John David and Abbie 6: Flying Off to the Honeymoon

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I'm gonna say it - if these people aren't lying about the no kissing thing then I doubt they have the passion it takes for a happy marriage after the new relationship energy wears off.

I wouldn't marry a man who found me so very resistible.

The ones who courted as teens and being watched by JB/M could be that.  But two adults in their mid-late twenties who could hold hands and kiss and chose not to?  The attraction wouldn't be powerful enough me for me.  

 

[just_ordinary]

I think there is a huge possibility that we don’t see everything that happened during the wedding. Maybe they edited out a sermon or speech? Because I am sure those weddings include more weird fundie speak as they like us to notice.

Maybe @FrozenSmile can give a hint if the tv version shows the whole ceremony or if it just covers parts of it?

[Alice in Fundieland]

@Mama Mia I noticed the Josiah and Lauren thing too. She had the fundy stare happening and he looked like he wanted to look anywhere but at her. 

[Georgiana]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm gonna say it - if these people aren't lying about the no kissing thing then I doubt they have the passion it takes for a happy marriage after the new relationship energy wears off.

I wouldn't marry a man who found me so very resistible.

The ones who courted as teens and being watched by JB/M could be that.  But two adults in their mid-late twenties who could hold hands and kiss and chose not to?  The attraction wouldn't be powerful enough me for me.  

 

I think you have an incredible point, and I think this is what happened to Josh and Anna.  Anna looked great to Josh when she was a young, pretty woman  who was interested in him...and he couldn't have her (for purity reasons).  Lot's of people become infatuated with someone they can't have or have to work to have.  It's the denial or the thrill of the chase that can make it seem interesting and consuming, and it can be easy to mistake that for genuine attraction.

Then suddenly it's gone, and instead of this unattainable mystery maiden you have a wife you do everything with and know everything about. Will they still be attractive to you when they are just their ordinary selves?  I think a lot of fundie marriages suffer from the fact that they got caught up in the courtship excitement, mistook it for love or infatuation with the other person, and then find themselves married to a person they're actually not that excited about.  

I have a personal friend who is fundie Catholic, did the whole no-touch courtship, and I'm shocked they have a kid, because I think one of the reasons why they did a no-touch courtship so successfully for so long IS that they really do not have much sexual chemistry.  And the courtship made that seem like a GOOD thing, but now in the marriage...it isn't.  

17 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Um, this is NOT exclusively a fundy woman thing.  I cry at everything as well, I cry at fucking commercials. Those damn ASPCA where Sarah what's her face caterwauls In the Arms of the Angels, gets me right in the feels.

Hey, I cry at one of the holiday Friskies commercials, so I get it.  But I think many commercials are designed to tug at our heartstrings, so it's not terribly unnatural when they succeed.

But I did NOT cry when I met my brother's girlfriend.  That's a really strange response to meeting a new person, even if they are being introduced to you as likely your new in-law.  I could even see crying when you learn of the courtship or learn he's planning to propose if it's a big deal. But crying when you meet someone feels like she didn't know what else to do, so she just cried.  That's an OK thing to do sometimes in overwhelming situations, but meeting your brother's partner seems really off.  

[Cheetah]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

In all my years of being Catholic, and there are many, I have never encountered this hymn. Can you give me the music and lyrics, please? Bwahahahaha!!

Can't tell if you are joking.  Assuming not, it's an old Monty Python song...  

Spoiler

 

 

[eveandadam]

I don't know if that has been posted yet but "Anna Elizabeth" posted some smartphone clips from the wedding. She also posted clips of Jinger and Jeremy's wedding, as well as Joseph's or Josiah's wedding. here is one:

 

 

[Mama Mia]

26 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm gonna say it - if these people aren't lying about the no kissing thing then I doubt they have the passion it takes for a happy marriage after the new relationship energy wears off.

I wouldn't marry a man who found me so very resistible.

The ones who courted as teens and being watched by JB/M could be that.  But two adults in their mid-late twenties who could hold hands and kiss and chose not to?  The attraction wouldn't be powerful enough me for me.  

