Michael and Brandon Keilen: Part 4

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I won't be able to stand the hypocrisy if they do IVF.

No birth control, because you leave that up to god to trust how many you can handle. Well He is telling you none. Trust God. (snark).

You cant have it both ways in my opinion. No medical or barrier method to stop them no medical intervention to make them.  

My take on Micheala is that she is struggling with the "answer" God has given her, which is no kids for you. Rightly so, to struggle, in my opinion. That kind of narrow thinking aka "faith" must suck to reconcile with in your head.

God told me "no kids" (various reasons), I used my free will and went and got me some IVF and got me a beautiful bouncing happy baby. I am about to try again.  

Micheala is trapped by her beliefs she either changes them or has a miracle. That is the only way to get baby if she is truly wants a genetic baby of her own.

 

As harsh as this is, I agree. If their true belief is to leave it up to God, then there should be no outside interference. If you're willing to take 20 and counting, then you also have to be willing to accept zero. God's will all the time.

[Johannah]

Or God’s will none of the time. Maybe it’s hoping for too much, but this fertility crisis could make them question their parents’ definition of/adherence to being quiverfull. Especially combined with Alyssa possibly deliberately limiting the size of her family in the future (I’m guessing they may start using NFP). I just can’t imagine all 19 of them are going to “leave it up to God.” Unfortunately, Michael is probably the least likely to veer away from her parents’ beliefs. 

[AussieKrissy]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

As harsh as this is, I agree. If their true belief is to leave it up to God, then there should be no outside interference. If you're willing to take 20 and counting, then you also have to be willing to accept zero. God's will all the time.

I have to add though, because I am sure it will come up. I find no hypocrisy in them doing anything to maintain a pregnancy (aka kelly, erin tori type pregnancies). because they have not stated anything to contradict getting medical treatment for illnesses rather than just leaving it up to god. 

Once the baby is there, any sane and rational person who wants that baby will fight for it. Bates included. But i suppose it is their business, breading babies.

If it is "god's will" you will loose it anyway but I see no harm or hypocrisy in trying to keep it healthy, just like you would if it was already born and needed medical treatment. I will never get those extreme religious nuts that have let a baby die of a fever because it was god's will to just pray over them...

Another kettle of arsehole fish though....

[AussieKrissy]

On thinking on it some more. I also find it hypocritical that they even “know” they are infertile (or what ever Dr Vic has told them). If you trust god so much with how many children you are going to have why do you need to seek medical attention when they are not happening. Why not just accept gods will and leave it at that? Don’t use birth control don’t do ivf, don’t find out if anything is wrong to stop you conceiving. You don’t need to, god will give you as many children as you can handle. Oh that’s right fundies are hypocrites. You can only interfere with gods will when it suits your end game. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

On thinking on it some more. I also find it hypocritical that they even “know” they are infertile (or what ever Dr Vic has told them). If you trust god so much with how many children you are going to have why do you need to seek medical attention when they are not happening. Why not just accept gods will and leave it at that? Don’t use birth control don’t do ivf, don’t find out if anything is wrong to stop you conceiving. You don’t need to, god will give you as many children as you can handle. Oh that’s right fundies are hypocrites. You can only interfere with gods will when it suits your end game. 

Even if they weren't open to fertility intervention (general fundy 'they' as i have no idea what this couple believes) it would make sense to consult a doctor if anything with your body isn't working per expectations.

Young people having unprotected sex for a long period of time without a pregnancy could possibly indicate a health issue that needs to be addressed aside from fertility.  They aren't anti-medicine so I don't think it's hypocritical to see a doctor if your body is not acting in accordance with what you'd expect if healthy.

[AussieKrissy]

19 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Even if they weren't open to fertility intervention (general fundy 'they' as i have no idea what this couple believes) it would make sense to consult a doctor if anything with your body isn't working per expectations.

