No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[hoipolloi]

Commentary on the case & their island-hopping from a retired FBI agent:

Quote

Montoya finds it unusual that the Daybells are spending their time in “paradise” but is confident law enforcement officers are tracking their every move. The FBI is assisting with the case, meaning local police departments have access to the agency’s forensic evidence lab and behavioral science program.

While it may appear to the public that investigators aren’t doing anything, Montoya says a lot is happening behind the scenes and police are leaving “no stone unturned.”

“Your biggest fear as an investigator is when the lead well dries up. So keeping it high profile, using the media to promote the investigation, talking to a lot of different jurisdictions – they’re doing anything and everything they can do to uncover more leads,” he says.

ETA: 10-minute TV interview based on the above story can be seen here:

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

EDIT!  When you click on the hoipolloi's link above [Commentary on the case & their island-hopping from a retired FBI agent],  the video begins with Lori and Chad standing at a counter getting a rental car.  Lori looks like shit.  Then the video goes directly to the interview with retired agent Montoya. 

From websleuth: 

From EastIdahoNews, Nate Eaton I think:

Quote

Thanks to the kind woman in Maui who just sent me these photos and an email. Part of it reads:

"We were on the same shuttle from the Maui airport to the rental car annex as Chad & Lori. They rented a car from Hertz around 1:30pm and had several large bags of luggage with them. I was surprised at how different Lori looks now from recent photos in the news. She had smudged black eyeliner, layers of face makeup and bags under her eyes. Her hair was snarled and it looked like she hadn't slept in a while. There was obvious tension between Chad and Lori, who didn't speak to each other either in line for the shuttle or on the way to the car rental."

Maybe Chad and Lori's Friday nite date was spent watching Dateline, Chad is now up-to-date on everything, the honeymoon's over and Chad is wondering if the real End Times is hearing his cell door slam shut. 

I also have to wonder if the police put some kind of tracker somewhere, like Chad's billfold or Lori's purse. Heh. 

The over/under on Chad cracking and spilling the beans?  I hope Chad hires a food taster. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Howl
Removed unnecessary italics

[hoipolloi]

They will be birddogged as long as they're anywhere in Hawaii. 

ETA: after looking at the photo taken at the car rental counter, have to say that Chad looks especially bad -- very down & out.

 Except for going to LDS services, they are are apparently spending their time only with each other. Can't imagine that's much fun and it's probably getting more unpleasant with every passing day.

Edited February 17, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

6 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

They will be birddogged as long as they're anywhere in Hawaii. 

I agree.  Lori could completely disguise herself (dye her hair, wear a hat and a muumuu), but Chad's too tall and distinctive looking.  No one is going to want to do a private rental and bring the unwanted attention and stakeouts that come with these two.  

[Howl]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

ETA: after looking at the photo taken at the car rental counter, have to say that Chad looks especially bad -- very down & out.

Yes, he looks exhausted, his clothes are sagging and he isn't shaving.  Not much fun being pariahs. I do think they watched Dateline! 

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Except for going to LDS services, they are are apparently spending their time only with each other. Can't imagine that's much fun and it's probably getting more unpleasant with every passing day.

They're together at last after (probably) exciting stolen moments as their affair unfolded and the excitement of finally being married and together.   Cue the Beach Boys: Wouldn't It Be Nice (If We Were Married).  Now, after projecting who they wanted their partner to be, they are finding out who that person really is.  

Chad had a great wife, devoted to her faith, who loved him and they (presumably) ticked all of the boxes for a very good Mormon life.  That's all gone now, all of it -- that bridge has been burned. 

Maybe he's realizing Lori isn't quite who he thought she was.  Maybe some delayed grieving is going on.  Maybe Chad is sh*tting bricks over their insane burn rate.  Maybe Chad's kids watched the Dateline episode and he's getting "WTAF, Dad? HOW COULD YOU?" texts.  Or Lori confessed to killing (or Alex killing) the kids.  Any or all of those things.  

