Dillards 32: To VBAC or not to VBAC

[FakePigtails]

Wow, that has to be tough on her both physically and mentally, having to face that she may not be built for the babies she carries. I would bet that coming from her CPM/home birth culture she's been steeped in the idea you won't grow a baby you can't deliver and the general idea that vaginal birth should be possible for anyone.

It will be interesting to find out whether she intended to deliver in the hospital or not as well as how this will affect their family planning. Some women can safely have a lot of c-sections, but it just depends on the person. From the cases I've heard of it sounds like doctors can tell how the uterus is doing from looking at it during each surgery and estimate how dangerous another pregnancy would be.

@amers, there's actually a trend of not doing GD testing now so it's actually possible that that's the case.

[The Wanderer]

10 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

Ok so i'll do this in parts since I had to look back:

Date: me, @SunnySideUp, @gilora, @Penny

Weight: @Daisy0322, @season of life, @Penny

 @Penny is the ultimate winner! 

I was off by three days! But I was only off with the weight by an ounce

[ItsaJjungle]

My firstborn was a 40 hour labor (the first 8 hours were pretty mild, but it was my first so I was on edge). After 24, I wanted to rip everyone's face off. At 40, I was screaming for a c-section (I had gotten an epidural but it only worked on my left leg). There as a doctor and midwife on staff at the hospital, and the doctor said "we don't just hand out c-sections to people, honey." The midwife grabbed her arm, took her outside to the hallway where my sister was waiting, and told the doctor to give me a csection ASAP!! My son weighed he same amount as Samuel! But then I went on to VBAC twice in the next 30 months, babies that were over 10lbs. So it wasn't the size, but the position that most likely required the section. 

I am sad Jill wasn't able to VBAC if it's something she really wanted (it's an awesome experience), but having a safe delivery is so much more important, and I hope she's able to come to terms with that. I also hope that if she is dealing with difficult life circumstances emotionally, that maybe this will ultimately slow her baby-making down. I had three under three and it is sooooooo hard. And I had a stable life! 

[SassyPants]

I never bought the transverse breech story. Nearly 11 pounders do not easily flip...less so with a group of people watching. 

This is basically Izzzy 2.0-

[Joyfully Available]

I know others have already mentioned it but I wonder how many c-sections Silly Jilly will endure before someone stops, refuses or it kills her? The risk of death or severe injury (organ ruptures) goes up with each surgery. I hope she doesn't take multiple gambles & leave it up to Jesus. I don't want to even type this, but I can see Jill romanticizing death by childbirth. True martyrdom in a quiver full woman's mind. 

[Rachel333]

They were fast with the announcement! He was born just over 2 hours ago.

40 hours and a C-section is awful and in addition to the physical toll that can't be easy for her psychologically either.

[marmalade]

32 minutes ago, Molly said:

Wow 40 hours?! Also at 9 pounds 10 oz, what a big baby. It probably came out looking like a tot like Israel 

I have doubts that she counts labor like normal people. She probably counts from when her water breaks, even if she's not having contractions. 

I hope they went to the hospital sooner this time, but if she really labored 40 hours, I reckon she really thought she could VBAC @ home. 

[meee]

How can she be refused a c-section though? If she shows up in labor with x number of c-sections behind her, what would a doctor do, just refuse to touch her and leave her in agony to die in childbirth? I get that more than a certain number isn't ideal, but once she's already in that situation what's left to do?

 

And I agree that GD is a possibility.  I wonder if, next time around (because we know there will be a next time), if she is adequately monitored, she could manage a VBA2C of, say, a 37-week induced 6-pounder.

[MayTheWilberforceBeWithYou]

It looks like she attempted another home birth even after the disaster that was Israel's birth. I would have hoped with Jill's (admittedly inadequate) training as a midwife she would know better by now. 

[Jana814]

I guess congratulations to the Dillard family. I will remember his birthday because today is also my father's birthday 

[Mrs. Figg]

4 minutes ago, meee said:

 

And I agree that GD is a possibility.  I wonder if, next time around (because we know there will be a next time), if she is adequately monitored, she could manage a VBA2C of, say, a 37-week induced 6-pounder.

It's my understanding (from personal experience VBAC x 2) that induction isn't recommended due to the excess strain put on the uterus from the more intense contractions experienced on pitocin. But, my last VBAC was pert near 8 years ago so maybe things have changed, 

[MayTheWilberforceBeWithYou]

4 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I guess congratulations to the Dillard family. I will remember his birthday because today is also my father's birthday 

Happy birthday to him! I'm also going to remember because yesterday was my mother's birthday.

[Joyfully Available]

3 minutes ago, meee said:

How can she be refused a c-section though? If she shows up in labor with x number of c-sections behind her, what would a doctor do, just refuse to touch her and leave her in agony to die in childbirth? I get that more than a certain number isn't ideal, but once she's already in that situation what's left to do?

 

Good question. It makes me wonder. Does anyone know if a doctor can refuse care if they are aware of a repeat patient going against medical advice & pushing boundaries with super high risk involved? For example... if Jilly does this for years & doctors in her area advise numerous times against it but she just keeps showing up for sections, can they refuse to treat because of the risk factor? I mean, if they keep advising death or certain risk are a danger & they don't want to be responsible for an inevitable outcome, what options do they have? That is a small town/community, I'm sure the health providers are well aware of the Duggar beliefs. 

Obviously an extreme scenario but in 15 years...Jill could easily achieve it. 

