Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix

[punkiepie]

I once had a boyfriend who had no trouble lying to me about anything.  While he was an excellent liar, he had one surefire tell; he became overly defensive if you accused him of lying when he was lying.  He would try and turn the table back on me and try to make me into the one doing something wrong.  Or he would be like, I'm so hurt you don't believe me.  But if he was telling the truth and accused of lying, he would just shrug and be like, whatever, don't believe me, I don't care. This is what Lisa reminds me of.  

I get the need to defend oneself, its natural to want to make others understand things the way you see them.  But there is a right way and a wrong way to do that.  Throwing her new step kids under the bus at every chance she gets- publicly, is not the right way.  I wouldn't care if it was true.  She should have said something like, "I made  mistakes, I take a lot of the blame for how things devolved the way they did."  Her need to elevate herself by debasing the adult Sproul kids shows her true character.  

[stylites]

22 hours ago, punkiepie said:

I once had a boyfriend who had no trouble lying to me about anything.  While he was an excellent liar, he had one surefire tell; he became overly defensive if you accused him of lying when he was lying. 

Had an ex who was similar, very sure liar but she'd get insanely angry if I - initially accidentally - started finding discrepancies with the story she had told.  I realised after a while that her anger was associated more with her indignation that I'd found out (which she considered to be some kind of breach of trust on my part).

[Howl]

I've been listening to Brené Brown on audio book and thinking about Rachel Held Evans and her untimely passing.  What stands out with these two women are their fundamental decency, vision, and incredible, unshakable integrity.  Although Rachel Held Evans is gone now, these qualities will live on through her books.  

Then I contrast them to Lisa nattering on about how she's been betrayed by her evil step kids and blathering about her God-breathed marriage and and Spanky sitting in his easy chair telling people how they can be tight and cool with God and Jesus, just like Spanky, although not as "precious" to God as Spanky himself.  

Spanks and The Lisa seem to believe that they are God's chosen couple, which is not surprising for two narcissists or whatever the heck they are. 

[Banyan]

Okay, I'm starting to get a much better handle of why RC Jr is such a mess. It starts with his hateful theology. Rather than holding to the Christian view that God is the loving, kind, benevolent diety of the bible, RC Jr's God is wrathful and delights in doling out his wrath. According to Sproul God delights in being wrathful so much that he created people just so he could judge them as sinful and then destroy them in eternal flames. But the way God created things everything was perfect in the garden of Eden including Adam and Eve. So God had to create sin. Otherwise man would have never fallen away from God and God couldn't pour out his wrath on them.

Quote

At 4:08 PM,  Bill Randell said...

...I can still remember what a huge swirl of controversy he caused over his book Almighty Over All. In it he said, "I am not accusing God of sinning; I am suggesting that He created sin." It's one thing to have Arminians calling R.C. Jr a heretic, but when his own Reformed brethren are calling him a heretic you know he's gone over the cliff. I viewed his book as heretical, and not just for that one thing he said. There's a lot of other heresies in it as well. If I were to go into more detail here it would make for a very long comment. So I won't. No need. Just check out the 1-star Amazon reviews of his book. Taking Calvinism Too Far: R.C. Sproul Jr.’s Evil-Creating Deity gives a good synopsis too and it resulted in 245 reader responses.

Lisa, do you know if R.C. Jr has repented of Almighty Over All? Does he still believe “God is as delighted with his wrath as he is with all of his attributes” so “What I’ll do is create something worthy of my wrath, something on which I can exhibit the glory of my wrath”? I have to ask because if he hasn't repented of Almighty Over All then I'm quite confident he'll have a rough row to hoe in an Anabaptist church, unless that is he can figure out a way of keeping it a secret from them. Anabaptists are very opposed to the view that God is a wrathful, vindictive God who "glories" in pouring out his wrath on humans that he created for the purpose of delighting in their destruction. For that matter I've never known a single Reformed person who would agree with R.C. Jr about that either.

 

[Howl]

RC's book is out and he's having a book signing at a local B & N on Saturday.  

Growing Up (With) R.C.: Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption, and the Holiness of God

As y'all may recall, the forward is by reprobate "pastor" Tullian Tchividjian.  

Description: 

Spoiler

When your father is a world renowned theologian, author of over 100 books, professor, pastor, radio teacher you grow up in a world where not only does the Word matter, but words. This touching account of a loving father/son relationship highlights those conversations along the way that left an impression, that shaped the author. Through "table talk"—ordinary back and forth in the context of every day life—R.C. Sproul poured forth extraordinary theological wisdom into a broken vessel living an ordinary life. You are invited to listen in on those conversations, and to benefit from the wisdom of a father who loved his son, and loves His Son.