One more thing: All Mormon young men are required to serve a two-year mission and Chad has a son who is a current Mormon missionary.  Doesn't the family pay for the living expenses for each young man serving a mission?  Tammy worked as a school librarian, presumably because they needed extra income. That's gone now, Chad and Lori are bulldozing piles of  money over a cliff, so maybe there's a financial squeeze. 

I'm guessing the whole shiteroo is unraveling, but who knows. 

Questions about the Hawaiian Honeymoon on Websleuths relative to the date of Tammy's death: 

• When did Lori order or buy her wedding dress? 
• When were plane reservations made?
• When was an arrangement made for the wedding photographer? 

If Lori did any of those things before Tammy died,  it will be part of a circumstantial homicide case.  And yes, Idaho is a death penalty state. 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

More local news coverage, confirming that FBI has them on their radar:

Quote

The FBI is closely tracking the case. Kauai police did their part to assist federal authorities. It’s unclear yet if Maui police are involved.

 

[Howl]

Lori and Chad (I think of them as LorCh; ChaLo sounds too hip for these two jabronis) are back in Kauai. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Lori and Chad (I think of them as LorCh; ChaLo sounds too hip for these two jabronis) are back in Kauai. 

Yep, but looks like local LE have their eye on them:

Quote

The couple boarded a plane at the Kahului Airport on Tuesday around 2 p.m. Hawaii time. Several passengers and airport employees tell EastIdahoNews.com they were quiet and kept to themselves. Sources say a police officer came to the gate to verify the Daybells were on the flight after they were observed checking in. [Emphasis added]

 

[Chickenbutt]

Lori Vallow/Daybell  arrested

"Lori Vallow has been charged on two counts of desertion and nonsupport of dependent children"

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lori-vallow-mother-two-missing-idaho-children-arrested-hawaii-n1140171

[Howl]

Whoa!  I go out to dinner and this  happens.  Good catch, @Chickenbutt! 

From the NBC article linked by @Chickenbutt in her post above

 <snip>  

Quote

Rexburg police said they have learned that Vallow either knows the location of Joshua and Tylee or knows what happened to them.

Shit's getting real.  FIVE MILLION DOLLAR BOND.   Erma Gerd. 

Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com:  Lori Vallow Daybell arrested, held on $5 million bond

<snip>

Quote

She has since been charged with two felony counts of desertion and nonsupport of dependent children. She was also charged with arrests and seizures – resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court – willful disobedience of court process or order.

Chad hasn't been arrested.   He'll spend tonight alone and sleepless, wondering WTF his life has come to and when the knock on the door will come for him. 

Lori isn't getting freshly made organic vegetable juice; it's a baloney sandwich on white bread for her dinner. 

She'll have a hearing at some point in the relatively near future; she'll have to decide whether to go to Idaho or stay in Hawaii and fight extradition.  She must realize that she's basically f**ked and even being a translated being won't help.  A wake-up call of sorts. 

So, will Chad hang tight or decamp back home? 

Is Lori a natural blond or will the roots be showing.  Stay tuned! 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

Looks like the ID authorities have put this time to good use, if these charges are any indication:

Quote

 

Vallow failed to comply with a court order to produce her two children — Tylee Ryan, 17, and Joshua “J.J.” Vallow, 7 — to authorities in Madison County on Jan. 30. Kauai police presented the court order to Vallow Jan. 25.

She has since been charged with two felony counts of desertion, nonsupport of dependent children, resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime and contempt of court.

 

The extradition hearing will probably be Friday. 

A $5 million bond is serious money. Does Chad have $500K in cash to bail her out? I somehow doubt that they could pay the full $5 million. 

ETA: More in this news story:

Quote

 Vallow is scheduled to be in court Friday. “She can, at that point, choose to be represented by counsel and either waive that extradition hearing or choose to proceed with the extradition hearing if she wants a hearing,” said Kauai Prosecutor Justin Kollar.

