Michaela & Brandon Keilen 5: She Goes By Michaela

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, SassyPants said:

And that would be an appropriate comment coming from M, but the comparison being made here is not about how M. feels about herself, so it is nothing but an unnecessary judgment. Like others have said, M’s size likely has nothing to do with her infertility.

Oh totally agree - it was just an aside regarding how super tiny sisters can skew perception.   Just an offhand comment about myself.

I think weight related fertility issues are a moot point for someone like her with a very normal, healthy build.  

 

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Oh totally agree - it was just an aside regarding how super tiny sisters can skew perception.   Just an offhand comment about myself.

I think weight related fertility issues are a moot point for someone like her with a very normal, healthy build.  

 

This reminds me of my own mom. She is 5-9 and weighs maybe 125. She has always loathed being bigger. She wears size 10.5 shoes and her wedding ring fits on my thumb. So, she has always controlled her weight, because she can not control her height. She has also mentioned to me numerous times that she is happy that I am small. Heck, I weigh more than she does and at 5-4 am very average sized.

[lizzybee]

I've been overweight all my life and when I could not get pregnant, of course that was the first thing my doctor clung to - nothing else. "Lose weight or if you ever get pregnant you'll have gestational diabetes and have to do insulin shots." She also just assumed I had PCOS and put me on medication for it. Turns out I don't have PCOS. I have hypothyroidism and that was why I couldn't seem to get pregnant. I lost 100lbs and didn't get pregnant. I needed my thyroid levels corrected. I'm now on my third healthy pregnancy and I've never had gestational diabetes. I have fantastic blood sugar levels...so eff that woman, I'll never forget how she made me feel or how she failed to diagnose what was actually wrong because she couldn't see beyond my weight. 

I can't help but wonder with M if there's something keeping her from getting pregnant they don't know about or if she just has completely unexplained infertility. I tend to agree that if there was anything to be tried in her power (diet, exercise, cutting out certain foods or behaviors) she's probably done it. I know I did. The thing with M that bothers or worries me most is her mental health - I sincerely hope she isn't and her family isn't making her feel like there's some kind of secret sin or displeasure from God that's keeping her womb empty. Infertility is super painful enough without having a plethora of siblings popping out child after child all around you. I couldn't imagine enduring that. I really hope there's not any self flagellating going on to boot.

If anything, if this points her in the direction of questioning some of those previously intransient beliefs she's had drilled in her mind about God being so willing to punish and withhold from people if they're not doing something just so, maybe she will ultimately find that it doesn't quite add up. If her family's comments about her are to be believed then maybe she can be introspective enough to admit she's done nothing to "deserve" this situation and grow from there. 

[JustEnough]

2 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

I'm now on my third healthy pregnancy...

I'm not sure if this is new news or if I just haven't seen you post about it, but either way Congratulations! I hope the pregnancy is boring and smooth and that you and babe are well ❤️?

[lizzybee]

42 minutes ago, JustEnough said:

I'm not sure if this is new news or if I just haven't seen you post about it, but either way Congratulations! I hope the pregnancy is boring and smooth and that you and babe are well ❤️?

I haven't mentioned it because it hasn't been particularly relevant where I've chosen to weigh in until now, but thank you so much for the congratulations. ❤️

[LucilleJ]

Is there any proof saying it's Michaela the infertile one in this couple? Because unless Brandon has some hidden lovechild born out of wedlock, we don't know for sure.

I agree with everyone if it were in Michaela power to be pregnant she would have done anything possible.

I think it's more likely that Brandon is the one with issues (iirc Michaela had some searching done, was it also the case for Brandon?)

In there beliefs, what is worse: divorce or barren wife?

[Melissa1977]

9 minutes ago, LucilleJ said:

there any proof saying it's Michaela the infertile one in this couple? Because unless Brandon has some hidden lovechild born out of wedlock, we don't know for sure.

It's not unusual than both members of a couple have low fertility, which makes things difficult to arrange.

Michaela talked about her own issues (she got a procedure done), but nothing about Brandon.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's not unusual than both members of a couple have low fertility, which makes things difficult to arrange.

Michaela talked about her own issues (she got a procedure done), but nothing about Brandon.

I doubt she would ever mention Brandon being tested for anything due to the nature of the tests...finishing outside the holy chamber and all.

[FighterJet]

15 hours ago, lizzybee said:

I've been overweight all my life and when I could not get pregnant, of course that was the first thing my doctor clung to - nothing else. "Lose weight or if you ever get pregnant you'll have gestational diabetes and have to do insulin shots." She also just assumed I had PCOS and put me on medication for it. Turns out I don't have PCOS. I have hypothyroidism and that was why I couldn't seem to get pregnant. I lost 100lbs and didn't get pregnant. I needed my thyroid levels corrected. I'm now on my third healthy pregnancy and I've never had gestational diabetes. I have fantastic blood sugar levels...so eff that woman, I'll never forget how she made me feel or how she failed to diagnose what was actually wrong because she couldn't see beyond my weight. 