Oddly, everything else on the LisaRC fb pages is "This content isn't available right now." 

And just so you know, the book was written by R. C. Sproul, Jr. (Ph.D., Whitefield Theological Seminary!)  who has been a pastor! professor! conference speaker! writer!  He and his wife Lisa have been blessed with 13 children!  

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

And just so you know, the book was written by R. C. Sproul, Jr. (Ph.D., Whitefield Theological Seminary!)  who has been a pastor! professor! conference speaker! writer!  He and his wife Lisa have been blessed with 13 children!  

Somehow, the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to my mind.

[AnnaSofia]

Quote

And just so you know, the book was written by R. C. Sproul, Jr. (Ph.D., Whitefield Theological Seminary!)  who has been a defrocked pastor! professor at daddy's unaccredited bible college! speaker at his own felony hearings! vanity press writer!  He and his wife Lisa have been blessed with 13 children, a few of whom still speak to them!  

Fixed.

[Palimpsest]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:04 PM, Banyan said:

In fact I did call CPS but they said they had no authority to investigate verbal abuse. In their world emotional scars mean nothing, only physical scars.

OK, just in case you or anyone needs to make a CPS report in the future, this is not true.  CPS do have the authority and the responsibility to investigate verbal and emotional abuse under Federal Law.  Federal Law trumps state law.

Federal Child Abuse Definition:

Quote

 

Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or

An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.

 

However, I don't doubt that you were misinformed when you called.  CPS is so overwhelmed and underfunded nationally.  They are probably screening out reports of emotionally abusive behavior because they are too busy with reports of horrendous physical harm and murder.  The physical abuse cases are easier to substantiate than emotional abuse. 

For the record, CPS are not supposed to screen reports out.  However, I'm sure they do screen because CPS literally doesn't have the staff to investigate all reports of child abuse.  If you ever need to report suspected Emotional Abuse again definitely quote Federal and State law at them if they try to dismiss it.  No guarantees that it will help, but they shouldn't misrepresent Federal or State Laws.

I'm so sorry for the loss of that boy to suicide.

But hot damn, people.  Haven't Lisa and Spanky been busy!

I just caught up on 8 or 9 pages of posts here.  It took me hours thanks to following all the links.  I need a short breather before I can comment on any of the shenanigans coherently.

[Banyan]

14 hours ago, Howl said:

Growing Up (With) R.C.: Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption, and the Holiness of God

As y'all may recall, the forward is by reprobate "pastor" Tullian Tchividjian.  

There's a very negative 1 star review posted there already. No doubt more will follow. But what few remaining fans he has, such as Lisa, will post 5 star reviews. So it'll all even out.

[Banyan]

14 hours ago, Howl said:

And just so you know, the book was written by R. C. Sproul, Jr. (Ph.D., Whitefield Theological Seminary!)  who has been a pastor! professor! conference speaker! writer!  He and his wife Lisa have been blessed with 13 children!  

Does he or Lisa claim he holds a PhD? I ask because he doesn't. He only ever went as far as a D.Min. which is pretty far removed academically from a PhD.   PhDs sometimes refer to the D.Min degree as "Dr. Lite."   I've heard PhDs snicker when they hear people address a D.Min as "Dr."  It's almost as silly as addressing a lawyer as "Dr." because they hold a JD, or addressing someone as "Dr." who was only ever awarded an honorary doctorate.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Banyan

[Palimpsest]

What a lot to catch up on.  I'm still really bothered about the accusations of serious abuse by the estranged family members and Lisa's daughter way back in March.  Especially as this sorry pair are hinting about adopting or fostering.  I suppose there aren't any recent updates on that. 

I can't get too hyped-up about Spanky changing churches, except for the hypocrisy.  So Spanky seems to have given up on Reform Prebyterian because they said his marriage to much-divorced Lisa was unBiblical, went to A Foursquare Church for a few months and is now at some other charismatic-type Pentecostal or Evangelical Church.  I think I have that right.

I find his path intriguing because it is similar to the one taken by the disgraced Tool.  Except in reverse order.  After BCA kicked him out DPIAT and family first joined that evangelical megachurch in Austin, and then started going to a Foursquare church in Durango.  Does Beall even mention church now.

Those Pentecostalists  must be very forgiving.   Especially as Doug seems to prefer the church of the Holy Burlesque and Precious seems to be worshiping at the church of Lisa. 

I bet Spanky is trying to find a church to wangle himself into and a new flock of sheep.  I hope they give him the boot.

So Precious wrote a new book.  How very precious of him.  I have dutifully marked the negative review as useful, thank you to whoever wrote it, and have no intention of buying it.

