Lori Alexander 39: Civilization breaks down because...women

[samurai_sarah]

Since this seems to be an issue-

My kind of atheism: I just don't believe. That's really it. I have no issues with anyone believing. As long as you leave me alone. I shall return the favour.

[louisa05]

Yeah, I think the context in which it's helpful is when someone feels like they're not supposed to "complain", or should be "over it" by now, or just feel like they're not allowed to reveal or "dwell on" their negative emotions. It's an invitation to be candid about a hard situation, and I've seen and experienced that phrase as a comfort many times.
But if one is in a different situation, such as trying very hard to hold their feelings in check for their own reasons (not someone else's expectations), or someone who feels like their difficult situation is defining them, or, well, any other reason, it wouldn't be what you want to hear.
I guess the key is trying one's best, and being forgiving of others trying their best (and walking away from people who are being controlling rather than kind!).

In my caregiving situation, with one parent terminally ill and disabled by treatment and the other already disabled prior while I lived 65 miles away, that was really all I wanted to hear. Especially because I had a few sanctimommy friends adding to it with endless explanations that my situation was easy compared to having kids.

I have a lot of evangelical friends and acquaintances. One wing of our extended family is fundamentalist. I didn’t get witnessed to or have the attempt once or twice during my dad’s illness and after his death. I basically had about four years worth of texts, emails, messenger, cards, calls and in person appeals. It was a multiple times per week occurrence. When you cut one off, another popped up. And some would not go away.

Get harassed like that during a stressful stretch of years and you might feel differently about how well meaning you all think it is.

[EowynW]

@louisa05 I have never understood why people think having children is "the hardest job ever" and the rest of us have such easy, stress free & restful lives. It's very aggravating. At a recent family gathering with MR EW's side, we had to leave early because he gets up at 4 AM for work. His brother & sister in law asked while we were leaving so early and we told them. They laughed and said "oh we get up even earlier than that because we have to take care of kids, but we are still here having fun." Burned me up.

[Koala]

1 hour ago, dsjbeam said:

Is that a reflection of Lori in the side window? Looks like she's posing and rather defrauding. 

In the LEGGINGS?  Yes, it's Lori in LEGGINGS.

[louisa05]

6 minutes ago, EowynW said:

@louisa05 I have never understood why people think having children is "the hardest job ever" and the rest of us have such easy, stress free & restful lives. It's very aggravating. At a recent family gathering with MR EW's side, we had to leave early because he gets up at 4 AM for work. His brother & sister in law asked while we were leaving so early and we told them. They laughed and said "oh we get up even earlier than that because we have to take care of kids, but we are still here having fun." Burned me up.

I finally told one of them to just get over herself. When her kid graduates from high school and moves on into adulthood, there will be a party and people will congratulate her. When my caregiving ended, there was a funeral. Totally different experience. But she's a piece of work, anyway. Always has been since seventh grade when I met her. 

Something tells me that unless they have a newborn, those people are not up with kids before 4 a.m. every damn day. Unless they are doing what my cousin's wife used to do. When her kids were primary school age (5-8 years), she put them to bed at about 5:30-6 p.m, then they got up at around 3:30 a.m. and she complained about how exhausting parenthood is because you have to get up in the middle of the night. 

Honestly, in regard to this thread, right now, I am just astounded that there is a conversation on FJ in which people are saying "Hey, evangelize me! I think it means you care!!" 

 

 

[DaisyD]

I don't think anyone is saying that they want to be evangelized to. I think they're saying that they understand where SOME people are coming from with it and would prefer the OFFER rather than some of the other things that have been said to them.

[Curious]

10 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Honestly, in regard to this thread, right now, I am just astounded that there is a conversation on FJ in which people are saying "Hey, evangelize me! I think it means you care!!" 

A couple things.

First, I don't think anyone commenting on this thread has the attitude you are describing.  You seem to think that while people have different life experiences, rather than viewing life through their own lens, everyone should view it through YOUR lens.  