Young people having unprotected sex for a long period of time without a pregnancy could possibly indicate a health issue that needs to be addressed aside from fertility.  They aren't anti-medicine so I don't think it's hypocritical to see a doctor if your body is not acting in accordance with what you'd expect if healthy.

Valid point. I did not think of it like that. 

Micheala, indeed could have been checking to rule out cancer for eg (my head always goes to the worst). More than likely though they were checking on how to best make a baby or why a baby isn't happening naturally  which is indeed trying to go against their (love your general fundie "they" btw) fundie beliefs. I do not believe finding out a health issue other than infertility was their endgame in their consultations. But that is my radical speculations.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Valid point. I did not think of it like that. 

Micheala, indeed could have been checking to rule out cancer for eg (my head always goes to the worst). More than likely though they were checking on how to best make a baby or why a baby isn't happening naturally  which is indeed trying to go against their (love your general fundie "they" btw) fundie beliefs. I do not believe finding out a health issue other than infertility was their endgame in their consultations. But that is my radical speculations.

I agree that's quite likely.  And I think both Michelle and Kelly were hypocrites and lying about leaving it up to God when that only applied in not preventing births while they both actively tried to conceive.

I was just saying in general if your body is behaving in an atypical way it's good to get that checked out regardless of whether you were going to use medical intervention or not.

[AussieKrissy]

14 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree that's quite likely.  And I think both Michelle and Kelly were hypocrites and lying about leaving it up to God when that only applied in not preventing births while they both actively tried to conceive.

I was just saying in general if your body is behaving in an atypical way it's good to get that checked out regardless of whether you were going to use medical intervention or not.

Another good point, I forgot they tracked their cycle (I think MeChelle did too). Hypocrisy at work.

[theotherelise]

I think this is one of those times when it's clear they are Quiverfull and not "leaving it up to God." 

As Quiverfulls, it wouldn't seem hypocritical to me to use some kind of treatment to stimulate follicle growth (Clomid/Letrezole/FSH) and to trigger ovulation once the follicle(s) are the right size (HCG) and then do timed intercourse. I'm not sure they'd love to do a full IUI (intrauterine insemination) because that usually involves washing the sperm to get rid of the lousy ones. That usually requires manual completion by the male, but technically you can use a special condom and get the sample through intercourse then rush it to the Dr. I expect they have probably at least done some hormonal medication at this point - even just estrogen cream and progesterone suppositories.

In terms of IVF, there are several options. I'm in two Christian support groups related to loss/infertility, so I see many different religious perspectives on treatment. I knew one person who had planned to only fertilize some of the eggs retrieved and freeze the rest. That way they could keep the number of embryos low but also thaw and attempt to fertilize the frozen eggs if they needed. Freezing eggs does not work nearly as well as freezing embryos, so it's definitely a risk. But if you had the money and inclination, you could decide to only fertilize, say, 5-10 at a time. You might end up with a couple embryos out of that, who knows? 

My husband and I just decided to do genetic testing when we do IVF in the spring. I'm not sure how people in our church or the larger Christian community would feel knowing that we would make decisions about which embryo to transfer based on those results (i.e. most miscarriages are caused by chromosomal abnormalities and this test give us insight into which embryos were abnormal).

If the Keilen's truly don't have any male factor issues, they could have some hope of spontaneous pregnancy still, but they would probably want to make significant lifestyle changes to account for any undetected conditions (inflammatory, hormonal imbalancing, etc). I know the beliefs are terrible, but I will never stop feeling bad for them in this situation. 

[Iamtheway]

My friends discovered that the husband had testicular cancer when they seeked help for their infertility. If they hadn’t had problems the cancer most likely would have gone undetected.

He is healthy now and they have two beutiful children. So for them infertility was a blessing in disguise. 

[Mela99]

I just passed Brandon and Michaela and a couple littles in the Meridian Mall in Okemos. I ALMOST stopped .. but I didn't want to be a creep. They're sitting in the food court.

