No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[Dysfundamental]

Well, we know the children’s bodies aren’t likely to be in Hawaii; taking dead bodies on a plane would be way too risky. 

 

But that doesn’t narrow it down much. So sad.

[Glasgowghirl]

This story is so tragic, while I hope that a miracle has happened and Tylee managed to run and hide with her brother, I too believe that it's most likely that both of them are dead. From what Charles ex wife has said Lori definitely sounds like a nasty piece of work. 

[Howl]

An odd detail that's driving me crazy.  Charles Vallow was murdered by Lori's brother Alex Cox.  Although Alex had his own house in the area, he was spending the night at Lori's house because something something and Alex murdered Charles in the morning when Charles came by to pick up JJ. 

Even though he didn't live there, he had ready access to a loaded gun, which he used to murder Charles.  

Call me cynical, but I think Charles' murder was planned. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Howl

[justwatching]

An odd detail that's driving me crazy.  Charles Vallow was murdered by Lori's brother Alex Cox.  Although Alex had his own house in the area, he was spending the night at Lori's house because something something and Alex murdered Charles in the morning when Charles came by to pick up JJ. 
Even though he didn't live there, he had ready access to a loaded gun, which he used to murder Charles.  
Call me cynical, but I think Charles' murder was planned. 

Nothing cynical about it - I think it’s pretty obvious. And scary.

[Howl]

This is becoming progressively more depressing.  In my mind, all things point to JJ and Tylee being dead before the end of Sept. I don't believe they have been secreted away somewhere, being cared for by AVOW (Another Voice of Warning) or PAP (Preparing a People) folks, the End Times groups that Chad and Lori are involved with. 

Police are drilling down and questioning more people -- for example, folks at the school that JJ attended in AZ.  Lori told lies, and lots of them, about moving for a job, about moving to go to school, about moving to CA when she was moving to Idaho.  Lies to various people about how and when Charles died -- suicide in one instance, natural causes in another.  She refused to text with Charles' older sons from a previous marriage about how their father had died, after she had informed them by text that he was dead.  She told someone that Tylee had died years ago.  Chad told someone she had no minor children. 

Police also requested JJ's medical records in AZ, and then discovered that Tylee was also a patient of the doctor's office where JJ was a patient, so they received her medical records as well.  

I think where Lori will be tripped up eventually is fraudulently receiving state and/or federal funds for JJ, when JJ is nowhere to be found.  Lori has expensive tastes and a high burn rate, and doesn't seem particular how she gets her money. 

Also lots of speculation on whether Alex Cox had a life insurance policy and if Lori was a beneficiary (!).  

Where was I?  I actually come to post about Funeral Potatoes.  It came up on the WebSleuth thread (#13!).  Apparently Funeral Potatoes are a thing for many Mormon folks in the West and midwest and are served at the funeral luncheon, which may also be a Mormon thing. 

10 Funeral Potato Recipes to Die For from the LDSLiving.com  

This sounds a bit like Potatoes au Gratin, sort of.  With Funeral Potatoes, there's a LOT of sour cream and a cornflake topping, which involves butter.  The potatoes are diced and if  you don't have cornflakes, you can use Panko breadcrumbs or crushed Ritz crackers or whatever you have for the crunchy topping.   It all sounds like a comfort food, calorie dense bomb dish.  My arteries ache thinking about it. 

As one recipe notes, if you need to serve 50 people, just triple the recipe. 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Rumor is that Keith Morrison/Dateline is planning a TWO-HOUR special on the Daybell-Vallow case, set to air next week.  I don't know if that means this coming week or the following week.  He (Keith Morrison) was in Rexburg, ID in the last few days, meeting with Nate Eaton, the East Idaho News reporter who's been following the case, and (I'm assuming) police. 