You do this pretty regularly and I find it pretty annoying, but you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.

This may be news to you, but everyone has shitty stuff happen to them.  Everyone has some portion of their family that is annoying, entitled, rude, whatever.  Everyone has their own trials in life.  This is not something specific to just you.

If someone has been through something similar to what I am going through I will listen to what they have to say because who knows, it might be relevant to me or it might not, but it doesn't cost anything to listen to others experiences.  Similarly, if someone is talking about, for example, spinal issues, I am likely to share my experiences because if I can save just one person from going through what I've been through then it's worth it.

I am sure this will make some people clutch their pearls, but I think you like being a victim.  You never say anything positive.  It's always negative and what YOU have been through.  If I had a family as shitty as you describe your's as being I would have noped out long ago.  In fact, I did when it became clear that no matter what I did it would never be good enough.  Life is too short.

[Petronella]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

Get harassed like that during a stressful stretch of years and you might feel differently about how well meaning you all think it is.

 

 

I think we're describing completely different things.

[church_of_dog]

15 hours ago, Fascinated said:

I do wish we had more atheists here though. We have, I think, only 5 members in the non-religion club. I wish more people would join there so we could have some conversations. I chose my username due to this - religion in general  truly fascinates me.  People are fascinating  I’m fascinated.  

I am an unabashed atheist.  Unfortunately, I'm also "aclubbish" (meaning I feel averse to joining clubs).  But if I change my mind, I'll join that one!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

7 hours ago, Curious said:

Have you read the old PB thread? https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/freejinger/needs-of-the-few-outweighing-the-needs-of-many-a-m-t6281.html#.UQn9f79ZVip

I think I've only read a little bit of that. I might put on an asbestos suit and give it another try.  This thread is the one that made me hungry:

5 hours ago, dsjbeam said:

Or breastfeeding! 

Or carseat use, or how long the Duggarettes should wear their hair...

[delphinium65]

17 hours ago, Fascinated said:

 I do wish we had more atheists here though. We have, I think, only 5 members in the non-religion club. I wish more people would join there so we could have some conversations. I chose my username due to this - religion in general  truly fascinates me.  People are fascinating  I’m fascinated.  

I didn't realize there was such a club, until now! 

[Briefly]

20 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@louisa05, after my baby daughter died, we got this odious book in the mail "Why Your Little One is in Heaven" the premise of which is she died so that my husband and I could "come to know Jesus."  We were Catholic and this was sent to us anonymously. At the time, we lived in this neighborhood dominated by a Bob Jones associated church.  Whoever sent that piece of crap to us, well, it was a shitty thing to do and it was very upsetting.  My husband threw the book in the garbage where it belonged.  None of those good fundie neighbors came to either of Katherine's services (wake or funeral Mass), btw.  They might have gotten Catholic cooties, doncha know?

Years ago on the old Kate and Allie show, Chip's new kitten died and Allie had to explain what happened to the kitten at death.  She explained that some people believed that the kitten would go to Heaven and other people thought that death was more like a light that had been switched off.  I liked that.  IDK, maybe that was the start of my questioning.  

I am so sorry that you lost your daughter, and so sorry that you had to deal with that anonymous idiot!  There is just no excuse for that.

18 hours ago, Jellybean said:

I am seen as a fair target for evangelists because it is apparent, even from a distance, that my body is broken and damaged. Disabilities provoke lots of different reactions in those that I meet, most of whom don’t recognise me as being just another human; just like them.

Many people are afraid of pain, immobility, progressive medical conditions, and of dying young. It’s easier to view me as ‘inspirational’ or ‘incredibly brave’ because they don’t want to believe that I’m just like them, but in an uncomfortable situation. People tell me that they couldn’t cope with my life; they would rather die than use a wheelchair or have a feeding tube. 