Edited February 21, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

A fully formed image of Nancy Grace ranting about this just popped into my head!  Missing children are involved and Chad and especially Lori are the kind of people that really piss her off.  I'll check into GMA; they've been following this. 

Sadly, I hold out no hope that the kids are still alive.  When Lori tried to sell JJ's beloved therapy dog and his indispensable I Pad was no longer in use, you can be sure he's no longer in this world.  Confirmed dead: Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow, Alex Cox and I'm adding Lori's other ex, Joe Ryan, because WTAF!!!

Many, many people on various forums discussing this believe that Lori has stashed the kids away somewhere ... with the Another Voice of Warning (AVOW) people or Preparing a People (PaP), the prepper groups that  Lori and Chad were involved with, "to keep them safe from the government."

However, neither of these groups, at least superficially, seem like anti-government groups or have Sovereign Citizen connections or leanings, but are really focused on preparing for the End Times.  One of the groups has denounced Chad, removed his content from their website and severed ties with him. 

I hope Lori's arrest beings some measure of comfort to both the Vallow and Ryan families.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

This EasternIdahoNews article lays out information shared by the police, and a tighter timeline for when the kids were last seen. These are the juicy tidbits that stood out for me. 

When police went to find Lori and do a safety check on the kids on Nov. 26, 2019, they first found Chad and Alex outside Lori's apartment.  Chad claimed he didn't know Lori very well and didn't know her phone number.  Alex claimed that JJ was with Kay Woodcock (JJ's grandmother) in Louisiana; this wasn't plausible because Kay Woodcock had initiated the welfare check. 

When police finally found Lori in her apartment, she claimed that JJ was with a friend, Melanie Gibb, in Arizona.  When Gilbert, AZ police were able to contact Melanie Gibb, she said that she had not seen JJ for several months. 

Quote

“On Dec. 6, 2019, RPD [Rexburg Police Dept] was contacted by (Gibb) and informed that both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow called Melanie on Nov. 26, 2019, at separate times and asked her to tell police that she had (JJ) even though (JJ) was not with her,” court documents read. “Melanie informed RPD that she declined Chad’s and Lori’s requests.”

Moving right along, 

Quote

Police obtained phone records that show Lori, [Alex] Cox and J.J. went to Yellowstone National Park on Sept. 8. Officers also received a photo of Tylee at the park entrance.

“This is the last time we can find any record of T.R. (Tylee Ryan) being with Lori Vallow. We have found no witnesses who can verify they have seen T.R. since Sept. 8, 2019,” documents say.

So, I'm a fan of C.J. Box, a western murder mystery writer.  One of his mysteries (Free Fire: A Joe Pickett Novel) takes place in Yellowstone Nat'l Park.  Two things I recall.  There is an odd area in Yellowstone on the Idaho border called the Zone of Death; it's a 50-square-mile patch with no legal jurisdiction of any kind.  None at all. Zip. Zero. Nada.  One could, technically, get away with murder there. However, it's roadless, so not very accessible.

Also, Yellowstone National Park is a huge caldera, filled with scalding acidic pools perfectly capable completely dissolving human (or any type of mammalian) remains in a relatively short period of time. 

And there's more:

Quote

 Investigators also spoke with Chad Daybell’s parents in Springville, Utah, and they told them Chad and Lori told them in November that Lori was an “empty-nester.” The sister of Tammy Daybell, Chad’s deceased wife, told officers that Chad told them Lori had no juvenile children.

And there's insurance money from Tammy, because of course there is!

Quote

In the probable cause, Ball says the Daybells have significant financial resources obtained by at least one life insurance policy on Chad Daybell’s dead wife Tammy Daybell. Ball writes at least $430,000 [was] obtained from the policy following her Oct. 19, 2019 death.

