Joy and Austin 17: Staying Off the Internet

[SorenaJ]

Joy looks perfectly fine and respectful. If she showed up to my wedding looking like that, she'd be averagely dressed, neither under nor over-dressed. 

You are never required to wear make-up. 

Here people wear yoga pants for everything. Together with a hoodie, it seems pretty standard attire for uni. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@Karma, even if every single person at the ballet was judging you, I don't think that it's very likely you'll ever meet any of them again.

I don't think I'll ever go shopping in pjs and a bathrobe (like the lady I saw at Walmart last week), but I don't put on a skirt to go shopping. Joy's skirt and top wouldn't look out of place at most of the weddings I've been to as a guest. The weddings where I was part of the wedding party, I was too busy and preoccupied to pay attention to what the guests were wearing.

If appropriate means dressing to about the same level of formality as everyone else, then Joy may well have been dressed appropriately. If appropriate means dressing to suit your activities, then I think that @Karma and her daughter were dressed very appropriately! 

[nastyhobbitses]

4 hours ago, Karma said:

DD and I were in New York for 2 days last week and had tickets to the New York ballet (the nutcracker, it was fabulous).  We were SEVERELY underdressed in jeans, walking shoes, polar fleece and down jacket.  Lots of people were in beautiful dresses.  But it was 35f, snow on the ground and we were walking 30 minutes each way from our hotel.  We had 3 weeks of warm weather and only 2 days of cold, and this was our only dressy occasion.  I certainly wasn’t about to allocate valuable suitcase space to fancy cold weather clothing.  I don’t know if we were judged, but I enjoyed the ballet nevertheless.

New Yorker here. People probably thought, "oh, they're tourists and they forgot to pack something nice or didn't want to change" if they thought about what you were wearing at all. 

My final thought on this matter: I get that Joy needed to be comfortable, and were I Tori I probably wouldn't give that much of a fuck (were I me I'd probably give a fuck, hide that I do, and feel bad that I do), but to me, if you're going to an evening wedding, and you know you're going to an evening wedding, and you're not coming to the wedding from trekking around a major city in the cold/heat all day, show respect for the occasion and for your host by making a modicum of effort. And that's whether you're a man or a woman. I judge the fuck out of the Duggar boys and husbands aside from Ben and Jeremy for not getting suits that don't look like they're wearing Daddy's suit for Career Day. You have all this damn money; find a tailor. 

[Gillyweed]

5 hours ago, Karma said:

DD and I were in New York for 2 days last week and had tickets to the New York ballet (the nutcracker, it was fabulous).  We were SEVERELY underdressed in jeans, walking shoes, polar fleece and down jacket.  Lots of people were in beautiful dresses.  But it was 35f, snow on the ground and we were walking 30 minutes each way from our hotel.  We had 3 weeks of warm weather and only 2 days of cold, and this was our only dressy occasion.  I certainly wasn’t about to allocate valuable suitcase space to fancy cold weather clothing.  I don’t know if we were judged, but I enjoyed the ballet nevertheless.

I'm lucky enough to see broadway shows a handful of times a year, almost always wearing jeans and a normal shirt. I've even worn shorts in the summer. Last month my roommate and I went to see Book of Mormon at tbe Kennedy Center in DC, and we felt severely underdressed in jeans compared to everyone else! It didn't matter much, we still enjoyed the show  Everyone probably thought we were poor college kids anyway

 

[Glasgowghirl]

People have different tastes and styles and not everyone has the same opinion as to what is formal or not. If Tori specified that she wanted everyone in formal dresses and suits then Joy should have dressed up more otherwise her outfit is fine, she isn't someone who likes to dress up and if she doesn't have to then I don't blame her for not doing it, my anxiety and depression gets worse around family events worrying about what to wear and how to look, it often ruins my enjoyment of these events. 

If you like to dress formally all the time then that's good just don't tear those who don't down. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

18 hours ago, singsingsing said:

There are always excuses to look 'shitty', many of which would be unknown to outside observers, and no woman is ever obligated to live up to other people's beauty standards.