Before my body started to fall apart, I might have had similar thoughts, but I have found that my life still has so much value - light and love and laughter - despite all the medical stuff that I need to keep my body on track.

This is my rather long-winded way to say that I understand why people feel that I need to be ‘saved’ and that knowledge of their god would bring some comfort to me, amidst the obvious suffering. They don’t see value in my life, and are offering a solution to the problems that they see. I find it hurtful that my life is seen as so worthless; patronising that complete strangers think that my suffering is so urgent that they can’t possibly stay silent.

Except that I am grateful for my life. I am happy as an atheist, happy with my life partner, grateful for good friends and family members. Those who need to tell me about their gods are doing so because they can only see their own prejudices - my life is not worth living without faith in their deity and/or healing from my medical conditions. 

Please don’t project your own fears onto me. 

My life matters, just as it is.

I matter, just as I am. 

 

My Aunt, my mother's sister, had polio as a teenager. She lived with my parents from years before I was born. She was on crutches and then later she fell and broke her hip so she was in a wheelchair for many years.  She was a spectacular lady, we named our daughter after her. If someone tried to tell her to pray away her physical condition, she would have ripped their head off.  She taught me so much about standing up for others, and also for ourselves.  I'm sure that she had moments of sadness, but she was the strongest person I have ever known. And everybody knew it.

[KDA]

9 hours ago, EowynW said:

@louisa05 I have never understood why people think having children is "the hardest job ever" and the rest of us have such easy, stress free & restful lives. It's very aggravating. At a recent family gathering with MR EW's side, we had to leave early because he gets up at 4 AM for work. His brother & sister in law asked while we were leaving so early and we told them. They laughed and said "oh we get up even earlier than that because we have to take care of kids, but we are still here having fun." Burned me up.

If they have to get up earlier than 4am because they have to take care of kids then they're definitely doing something wrong! I have 4 kids and not once have I gotten up at 4am to start my day. I mean, I get up in the night to care for them when they're sick or whatever, but no way have my kids ever been allowed to start their day at 4am. Why would I do that to myself? They're KIDS. They get up when I tell them to get up. If they wake early, they're allowed to play quietly. If they need me, I will come. But they're not allowed to disturb the rest of the household until 7am.

In the past, hubby has had to get up for work at 3.30am (but not any more! Yay!) but me and the kids continued to sleep. In the past, I have had to get up for work at 5am - while hubby and the kids continued to sleep.

Parenting can be hard, yes. And I imagine it's harder for stupid people who seem to struggle with life's basics. But it's honestly not *that* hard. Parents who try to pretend that what they do is so much more important, and so much more difficult, than what any one else does, are just dicks and should be ignored.

The only time I can truly see parenting being the hardest job ever, would be if a child had severe special needs and required endless patience and 24 hour personal care. Then hell yes, that would be challenging. Especially if they can't get enough respite care for them to feel actually human. But fortunately, for most of us, it's not like that.

[Demonfan]

@Fascinated and @church_of_dog I am also an atheist. I just don't believe. People have offered to pray for me during times of stress and sadness. I take it as it is meant. When people believe that they are being helpful and kind by praying for me I accept it gratefully, and thankfully. Even if I don't believe, their actions are meant to be kind. If the intent is other than kindness, I am polite but firm.

[Hisey]

23 minutes ago, KDA said:

The only time I can truly see parenting being the hardest job ever, would be if a child had severe special needs and required endless patience and 24 hour personal care. Then hell yes, that would be challenging. Especially if they can't get enough respite care for them to feel actually human. But fortunately, for most of us, it's not like that.

I agree. Parenting neurotypical kids can be hard, but it is FAR from the *hardest job ever.* Coal mining, for example, would be far harder for me. The dirt, the claustrophobia, the danger, the health risks. .. how can you compare this to making cookies with a five-year old? Or even, changing a dirty diaper? There are lots of jobs that are way worse than the stress and worry side of parenting.