If ya wanna read the whole thing:   Court documents lay out timeline of investigation, detail last time Tylee and JJ were seen

Chad's looking less and less like a naive middle-aged schlub sucked in by a black widow and more like an active participant. 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

The extradition hearing is set for March 2 - happened at Lori's court appearance on Kauai today.

Also, some details from the 14-page affadavit filed by Idaho LE. This article has a link to a PDF of the affadavit.

Edited February 22, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

Ooooh, @hoipolloi, March 2 is certainly enough time to give Lori and Chad time to think. Lori will have time to think about how her status as a translated being didn't keep her out of jail, and Chad to reflect on his recent life choices. 

One thing that I'm curious about.  Chad and Lori had a wedding ceremony on the beach in Kauai, but it's never been confirmed if they are legally married.  News reports refer to her variously as Lori Vallow, Lori Vallow Daybell and Lori Daybell. 

I'll be surprised if Lori ever sees the outside of a jail cell or prison cell for the rest of her life -- except on the flight back to Idaho and the inside of a court room.  

[hoipolloi]

21 minutes ago, Howl said:

Chad and Lori had a wedding ceremony on the beach in Kauai, but it's never been confirmed if they are legally married.

You can certainly get married legally at a beach wedding in Hawaii but whether or not Chad & Lori were eligible to get a license AND followed all those steps are open questions.

More local news coverage here -- it includes 14-15 minutes of the hearing.

ETA: Above video has the complete hearing. In it, Lori's attorney says that she does NOT have a passport. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Howl]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

More local news coverage here -- it includes 14-15 minutes of the hearing.

Good find @hoipolloi! That was interesting viewing.  Chad needs to learn how to properly tie and wear a tie, though.  Judge didn't go for the $10,000 bail amount suggested by Lori's attorney.  Five million it is! 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Hubs was watching episodes of Hawaii Five-0 last night and one episode took place in a very nice hotel, with rooms not unlike some of the $500/night places where Lori and Chad stayed.  Lori's probably missing those nice comfy beds where the maid came by to plump up your pillow. 

So, one detail nibbling on the edge of my mind.  When police came to do the original welfare check at Lori's Rexburg aparment/townhome, Chad and Alex were outside and Chad claimed to not know Lori very well.  He was subsequently stopped by police when he tried to leave. From an article on CNN today: 

Quote

After the brother [Alex Cox] directed them to an apartment that appeared vacant, Daybell drove away but one of the detectives stopped him, the document states.

When asked about Joshua [JJ], Daybell said he had last seen him in Vallow's apartment in October and gave the detective [Lori's] number, the affidavit says.

Chad, along with Lori, called Melanie Gibb that day (or the day after) and asked her to lie about JJ's whereabouts...I suspect Chad not being arrested yet is strategic on the part of the police because he's deep into all of it, although how much Lori and Alex lied to him about various details is up for debate. 

After Tammy died and apparently when Chad was letting people know about Lori, Chad told his parents and Tammy's sister that Lori  was an "empty nester" and had no minor children, even though Chad had met JJ earlier. 

Police are onto these questions like (as my brother says)

• a duck on a june bug
• like white on rice
• like flies on sink 

and so forth.

Side note: I'm in the "Alex knew everything, was perpetrator of some or all of it and had to go" camp. 

Haven't heard anything about Chad having a lawyer yet, but he's def going to need a good one at some point.  Tick tock! 

Happy weekend, y'all! I slept great last night and today I'm going to enjoy the fruits of having made reasonably good life choices, resulting in zero need to hide dark secrets, with no risk of being jailed and therefore no need to retain an expensive criminal defense lawyer who bills in 15-minute increments, paid for with insurance blood money (procured via the murder of a remarkably decent woman, the late wife of the current husband), which was supposed to fund an endless Hawaiian vacation.  