Hope this national spotlight helps resolve what has happened to the kids. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Howl

[justwatching]

Rumor is that Keith Morrison/Dateline is planning a TWO-HOUR special on the Daybell-Vallow case, set to air next week.  I don't know if that means this coming week or the following week.  He (Keith Morrison) was in Rexburg, ID in the last few days, meeting with Nate Eaton, the East Idaho News reporter who's been following the case, and (I'm assuming) police. 
Hope this national spotlight helps resolve what has happened to the kids. 

*slight tangent* Keith Morrison is on my shortlist of fantasy bedtime story readers.

[hoipolloi]

Re: Funeral potatoes. Did not even know this was a thing. Now I know.

Re: Chad & Lori. It is disgusting to see them apparently living their best lives in a pricy condo on Kauai but I'm guessing (hoping?) that the ID courts & LE folks are busy building a solid case against them.

The good thing about Kauai being their chosen bolthole is that it's a small island, the KPD probably knows exactly where they are & what they're doing at any given time, and they aren't going anywhere else without everyone knowing about it.

[Howl]

6 hours ago, justwatching said:

*slight tangent* Keith Morrison is on my shortlist of fantasy bedtime story readers.

Nate Eaton, the reporter for East Idaho News, confirms that Keith Morrison is a truly nice, simpatico guy. 

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

but I'm guessing (hoping?) that the ID courts & LE folks are busy building a solid case against them.

Folks on Websleuth and elsewhere are speculating that the police have been building the case and consolidating information. 

The kids are still missing  and nobody knows the actual cause of death of Tammy Daybell or Alex Cox; autopsy results are still pending.  Alex Cox isn't around to question about the death of Charles Vallow. 

It has to be frustrating for police. 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Joe Ryan, Lori's 3rd husband and Tylee's bio dad, died alone in his home in 2018 and was not found for weeks. 

Joe Ryan's sister Annie Ryan (Tylee's aunt) has set up a web page with a time line not significantly different than the timeline on East Idaho News.  However, I found her version to be clear and concise and a bit easier to follow, so it's a useful primer.  Why did she set up another timeline?

Quote

Why?

Good question. I am a former reporter, and I’m really tired of watching Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell walk free while the rest of us agonize over where Tylee and JJ are. One of the toughest aspects to this case is the many moving pieces and twisted storylines. So I thought maybe if I could detangle it a bit, some brilliant reporter, real crime blogger, private investigator, or detective will find a clue that helps to crack this case.

Annie Ryan does mourn the Lori she knew as her vibrant and happy sister-in-law years ago.  Joe Ryan and Lori were married for three or four-ish years and divorced in 2004.  

One thing this timeline did clarify for me is that JJ and Tylee both did make the move to Idaho, JJ was enrolled in school there and was last seen on 9/23/2019.

Link: Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Howl

[Howl]

Well, it may be game over.  Tylee's cell phone was found with Lori's belongings, apparently recovered during the search warrants served on Lori and Chad in Hawaii.  The source is being reported as "close to the investigation." 

Also, someone on WebSleuth used YEET and jabroni in the same sentence in reference to Lori and Chad. 

 

[Howl]

Nate Eaton, the reporter for Eastern Idaho News, was on Dr. Oz today.  This story is getting a huge amount of national traction.  Lori and Chad are probably doing a lot of ordering in with Door Dash. 

Just hope that somebody remembers seeing Lori and Chad with the kids, creating a lead to finding where they might be found.  With Tylee's cell phone found in Lori's possession, sadly, I no longer believe the kids are alive and haven't been since just after they got to Idaho and Lori removed JJ from school soon after enrolling him. 

Some idle speculation on WebSleuths:  Lori's niece, Melanie Boudreau 2nd Husband, is working with LE.  Who knows. 

Tammy's autopsy results should be available "soon."

There was a link to photos of Chad and Lori's Hawaiian beach wedding up for a bit, but the wedding photographer deactivated the link; something about artistic copyright.  People over on the LDSFreedom Forum thread about Chad and Lori have noted that Lori does not wear Mormon garments, although Chad probably does. 