I'm not saying that any of these issues apply to Joy, but for anyone with depression, body issues, anxiety large gatherings are torture for them. They know the clothes aren't good enough, they are concerned about hair and make up, then you give up figuring everything looks like crap on you anyway so what does it matter, I might as well be comfortable in the clothes.  I've been in these situations you just feel so shitty about yourself that any effort is pointless because you will look/feel just as horrible if you did nothing. Even when you look fine, but you can't wrap your head around that. 

[RubyRei]

I have bad anxiety and body image issues and I almost always feel worse when I try to dress up and look nice. If the occasion calls for it, I’ll usually do it anyway, but I would hope that event holders would care more about me feeling comfortable (within reason) and confident and actually having a good time rather than what I’m wearing. 

I know personally that’s how I would treat others if I were hosting an event. 

And yes, I know I’m beating a dead horse and I will quietly move along 

[singsingsing]

I'll just say one more thing about Joy's appearance: first, it's a black and white photo so it's hard to judge exactly what she looked like. Second, she's not wearing ripped jeans and a t-shirt. She appears to be wearing a nice shirt and a nice black skirt. Her outfit appears to be clean and neat, and pretty well-fitting.

Her hair is not messy - she's attending an event, not posing for a selfie after spending half an hour carefully styling herself in the mirror, so of course her hair isn't going to be perfectly neat, but it certainly looks clean and combed. Not all of us are blessed with hair that stays perfectly in place all night, and many (most?) of us don't care!

Joy has expressed in the past that she isn't a fan of dresses. She's also currently about seven months along in her first pregnancy, and at her age a lot of women are still trying to figure out their personal style and what looks good/appropriate - being heavily pregnant only complicates that more.

Joy's outfit could be described best as 'business casual'. We've seen time and time again that 'business casual' (and even less formal) is considered perfectly appropriate for guests at these weddings. What I wear to my grandparents' for our Christmas gathering today would be wildly inappropriate if I were going to meet the Queen, but I'm not going to meet the Queen, I'm going to hang out with my family, and our dress code is slightly different than at Sandringham.  Basically, if this type of outfit is normal and acceptable in their circle (and from everything we've seen over the years it would definitely appear that it is), then there was nothing inappropriate about her appearance at all.

[Furbabiesonly]

I feel like a lot of it also depends on the couple getting married and their tastes. I know some people who would be just fine with me being dressed down at their wedding and others who would not be. I don’t know Tori’s personality well enough to know how she would react. I know I would never wear Joys outfit to a wedding, but I also spend 80 percent of my time in scrubs so I enjoy dressing up when I can. Including always taking a nice dress along in my suitcase when I travel just in case  

I definitely would expect people to dress up at my wedding, and would possibly be offended if they showed up in jeans. But it’s still a little over a year out so I suppose we’ll see how I feel day of. 

[Lizzybet]

22 hours ago, mstee said:

I’m almost halfway through my pregnancy and no matter how much makeup I put on ( I don’t do a lot but I try to cover the dark circles under my eyes), I still look like a pale zombie. Waiting on that pregnancy glow but I don’t think that’s happening. 

According to my former Portuguese in laws – actually they’re still Portuguese but no longer in laws – that means you’re having a boy.

[sta_sha]

23 hours ago, mstee said:

. Waiting on that pregnancy glow but I don’t think that’s happening.

As far as I can tell, pregnancy glow is a myth- I was never glowing, just sweaty from the all day nausea. Hang in there!

[squiddysquid]

On 24/12/2017 at 1:31 PM, victoriasponge said:

Ugh, surely the number one rule of people wearing makeup is that they're wearing it because they want to. We can swap boyfriends if you'd like, mine often complains I take too long putting it on when we go out. Maybe he'd learn his lesson when I purposefully take as long as possible and he doesn't get to the pub before last orders are called and be grateful you're a beautiful person agreeing to go out with him on a Wednesday evening at all. (Plus pubs... well, if I'm not going out for cocktails after why would I dress up?) ((Also also, hair and a check shirt on a guy doesn't take as long as a full face of makeup and nice hair for a lady.)

