Bates 24: Selling the ‘Happy Family’ Lifestyle

[candygirl200413]

These are the same people that let their kids ride bikes without helmets in the past episode so of course, they'd have this ratty old trampoline. 

[BeccaGrim]

4 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

These are the same people that let their kids ride bikes without helmets in the past episode so of course, they'd have this ratty old trampoline. 

In the latest episode, the Bates have the kids riding bikes in South Carolina without helmets and Up Network has a big thing on the bottom left hand side of the screen saying not to ride without helmets. So the Bates themselves do this. LOL. On screen. 

[Jigsaw3]

I really worry that if Josie and Carlin both leave, Kelly might dump all the childcare and housework and cooking on Katie DESPITE her flying lessons and nursing school. The end result, of course, is that it's all too much work and Katie gives up her own education.

This is one of the real horrors of the Fundie lifestyle: the stay-at-home-daughters sacrificing their own hopes and dreams and future to raise their parents' quiverful. I hope this doesn't happen, and that Katie can get her nursing degree, but I'm really afraid for her.

[llucie]

33 minutes ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I really worry that if Josie and Carlin both leave, Kelly might dump all the childcare and housework and cooking on Katie DESPITE her flying lessons and nursing school. The end result, of course, is that it's all too much work and Katie gives up her own education.

This is one of the real horrors of the Fundie lifestyle: the stay-at-home-daughters sacrificing their own hopes and dreams and future to raise their parents' quiverful. I hope this doesn't happen, and that Katie can get her nursing degree, but I'm really afraid for her.

Same. And also i fear for Addee and Ellie, i dont see Kelly thinking 12 is too young to cook and do laundry, in fact i am sure by that age Alyssa, Michaella and Erin were doing plenty of things around the house.

[melon]

Alyssa was cooking for the family at 12.

[AlltheJs]

6 hours ago, llucie said:

Same. And also i fear for Addee and Ellie, i dont see Kelly thinking 12 is too young to cook and do laundry, in fact i am sure by that age Alyssa, Michaella and Erin were doing plenty of things around the house.

That was my thoughts. Michael, Erin and Alyssa weren't too young to sistermom at 12, I think them doing that actually gave the girls from Tori down more of a childhood to be honest. Sad when you think about it. The oldest three girls sacrificed their childhoods so their younger siblings could have one. By the time Tori, Carlin and Josie came of sistermom age when the other left they were well into their teens and, quite frankly, regardless of family size teens should be assisting with some household chores and learning to look after themselves (cooking and doing laundry). Probably just not in the volume these girls had to do.

As a side note, maybe the saving grace for the little girls in terms of cooking is that Jackson or Warden (I can't remember which one) has shown interest and learning to cook with Erin. This could be a skill he transfers through to home as they do claim that it's not a case of kids getting assigned a job when other leave but more one steps up as another leaves.

[pandora]

3 hours ago, AlltheJs said:

That was my thoughts. Michael, Erin and Alyssa weren't too young to sistermom at 12, I think them doing that actually gave the girls from Tori down more of a childhood to be honest. Sad when you think about it. The oldest three girls sacrificed their childhoods so their younger siblings could have one. By the time Tori, Carlin and Josie came of sistermom age when the other left they were well into their teens and, quite frankly, regardless of family size teens should be assisting with some household chores and learning to look after themselves (cooking and doing laundry). Probably just not in the volume these girls had to do.

As a side note, maybe the saving grace for the little girls in terms of cooking is that Jackson or Warden (I can't remember which one) has shown interest and learning to cook with Erin. This could be a skill he transfers through to home as they do claim that it's not a case of kids getting assigned a job when other leave but more one steps up as another leaves.

Reading your post was reminding me of the broader "older fundie kids are given inappropriate household responsiblity" thing, which sistermoming is part of. Michael Bates potty training her siblings, or Karen Shupe waking up in the middle of the night to help bottle feed her baby sisters are tasks that are wholly inappropriate for siblings to be asked to do, ever. But Alyssa cooking, or Jinger Duggar doing laundry- those tasks aren't necessarily age inappropriate for teens or even preteens (I think most 12 year olds can make at least scrambled eggs/mac 'n cheese, and can run a load of laundry if needed) but the whole weight of that task day in and day out being on a young person's shoulders (for 20+ people!) is wildly inappropriate. 

