Michaela & Brandon Keilen 5: She Goes By Michaela

[AussieKrissy]

I think if she doesn’t have kids, one day she may wake up and give up on god and realise she should have done it in her fertile years and used all those fertility treatments banned by her religion. (Presuming they can help her over gothard approved ones). I would not have my daughter if I was like her and no religion is worth giving up my chance to make Her. I hope that thought never crosses her mind. 

[Melissa1977]

10 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I think if she doesn’t have kids, one day she may wake up and give up on god and realise she should have done it in her fertile years and used all those fertility treatments banned by her religion. (Presuming they can help her over gothard approved ones). I would not have my daughter if I was like her and no religion is worth giving up my chance to make Her. I hope that thought never crosses her mind. 

How do you know? Michael has never been explicit on fertility questions. Maybe it's impossible for her to get pregnant, no matter the treatments. Maybe she is fine but is just having no luck. Maybe she and Brandon had decided to adopt in the future, or are finally content with their life without children. 

I agree that she looked desperate. But now she is focused in a fulfilling career. 

[theotherelise]

You still have to pay for a frozen embryo transfer with snowflake “adoption.” At my clinic that is 2500-3000. This is on top of the agency costs. And the chance it is a viable pregnancy is 40-50% for each transfer. 

[AussieKrissy]

7 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

How do you know? Michael has never been explicit on fertility questions. Maybe it's impossible for her to get pregnant, no matter the treatments. Maybe she is fine but is just having no luck. Maybe she and Brandon had decided to adopt in the future, or are finally content with their life without children. 

I agree that she looked desperate. But now she is focused in a fulfilling career. 

I am speculating and then putting my own presumptions in. ?

[QuiverFullofBooks]

My clinic said embryo adoption would be about $12,000. I think they could save/borrow/grift that. But it’s not for sure that the embryo will take, and some people really want a genetic child, and who knows what kind of IBLP crap is in their heads.

[OyToTheVey]

I think I'm just a natural skeptic, there's no way all those embryos up for adoption are actually legal. I just don't see many people actually being ok with signing legal rights away.

[Johannah]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

I think I'm just a natural skeptic, there's no way all those embryos up for adoption are actually legal. I just don't see many people actually being ok with signing legal rights away.

What do you mean by legal? There are actually thousands of frozen embryos that will never be used by the people who created them. Some of those people pay to keep them frozen, some destroy them, donate them to research, or donate them for use by other patients. “Adoption” is not a legal term associated with transfer of embryos. It is considered a tissue donation. No home study or background check  is required. Christian organizations just add those things on to their requirements to make it seem like embryos are people, and to make sure the embryos are going to Christian people? Idk. But there are also online boards where you can just privately arrange to donate your embryos to someone and all they have to pay is their own transfer fee. 

“Transferring donated embryos is less expensive than almost any alternative to natural pregnancy.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/health/embryo-adoption-donated-snowflake.amp.html

“National Embryo Donation Center, based in Knoxville, Tenn., is the largest embryo donation clinic in the country.”

Michaela certainly wouldn’t have to travel very far. 

[carmenp97]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:54 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Hyper ovulation means you release more than one egg during ovulation. I would think that would make her more likely to conceive. Not less.

Ironically, it actually usually means the opposite. Hyper ovulation (natural, outside of any ART) usually causes release of eggs that are under mature and therefore less apt to be fertilized and/or go through proper cell division and implantation. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, carmenp97 said:

Ironically, it actually usually means the opposite. Hyper ovulation (natural, outside of any ART) usually causes release of eggs that are under mature and therefore less apt to be fertilized and/or go through proper cell division and implantation. 

Would clomid help with that? 

[lizzybee]

There's a YT influencer that adopted embryos and has twin girls. They now have two bio children, the twins, and I believe now they have four adopted children. 

[carmenp97]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Would clomid help with that? 

That’s above my pay grade ?. My RE theorized immature eggs were part of our issue with my first husband (who had a serious sperm motility and quantity issue) but I had no trouble getting pregnant naturally with my second husband. Staying pregnant was the challenge and low progesterone was my OBs theory that was my actual issue.

Fertility issues frequently have many layers. You can fix one thing or a few things and still not get pregnant. 

[theotherelise]

Clomid or letrezole could maybe help produce matures eggs. I have PCOS, but still ovulate. I just ovulate really late and release immature eggs. Sometimes I still ovulated before maturity on clomid and once I didn't ovulate at all even with trigger, but usually I ovulated with a trigger shot after follicle size meant the egg might be mature. 