OTOH, if I had a child with severe special needs, who needed me 24/7, and (especially) could not communicate with me in any meaningful way. . . well, that would come close to being the hardest job in the world to me. My neighbor has a severely autistic teenage boy who fits this bill. It's a hard road. I would go crazy without any time to myself.

When my kids were little, I made it a point to make things as easy as possible. Overalls on toddlers, short haircuts, disposable diapers, toilet training at age 3 instead of 2. . . I would never had gotten up at 4 am as a regular thing, when 7 am would do just as well.

[Fascinated]

I do kind of feel like parenting is the hardest job.  Not physically, of course. But you are responsible for raising a human being, or several. I’m not talking about caring for infants or toddlers.  That is actually the easy part, as trying as that can be.  It is the idea that there are these people looking to you to ensure that they grow up to be functioning, happy, well-adjusted, independent and, hopefully, successful adults.

That is a massive responsibility.  We have our first child and we don’t know what we are doing. Even when we have subsequent children we are basically winging it, at least with the firstborn.  Every single member of this forum is painfully aware of how easily, and how often, parents can fuck up their children.  

[Beermeet]

I agree with @KDA and @Hisey.  Parenting in general is not the hardest job ever and us parents need not be held in a higher esteem for procreating vs. those that are child free.  With the exception of intense special needs children as you both stated.  As I see it, it's harder because: 

A. It's such a strong love it's scary sometimes.  I wasn't a big worrier before I had my babies.  Now, dude!  I worry.  I just want to do the best I can.  Protect but teach them to fly. The emotional part is hard!  Every minute of every day, they are on mind in some way.

B.  Unlike pets, a parent just can't leave town putting out extra food/water, friends stopping by or boarding the kids!  Much harder to up and go to Vegas like we used to!

C.  The school/work schedule thing can be difficult to navigate sometimes!  

But,  totally doable and I love being a mom.  I'm not one to go on and on about my kids.  I avoid those moms too!  My life is not more or less challenging because I wanted children.  More expensive?  Yes!  Geez, as they get older...wow, they are expensive LOL!  But, no more of a burden than anyone else who has to deal with expenses that are necessary. 

On the flip side, I had a friend tell me ( after her 18 yr old cat died, she loved that cat.  I love my 2 cats that passed at 18 and 16 and I super love my cat now, like a lot.  But, still.) to imagine if my son died, that's how she feels.  Ummmm, hard no on that!  Say what now?!  People need to stop one upping each other, you know?  It's lame.

 

[Demonfan]

Agreed that it's not a competition. People make the choices that work for them. What is hard? Life is hard for all of us sometimes. I  enjoy my career and my kids, both can be worrying and exhausting, but also fun and fulfilling. Being a parent is, for me more emotionally tiring than physically so. That is also because  as an evil working mom, I contribute to the collapse of society by happily outsourcing as much of the domestic work that I can.

[Koala]

Lori:

Quote

He calls women to be modest and shamefaced (not drawing attention to ourselves).

Also, Lori:

Quote

I used to pay some money once in a while to "boost" some of my posts but the last time I did that (it was a more controversial post which is normal for me), they stopped it from going during the day (when it gets many more hits) and only ran it during the night so I won't do it anymore. Besides, I don't need to anymore with my viral post.

 

[Beermeet]

Lori is such a Loser.  Capital L.  It's straight up pathetic to boost your posts unless you can make money off it.  And, then, brag about the one post that went viral!  Bwahahaha!! Lori:  So, yeah, that happened guys.  Checked it off the list.  Don't need another one bitches!  *furiously tries to keep making another viral post; doesn't understand why she hasn't had at least 5 more*

[Hisey]

Lori's book is available in the British Isles, on Amazon.uk. 