Edit: Me and my housemate are both really pale, she's literally ghostly and it is gorgeous, if you do want foundations that run pale try the Fenty (though it's lacking pink undertones), Nars, Urban Decay and Huda Beauty. All of them are really, really REALLY pricey though. My poor student wallet.

Hello fellow severly pale person

since it is really hard to find ghostly foundations:

lancome 005 (nice pink undertone) giorgio armani 03 (stays in place longer)

And i agree, nobody has to wear makeup for any occasion, your choice.

[victoriasponge]

1 hour ago, squiddysquid said:

Hello fellow severly pale person

since it is really hard to find ghostly foundations:

lancome 005 (nice pink undertone) giorgio armani 03 (stays in place longer)

The Lancome never suited me but I'll look into the Armani. I've currently got YSL (All Hours in BR10 - Cool Porcelain) and have been matched as 110 in Fenty (suits me better, I found, it's pinker and less 'have a line on your chin to show where the foundation stops'). Would be good to have an alternative though so I'll keep an eye out for 03. Thanks for the recommendations! (Will also tell housemate, though she's Fenty 100 poor lass, nothing ever suits her, I count myself lucky, think she had the Armani before, might see if she's got any left for me to sample). I love the internet for giving me makeup recommendations.

[Iamtheway]

4 hours ago, sta_sha said:

As far as I can tell, pregnancy glow is a myth- I was never glowing, just sweaty from the all day nausea. Hang in there!

”Pregnancy glow” is just something people made up to make pregnant women feel better. It’s totally fine to not feel like your prettiest you while you’re being a superhero growing a whole other person inside your body. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

Weddings are  huge spectrum- I'm 35, and I just went to my first "semi'formal" wedding last year- my family and circle of friends just can't afford to roll like that. However with that said, I totally asked people what would be appropriate, lol... but from what it sounds like, a lot of people probably would have still considered me under dressed.

but my family tends to lean sort of red-necky- my cousin got married and he and all of his groomsmen were in nice jeans and boots, with dress shirts, vests and ties. There may or may not have been cowboy hats involved, I can't remember. When his older sister got married, my sister and I were the candle lighters, and we wore jean skirts, white boots, and white button down shirts. There were definitely cowboy hats involved for the guys at that one, lol.

Most of the weddings I have gone to, Joy's outfit would have been fine. Nice jeans for guys with a dress shirt, or even a polo, would be fine. I always feel out of place when the weddings are discussed here- someone always mentions how under dressed the guests are, and I usually don't see anything wrong with how most of them are dressed... It all depends on what you're used to, that's for sure

[WiseGirl]

@Karma and @Gillyweed regarding Broadway, just look for the big groups of middle or high school children that look like they are on a field trip, because they are, stand by them and viola! You are looking either over dressed or like a chaperone constantly counting kids/trying to survive,  with the bonus of everyone staying away from you (and I'm guessing silently praying they don't end up near us). Bonus: chaperones usually only get a look of pity no clothes judgement. 

Seriously,  if you are in jeans people generally assume tourist with limited suitcase room.

[HarleyQuinn]

On 12/24/2017 at 1:20 PM, freethemall said:

 

But girl, at least brush your hair or put it in a cute bun!

I think "brush your hair" can be  a valid complaint at times but I have an issue with those comments. I have wavy hair, I love my natural waves, but my mother always tells me my hair looks like it needs to be brushed. (and she told me this all the time growing up so I never embraced them and instead damaged my hair from straightening it every day)  It doesn't. It's supposed to be S shaped and I put product in it to define and hold my wavy curls. 

I realize Joy doesn't have textured hair but I  had to bitch about it.  

[freethemall]

39 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I think "brush your hair" can be  a valid complaint at times but I have an issue with those comments. I have wavy hair, I love my natural waves, but my mother always tells me my hair looks like it needs to be brushed. (and she told me this all the time growing up so I never embraced them and instead damaged my hair from straightening it every day)  It doesn't. It's supposed to be S shaped and I put product in it to define and hold my wavy curls. 

I realize Joy doesn't have textured hair but I  had to bitch about it.  

I have curly hair too, so yes I've also gotten those comments. I've also straightened my hair and realized I needed to brush it more than I was used to because it's obvious when straight hair is unbrushed.