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Happy weekend, y'all! I slept great last night and today I'm going to enjoy the fruits of having made reasonably good life choices, resulting in zero need to hide dark secrets, with no risk of being jailed and therefore no need to retain an expensive criminal defense lawyer who bills in 15-minute increments, paid for with insurance blood money (procured via the murder of a remarkably decent woman, the late wife of the current husband), which was supposed to fund an endless Hawaiian vacation.  

All this.

You do wonder if the enormity of what he's either done or knew about others doing is weighing on Chad at all. Look at his face after yesterday's hearing, as he walks out to the parking lot.

Lori is a different kettle of fish. Don't see much reflection or remorse on that face.

[Howl]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

You do wonder if the enormity of what he's either done or knew about others doing is weighing on Chad at all. Look at his face after yesterday's hearing, as he walks out to the parking lot.

Heh! In 24 hours his life has turned to sh*t.  I'd feel sorry for him if there was no trail of dead bodies, including his late wife, and two missing kids.  

He's a Mormon guy who has raised five adult kids. In his life, he's been part of a tightly knit community, surrounded by people who loved, accepted and respected him in his family, religious and work life.  Now he goes home to an empty apartment, nobody's calling with warm wishes and offers of support and the love of his life, who is probably a psychopath,  is locked up with no likelihood of getting out in the future because they don't have the financial means to post her 5 million dollar bail. 

He's fortunate in that Lori's in jail and brother Alex is dead, so there's nobody left to murder him. 

 

[Chickenbutt]

Does anyone think that Lori might go with a somewhat "Casey Anthony" defense? Stay with me here...lol.  

"I gave my children to XXX and now they have disappeared. I have been looking at all the places they loved and had a connection with (Hawaii). I've been looking for them myself this whole time. I've been acting normal because I have disassociated due to all the trauma in my life: 2 husbands dead, brother dead,  current husbands wife dead, BIL (?) shot at? I'm the victim. 

Cue the first day of the trial......my children were accidentally killed by XXXX, but I didn't do it. I was threatened and intimidated so I didn't tell. 

I can see this happening. After all, Casey Anthony got off. 

ETA: If Lori hires Jose Baez, I will lose my mind. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Chickenbutt
Because

[Exchange Atheist]

On 2/22/2020 at 1:19 AM, Howl said:

So, I'm a fan of C.J. Box, a western murder mystery writer.  One of his mysteries (Free Fire: A Joe Pickett Novel) takes place in Yellowstone Nat'l Park.  Two things I recall.  There is an odd area in Yellowstone on the Idaho border called the Zone of Death; it's a 50-square-mile patch with no legal jurisdiction of any kind.  None at all. Zip. Zero. Nada.  One could, technically, get away with murder there. However, it's roadless, so not very accessible.

Also, Yellowstone National Park is a huge caldera, filled with scalding acidic pools perfectly capable completely dissolving human (or any type of mammalian) remains in a relatively short period of time

This thought is honestly terrifying. Like, it’s fascinating from a murder mystery perspective, but I can’t help imagining Lori putting her children in the car and taking them on that final road trip... So horrible. I love Yellowstone and really don’t want the park to be connected to such things

48 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

Does anyone think that Lori might go with a somewhat "Casey Anthony" defense? Stay with me here...lol.  

"I gave my children to XXX and now they have disappeared. I have been looking at all the places they loved and had a connection with (Hawaii). I've been looking for them myself this whole time. I've been acting normal because I have disassociated due to all the trauma in my life: 2 husbands dead, brother dead,  current husbands wife dead, BIL (?) shot at? I'm the victim. 

Cue the first day of the trial......my children were accidentally killed by XXXX, but I didn't do it. I was threatened and intimidated so I didn't tell. 

I can see this happening. After all, Casey Anthony got off. 

ETA: If Lori hires Jose Baez, I will lose my mind. 

Sounds plausible tbh. If Lori was innocent, that would be a great defence (minus the blaming someone else as soon as trial starts, that’s an astonishingly bad strategy). And without the children’s testimony, it won’t be easy to prove Lori wrong. I just hope that if it does come down to some kind of murder trial, the state will use less controversial methods of proof than in the Casey Anthony case. 