Sorry to bring this from pages back, but I'm intrigued:

On 3/26/2019 at 3:27 PM, hoipolloi said:

For those interested in this particular rabbit hole, there are still a couple of online sources, both of them run by or at least connected to Frank Vance, the pseudonym of the blogger who was sued.

There's the Ministry Watchman (with its infamous header said to be Jen Fishbourne, formerly Jen Epstein)*.  There is also Contending for the Truth, which is entirely about the Ligonier lawsuit. 

*There's a lot of other cray-cray at Ministry Watchman since they were one of the first to go after VF & DPIART. Also, though it's long since been purged of its content, a counter-website (called Mrs. Binoculars) was put up by none other than Matt Chancey and was part of the Ligonier lawsuit mix. This website was one of the first attempts to pull back the curtain on Jen's less-than-savory associations with the kinist crowd & similar fellow-travelers.

 

I knew there was something very fishy about Ministry Watchman.  I've warned people not to take anything there as gospel.  But I always thought it was run by Peter Kershaw, AKA TW Eston, Jen's rabid kinist colleague at JensGems in the Fall of DPIAT .  I thought I recognise some writing "tells" of TW Kershaw-Eston.  So is TW actually Frank Vance as well as Peter Kershaw. Or are Kershaw and Vance different people and just connected.   I remember reading Mrs. Binoculars long ago too.  Good times.

Spanky loving Lisa madly gave me an earworm.  It is annoying.

[DomWackTroll]

"Mommy's first day back to work," huh? Looks like someone needs to brush up on "The Tenets of Biblical Christianity"! 

 

[refugee]

On 5/7/2019 at 6:24 PM, Banyan said:

Okay, I'm starting to get a much better handle of why RC Jr is such a mess. It starts with his hateful theology. Rather than holding to the Christian view that God is the loving, kind, benevolent diety of the bible, RC Jr's God is wrathful and delights in doling out his wrath. According to Sproul God delights in being wrathful so much that he created people just so he could judge them as sinful and then destroy them in eternal flames. But the way God created things everything was perfect in the garden of Eden including Adam and Eve. So God had to create sin. Otherwise man would have never fallen away from God and God couldn't pour out his wrath on them.

 

Y'know, reading this and thinking it over, I almost feel sorry for the "kid." Almost. Okay, I don't feel sorry for him at all. But in truth, he's being consistent. This sounds to me like a logical extrapolation of his father's teachings on the holiness of God. Went to one of Sproul Sr.'s mega conferences on the topic. Sat through hours of teaching. Bought the book and read it. Listened to his radio program for years at the god-awful hour of 6 a.m. or something like that.

Sproul Sr. (and Jr.)'s teachings are sick.

[Banyan]

17 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

"Mommy's first day back to work," huh? Looks like someone needs to brush up on "The Tenets of Biblical Christianity"! 

I think that's actually "Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy." Sproul Jr and Doug Phillips were the co-authors.

Yeah, it's supposed to be Stay At Home Mothers (or grandmothers in this case) not Stay At Home Dads/Granddads. My oh my, how things have changed.

[Howl]

15 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

Fixed.

I like the way you edit! 

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I knew there was something very fishy about Ministry Watchman.  I've warned people not to take anything there as gospel.  But I always thought it was run by Peter Kershaw, AKA TW Eston, Jen's rabid kinist colleague at JensGems in the Fall of DPIAT .  I thought I recognise some writing "tells" of TW Kershaw-Eston.  So is TW actually Frank Vance as well as Peter Kershaw. Or are Kershaw and Vance different people and just connected. 

The kinist crowd at about that time also included Harry Seabrook (not sure if that was a pseudonym) and Chad Degenhart (his real name) who was a one-time member of James McDonald's former congregation in IL.

Seabrook had a really vile website called Little Geneva. The ADL describes him, his website, and kinism.

In any case, it's a small group of people and they all know each other. 

 

[Howl]

I find it intriguing that Jen Fishbourne was never out of the closet on kinist leanings/beliefs when she went on and on and on and onnnnnn with relentless blather about her mistreatment from the Doug and everything else. 

She's a flat earther, for heaven's sake, and hasn't hidden that on FB. 

[DomWackTroll]

4 hours ago, Banyan said:

I think that's actually "Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy." Sproul Jr and Doug Phillips were the co-authors.

Let's just say there wasn't enough coffee in the world for me today... 

In case anyone's wondering-- now that it's been taken down-- Lisa posted a few pics on FB of her and Spanky babysitting her grandchild because the child's mother is rebelliously refusing to be a keeper at home, against God's created order. Right, Spanx? 