I like your optimism, but my fear with the volunteering model is that it's going to be harder to escape. When Kelly talked in BUB (season 1 maybe?) about Tori seeing there was a need for someone to take on cooking, the framing was that Tori was selfless and did it even though she didn't enjoy it. There's gotta be some guilting there in how Tori came to "see a need". And it's been taken on, it's gonna be hard to trade to a sibling something you took on "selflessly" (because Kelly was complaining about cooking).

[AlltheJs]

2 hours ago, pandora said:

Reading your post was reminding me of the broader "older fundie kids are given inappropriate household responsiblity" thing, which sistermoming is part of. Michael Bates potty training her siblings, or Karen Shupe waking up in the middle of the night to help bottle feed her baby sisters are tasks that are wholly inappropriate for siblings to be asked to do, ever. But Alyssa cooking, or Jinger Duggar doing laundry- those tasks aren't necessarily age inappropriate for teens or even preteens (I think most 12 year olds can make at least scrambled eggs/mac 'n cheese, and can run a load of laundry if needed) but the whole weight of that task day in and day out being on a young person's shoulders (for 20+ people!) is wildly inappropriate. 

I like your optimism, but my fear with the volunteering model is that it's going to be harder to escape. When Kelly talked in BUB (season 1 maybe?) about Tori seeing there was a need for someone to take on cooking, the framing was that Tori was selfless and did it even though she didn't enjoy it. There's gotta be some guilting there in how Tori came to "see a need". And it's been taken on, it's gonna be hard to trade to a sibling something you took on "selflessly" (because Kelly was complaining about cooking).

The sistermom model is inappropriate. It's normal for older kids to show an interest in the activities of Mom with Bub and even offer to assist but I 100% agree, Michael (or any older sibling) potty training her siblings is grossly inappropriate. However, with there being no more kids in diapers or being bottle fed at home now those types of inappropriate responsibilities should reduce.

Maybe Kelly is a really crappy cook? Also Erin was renowned as a terrible cook but then when she got married she morphed into this amazing cook. Could that have been strategic so she didn't have to cook the bulk volume at the Bates household? Maybe Tori got sick of eating at (a speculated) 10 o'clock at night after Kelly had finished her day and got organised to finally get it on the table? Maybe Tori was guilted into cooking for the herd ("You're not here all day to help with anything else, maybe this could be your thing to show us how much you care?"). We'll never know, but they have openly said before that they will make use of any skill that anybody shows that they have within the family (Think Bradley Bates first birthday where Whitney coordinated his party and there were multiple comments about how if they had known she could do this they would have made use of it already). I would imagine that the boy who show an interest and talent in cooking would soon be "persuaded" to cook, whether it be through Kellys inability/desire, somebody laying the guilts on or him actively saying he wants to do it.

[Kangaroo]

4 hours ago, AlltheJs said:

However, with there being no more kids in diapers or being bottle fed at home now those types of inappropriate responsibilities should reduce.

Imo the issue now just moves to them looking after the grandkids.

Erin lives close enough that she and her kids are there very often, and she's well on the way to a kid per year even with her clotting issues as now they know how to manage this. She had 4 miscarriages before Carson (essentially she conceived 5 times in one year) so she's got her mother's fertility.

Whitney may have slowed down between kids, but she's also now working. We know the Bates' household is happy to child mind when needed, so I can she them becoming more dependant on this if/when they have another child or she takes on more responsibility at work. 

Tori we know is pregnant, Josie will probably be pregnant by year end and it's likely Carlin will be by next year if she marries. They'll all be living close enough to use them for childcare, especially if they end up with small gaps between children like their older sisters.

You've also got Lawson, Nathan and Trace who are all old enough to marry and live near the house, and again, have tiny gaps between kids (Especially Nathan. He's so deep in the kool aid that I'd be shocked if he "allowed" his wife to wear anything but skirts and gothard approved curls. When you look back he's made some really terrible comments on women's appearances, so I can't see him being fundie light around family planning any time soon). If their wives aren't local to their families, the Bates' household will be the ones minding their children.