 

[TheOneAndOnly]

Ugh. The soundtrack of my life has always been "Brush your hair! Did you brush your hair? Your hair needs to be brushed. Do something about your hair." All day, every day. Naturally frizzy hair means never having a moment of peace. Ever. Well, until adulthood and home ownership and the right to throw people out.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I think "brush your hair" can be  a valid complaint at times but I have an issue with those comments. I have wavy hair, I love my natural waves, but my mother always tells me my hair looks like it needs to be brushed. (and she told me this all the time growing up so I never embraced them and instead damaged my hair from straightening it every day)  It doesn't. It's supposed to be S shaped and I put product in it to define and hold my wavy curls. 

I realize Joy doesn't have textured hair but I  had to bitch about it.  

THIS, I realize it wasn't humid in December in TN but humidity, I don't even bother in the summer time. the proper mix of product and a diffuser are necessary otherwise its a pony tail and yes, that drives my mother nuts because "aren't you a little OLD to do your hair like a teenager"  I've heard that since I was about 30.  

Now my daughter has fine stick straight hair that tangles endlessly, she's 17 and she's particular about her hair, but after any activity, even sitting down to dinner will cause it to get flyaways.  It drives here crazy and her being a teenage girl it is best not to say anything, as you moms of teens are well aware of way. 

Who knows if Joy has texture in her hair, its so long and thick appearing it is hard to tell, all that weight can flatten wavy hair.  I know the longer my hair gets the straighter it gets. 

[Carm_88]

I have wavy hair that is never wavy unless it's up. I straighten it all the time, so when I get my hair cut the hairstylist will always say "Your hair is naturally wavy." Why yes, thank you for telling me that. I never dealt with my hair before. Why do people feel the need to state the obvious? 

My hair is definitely in the category of "looks like it needs a good brushing" when left to it's own devices. Yes, I know it's wavy, no you don't need to tell me. I am the one who fights with it every day.  

[HarryPotterFan]

2 hours ago, TheOneAndOnly said:

Ugh. The soundtrack of my life has always been "Brush your hair! Did you brush your hair? Your hair needs to be brushed. Do something about your hair." All day, every day. Naturally frizzy hair means never having a moment of peace. Ever. Well, until adulthood and home ownership and the right to throw people out.

Same! Then my hair gets more frizzy if I brush it. It has a mind of its own. On good hair days I have no idea what happened.

On 12/22/2017 at 6:06 PM, ElToro said:

Have to chip in here. My mother wore a white, lace dress to my wedding.... I don't even want to start unpicking what was going on in her mind..... 

My grandma almost wore a white dress to my cousin's wedding. My grandma told my cousin about the dress she was going to wear, and my cousin told her no. My grandma listened to her, thankfully. But she had no idea that doing that is a no-no. 

I'm sorry mom did that. Was she trying to get attention or was she not thinking clearly like my grandma? I watched an episode of "Say Yes to the Dress" where a mom was trying on sexy wedding dresses at her daughter's appointment. She wanted to wear one of those to the wedding...that mom was definitely an attention-craving narcissist.

[HereticHick]

I've never understood why all these fundy maidens, with their alleged wonderful homemaking skills, don't alter their closetfull of past bridesmaid dresses and wear them to future weddings.

[HarleyQuinn]

9 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I've never understood why all these fundy maidens, with their alleged wonderful homemaking skills, don't alter their closetfull of past bridesmaid dresses and wear them to future weddings.

No kidding. And the ones like the Duggars had could be worn as every day casual dresses too. (Jill's at least. Jessa and Joy's were fancier so they could work for weddings)

[freethemall]

On 12/25/2017 at 3:35 AM, SorenaJ said:

Joy looks perfectly fine and respectful. If she showed up to my wedding looking like that, she'd be averagely dressed, neither under nor over-dressed. 

You are never required to wear make-up. 

Here people wear yoga pants for everything. Together with a hoodie, it seems pretty standard attire for uni. 

If your standard is that yoga pants and a hoodie are decent daywear outside the home than I understand why you think Joy's outfit is average dressed. 

Let's not forget this was an evening wedding where the bridesmaids wore long formal gowns.