One WebSleuther watching video of Tammy Daybell's funeral thought she spotted Lori Vallow talking to Chad but this has not been confirmed.  If true,  it takes a lot of damn balls to show up at the funeral of your lover's wife and makes Tammy's death even more suspicious, if that's even possible. However, it's likely another woman, not Lori. 

[Howl]

Good Morning America showed photos of Chad and Lori's Hawaiian beach wedding.  Looking at Chad, you wouldn't imagine that he had buried his wife and the mother of his five children just two weeks before.  

Lori and Chad also attended services at an LDS church this past Sunday, because they are good Mormons. 

One of my favorite things about his entire cluster cluck is that it turns out that Lori is not the beneficiary of Chad Vallow's million dollar life insurance policy.  

Y'all, my take on this is that Lori is a black widow, family annihilating, psychopathic serial killer.  I just can't put it together in any other way.   For me for now, Chad is just another schlub tangled in her web of murder, lies and deceit.  I think Lori engineered the murder of Tammy Daybell, providing Chad with a poison or fatal overdose of something after an earlier hit failed. 

Remember that not two weeks before her death, a man with his face covered and carrying a "paint gun" rifle suddenly confronted Tammy by her car at her home. 

Tammy thought the man carried a paint gun, but who knows.  The guy ran off and  Tammy posted the incident to her fb page, but was sufficiently rattled to file a police report.  I think that an initial murder attempt that went awry. 

Tick tock. Tick tock. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Howl

[MadameOvary]

17 hours ago, Howl said:

Y'all, my take on this is that Lori is a black widow, family annihilating, psychopathic serial killer.  I just can't put it together in any other way.   For me for now, Chad is just another schlub tangled in her web of murder, lies and deceit.  I think Lori engineered the murder of Tammy Daybell, providing Chad with a poison or fatal overdose of something after an earlier hit failed. 

It certainly does all seem to center around Lori. Chad is besotted with her, perhaps manipulated or maybe simply too far gone in the doomsday cult. The children are dead, of that I am 99% certain.

I do wonder about the Alex character though. So many acts of violence, going back several years, but what was his motive? With Chad and Lori I can see some twisted logic in their actions, but how insane or stupid must a man be to go on attacking people on behalf of his sister for... what? a slice of life insurance money? Of course, in the end he became a liability too, and had to go.

[Howl]

3 hours ago, MadameOvary said:

I do wonder about the Alex character though. So many acts of violence, going back several years, but what was his motive? With Chad and Lori I can see some twisted logic in their actions, but how insane or stupid must a man be to go on attacking people on behalf of his sister for... what? a slice of life insurance money? Of course, in the end he became a liability too, and had to go.

Yes, I wonder about Alex also.  He attacked Lori's soon-to-be-ex-3rd-husband Joe Ryan on the courthouse steps in San Antonio years ago.  He ended up in jail for (IIRC) 90 days or so over that attack.  He murdered Lori's 4th husband.  He followed Lori around here and there. Something wasn't right with that man -- pathological sibling enmeshment? 

Apparently, Tammy Daybell's autopsy process could go on for up to a year.  They have no idea if a substance was used to murder Tammy Daybell or what that substance might be.  Key fluids that could have been tested were flushed out during the embalming process. Needle in a haystack trying to search for what might have been used. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Howl

[meep]

In recent news: 

• JJ's school just announced that Lori has been logging in to the parents portal app (or something of that nature) for the school many times after JJ was unenrolled, the last time being Feb 2nd.
• JJ's grandmother Kay is alleging that the last contact she had with Lori was 4 days after Charles' death when Lori learned that Kay was the beneficiary of Charles' million-dollar life insurance policy. The text Kay received from Lori read: "5 kids and no money and his sister gets everything."

This keeps looking worse and worse as time goes on. 

 

[Howl]

6 hours ago, meep said:

• The text Kay received from Lori read: "5 kids and no money and his sister gets everything."

This keeps looking worse and worse as time goes on. 

Not exactly a heartfelt condolence text to a murdered man's sister, is it? 