[Jezzable]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:37 PM, hoipolloi said:

The kinist crowd at about that time also included Harry Seabrook (not sure if that was a pseudonym) and Chad Degenhart (his real name) who was a one-time member of James McDonald's former congregation in IL.

Seabrook had a really vile website called Little Geneva. The ADL describes him, his website, and kinism.

In any case, it's a small group of people and they all know each other. 

 

Harry Seabrook aka Peter Kershaw (real name)

[Palimpsest]

On 5/16/2019 at 6:37 PM, hoipolloi said:

The kinist crowd at about that time also included Harry Seabrook (not sure if that was a pseudonym) and Chad Degenhart (his real name) who was a one-time member of James McDonald's former congregation in IL.

Seabrook had a really vile website called Little Geneva. The ADL describes him, his website, and kinism.

In any case, it's a small group of people and they all know each other. 

 

Oh, crap, yes!  Seabrook and Little Geneva.  I read that too when I went down the rabbit hole. 

Many thanks for the ADI article.  I had not seen it before and it puts things in an understandable framework,  I'm still reading through it.  Tough stuff.

1 hour ago, Jezzable said:

Harry Seabrook aka Peter Kershaw (real name)

Yes, possibly.  IDK.  Do you have proof or just suspicions.   Peter Kershaw seems to be everywhere, or suspected to be everywhere, under different names. 

When you step into that midden you want it to be just one or two people spewing filth,  but I fear that there are more of them.

[Jezzable]

Quote

Yes, possibly.  IDK.  Do you have proof or just suspicions.   Peter Kershaw seems to be everywhere, or suspected to be everywhere, under different names. 

I have been told by a handful of reliable sources. 

[Palimpsest]

14 hours ago, Jezzable said:

I have been told by a handful of reliable sources. 

So we can be pretty sure that Peter Kershaw (real name) is also TW Eston of JensGems and Harry Seabrook of Little Geneva.

But Peter Kershaw is not also Frank Vance.

And we are very damn sure that Ministry Watchman is as fishy as hell and connected with Jen Fishburne, Peter Kershaw, and Frank Vance.  All of them nasty Kinists and untrustworthy as sources on anything.

[hoipolloi]

9 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

And we are very damn sure that Ministry Watchman is as fishy as hell and connected with Jen Fishburne, Peter Kershaw, and Frank Vance.  All of them nasty Kinists and untrustworthy as sources on anything.

As I said, it's a small group and they all know each other -- a veritable circle jerk.

ITA that they are vile human beings, every last one of them.

[older than allosaurs]

Most of Lisa's Facebook is friends only, but occasionally she lifts the veil to TMI.

RC-Lisa Sproul

May 18 at 12:22 PM ·

No woman has been more blessed than this one. To hold his heart, be washed by him through the Word, pray daily, hold his hand, feel his touch. To kiss his soft lips and look into those deep baby blues. I’m smitten. Forever devoted to all God has for us @rcsprouljr ❤️You are my ?

“Put me like a seal over your heart, Like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, Jealousy is as severe as Sheol; Its flashes are flashes of fire, The very flame of the Lord.
Song of Solomon 8:6 -???

..........................................................................................................

There's another recent post, which I'm not going to copy even though it's public because --- that poor kid -- she is pimping out some struggle her son is having to score maternal godliness points.

..........................................................................................................

Recently I screwed up and broke an agreement I had made with one of my grown children about how to handle a family situation. She was angry and I felt terrible. She stood her ground, explained her frustration, stuck to the issue at hand and made it clear what she wanted from me going forward, so I also felt really proud of her. And I will not be posting about this on Facebook, for heaven's sake, because that would be a lousy thing to do to her.

 

 

[Palimpsest]

Lisa and Spanky's public love notes to each other are enough to make a cat sick.  Pass me a bucket.

Time for a musical interlude, I think.  To the tune of "Truly Scrumptious" from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

Truly Precious

Dead beats sound like what they are
So do drunks driving in a car
Disgraced men have a disgraced sound, we've found

Ashley Madison and Defrocked Fart
Tell you what they are right from the start
And your name does the same for you

By coincidence, truly Precious
You're truly, truly Precious
Precious as a preacher with big feet of clay

When you're preaching it's so specious
Honest truly, you're the one that is so vicious
Truly Precious why are you so pernicious
Always, always, always, go away

Our hearts beat so unruly because we loathe you truly
Honest truly, we do

Truly Precious, you two are truly vicious
Vicious as a cat fight any day
When you're beguiling it's so suspicious
Not a smiling answer to our wishes

Truly Precious, you two are truly vicious
And we shan't forget this dreadful day
Our hearts beats so unruly, we really loathe you truly

Honest truly, we do 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Palimpsest