We don't really know what Michaela means when she says she hyperovulates, but I have long wondered if it meant she was not producing mature eggs.

If Michaela was open to ovulation stimulation and I suddenly had an RE specialization, I'd recommend some kind of lower dose FSH and then ganirelex to prevent ovulation before maturity and then an HCG trigger shot when the follicle(s) were ~20mm followed by timed intercourse or IUI if they were open to it. 

But again, one time she said she hyperovulated in response, I believe, to someone saying maybe she wasn't ovulating. 

IDK, I don't think they're pursuing any treatment right now. Massive speculation, but they seem to be accepting a different life plan than they'd expected based on the book and business and school. 

[Johannah]

I can’t imagine her going her whole life without having children. Didn’t she say when Erin visited her in Chicago that she was going to adopt babies?

But she’s also so compliant and kool-aid steeped, that I think if Brandon or her parents or anyone else she viewed as a religious leader told her not to adopt, she would listen to them. In some ways I think meek personalities are done the most disservice by these fundie cults. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

25 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I can’t imagine her going her whole life without having children. Didn’t she say when Erin visited her in Chicago that she was going to adopt babies?

But she’s also so compliant and kool-aid steeped, that I think if Brandon or her parents or anyone else she viewed as a religious leader told her not to adopt, she would listen to them. In some ways I think meek personalities are done the most disservice by these fundie cults. 

If she's that incapable of thinking for herself and will follow the teachings of the blindly all the reason she shouldn't have children.

 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, Johannah said:

I can’t imagine her going her whole life without having children. Didn’t she say when Erin visited her in Chicago that she was going to adopt babies?

But she’s also so compliant and kool-aid steeped, that I think if Brandon or her parents or anyone else she viewed as a religious leader told her not to adopt, she would listen to them. In some ways I think meek personalities are done the most disservice by these fundie cults. 

I think Brandon would be the most hesitant there. I'm someone who couldn't have children and adopted, but I did so knowing that I couldn't give birth. Michaela and Brandon would have to:

1. Accept that there was something wrong and it was not going to happen for them.

2. Come to terms with the idea that just because God said no to having children through birth, doesn't mean he has closed all other doors. 

3. Accept that others within the cult are going to judge and say things that are going to hurt. I think they said Brandon was still working with IBLP but remotely. Going against that group's group think would certainly have consequences financially, spiritually, and socially. 

That's what I assume would be her hardest challenge in terms of self esteem. In their belief system something like infertility isn't just simply a medical issue, it supposedly speaks to the relationship between the woman (and to a lesser extent the man) and God. To adopt, do IVF, get a surrogate, etc., are essentially interfering with God's plans. So I hope that she can break away from that sort of thought and understand that infertility isn't a sign from God that you have done bad things or that God is punishing you. Instead, it is a physical issue where there are options and opportunities to move on with life and build a family in another way. 

I adopted internationally because I am a single woman. There were a lot of hoops in my state for single adoptions other than children with needs I could not meet. Many of the people I met through the process are IBLP or similar. I did talk to a few, confused why they would adopt with the whole Gothard edict. They said they did international adoption as a way to bring Jesus to the heathens of other countries and in countries with high abortion rates. Additionally, all of them had children through birth first and were doing adoption as a part of their "ministry" and not as part of building a family.

[Melissa1977]

(Speculation) I have the feeling that Brandon is OK without children. But he loves Michaela and, seeing her depressed and desperate in Chicago, he thought college would keep her busy and fulfilled. 

I think Michaela want more open to adopt than Brandon and the college thing not only was a great way for her to have a career, but also for him to put off the adoption discussion.

[Johannah]

Does anyone know how old Brandon’s sister Angie is? Or anything about her new husband? I’m always fascinated by fundie women who marry “late”

[16strong]

It's most probable that Brandon and Michaela simply can't afford ivf, adoption, or embryo transfer. They have never come across as the griftiest couple, and probably wouldn't want to burden themselves upon others. Also, ivf is typically frowned upon in their circles, and that could make fundraising difficult, although I think humpers would gladly donate to the cause. Maybe Michaela's nursing aspirations are to help produce the $$$ required for ivf.