[OhNoNike]

12 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I just passed Brandon and Michaela and a couple littles in the Meridian Mall in Okemos. I ALMOST stopped .. but I didn't want to be a creep. They're sitting in the food court.

Doesn’t Brandon have a day job?

[Mela99]

I don't think it's out of the ordinary, it's a week before Thanksgiving. Time off to see family?

I will say Michaela is very pretty, and Brandon was really attentive to her/the kids. Not entirely sure who the kids were - I didn't pay much attention to the faces. 

[Kangaroo]

1 minute ago, Mela99 said:

I don't think it's out of the ordinary, it's a week before Thanksgiving. Time off to see family?

I will say Michaela is very pretty, and Brandon was really attentive to her/the kids. Not entirely sure who the kids were - I didn't pay much attention to the faces. 

Wouldn't shock me if they've sent the younger siblings to stay with M&B, and then they'll fly back to Tennessee with them for Thanksgiving episode filming and to meet Tori's baby.

[TeaELSee]

Does Brandon’s siblings have little kids? It would make more sense for them to be hanging out with kids from his side of the family in Michigan.

Edited November 15, 2018 by TeaELSee

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

Does Brandon’s siblings have little kids? It would make more sense for them to be hanging out with kids from his side of the family in Michigan.

I don't think that Brandon has any young nieces/nephews. Also Michaela's Instagram post congratulating Bori said she couldn't wait to see Kade again, so it seems she was visiting when he was born.

[Kangaroo]

4 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I don't think that Brandon has any young nieces/nephews. Also Michaela's Instagram post congratulating Bori said she couldn't wait to see Kade again, so it seems she was visiting when he was born.

I've just seen she clarified in a reply to her post on Instagram. They were in town briefly and did meet the baby, but they didn't take any photos with him as he needed to be fed.

Spoiler

 

 

[miss_batson]

 

[lumpentheologie]

#grateful seems like such a weird hashtag to use right after complaining about the cold. 

I guess she always has to demonstrate working on that contentment. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by lumpentheologie

[habert]

Brandon.....Michael.....mix it up a little 

[miss_batson]

Michael posted various pitcures of her and Brandon playing with nieces and nephews during their visit to Tennessee few weeks ago..

Spoiler

 

 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 11/3/2018 at 10:39 AM, lumpentheologie said:

The Bates seem to think that calling attention to themselves is actually a ministry, and that showing off how perfect and godly they are will encourage other people to live like they do. Which is maybe not wrong in terms of converting people to their lifestyle, but it's far from how Jesus said to behave. 

THIS. IS. GENIUS.

 

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

14 hours ago, miss_batson said:

Michael posted various pitcures of her and Brandon playing with nieces and nephews during their visit to Tennessee few weeks ago..

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It does not look like they were allowed to mix colors... Geez.

[SorenaJ]

I don't think Michael and Brandon have left it up to God as it is. Didn't Michael have her fallopian tubes cleared out because there was a blocking? If God wanted to unblock your fallopian tubes, wouldn't he have done it, or make the egg(s) jump from one side to the other? If you are not leaving it up to God anyway, you might as well do IVF. 

Also, in my opinion, you can still do IVF whilst leaving it up to God. Maybe God spoke to you through the Holy Spirit and prompted you to do IVF. Or alternatively, to limit your family size, with NFP or birth control. 

[Melissa1977]

Something weird about the Bates is that they post pictures of the grandkids very often, but they seem to do very few activities with their youngest  8 children. Sometimes Michael and Alyssa have posted about their young siblings visiting them, but in general they are not pictured, and it's all about babies and toddlers. Michael, who mothered these kids, seems to miss more her sister's babies than her own little siblings. Lawson apparently loves his nephews and nieces so much, so why isn't him playing with Jeb and Jud or doing something fun with Callie or Addee? I don't even mention Kelly or Gil because we all know how caring they are.