There seem to be a lot of feminists there too, busily destroying society. And those gals don't don't like Lori's book at all:

Quote

If I could give it less than 1 star I would.
Even the description makes my skin crawl, but having been subjected to some of the "verses" on Facebook, I feel sick.
Stories of a "submissive" wife means "keeping yourself in shape for him", "having sex when he wants, sod your feelings", "jumping to his every demand or he has the right to strike you for disobedience"
Cherry picking quotes from the bible to get her twisted world view across then saying negative press is unjustified. No...promoting child abuse is unjustified.
Do not buy, do not read, if you truly want to find god visit ANY church. They are all better than this woman.

The British women have put Lori properly in her place, awarding her only 1.6 stars on Amazon.uk. They are putting us to shame.

58 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Lori is such a Loser.  Capital L.  It's straight up pathetic to boost your posts unless you can make money off it.  And, then, brag about the one post that went viral!  Bwahahaha!! Lori:  So, yeah, that happened guys.  Checked it off the list.  Don't need another one bitches!  *furiously tries to keep making another viral post; doesn't understand why she hasn't had at least 5 more*

She's mostly a loser because she has nothing going on in her life, but playing all day on the computer, criticizing other women. She's a loser because she's getting herself twisted in a knot over something she can't control. Thongs on the beach! Ken's eyes are wandering! Women are working! None of these things are things she can control.

Most of all, she desperately clutches her money to her chest and doesn't realize the joy she could get if she helped others in some way, either financially or with her time.

[feministxtian]

51 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Most of all, she desperately clutches her money to her chest and doesn't realize the joy she could get if she helped others in some way, either financially or with her time.

The most generous people I have ever known are people who don't have much. 

[KDA]

3 hours ago, Beermeet said:

 

@KDA@Hisey

 

On the flip side, I had a friend tell me ( after her 18 yr old cat died, she loved that cat.  I love my 2 cats that passed at 18 and 16 and I super love my cat now, like a lot.  But, still.) to imagine if my son died, that's how she feels.  Ummmm, hard no on that!  Say what now?!  People need to stop one upping each other, you know?  It's lame.

 

Oh yes. That is a pet peeve of mine. I get that people love their pets. I love mine, too. And when they've gotten old and sick and died, I was heartbroken. But the heartbreak of losing a pet can in no way compare to the absolute devastation of losing a child. It can't even come close. I find it insulting when people say something like that, even if their intention is to be kind.

 

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, KDA said:

Oh yes. That is a pet peeve of mine. I get that people love their pets. I love mine, too. And when they've gotten old and sick and died, I was heartbroken. But the heartbreak of losing a pet can in no way compare to the absolute devastation of losing a child. It can't even come close. I find it insulting when people say something like that, even if their intention is to be kind.

 

I was crushed when I had to release my dog Brandy from life...HOWEVER, as much as it hurt...it DID NOT BEGIN to compare to the pain that I STILL feel after losing a child. He's been gone for 32 years. It STILL hurts!!!!!

[usmcmom]

I used to get up at 4:00 am with my daughter and it was a nightmare! 

When she was three and four years old, my husband was in a job where he left every Monday to fly overseas. He would return every Friday. It just happened that he would leave the house at 4:00 on Monday mornings to catch his plane. For about six weeks, our daughter woke up every time he walked past her room and left the house. We tried everything - having her sleep in a different room with me, having her sleep in her brother's room, running a fan so she wouldn't hear him. Nothing worked. Nothing worked to get her back to sleep either. She was up for the day at four and they were BAD days. We both cried a lot on those days. 

Finally, I asked my husband if he would leave on Sunday nights. I know that sounds odd - asking your husband to leave a day early; but I was at the end of my rope. It started the already difficult week off badly and I never seemed to fully recover from that bad start. He saw my point and started taking a Sunday evening flight and our weeks were a thousand times better. 

So, I agree; if your kids (not infants) are waking at four, there is a problem and you need to crrect it. Four o'clock wake up times ARE NOT NORMAL for small children.