Also, huge thanks to everyone who keeps updating this thread with the newest information! I really appreciate it. I tried to keep up with websleuths for a while but that’s just not possible for me. 

[Chickenbutt]

25 minutes ago, Exchange Atheist said:

Sounds plausible tbh. If Lori was innocent, that would be a great defence (minus the blaming someone else as soon as trial starts, that’s an astonishingly bad strategy).

Yep, I agree the strategy is bad, but the first thing Jose Baez said at trial, Caylee drowned in the pool and implied Grandpa George hid the facts (and maybe the body)  and covered it all up, yada, yada, yada. And it worked for them. Hopefully juries have gotten a bit more sophisticated due to the Casey Anthony trial. 

[Howl]

I watched A & E's  Marcia Clark investigates the First 48 featuring the Casey Anthony case.  Marcia Clark lays out an extremely compelling case that Casey Anthony did it and got away with it.  Of course, Marcia Clark is a retired prosecutor and that's what they do, but damn. 

You can stream that episode here. 

11 hours ago, Exchange Atheist said:

I tried to keep up with websleuths for a while but that’s just not possible for me. 

Yes, they are on Thread #19, cranking out from 50 to 70 pages of posts in less than a day since Lori's arrest, with rampant speculation and posts from people trying to get caught up, so no longer useful for the most part. 

I check in on LDS Freedom Forum because of the crazy but also some insights because there are primarily Mormon posters. 

THIS JUST IN!  I just went to check and discovered that Lori's niece Melani confessed to her new husband that she set up Alex Cox (Lori's now dead brother) to attempt to murder Brandon, her recently ex husband.  

 

[Howl]

I'll print out the highlighted text with the actual names in parentheses, because it's both bizarre and confusing.  This petition is likely related to child custody issues over Brandon and Melani's four children. 

Here's a primer on names and the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux: 

Lori's niece Melani  Boudreaux divorced her husband Brandon.  During the divorce or perhaps just after, Brandon Boudreaux was in his driveway on October 2, 2019, when an SUV drives up, someone fires a shot that narrowly misses Brandon and shatters the window of his car.  That car is confirmed by police to be registered to Charles Vallow, Lori's late husband who was murdered by Alex Cox, Lori's brother.  Brandon assumes that the shooter is Alex Cox. 

Brandon subsequently went into hiding with his four kids.  Melani married Ian Pawloski (who himself was recently divorced) in Vegas over Thanksgiving weekend. 

Alex Cox, Lori's brother, gets married that same weekend, takes the last name of his new wife, but is found dying by the new wife's son;  Alex is declared dead a short time later, on December 12, 2019. 

This petition claims that Melanie confessed to her new husband Ian, that she had conspired with her uncle, Alex Cox (Lori's brother) to set up a hit on Brandon.

Text of petition in the tweet above with actual names substituted. 

...Melani Boudreaux Pawloski's new husband, Ian Pawloski,  has even provided statements to law enforcement that Melani told him [Ian] shortly after their marriage that she [Melani] conspired with her uncle, Alex Cox, to kill Brandon Boudreaux.  Melani's new husband Ian has given up parenting time out of fear of what Melani may do or has done to his children. 

7. Melani is under investigation regarding the attempted murder of ex husband Brandon Boudreaux.  Melani's new husband Ian Pawloski has reported to law enforcement that Melani revealed to him [Ian] shortly after their marriage that she conspired with her uncle [Alex Cox] to kill Melani's ex husband Brandon Boudreaux.  Melani is also under investigation relating to the disappearance of her Aunt Lori's two missing children. 

I can't find this petition or other information about this on EasterIdahoNews.   If accurate, Ian Pawloski (Melani's new husband) has realized that he's in over his head with some truly scary people and is singing like a little canary to police.