[fraurosena]

Fuck. 

Now I share a birthday with a Dillard.

 

Glad that mother and baby are apparently doing well. Count me among those who don't think her labors were quite as long as she says. She probably thinks labor has started when she loses her mucus plug. I had my first after 6 hours of labor, counting from the first contraction to birth itself. But if I reckoned labor had started when I lost my mucus plug, that labor would have been 76 hours long!

[merg429]

The other day I was watching an episode of 18 Kids and Counting at the gym and it was the one where Jill and Jana both have their wisdom teeth removed.  Jill and I are the same age and re-watching these episodes when she was 17 reminds me a lot of myself at 17, super emotional, quick to cry,  over the top with everything,  and talking a lot when nervous.  Now when I look at us both at 26 there is no longer a comparison, I do feel sad for her that I had the chance to grow up and she really didn't. 

Hoping for the best for her and the new addition. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Glad Jill and Sammy are okay. 

[ItsaJjungle]

2 minutes ago, Mrs. Figg said:

It's my understanding (from personal experience VBAC x 2) that induction isn't recommended due to the excess strain put on the uterus from the more intense contractions experienced on pitocin. But, my last VBAC was pert near 8 years ago so maybe things have changed, 

Haven't changed...just tried to VBAC my 5th (he would've been a VBA2C) a year and a half ago. Doctor even said she'd break my water if I dilated enough, but I couldn't go past my due date because of GD and previously huge babies. As luck (or not) would have it, it was the first time I didn't dilate at all. Not even a smidge. Doctor said she couldn't do any induction at all. Though they would do a small amount of pitocin if I was already in labor (they did it for my 2nd VBAC when my water broke, and I was having sporadic contraction, but not active labor...that kid was born 1 hour later after the most intense, painful labor ever.) But you have to be monitored really closely!

[freejoy]

JillyMuffin must be in a bad mental health.

Wounds can heal, but this was probably again very traumatic for her. Just saw one of the new counting on episodes where she envies Jessa who just had a quick, "perfect" homebirth and she was continually saying that she hopes for the same kind of smooth birth.

But let's face it: Damn, they make big babies!

[MoonFace]

Arrived by c- section after 40 hours of labor.   Nine pounds, 10 oz, 22 inches long.

[Guest Azby]

22" long

[marmalade]

Already being discussed in the VBAC thread. Mods? 

[MayTheWilberforceBeWithYou]

I saw someone mention earlier in this thread the possibility of Jill deciding enough is enough and going on birth control so that she doesn't risk another complication by getting pregnant and needing yet another C section. Obviously the Duggars are very anti birth control for birth control purposes, but I was wondering, what if one of the girls ended up developing something like PCOS that is mainly treated using birth control pills? Would they still not condone that, or do you think they would let it slide since they're not technically using it as birth control?

[Lyle Lanley]

4 minutes ago, Joyfully Available said:

Good question. It makes me wonder. Does anyone know if a doctor can refuse care if they are aware of a repeat patient going against medical advice & pushing boundaries with super high risk involved? For example... if Jilly does this for years & doctors in her area advise numerous times against it but she just keeps showing up for sections, can they refuse to treat because of the risk factor? I mean, if they keep advising death or certain risk are a danger & they don't want to be responsible for an inevitable outcome, what options do they have? That is a small town/community, I'm sure the health providers are well aware of the Duggar beliefs. 

Obviously an extreme scenario but in 15 years...Jill could easily achieve it. 

If it is an emergency situation and she shows up to a hospital they have no choice but to treat her. However, it wouldn't be a wise move on her part to keep showing up for urgent c-section after c-section. One misstep in that brilliant plan and Jilly Muffin could need a partial hysterectomy or full hysterectomy.

However if she is pregnant (again) they can refuse to take her on as a patient when she's shopping around for ob/gyns or they can drop her as a patient if she refuses to follow their advice and they are uncomfortable with being her physician. There's a reason why ob/gyn insurance premiums are sky high and some ob/gyns can be trigger happy with certain things because they're terrified of a malpractice suit. I imagine the Dullards will be packing up for Central America in no time as well, giving Jilly little time to recover.

I truly believe that Dullard was making sure that Jilly Muffin didn't get pregnant so fast after Izzy so that he could pursue his dream of White Savior in Scary Central America. Shrader has been able to do it with umpteen children, but Esther seems to be more emotionally stable than Jill. Somehow Esther has been able to pull it together. Don't ask me how.

I'm guessing Dullard may make extra sure this time around that #3 never happens or happens a very long time from now. Granted I think he is gone by the time the TLC money runs out. And best for Jill, Izzy, and Sam. I'd say Jill needs some intensive therapy and counseling but good luck. Jill really needs the support of her family and needs to be close by her family. Even if they're a bunch of toxic fundamentalists.

[speller24]

5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

To be entirely fair, Cathy was in extremely poor health at that time. She had to be airlifted to the hospital June 13th of that year - just eight days before the wedding - and reportedly surprised everyone by still being alive when they pulled her off the helicopter. Jill was absolutely correct that they weren't sure she'd be able to be at the wedding or that she'd make it at all. I don't really see an issue with this given the circumstances. It's better to be realistic about that type of situation in my personal opinion rather than sugarcoat everything. 

Fair enough. If you don't know this it makes her seem a bit cold. But knowing that now, that makes sense. It sort of caught me off guard.

[Finduilas]

Samuelito was born on London Pride day. May he poop rainbow.