Josiah and Lauren Part 8: One Week to the Wedding (Now Married)

[prayawaythefundie]

2 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Heck, why not? Why not extend the rule to “let’s not speculate on anyone’s sexuality.”

Because there is such a thing as free speech and it is generally valued on FJ. It is therefore only limited in very few and very specific situations. I think it‘s a necessary limitation to not speculate on someone still living with their parents (especially minors) just as it is necessary to prohibit hate speech because both carry a danger to the individual. Asking a question once someone is free to leave that fundy environment does not, IMO. They may still receive money from their parents but that is their choice now. They could just get a real job and move now. 

That fact that some members just feel uncomfortable about a question should not make it against the rules to ask it.

Btw, why is it such a problem for some FJers to talk about a person being attracted to the same sex? People talk about being attracted to specific hair colors / eye colors / sizes and body types all the time. I get that it‘s a problem for the fundies because they are homophobes. It should not be a problem on FJ. 

[Iamtheway]

4 hours ago, TheOneAndOnly said:

It is not just you. Not at all.   It's one of the things that's always made me worry for him.

I really hope for both his and especially Laurens sake that she is not his beard.

I also find the speculation very stereotypical. Josiah is a little bit different to his brothers. That doesn’t mean he’s probably gay. It doesn’t mean he’s not either. But really the only way to tell if someone is gay is if they tell you they are. You might also assume they are if they are in a relationship with someone of the same sex. Josiah is not and he belongs to a group where it would be really bad for him to be gay. The speculation is just hurtful.

[SapphireSlytherin]

6 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

And I don’t see how flipping the marriage switch makes it ok.

Flipping the marriage switch makes sexy times OK. Flipping the marriage switch makes kissing OK. Flipping the marriage switch makes being unchaperoned OK.

Similar to turning 18 makes voting OK. Turning 21 makes drinking OK, even though it wasn't the day before. 

Things are off-limits, until they're not.

[Chewing Gum]

6 hours ago, KeshetParparNesicha said:

I saw a Reddit comment "Josiah looks great with a beard" and couldn't tell what they meant...

As a foreigner, van someone explain what this saying means? I have a clue about the direction but I never heard this one before. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Beard is a term for a woman (girlfriend/spouse) who is used to hide the fact that someone is gay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)

 

 

[Glasgowghirl]

2 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I really hope for both his and especially Laurens sake that she is not his beard.

I also find the speculation very stereotypical. Josiah is a little bit different to his brothers. That doesn’t mean he’s probably gay. It doesn’t mean he’s not either. But really the only way to tell if someone is gay is if they tell you they are. You might also assume they are if they are in a relationship with someone of the same sex. Josiah is not and he belongs to a group where it would be really bad for him to be gay. The speculation is just hurtful.

Yes, I hope for both their sakes they are both happy. I have never felt he was gay, I could be wrong but I hope he is not because it would be horrible for him to grow up gay, in a culture where he has been told it is wrong and he is going to hell, you just need to see all the hate Derick spews on twitter. I feel for anyone who is gay or trans growing up in that culture.

[Chewing Gum]

1 minute ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Beard is a term for a woman (girlfriend/spouse) who is used to hide the fact that someone is gay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)

 

 

Thanks!

[Edhelfin]

How did the gay rumour start anyway? Was it his clothes? Body language? That would be terrible stereotyping and does not prove anyone is gay.

I wonder why he was sent to ALERT though - also, if Si decides to say something hateful towards the LGBTQI community, I think all gloves should be off. Until then... I will shut up.

[Daisy0322]

7 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

I’m pretty sure Austin wore a suit. 

I thought they were referring to the fact that Joy totally melded into Austin by the time of the wedding therefore it was practically Austin in the dress 

[Italiangirl]

Maybe is a stupid question, but how can anyone born in that kind of culture could know if they are gay or not? I mean if you are not allowed to even think about sex ecc before wedding, and you are always with the same people and cannot be alone ever...

[tabitha2]

43 minutes ago, Edhelfin said:

How did the gay rumour start anyway? Was it his clothes? Body language? That would be terrible stereotyping and does not prove anyone is gay.

I wonder why he was sent to ALERT though - also, if Si decides to say something hateful towards the LGBTQI community, I think all gloves should be off. Until then... I will shut up.

Real talk from years ago Because Josiah is/was more ebullient and seemed more sensitive, creative, fashionable than his older brothers people just started speculating than assuming he was gay now it’s almost like it’s fact.  Well, the shot of him running through a field with a bunch of wild flowers did not help  

Personally I believe TLC low key played that angle up because of the online chatter. 

We have no idea if he is either way and almost certainly never will. But reading into things and seeing what we want to see is not always a good thing

[justmy2cents]

11 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

Maybe is a stupid question, but how can anyone born in that kind of culture could know if they are gay or not? I mean if you are not allowed to even think about sex ecc before wedding, and you are always with the same people and cannot be alone ever...