I can't help but wonder with M if there's something keeping her from getting pregnant they don't know about or if she just has completely unexplained infertility. I tend to agree that if there was anything to be tried in her power (diet, exercise, cutting out certain foods or behaviors) she's probably done it. I know I did. The thing with M that bothers or worries me most is her mental health - I sincerely hope she isn't and her family isn't making her feel like there's some kind of secret sin or displeasure from God that's keeping her womb empty. Infertility is super painful enough without having a plethora of siblings popping out child after child all around you. I couldn't imagine enduring that. I really hope there's not any self flagellating going on to boot.

If anything, if this points her in the direction of questioning some of those previously intransient beliefs she's had drilled in her mind about God being so willing to punish and withhold from people if they're not doing something just so, maybe she will ultimately find that it doesn't quite add up. If her family's comments about her are to be believed then maybe she can be introspective enough to admit she's done nothing to "deserve" this situation and grow from there. 

Yay for the health you've regained and congratulations!

About Michaela, it potentially gets even worse for her mentally if you consider the weird story behind her name, which has a "prophetic" flair to it. Her parents initially named her Michal, after a childless biblical character who was defiant of David. They then realized they didn't want a daughter named after that particular character, hence the strange switch to Michael. I hope no one brings this story up around her at this time.

We don't know anything about her healthcare plan, but I too have sometimes wondered if those who are in charge of medically following her haven't figured out something, even a "simple" thing like hypothyroidism. Maybe her fundie circles (and insurance) only approve a handful of doctors and professionals, none of whom have the mental elasticity (if they're specialists) or experience or whatnot to "connect the dots". Considering the realm of diet, for instance: I remember her posting a gluten free recipe once on ig, maybe she's been told some generalities as to how to reduce a state of inflammation (if present), but without going into the specifics of it. What if a food intolerance is at fault? I had irregular periods before discovering about my allergies/sensitivities.

[lexiloumarie]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I doubt she would ever mention Brandon being tested for anything due to the nature of the tests...finishing outside the holy chamber and all.

Dr. Vick said he had been ruled out when they visited to do the one test to check her ovaries. They said he was fine and that  so far her tests were fine. No blockages were revealed if I remember right but they did say she hyper ovulates which can cause her issues conceiving. 

[Johannah]

I doubt she’s seen a reproductive endocrinologist, which is the type of specialist who is most suited to diagnose and treat fertility issues. 

[neuroticcat]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:06 PM, lexiloumarie said:

Dr. Vick said he had been ruled out when they visited to do the one test to check her ovaries. They said he was fine and that  so far her tests were fine. No blockages were revealed if I remember right but they did say she hyper ovulates which can cause her issues conceiving. 

Just reremembering how horrifying it is that these details are public. Reality TV is awful. 

[lexiloumarie]

17 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Just reremembering how horrifying it is that these details are public. Reality TV is awful. 

Right? It's why I remember - so much medical information for the public considering she's usually private.  Id rather it not be anyone's business at all. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

22 hours ago, Johannah said:

I doubt she’s seen a reproductive endocrinologist, which is the type of specialist who is most suited to diagnose and treat fertility issues. 

She told Erin in a scene at their apartment in Chicago that she was consulting a fertility specialist there.

[theotherelise]

I didn’t downvote because the poster called Michaela big. I downvoted because it’s so freaking tiring when you have infertility for people to say dismiss it with “I know so and so who did this simple thing and got pregnant soon after, have you tried it?”

I was about 10 pounds overweight according to BMI and lost it in months 9-13 when first trying to get pregnant. Didn’t do the trick. Trust me, fertility specialists do not beat around the bush and avoid mentioning lifestyle changes they think you should make. 

You shouldn’t say to someone with cancer “my aunt added x tea / y vitamin / z exercise and her tumor shrunk, why don’t you try that?” You also don’t need to (and it’s not welcome for you to) offer your anecdote about someone’s medical treatment.

Further, assuming weight is the problem puts the blame on the woman. It dismissed that this is a medical condition. It makes it seem as if she is responsible for curing herself. 

[nausicaa]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:39 PM, Johannah said:

I doubt she’s seen a reproductive endocrinologist, which is the type of specialist who is most suited to diagnose and treat fertility issues. 

Is that because of the cost or because it would conflict with their religious beliefs?

I know very little about fertility treatment options, and so don't really know where the line is for people like Michaela and Brandon. 

[Kelsey]

5 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I didn’t downvote because the poster called Michaela big. I downvoted because it’s so freaking tiring when you have infertility for people to say dismiss it with “I know so and so who did this simple thing and got pregnant soon after, have you tried it?”

I was about 10 pounds overweight according to BMI and lost it in months 9-13 when first trying to get pregnant. Didn’t do the trick. Trust me, fertility specialists do not beat around the bush and avoid mentioning lifestyle changes they think you should make. 

You shouldn’t say to someone with cancer “my aunt added x tea / y vitamin / z exercise and her tumor shrunk, why don’t you try that?” You also don’t need to (and it’s not welcome for you to) offer your anecdote about someone’s medical treatment.

Further, assuming weight is the problem puts the blame on the woman. It dismissed that this is a medical condition. It makes it seem as if she is responsible for curing herself. 