I think these are the five kids referenced in Lori's text to Kay:

Charles Vallow had two sons with his first wife; those sons are now adults in their 20s, but they stayed with Lori and Charles during summer vacations when they were teens. 

Lori has two bio kids:  Colby (in his early 20s) and  Tylee (17).  

Charles and Lori adopted JJ, who is Charles' grand nephew and Kay's grandson.  

I can only imagine how much epic shit hit the fan when Lori discovered she was not the beneficiary on Charles' insurance policy.  

 

[Howl]

Dateline is showing a two-hour special tomorrow (Friday) night from 8 - 10 pm Central time.   

This may be a "You can run but you can't hide" turning point in the case, or at least I hope so.  

[Ozlsn]

On 2/10/2020 at 11:22 PM, Howl said:

Joe Ryan, Lori's 3rd husband and Tylee's bio dad, died alone in his home in 2018 and was not found for weeks. 

Joe Ryan's sister Annie Ryan (Tylee's aunt) has set up a web page with a time line not significantly different than the timeline on East Idaho News.  However, I found her version to be clear and concise and a bit easier to follow, so it's a useful primer.  Why did she set up another timeline?

Annie Ryan does mourn the Lori she knew as her vibrant and happy sister-in-law years ago.  Joe Ryan and Lori were married for three or four-ish years and divorced in 2004.  

One thing this timeline did clarify for me is that JJ and Tylee both did make the move to Idaho, JJ was enrolled in school there and was last seen on 9/23/2019.

Link: Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow

I read all that timeline, and I just feel so sorry for the families who have been hurled into this maelstrom. It is just horrific.

[Howl]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I read all that timeline, and I just feel so sorry for the families who have been hurled into this maelstrom. It is just horrific.

Yes, and Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell especially seem to have been salt of the earth, decent people who cared deeply for their families and always  helped others. 

I can't see anything but the end of the line for Lori especially.  Her children are missing and she can't produce them.  By the end of Dateline tonight she and Chad will be be universally recognized pariahs.  Maybe they aren't worried because Lori considers herself a "translated being" and they think the End Times are set for July 2020. 

Translated being has a specific meaning in Mormon theology.  Here are various snippets from the interwebs describing translated beings.  If you're inclined to learn more, just google "Mormonism + translated being"  

Mormonism is patriarchal; women are definitely on a lower rung than men.  I find it fascinating that all text describing translated beings carefully avoids any reference to gender. 

Quote

Latter-day Saint scriptures speak of a unique class of beings, persons whom the Lord has "translated" or changed from a mortal state to one in which they are temporarily not subject to death, and in which they experience neither pain nor sorrow except for the sins of the world. Such beings appear to have much greater power than mortals.

and this

Quote

In the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), translation refers to being physically changed by God from a mortal human being to an immortal human being. A person that has been translated is referred to as a translated being.

and this

Quote

Translated beings are faithful servants of the Lord in the flesh who have been translated in order to continue serving in a protected, restful state until they are resurrected. Translated beings never taste of death; they never endure the pains of death; they have undergone a change in their bodies, "that they might not suffer pain nor sorrow save it were for the sins of the world"

and 

Quote

Translated Beings: Persons who are changed so that they do not experience pain or death until their resurrection to immortality.

My understanding is that translated beings are in this state to carry out a ministry unique to each one.  It has a bit of a bodhisattva vibe, but, you know, different! 

Some people who have listened to Chad's talks/podcasts get a sense that he thinks of himself as knowing more than or being above Mormon hierarchy.  At the same time, he had an active role in his ward up to the time he decamped to Hawaii to marry Lori on the beach.  Contrary to rumors, it isn't thought that he's been excommunicated from the church.  

[hoipolloi]

According to a comment on an article in the local paper, they've been attending LDS services while on Kauai. 

As I said earlier, I doubt they can go anywhere or do anything on that island without someone knowing about it.

Until the ID courts & LE get things together & charge her, that's probably as much as can be hoped for.