 

Meh....not my thing, but if you know you’ll shortly be able to do all the kissing etc you want - I don’t see how waiting to kiss would be that much different than waiting to have sex. And while I think I’ve only been to one virgin bride wedding, I hear they aren’t THAT uncommon. 

[singsingsing]

28 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm gonna say it - if these people aren't lying about the no kissing thing then I doubt they have the passion it takes for a happy marriage after the new relationship energy wears off.

I wouldn't marry a man who found me so very resistible.

The ones who courted as teens and being watched by JB/M could be that.  But two adults in their mid-late twenties who could hold hands and kiss and chose not to?  The attraction wouldn't be powerful enough me for me.  

 

If they didn't have these super strict courtship rules brainwashed into them from infancy and they had been courting for a year I would agree. But they're fundies who were together a grand total of six months (actually, I think it was even less) before they kissed for the first time, AND all of that was long distance. Maybe they're not that attracted to each other, I have no idea - but in my experience whether someone acts on attraction doesn't necessarily correlate to how much attraction exists.

Plus, I don't think their relationship was any different than their teenaged/early 20s siblings. They may be 5-8 years older than their younger siblings who courted, but I seriously doubt their levels of maturity or real life experience are all that much different. The relationship expectations would be exactly the same, and I would be very surprised if they spent much, if any, time alone together during the course of what I'm sure was an excruciatingly long and drawn-out five months leading up to marriage.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I watched the short TLC clips and I agree with those posters who found the "kissing act" dorky rather than cringeworthy. They do seem genuinely happy to start their married life together, and I found Jana's interview sort of sweet. It's clear she loves and cares for her brother very much.

Cringeworthy moments for me were:

• The drone - NOOOOPE!!!! So inappropriate for a wedding ceremony!!!
• The "I will be the leader" "I will be the follower" vows - yikes
• Jim Bob - no further words needed

Thank DoG they did not run down the aisle barefoot, but I did not expect them to TBH. 

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

52 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Hey, I cry at one of the holiday Friskies commercials, so I get it.  But I think many commercials are designed to tug at our heartstrings, so it's not terribly unnatural when they succeed.

But I did NOT cry when I met my brother's girlfriend.  That's a really strange response to meeting a new person, even if they are being introduced to you as likely your new in-law.  I could even see crying when you learn of the courtship or learn he's planning to propose if it's a big deal. But crying when you meet someone feels like she didn't know what else to do, so she just cried.  That's an OK thing to do sometimes in overwhelming situations, but meeting your brother's partner seems really off.  

Joy had just had a baby, and I think she and JD have a very close relationship, as the 1st Duggerling handed off to a sistermom and the youngest of Smugger's, you know, I think Joy has very parental view of Jill, Jana & JD. Remember she was kid #9 and she has twin brothers who are 14 months younger than she is AND a girl born in-between 8 boys, she is the ultimate of the lost girls.  

JD & Austin are good friends as well, and I do think it was something her sisters and she and Austin prayed for that JD would find a "Godly wife", so if he caught her off guard, and she was tired, I could see it. I tend to be overly emotional when I'm tired.

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

The wedding mini-episode is up: https://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/counting-on/full-episodes/john-david-abbies-wedding-part-1

 

The first kiss is....up there in the awkward category ?

Honestly, the whole thing was more awkward and uncomfortable than I was expecting. Can’t put my finger on it, just felt like the fundie weddings of old and not the new fancy TLC spin shows. Also, unless I’m mistaken Jill was wearing her MoH dress from Joy’s wedding and Lauren wore one of her bridesmaid’s dresses. 

What...wasn't Jill like 8 months PG when she was Joy's MoH?

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

I think there is a huge possibility that we don’t see everything that happened during the wedding. Maybe they edited out a sermon or speech? Because I am sure those weddings include more weird fundie speak as they like us to notice.

Maybe @FrozenSmile can give a hint if the tv version shows the whole ceremony or if it just covers parts of it?

Each clip was only 10 minutes, with one being all the preparations, so there’s definitely a lot more to the ceremony. I assume they’ll show more during the regular season wedding episode. 

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

Each clip was only 10 minutes, with one being all the preparations, so there’s definitely a lot more to the ceremony. I assume they’ll show more during the regular season wedding episode. 