Erin, Whitney and Tori also all have sons first. Even if they wait until their about 8 to make them sister mums, Erin and Tori could easily have 9 children under 9 if they have one a year. 

The younger girls might end up in charge of an even bigger brood if their sisters become dependant on the help to manage their families.

[AlltheJs]

I do agree with you there Kangaroo about them living close enough to use the Bates house as babysitting. I think the key difference is that the grandkids will go home at night giving the younger girls that break that the older girls never had as sistermoms. If the grandkids aren't there then the little girls won't be feeding/changing them at night.

I wonder how it will go with the ones marrying into the family that didn't grow up in IBLP fundie mega families. For the time being Whit seems quite content with her pigeon pair and life, there's every chance that although her kids are babysat by the Bates she may actually parent them being that she's from a secular background. I'm also dying to see what they do for schooling. SOTDRT or regular school, time will tell.

Erin and Chad might go down the path of the sistermom model being that they are both from the IBLP fundie mega family pool and Erin seems to have embraced the liffestyle/culture wholeheartedly.

Alyssa and John are too far away to take advantage of the Bates family sistermom services but I can see if their brood is large enough that the sistermom model may start to happen naturally unless Alyssa really feels strongly that it was wrong and proactively stops it being that she has all girls.

I get the impression that Nathan is very much steeped in the kool aid but I also get a vibe that he seems lost with what his place is either in the family or the world in general. Since the failed courtship with Ashley it seems to be that he seems to be drifting along. There doesn't appear to be anything on the horizon for him in terms of relationships and in some ways I wonder if the failed courtship with Ashley has tainted him. I wonder if he will pull a Zach and marry outside the cult, but then if he is looking for a good little IBLP wife looking outside the cult is probably not going to work for him. Essentially if that's what he wants, Jana Duggar would be the perfect match although she isn't doing the Gothard preferred curls these days.

[Naughty&nice]

On 6/24/2018 at 8:06 AM, VelociRapture said:

Its nice to see the littles getting some fresh air and playtime and risking their lives on that death trap of a trampoline their parents insist on keeping*.

*There are holes visible in the trampoline that haven’t been patched up. 

Wow, I didn't know anyone had trampolines without poles & netting walls anymore.   They are dangerous either way but falling off & hitting your head is the biggest risk of all.  SAD

[formergothardite]

Pretty sure this isn't the first time they have shown the death trampoline. The Bates care little about keeping their children safe. 

[JordynDarby5]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Pretty sure this isn't the first time they have shown the death trampoline. The Bates care little about keeping their children safe. 

True they couldn't even be bothered to put up smoke alarms after their youngest two started a fire in laundry room. 

[anaandrade]

Watched the FB Live. Nothing interesting except people asking again when one of the guys is gonna start courting. No mention of a special announcement. I wonder if the Whitney pregnancy thing is still being announced soon and we'll get a announcement of the announcement or if we completely made it up. Has anyone seen anything new and/or recent?

[Seculardaisy]

20 hours ago, anaandrade said:

Watched the FB Live. Nothing interesting except people asking again when one of the guys is gonna start courting. No mention of a special announcement. I wonder if the Whitney pregnancy thing is still being announced soon and we'll get a announcement of the announcement or if we completely made it up. Has anyone seen anything new and/or recent?

I don’t know that we as a collective group made it up. I only saw one, maybe two people on FJ say Whitney was pregnant and there was a video. I’m still solidly “Team There Was No Accidental Announcement Video.”

That doesn’t mean she isn’t indeed pregnant though because Schrodinger’s uterus and what not.

[JordynDarby5]

What was with Nathan trying to convince his brother to become a pilot? He wasn't interested. He didn't look or sound interested. Nathan's remark that all boys dream of being pilots? Ah, no Nathan, not all do. 

[Lurky]

2 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

What was with Nathan trying to convince his brother to become a pilot? He wasn't interested. He didn't look or sound interested. Nathan's remark that all boys dream of being pilots? Ah, no Nathan, not all do. 