[llucie]

20 hours ago, Johannah said:

Does anyone know how old Brandon’s sister Angie is? Or anything about her new husband? I’m always fascinated by fundie women who marry “late”

The Keilens used to have a page on fundie wiki but it seems that it has been deleted recently, i wonder if they asked for the website to delete it themselves or it was decided by the mods there to give the more private families their privacy back. It does seem a good decision.

I found that it was mentioned here on freejinger that she was 45, jermajestyDuggar cited the now dead fundie wiki page on the family:

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by llucie
to add

[rebeccawriter01]

On 2/14/2020 at 12:35 AM, Johannah said:

Does anyone know how old Brandon’s sister Angie is? Or anything about her new husband? I’m always fascinated by fundie women who marry “late”

I don't know for sure, but Brandon is one of the younger of his siblings. His family members, including sisters, always have seemed much older in appearance. They have that more mature angle to their faces or something. I had that same thing growing up. If you look at baby pics or me or childhood pics, my face is the same then as it was at 30. 

[FluffySnowball]

Michael just posted on Instagram that she went (or is going through?) a difficult time. She framed it in a positive way and said that Erin’s music has helped her go through her emotional pain. Still, I can’t help but wonder what she’s referring to. Although no specific reason for her suffering was named, I assume Michael is heartbroken she can’t have children naturally (or so we assume).

Michael calls her feelings “deep pain” and honestly, that seems like a very - unusually, in fact - strong description for her. After all, wasn’t she always “trained” to have a joyful demeanor and to “grow where she’s planted”? 

Here’s an excerpt of her post from today: 

Edited April 22, 2020 by FluffySnowball
I added another thought

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

Michael calls her feelings “deep pain” and honestly, that seems like a very - unusually, in fact - strong description for her. After all, wasn’t she always “trained” to have a joyful demeanor and to “grow where she’s planted”? 

When she was lonely in that Chicago apartament, in a post she even implied having religious doubts, which she overcome with the help of Brandon. It sounded very emotional and sincere. 

Being ultrareligious does not equal not having doubts or suffering, and they are allowed to show that pain... But look at how she FINISH all her posts about suffering: God is the answer. Her stories are always the same: she gets desperate, a godly person prays with her, she gets content with her life.

So, she's exactly doing what she was trained to. She hides the pain under a thick blanket of prayers.

[HereticHick]

12 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

But look at how she FINISH all her posts about suffering: God is the answer. Her stories are always the same: she gets desperate, a godly person prays with her, she gets content with her life.

So, she's exactly doing what she was trained to. She hides the pain under a thick blanket of prayers.

I have no doubts that Michaela is a very religious person; lets not discount that prayer is extremely important--and extremely healing--for some people.

I think Michaela has struggled mightily with infertility, and she's probably questioned her whole purpose in life. And that questioning has probably been extremely painful as well.  

Even deciding to go to nursing school was probably painful in its own way, because its saying "I won't be getting pregnant any day now so I might as well go back to school" instead of "I'll keep on praying and one day God will give me a baby"

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:58 PM, Melissa1977 said:

When she was lonely in that Chicago apartament, in a post she even implied having religious doubts, which she overcome with the help of Brandon. It sounded very emotional and sincere. 

Being ultrareligious does not equal not having doubts or suffering, and they are allowed to show that pain... But look at how she FINISH all her posts about suffering: God is the answer. Her stories are always the same: she gets desperate, a godly person prays with her, she gets content with her life.

So, she's exactly doing what she was trained to. She hides the pain under a thick blanket of prayers.

I wouldn’t discount her healing coming through her faith just as I wouldn’t discount someone’s healing coming through counseling. I can relate. So much of the pain and trauma and anxiety from childhood abuse has been healed through my faith and through my exceptionally supportive and loving husband. It doesn’t mean she hides her pain under a blanket of prayers; it’s quite possible those prayers really do ease her pain. 

[just_ordinary]

@FluffySnowball I think we sometimes mix up key phrases between the groups. Keeping sweet for example is a Mormon based phrase and I think the idea that you (especially as a woman) always have to be happy and smiling is also more dominant in some Mormon cultures. That doesn’t mean we don’t find similar expectations with the Gotthard Fundies. The idea how wife’s and mother’s affect the status of the home and the family for example. But from how I understand it, our Gotthard Fundies are allowed to be struggling and unhappy as long as they pray hard until Jesus lifts their pain and God is the answer that made everything go away. I will admit though that depending on what I have read, this interpretation changed from time to time.

Edited April 26, 2020 by just_ordinary