I was attracted to boys before I ever found out about sex. I had a mad crush on a boy in 4th grade. I suppose you just know even if you don't have the language to describe it. I remember Jill saying they thanked god for giving them 'healthy' attractions or something like that.

[SorenaJ]

I hope for him that he is not gay, that would be so sad for him. The only path for him is courtship, marriage to a woman, and then a bunch of babies. If he is gay, then he is gonna suck it up and be a good fundy husband, with a sweet wife by his side.

[LilMissMetaphor]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Flipping the marriage switch makes sexy times OK. Flipping the marriage switch makes kissing OK. Flipping the marriage switch makes being unchaperoned OK.

Similar to turning 18 makes voting OK. Turning 21 makes drinking OK, even though it wasn't the day before. 

Things are off-limits, until they're not.

I agree, but I also thought the reasoning behind not speculating on the sexuality of minors was that considering their specific fundamentalist environment, the minors were thought to be likely to experience sanctions/harassment/unpleasant fallout from their friends and family/parental units if such speculation were to put ideas into their group's collective heads.  If that's the case, we should still be avoiding such speculation because it's hardly as if the second they are married (or even moved out from the parental home) they are not still completely enmeshed in the environment/subject to ill-treatment, shunning or criticism.  

[VelociRapture]

 

5 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Because there is such a thing as free speech and it is generally valued on FJ. It is therefore only limited in very few and very specific situations. I think it‘s a necessary limitation to not speculate on someone still living with their parents (especially minors) just as it is necessary to prohibit hate speech because both carry a danger to the individual. Asking a question once someone is free to leave that fundy environment does not, IMO. They may still receive money from their parents but that is their choice now. They could just get a real job and move now. 

That fact that some members just feel uncomfortable about a question should not make it against the rules to ask it.

Btw, why is it such a problem for some FJers to talk about a person being attracted to the same sex? People talk about being attracted to specific hair colors / eye colors / sizes and body types all the time. I get that it‘s a problem for the fundies because they are homophobes. It should not be a problem on FJ. 

I agree. This topic makes me uncomfortable because he could possibly still suffer consequences if someone he knows reads here. It wouldn’t be as serious now that they’re married, but it is still something I am a bit concerned about. That said it’s not against the rules to speculate anymore, so I personally plan to just sit this discussion out. 

I do wish we could have at least waited until after their honeymoon though. They literally just got married a few days ago. But, again, that’s just a personal thing.

[xlurker]

Let me chime in on this also.  We just don't know.  There is no rule that if a man enjoys fashion/is sensitive/likes flowers/cooks/plays with babies etc that he therefore cannot be attracted to women. Just as it is not a rule that a woman that enjoys sports/works on cars,plumbing, construction/has short hair/doesn't enjoy dresses is therefore not attracted to men.  We as humans are multifaceted, each of us unique.  It is not wrong to enjoy or be anything that makes you you (as long as that is not causing harm or pain to yourself or others that is)  Si is Si... we cannot determine anything about him unless he actually tells us.  I wish them well, and that their hateful views be softened, but it also makes me uncomfortable to speculate about this specific topic.

11 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

I agree. This topic makes me uncomfortable because he could possibly still suffer consequences if someone he knows reads here. It wouldn’t be as serious now that they’re married, but it is still something I am a bit concerned about. That said it’s not against the rules to speculate anymore, so I personally plan to just sit this discussion out. 

I do wish we could have at least waited until after their honeymoon though. They literally just got married a few days ago. But, again, that’s just a personal thing.

 Please forgive the quote box, while it is a very good quote, I did not intend it to be here.  I seem to be having FJ technical difficulties as of late.  LOL

[Kaylo]

I have always had the feeling that Josiah was gay, partly for the stereotypical reasons which I know isn’t really fair since I’ve had friends who filled those same stereotypes but were straight (I was surprised when they weren’t gay too) but more so because of the way JB has always treated him - kind of like fear mixed with hate. It has felt for many years that JB was trying to break him, and I always thought it was because he was gay.

That being said, like everyone else, I’m speculating, and he could be straight and happy and in love. I’ll never know. I hope for his and Lauren’s sake they find happiness.

[Glasgowghirl]

46 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

 

I agree. This topic makes me uncomfortable because he could possibly still suffer consequences if someone he knows reads here. It wouldn’t be as serious now that they’re married, but it is still something I am a bit concerned about. That said it’s not against the rules to speculate anymore, so I personally plan to just sit this discussion out. 

I do wish we could have at least waited until after their honeymoon though. They literally just got married a few days ago. But, again, that’s just a personal thing.

That is my worry too, I don't like to speculate that about anyone fundie or not. 