[Howl]

We DVR'd the Dateline special and I watched it last night.  They did a good job, but I think they should have emphasized (by repeating every five minutes) that Chad and Lori were married two weeks and a day after Chad's wife of 30-years died mysteriously. 

Chad and Lori have decamped from a $6,000+/month condo are now staying in a nice hotel.  I'm guessing Lori and Chad got the boot from the condo community.  Bad press coverage of notorious people is never good for property values and doesn't go over well with people that value their privacy. They still have "no comment." A some point very recently, they bought plane tickets to Mexico, but are still, as far as anyone knows, in Hawaii.

What else?  There was police footage of the inside of the house where Charles Vallow was murdered by Alex Cox.  Oddly, there was no furniture or anything else in the living room of the house or visible in any of the video.  Nothing.  It was empty -- totally bare.   You'd think there would be some clutter...something.  And contrary to what many speculated on WebSleuth, the police thought everything about the situation was hinky. 

Stories didn't match up:  Alex Cox's tiny scalp laceration didn't match a description of him being attacked by Charles (super fit and played baseball on a college team) with a baseball bat, Lori appeared to care less that her husband had just been murdered by her brother and kinda laughed it off,  the Lori/Tylee account of where they were when the murder transpired did not match up to Alex's account.  Charles' ex-wife said he was a patient gentle man who, never ever lost it or became violent. Apparently the account that Lori had  a loud pool party that afternoon with lots of splashing, shouting and music  is accurate. 

Another item related to the attempted murder of Lori's niece's recently ex-husband Brandon that caught my attention.  In November (?) a bullet missed Brandon by a few inches as he was getting out of his car; it shattered the window. Brandon thought (confirmed?) that the shooter was Alex Cox, Lori's brother.  Brandon at first thought it was a paintball gun, but realized quickly that it was actually a firearm with a silencer. 

Ten days before she died "in her sleep," as Tammy Daybell was in her driveway getting things out of the backseat of her car, a man wearing a ski mask appeared "with a paintball gun" and fired several times.  The gun supposedly "misfired."  No report clarifies what misfied means and whether anything came out of the end of the gun/paintball gun. 

I'm gonna go WebSleuth-er on y'all -- I now think the masked man was Alex Cox, the "paintball gun" was a firearm with a silencer and Alex Cox lost his nerve, fired some shots,  but couldn't shoot a stranger (and a woman) at close range.  The police didn't find anything (no bullets or presumably, shell casings), but I think they need to return as the snow melts and look some more. 

There was quite a bit of footage of the storage unit that Lori rented in Rexburg. She was there (I think) one time.  Grainy security footage shows at least two different men (one seems to be Chad), coming and going numerous times, carrying very heavy totes (plastic boxes).  It's a tiny unit, maybe 4' x 8', and was abandoned (non payment) with JJ and Tylee's bicycles, a few toys and a sweet photo album with all of JJ's baby photos and other pics as he got older. 

 

[Howl]

Brandon Budreau (Lori's niece's ex husband) said the attempted hit on him was done with a firearm with a silencer. 

I noted above that I thought Tammy Daybell was shot at with a fire arm with a silencer.   Quoting from a timeline posted by a Websleuther: 

Quote

REXBURG — Ten days before Tammy Daybell died, a masked man approached and shot at her several times with a paintball gun. She filed a report with the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office and a deputy investigated the claim.

This is the verbatim account of the encounter with the masked, armed man (likely Alex Cox) that Tammy posted to her facebook page: 

Quote

Something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so you can watch out. I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway. As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun. He shot at me several times, although I don’t think it was loaded. I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house.

She must have heard something (silencer?) that made her think the person was "shooting at her."  

Anyway, all the deaths of decent people and likely the children just makes me think these folks need to be in jail now.  Note: I don't put Alex Cox in the decent person category. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Howl

[AmazonGrace]

It feels like if they didn't know where the children are they'd be searching for them.

Not likely to find them in Hawaii.

[hoipolloi]

And they've gone to Maui:

See? They could not leave without it being noticed. It's only a matter of time till we know where they hole up on Maui.