a win of sorts even if she ended up paying money in the settlement.    I think several of her claims were valid and she should have won had it gone to court, ftr.

I'm unsure why you are upset to be confused with a social worker as well.  Most of them work hard and are drastically overworked. 

@Marmion paralegal solidarity!   I have a BS in Paralegal Studies from the first ABA approved program in the country back in the dark ages.   I was studying for the certification when I was disabled.  I think I still have all my index cards and study guides in a box somewhere.  I miss the work, not the people

@formergothardite the attorney I talked to today confirmed that asking for removal is the first step.  I don't think her attorney probably meant be a insufferable nag, but what do I know.

So hopefully this is now resolved and we can all go back to constant worry about the pandemic, the protests and 45* turning into a tinpot dictator and the US into a banana republic...yay!

 

 

 

You do not have to be licensed for a Christian biblical counselor in Missouri wrong again 

 

I have done nothing to any of you so you all can attack me all you want with your lies a bs - I know the truth and have all the documentation to prove the truth - so have at it your not worth anymore of my time 

9 minutes ago, Curious said:

Well this thread is hot.  Called that one.

I've done some more research and consulted with an attorney and since Lucinda is a member here I am going to move her post where she is clarifying the "lies" to recommended so it will appear at the top of every page in this thread.

@Lucinda will, of course, be free to continue to give her side of the story as she sees fit.

Now that I have done sufficient research I want to clarify one thing from my earlier post so the correct information is out there.  I found all this from info available to the public.

On the Guidestar page for Overcomers Counseling Center, Inc. it says aka Lucinda Grace Pennington.  Since aka means Also Known As it is easy to think that there is a shell company or DBA.

They are actually 2 separate LLCs.   Obviously Overcomers Counseling Center is a 501(c)3 because it has a Guidestar page.  It is a charity in good standing according to the lookup of the LLC registration.  The other LLC is not a charity organization, but is active.

While my research shows that you need a license to be a therapist/counselor in Missouri, I did not find her listed in the Professional Board look up thingy.  I am not saying she is NOT licensed,  just that she did not show up in my searches.   It's entirely possible I did something wrong since this was all on the fly research today.

She does have an NPI number which has something to do with taking insurance and medicare, but that is way above the research time I want to put into this to learn the nitty gritty about it.   I would think to be able to have an NPI number that one would have to be licensed so not sure why that seems like a disconnect.

She is right that there is boatloads of public information if one decides to look.

I'm relieved to learn that the post was sent to her by a "friend" and she wasn't sifting through page upon page search results.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about the "win" or "loss" of the court case, since it didn't actually go to court.  That is mostly semantics.  I would imagine the defendant felt like not going to court was a win of sorts even if she ended up paying money in the settlement.    I think several of her claims were valid and she should have won had it gone to court, ftr.

I'm unsure why you are upset to be confused with a social worker as well.  Most of them work hard and are drastically overworked. 

@Marmion paralegal solidarity!   I have a BS in Paralegal Studies from the first ABA approved program in the country back in the dark ages.   I was studying for the certification when I was disabled.  I think I still have all my index cards and study guides in a box somewhere.  I miss the work, not the people

@formergothardite the attorney I talked to today confirmed that asking for removal is the first step.  I don't think her attorney probably meant be a insufferable nag, but what do I know.

So hopefully this is now resolved and we can all go back to constant worry about the pandemic, the protests and 45* turning into a tinpot dictator and the US into a banana republic...yay!

 

 

 

How would you know anything about my lawsuit or the other person or her claims and to say she had valid points?? How would you know- fact is she would have lost in court!!! And that is a fact!!

[Curious]

2 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

You do not have to be licensed for a Christian biblical counselor in Missouri wrong again 

 

I have done nothing to any of you so you all can attack me all you want with your lies a bs - I know the truth and have all the documentation to prove the truth - so have at it your not worth anymore of my time 

Look lady, I just wasted a few hours of my day researching all this stuff for a post that was 3 months old and had no responses so you don't need to get attitude with me.  You didn't need to waste any of your time today if you had just let me do what I told you I was going to do last night.   This thread would still be dead.

I very plainly stated I was not clear about the licensing.  I was trying to give you a fair shake, but you don't care about that apparently.

Now that you have clarified it, I find it horrifying that you (general not you specifically) can be a therapist with no license.  Talk about an area being ripe for abuse.  We (the US) need to do better with mental health care!

You are right you didn't do anything to "us," but you wrote a book and you went on the freaking Dr. Phil Show, FFS.  People are going to talk about you and you should have known that before you went on the show.   If you didn't want attention from a wide range of people, you shouldn't have gone on his show.  

 

9 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

How would you know anything about my lawsuit or the other person or her claims and to say she had valid points?? How would you know- fact is she would have lost in court!!! And that is a fact!!

FFS!   I said YOU had valid claims and should have won if it had gone to court.  The filings are all public.  I read them because I was trying to make sure I was fair to you.   Calm yourself down and READ what is actually being said, not what you think is being said because you think I'm some kind of hater.   I had no clue this thread even existed until your email last night.   Everything I know about you comes from YOU directly (not a great impression, tbh) and my research today (gives a better impression, so maybe shut up now)

I just reread what I said and realized that it could be confusing which "her" I was talking about so I edited my post to clarify.

[Howl]

The thing that most grates on my very last nerve is Lucinda's poor grammar and weak sentence structure. SRSLY,  grammarly.com  can help! 

[Lucinda]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I'm beginning to think this is just a troll. If it was truly someone concerned about being defamed they would have answered questions and clarified things. Or, you know, just have had their lawyer send a letter. 

Why would I answer what you already know !! 
but okay here you go!

no 30 years ago society or myself saw spankings as abuse ! Now today 30 years later it is abuse!! 
 

[nelliebelle1197]

8 minutes ago, Howl said:

The thing that most grates on my very last nerve is Lucinda's poor grammar and weak sentence structure. SRSLY,  grammarly.com  can help! 

I think she needs actual education first. Can you imagine this dolt counseling anyone effectively when she cannot even form a cogent thought?

[Lucinda]

9 minutes ago, Howl said:

The thing that most grates on my very last nerve is Lucinda's poor grammar and weak sentence structure. SRSLY,  grammarly.com  can help! 

Screw you! Understand that structure! I am fed up with the bs 

1 minute ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I think she needs actual education first. Can you imagine this dolt counseling anyone effectively when she cannot even form a cogent thought?

Two masters degrees from a university- what do you have since you all want to attack me bring it on!! 

[Giraffe]

If she’s a “biblical counselor,” and not a counselor who believes she’s biblical, there is in my opinion (lest I get a sued for whatever she will think I can be sued for ?) a very harmful, victim-blaming teaching that is called “biblical counseling.” In my opinion and experience, it’s not a psychological based therapy, it’s one that uses bible verses to bible bash people who’ve come to them for help in their time of need. Also called “nouthetic counseling.” 
 

Eta: here’s a link to one Christian’s critique of it. http://www.heresthejoy.com/2017/09/heres-an-abuse-survivors-plea-about-nouthetic-biblical-counseling/

Edited June 5, 2020 by Giraffe
Adding imo