 

[Kjaerringa]

I have a slightly different theory about Jana. We know she is fairly shy. She is at the heart of a family that loves her. Courting and engagement in fundyland means you leave your familiar home and go live, permanently, with one person that you just don't know very well at all. She may simply not want to take that risk, having seen siblings and friends marry. 

She has often stated she is just waiting for 'the one'. Well...as we have often commented, how do you even KNOW if he is 'the one' if you never are together without an audience, and when the courtship goes so quickly you do not see how the other handles difficulties in the relationship, or in life?

She simply may feel that home is better than life with a stranger.

[dawbs]

People, saying "I'm not speculating..." and then proceeding to speculate, that would still be spec. about the sexuality of minor/kidult.

Hidden, edited, removed.
there are lots of places that allow such spec, FJ isn't one of them.

Spec about Josiah is distasteful (because lets just focus on toxic masculinity, but embrace it wholeheartedly when it comes to notions of fundie sexuality), but allowed, because he's allegedly out from under the thumbs of those who can control all access to his life.
That's not open season for everyone

[nickelodeon]

One more thing that might be useful when talking about Josiah's sudden stiffness on camera is his involvement in ALERT, everyone's favorite radical fundamentalist paramilitary. They cultivate a real "stiff upper lip" philosophy - an ex-IBLP user here was recently telling us about visiting Big Sandy and being ignored by ALERT boys who were forbidden to talk to girls - and I wonder if Josiah hasn't been trained to put on this stoic persona.

[Kjaerringa]

I never thought Josiah was gay. I did think he was more creative and sensitive than JB...but a rock could be more creative and sensitive than JB....

I also think Josiah was 'sillier'. He loved playing jokes and clowning around, and I don't think he cared what he looked like...and THAT upset JB. I actually think Josiah was more secure in himself than the other boys, not afraid to wear pink, to play the silly role in a skit, to laugh at himself in a healthy way....but JB couldn't have that, so off to alert he went. He also stated he wasn't really committed to Christ UNTIL he went to alert...so some of those hijinks were probably considered rebellion. I doubt Marjorie broke off the courtship by saying that she thought Josh was abominable, so JB probably assumed it was Josiah's 'childish' games that did it. Because it couldn't be Josh, right? Off to camp you go, Josiah, to learn to be a Real Man. And then he returned as a Stepford Son, with little vestige of the old Josiah visible.

I hope that Josiah returns, now that he is married.  

[justmy2cents]

@Kjaerringa IIRC Josiah went to alert before courting Marjorie, not after.  We barely saw him leading up to Jill and Jessa's weddings. 

[Palimpsest]

 

6 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

That fact that some members just feel uncomfortable about a question should not make it against the rules to ask it.

Btw, why is it such a problem for some FJers to talk about a person being attracted to the same sex? People talk about being attracted to specific hair colors / eye colors / sizes and body types all the time. I get that it‘s a problem for the fundies because they are homophobes. It should not be a problem on FJ. 

It isn't against the rules to ask a question or speculate about the sexuality of an adult no longer living under the parental roof. 

It also isn't against the rules for members to point out that they find those questions and a lot of speculation distasteful.

It has never been a problem on FJ to talk about people "being attracted to people of the same sex."  We have many discussions here about sexuality of all sorts.

It is also not against the rules for members to point out that speculation or assumptions about an individual's sexual preferences based on stereotypes or stereotypical thinking is offensive.

2 hours ago, Edhelfin said:

How did the gay rumour start anyway? Was it his clothes? Body language? That would be terrible stereotyping and does not prove anyone is gay.

I wonder why he was sent to ALERT though - also, if Si decides to say something hateful towards the LGBTQI community, I think all gloves should be off. Until then... I will shut up.

Josiah may not have been "sent."  That has always been speculation.  Josiah may have really wanted to go to ALERT.  Joseph went there first, and undoubtedly many of his IBLP friends go there.  They get to leave the compound for once and that must be nice.  It's not all Bible training, forced marches, and silly fake military drills at ALERT.  They do get to learn some skills that aren't available at the SOTDRT, along with some fun things that many kids get to do at Boy Scouts.

1 minute ago, nickelodeon said:

One more thing that might be useful when talking about Josiah's sudden stiffness on camera is his involvement in ALERT, everyone's favorite radical fundamentalist paramilitary. They cultivate a real "stiff upper lip" philosophy - an ex-IBLP user here was recently telling us about visiting Big Sandy and being ignored by ALERT boys who were forbidden to talk to girls - and I wonder if Josiah hasn't been trained to put on this stoic persona.

Agreed on the stoicism.  And Josiah would have public speaking training if he did the Leadership elective at ALERT. 

[tabitha2]

Just like those Journeys to the Heart they go too. It’s not punishment to bevsent but they get to hang out with friends, hang out in the woods and participate in all sorts of activities. Jana was a counselor at more than one.