I'm interested in Katie (and Joy Duggar) taking flying lessons, but I wonder if they had to badger their brothers for it, and if they'd actually be able to get their own licenses.  I can only think of that one Fundy maiden who flies, one of the Seven Sisters - I wonder why that is, when the wealthier fundies seem to want all their sons with pilots licenses?

[llucie]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I'm interested in Katie (and Joy Duggar) taking flying lessons, but I wonder if they had to badger their brothers for it, and if they'd actually be able to get their own licenses.  I can only think of that one Fundy maiden who flies, one of the Seven Sisters - I wonder why that is, when the wealthier fundies seem to want all their sons with pilots licenses?

But i though the seven sisters are a diferent type of fundie, like menonnites instead of baptist? i just say this because diferent religions diferent rules, you cant really compare, althought here in the forum we discuss all tipes of fundies like just "fundies" sometimes.

[Lurky]

1 minute ago, llucie said:

But i though the seven sisters are a diferent type of fundie, like menonnites instead of baptist? i just say this because diferent religions diferent rules, you cant really compare, althought here in the forum we discuss all tipes of fundies like just "fundies" sometimes.

I'm confused - my point was I can only think of one Fundy daughter who has a pilot license, and I wonder why more of the Fundy daughters don't learn to fly, when so many sons do.  Driving is seen as a gender-neutral activity, but flying seems to be seen as masculine, and that's interesting to me.

[Dominionatrix]

17 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

What was with Nathan trying to convince his brother to become a pilot? He wasn't interested. He didn't look or sound interested. Nathan's remark that all boys dream of being pilots? Ah, no Nathan, not all do. 

It was a thinly veiled commercial for No-Updos-Allowed Nate's pilot instruction services.

[VBOY9977]

so here’s a video of Jackson driving that they didn’t show in the episode. In the talking heads, Kelly is talking about what a great driver Jackson is and how he’s super cautious, yet he’s not wearing a seatbelt, and neither is Warden. 

http://uptv.com/bringing-up-bates/bringing-up-bates-youre-in-good-hands/

[TeaELSee]

I can’t believe they aren’t wearing seatbelts! I thought everyone wore them, plus don’t cars ding (make a warning noise) until you put the seatbelt on?

You would think they would at least fake it for TV.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

I can’t believe they aren’t wearing seatbelts! I thought everyone wore them, plus don’t cars ding (make a warning noise) until you put the seatbelt on?

You would think they would at least fake it for TV.

Plus their brother is a policeman! Zach must have told them that not wearing seatbelts is illegal but also may have terrible consequences. Probably Zach as a policeman has witnessed car crashes and injured people. 

I know a family who lost 2 kids because they weren't using seatbelts. They were driving inside a town, slowly. But still tragedy happened.

[Melissa1977]

18 hours ago, Lurky said:

.  Driving is seen as a gender-neutral activity, but flying seems to be seen as masculine, and that's interesting to me.

As far as I know, it's impossible to live in US and not to drive. While not allowing women to drive could work in terms of isolating them, it would mean that men should be always around ready to drive to the store or to the doctor or wherever. For example, if I recall right, some Duggar girls knew how to drive the bus. Driving a bus or a truck or a tractor sounds manly...but if something is needed for the family, fundies make exceptions. As flying is just a hobbie (or a job), girls are not allowed to join.

[llucie]

On 6/30/2018 at 1:26 PM, Lurky said:

I'm confused - my point was I can only think of one Fundy daughter who has a pilot license, and I wonder why more of the Fundy daughters don't learn to fly, when so many sons do.  Driving is seen as a gender-neutral activity, but flying seems to be seen as masculine, and that's interesting to me.

Well flying is a very expensive hobby, and girls are not allowed to work, so taking flying lessons just as a hobby can only be done if the teacher is a brother that i am sure is not asking for money for doing it. The case of the girl form the seven sisters is diferent since she does it as a job not as a hobby, thats why i mentioned that its a very diferent circunstance since they are allowed to work outside the home and have diferent rules.