Sure, but I always got the feeling that even the long wedding episodes are not featuring all that happens. Like a creepy sermon or similar.

[Mama Mia]

21 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Sure, but I always got the feeling that even the long wedding episodes are not featuring all that happens. Like a creepy sermon or similar.

Could be. Although TLC seems to like to play up anything “different” about the people on their shows.  Although I guess that was more on 19 kids, especially the first specials. 

[FrozenSmile]

Just watched the two ten-minute episodes. They definitely edited down parts of the wedding. Her dad gave a quick speech (maybe two or three minutes) before he handed her over to JD. They didn’t show the ring pop part, and they cut out some of her vows (and maybe some of his, too). I also noticed they did a really good job of editing - you’d never know Josh was in the wedding party, because they never showed him. 

[BlondeIdol]

First off, why did Josiah and Lauren sing a song? Is Lauren supposed to be a singer? Seems random to me. 

I think every couple seems different at first but Abbie is from the same kind of family Kendra and Lauren are from. I thought the wedding was genuinely sweet and very fundie complete with father of the bride doing something during the ceremony. Does anyone else think that Abbie's dad looks like Mitch McConnell? 

 

[melon]

4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Um, this is NOT exclusively a fundy woman thing.  I cry at everything as well, I cry at fucking commercials. Those damn ASPCA where Sarah what's her face caterwauls In the Arms of the Angels, gets me right in the feels.

Sarah McLachan.I do the same cry at commercials,and just about everything else.

Sarah McMcLachlan???

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

47 minutes ago, BlondeIdol said:

First off, why did Josiah and Lauren sing a song? Is Lauren supposed to be a singer? Seems random to me. 

I think every couple seems different at first but Abbie is from the same kind of family Kendra and Lauren are from. I thought the wedding was genuinely sweet and very fundie complete with father of the bride doing something during the ceremony. Does anyone else think that Abbie's dad looks like Mitch McConnell? 

 

I think he looks like a cross between Mitch McConnell and Jeff Sessions. Plus he and his wife look like brother and sister. But that’s common in fundie land.

[fluffernutter]

I thought Lauren sounded fine, but Josiah looked miserable. Kind of like when you sing a song in church and you have no idea what the words or tune are so you just sort of mumble along. I think John and Abbie were sweet, the whole kiss thing is still cringe-worthy no matter which couple it is. Too much damn emphasis. And I still don't know how it is safe to drive a plane around with that stuff hanging on the back of it. Her dress was pretty- we are going dress shopping this weekend for my daughter's dress. It's funny to be planning a wedding and watch a duggar wedding. 

[VelociRapture]

4 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I think you have an incredible point, and I think this is what happened to Josh and Anna.  Anna looked great to Josh when she was a young, pretty woman  who was interested in him...and he couldn't have her (for purity reasons).  Lot's of people become infatuated with someone they can't have or have to work to have.  It's the denial or the thrill of the chase that can make it seem interesting and consuming, and it can be easy to mistake that for genuine attraction.

Then suddenly it's gone, and instead of this unattainable mystery maiden you have a wife you do everything with and know everything about. Will they still be attractive to you when they are just their ordinary selves?  I think a lot of fundie marriages suffer from the fact that they got caught up in the courtship excitement, mistook it for love or infatuation with the other person, and then find themselves married to a person they're actually not that excited about.  

I have a personal friend who is fundie Catholic, did the whole no-touch courtship, and I'm shocked they have a kid, because I think one of the reasons why they did a no-touch courtship so successfully for so long IS that they really do not have much sexual chemistry.  And the courtship made that seem like a GOOD thing, but now in the marriage...it isn't.  

Hey, I cry at one of the holiday Friskies commercials, so I get it.  But I think many commercials are designed to tug at our heartstrings, so it's not terribly unnatural when they succeed.

But I did NOT cry when I met my brother's girlfriend.  That's a really strange response to meeting a new person, even if they are being introduced to you as likely your new in-law.  I could even see crying when you learn of the courtship or learn he's planning to propose if it's a big deal. But crying when you meet someone feels like she didn't know what else to do, so she just cried.  That's an OK thing to do sometimes in overwhelming situations, but meeting your brother's partner seems really off.  