So much yes! I've lost my patience with people offering their simple "solutions" and just respond I wish i would have spoken to you before I spent 30k on IVF!  

I've gotten all sorts of suggestions- lose weight, relax, drink wine, go on vacation, adopt, buy a 2 door car, go gluten free, sugar free, card free, dairy free, shove herbs up my crotch, have an affair, and some more bullshit I can't even remember.

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, Kelsey said:

So much yes! I've lost my patience with people offering their simple "solutions" and just respond I wish i would have spoken to you before I spent 30k on IVF!  

I've gotten all sorts of suggestions- lose weight, relax, drink wine, go on vacation, adopt, buy a 2 door car, go gluten free, sugar free, card free, dairy free, shove herbs up my crotch, have an affair, and some more bullshit I can't even remember.

I had a hysterectomy because of cancer and other issues. I still get people who ask when am I going to have children and giving me fertility advice. I don't even have those parts any longer. That train left the station and it was empty. 

Michaela has to be in her own personal hell at times with a super-fertile mother and sisters. She seems to put on a good face and seems completely enamored with her nieces and nephews. I do worry about her mental state in her alone time or when faced with yet another announcement. While her siblings seem sensitive (at least on camera), there is no way that it doesn't sting. 

I feel for her and even the others with the constant barrage of questions and comments from "fans." When are you having a baby? Have you tried...? What about...? Alyssa gets hit with them pretty hard too. They even do it to each other to some extent. When Alyssa announced #3, some of the sisters even asked Michaela if it was her. It seemed a bit insensitive to ask that more than once. I know they were excited, but dang how many times did she have to say no.  

One would hope that her family members would recognize or at least acknowledge the pressure they put on themselves and others in their circle. It can't be easy for any of them with the overt pressure there is to procreate. Even Callie's birthday message this past year spoke to what a wonderful mother she would be someday. I wanted to slug Gil for saying that and it being the only real acknowledgement of her growing up. There are other things these girls should be able to do and be encouraged to do with their lives. 

Michaela going to school for nursing shouldn't be a consolation prize for infertility. I hope that the younger girls are able to see that it is an opportunity. 

[Johannah]

3 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Is that because of the cost or because it would conflict with their religious beliefs?

I know very little about fertility treatment options, and so don't really know where the line is for people like Michaela and Brandon. 

A lot of people just don’t know about them and there aren’t many in rural areas. Most people see an OB/GYN first, and they don’t always refer to REs. Michaela did say she was seeing a fertility specialist when she was living in Chicago. It’s possible that was an RE, but also possible it was an OB/GYN who claimed to specialize in fertility. I can’t imagine Michaela would be okay with doing any type of fertility treatment, barring treatment of an underlying condition. But who knows. Maybe they’ll surprise us. 

[ModestisHottest]

I feel like this might have gotten discussed many threads ago but I do wonder how they would feel about embryo adoption.  I have no idea if it's medically or religiously possible for them but it seems like it could be a great way for them to have children while also getting some pro-life street cred. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, ModestisHottest said:

I feel like this might have gotten discussed many threads ago but I do wonder how they would feel about embryo adoption.  I have no idea if it's medically or religiously possible for them but it seems like it could be a great way for them to have children while also getting some pro-life street cred. 

I have seen pro lifers do this. They adopt unwanted embryos in order to save lives. But it’s crazy expensive. So it’s pretty rare.

[ModestisHottest]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have seen pro lifers do this. They adopt unwanted embryos in order to save lives. But it’s crazy expensive. So it’s pretty rare.

Right, expense is a really good point.  That probably rules it out for 99% of fundies who might want to do it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:06 PM, lexiloumarie said:

Dr. Vick said he had been ruled out when they visited to do the one test to check her ovaries. They said he was fine and that  so far her tests were fine. No blockages were revealed if I remember right but they did say she hyper ovulates which can cause her issues conceiving. 

Hyper ovulation means you release more than one egg during ovulation. I would think that would make her more likely to conceive. Not less.

[Johannah]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have seen pro lifers do this. They adopt unwanted embryos in order to save lives. But it’s crazy expensive. So it’s pretty rare.

It’s actually less expensive than domestic adoption. The snowflakes embryo adoption program (run by nightlight, a Christian organization) charges $8000, plus home study (which is not required for an embryo adoption btw) and embryo transfer cost. But there are also websites where people post donated embryo availability, in which case the only cost to you would be the clinic fees for the transfer. 

Not that I wish she would do it, but I just get the sense that Michaela is so deep in the kool aid that she would never even stop to research or learn more about something like embryo adoption out of fear of even considering something that might be “sinful.” I think staying naive and uninformed is preferable to her. It’s the SOTDRT way. 

It appears to be consistent with their beliefs (anti-choice, etc), but maybe they’re against interfering with reproduction in any way? She may also be afraid to look into it bc it would require shedding light on the lack of logic or even biblical backing of the arbitrary and inconsistent “rules” that her family/cult follows. 

[neuroticcat]

I wonder too if even embryo adoption still has the weird Gothard taboo of generational sin. Pretty sure that’s why adoption in general is frowned upon by IBLP/ATI