In Joy’s defense, Gideon was likely less than or right around 3 months old at that point. She probably still wasn’t getting a lot of sleep at that point and lack of sleep can definitely have an impact on your emotions, especially when you combine them with postpartum hormones and recovering from (what appears to be) a difficult birth. I know it took a good deal of time for my hormones to calm the fuck down after I gave birth. 

[twoandthrough]

On 11/17/2018 at 5:22 PM, SapphireSlytherin said:

I almost did. Came VERY close. Zoomie and everything.

Dodged that bullet! lol

I didn't dodge it -  married a zoomie days after he graduated who is now a fighter pilot. Ahhhhh. It's an interesting (for lack of a better word) life, that's for sure. Has lots of pros AND cons. 

[Fun Undies]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:12 PM, singsingsing said:

 Maybe they're not that attracted to each other, I have no idea - but in my experience whether someone acts on attraction doesn't necessarily correlate to how much attraction exists. 

^ this.  My husband is super uncomfortable in public (a la Mr. Darcy-type).  Some social anxiety, and general introvert to boot.  He will literally walk away if he thinks he's drawing attention to himself.  So he's also anti-PDA in public (not for anyone else, just himself).  Ironically his love language is Touch, so at home, he's very affectionate and touchy feely.  BUT with strangers, I have actually had more than one person be surprised to learn we are married!  

So anyways, just wanted to add another level to the above comment - that even though he's perceived as non affectionate by people who don't know him, and doesn't act affectionate in public, in private he's a teddy bear   

On 11/20/2018 at 3:53 PM, BlondeIdol said:

First off, why did Josiah and Lauren sing a song? Is Lauren supposed to be a singer? Seems random to me. 

 

On 11/20/2018 at 5:08 PM, fluffernutter said:

I thought Lauren sounded fine, but Josiah looked miserable. Kind of like when you sing a song in church and you have no idea what the words or tune are so you just sort of mumble along.

I actually thought Lauren sounded very nice, I was pleasantly surprised

But yeah, poor Josiah looked like a deer in headlights - I felt like there was at least once where Lauren glanced his way, "Like is your microphone not working or something, back me up at least *wink*"  If he didn't have such a performer kind of spirit, I would have thought he got stage fright or something - but I guess getting choked up last minute can happen to all of us!

[Georgiana]

32 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

In Joy’s defense, Gideon was likely less than or right around 3 months old at that point. She probably still wasn’t getting a lot of sleep at that point and lack of sleep can definitely have an impact on your emotions, especially when you combine them with postpartum hormones and recovering from (what appears to be) a difficult birth. I know it took a good deal of time for my hormones to calm the fuck down after I gave birth. 

I hear you.  I just wonder sometimes with SO many fundie women bursting into tears at the slightest text message (ok, that one may be just JRod), if there isn't something else going on.  I wonder if maybe the root of the issue is that crying, a "sweet" and "womanly" response, is the only response that is encouraged or accepted...if these women are never taught other ways of expressing or handling their emotions, even positive ones, and so unless a person is like say Jessa and just personally not inclined to tears, that becomes their default and perhaps only emotional outlet.  

Joy probably wouldn't have been encouraged to shout, to jump up and down, to run to Abbie and give her a huge welcome, or any other way that might be more typical of that situation.  The only acceptable way these women have really to show strong emotion is to cry.  Strong, diverse emotional expressions are a bit of a male prerogative in the fundie world, though even they are limited.  

And on a personal level, that happens to grate on my nerves because that's one of my pet peeves.  But you (all, as other posters have mentioned this too) are probably correct: one way or another, Joy probably didn't make a choice to cry.  It's just what happened.  

[Carm_88]

I sobbed watching that Walmart teddy bear commercial about a week ago. The week before my period, and the drop of the hat could make me bawl. That came on and I was ugly crying while eating a Mars Bar.

[JermajestyDuggar]

My husband and I are very anti-PDA as well. So the fundie first kisses being seen by millions squicks me out to no end. I was embarrassed to kiss my husband in front of everyone at my small wedding and we had kissed a million times!