The Invisible Jinger (and Her Preacher Man Jeremy)

[grandmadugger]

8 hours ago, Kira said:

Ben and Derick have also gone against the "brand" I really don't think JB cares. The Duggars have IBLP friends who wear pants and one of Jessa's "best friends" wears pants, so I don't think JB and Jessa could be that angry about Jinger wearing pants. 

ETA: I hate it when I defend the Duggars. Some of the most the most "modest", skirt wearing fundies wear pants now. Jezebel predicted this a few years ago(I wish I could find our discussion of that article) I think the Duggars are skirts only because it their tv brand. It's one of the thing they're known for, but if the married women wanted to     wear pants the Duggars would  say something like "The married kids  can make their  own  decisions"                     

What have the other two said that go against major points of the Duggar brand?  Jeremy didn't just address pants but all legalistic religions. That's IBLP it's full of legalism and he spoke out against that. That's a direct hit to the Duggar brand. 

[Jinder Roles]

Ok, so the jury's been out on Jeremy for a while for me. I do like that he's been out in the real world, doesn't seem intimidated by JB snd sincerely seems to care about Jinger.

However, he does say a lot of shit that irks me. I feel like his beliefs are toxic in a different way than the Duggars. He's modern, likeable and does well on camera (not to mention he's hot) but he says a lot of shit in his other sermons that doesn't sit well. Plus, he seems utterly convinced that his beliefs are right. I get the vibe that he has strong opinions (not just religious) that he would be unwilling to reconsider. I think he's almost obsessive in his opinions (and Jinger wll have to go along with whatever he says)

[Audrey2]

I've been turning over in my head the comments Jeremy made about wine. 

 

After reading many comments on Jeremy and his family on Free Jinger ever since the courtship was announced, it seems like Jeremy feels very comfortable with his Italian heritage. From what I've observed, drinking a glass of wine with a meal is part of both French culture and Italian culture, just has having a pint of beer (or more- not sure what the German measure is) is something the Irish, British, and Germans are comfortable with. I think because he grew up in the Italian culture, it's not something Jeremy has a problem with, even though his parents are fundie. (Please know, I'm using gross generalizations on culture- each person is different and each family is different.)

 

Religiously, I see something a bit similar here in the states. Again, this is spoken using gross generalizations. Catholics, Lutherans, and Episcopalians don't seem to have problems with people enjoying a glass or two of their favorite alcoholic beverage, while, historically, Baptists, Brethern, and Methodists have been against it. (The Methodists use grape juice for communion. The Women's Christian Temperance Union has many Methodist members as well, although, now, there are Methodists that will have a private glass.)

 

Again, I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone, and realize there are some from the cultures I've mentioned who completely shun all forms of alcohol, and others who feel it's okay to have a glass publicly or privately. 

[VooDooChild]

2 hours ago, 3arrowsandnotcounting said:

Did someone say wine? If you're doing last minute present wrapping may I suggest pouring yourself some wine- every time you lose scissors,sticky tape or the cat jumps on the wrapping paper you take a drink. Thoroughly enjoyable way to wrap gifts. Merry Christmas/happy holidays from down under (Australia)

Or when your dog lies on the present that you are trying to wrap.  What the hell dog?!  He must have known that it was going to his older sissy who misses him and wouldn't mind the dog hair on it.  

As far as hair, make-up, or clothing choices in our house, we do what we want.  Because we're individuals with individual tastes.  And is Jinger wearing an animal print skirt?  You rebel!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

   I really think that sermon has more to do with reassuring his congregation that he won't expect all the women to wear skirts all the time. I also think many of the women might be intimidated/worried of what the pastor's wife thinks of them. Then there are the holier than thou group. My friend's husband decided to become a pastor and went back to school for it, got a Job as a youth pastor at their EV- free church and did not last a year. I consider her a very conservative person, but she hated it because she could not drink a beer without getting crap, and people scrutinized every thing their kids did. 

       People gossip and freak out about stupid things all the time.

My years in an E-Free church just proved to me that churches are nothing more than grown up high school. 

[Carm_88]

I flip flop on Jeremy but honestly, I stick with the despite his outer appearances, despite being out in the world, he still made the "defiling the marriage bed" comment. He might not care if Jinger drinks or wears pants but he does think that homosexuality is a choice and he wants to control a woman's uterus just as much as the rest of the Duggars.

[seasonsoflife]

14 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I flip flop on Jeremy but honestly, I stick with the despite his outer appearances, despite being out in the world, he still made the "defiling the marriage bed" comment. He might not care if Jinger drinks or wears pants but he does think that homosexuality is a choice and he wants to control a woman's uterus just as much as the rest of the Duggars.

Yeah, both him and Derick married into this mess AFTER going to college and being exposed to the world. That makes me wonder more about them than people who were actually raised super fundie.

[Jana814]

8 minutes ago, seasonsoflife said:

Yeah, both him and Derick married into this mess AFTER going to college and being exposed to the world. That makes me wonder more about them than people who were actually raised super fundie.

Exactly what were these two men looking for that they felt being part of the Duggar family would help. 

[immodest_countenance]

 

36 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I flip flop on Jeremy but honestly, I stick with the despite his outer appearances, despite being out in the world, he still made the "defiling the marriage bed" comment. He might not care if Jinger drinks or wears pants but he does think that homosexuality is a choice and he wants to control a woman's uterus just as much as the rest of the Duggars.

But to be honest, those beliefs are shared by a huge percentage of evangelical christians in the United States. Not trying to say these beliefs AREN'T problematic, but I think there needs to be a distinction between the criticism for the duggar's beliefs and the criticism of evangelical christianity in the US as a whole. Many (including the duggars) try to say their critics are just anti-christian and criticize the duggar's simply because they are christian family on tv. This is NOT the case. The duggars are NOT normal christians, nor should they be representing them. The duggar's have a warped, fundamentalist, toxic version a christianity created by a perverted, power-hungry man. 

So in the case of Jeremy, yes he has some bad, problematic beliefs. They are not good; but the jury is still out on how "dugger-fied" he will be. Not thinking pants or a glass of wine are the first steps to whore-ville is a pretty good sign. Will he be kind and supportive of Jinger; will he let his future daughters go to college; will he encourage them women in his life to become more than just helpmeets to the men in their lives. These are the deciding factors for me at least. 

[DaniLouisiana]

There is a male in my family that tells me to dress-Kiddo. Its just so I don't look ridiculous.  Even if hubs says "that looks okay on you" , I'll check with Kiddo to be sure I don't look like an idiot. However, if a male in my family tried to tell me to wear dresses/skirts all of the time, I would tell him, "You first, Buddy!"

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, Kira said:

.Jessa won't care if Jinger wears pants. I don't think JB would care either(I don't think he's bothered by Derick's hair) I think all of the Duggar women will wear pants one day(I wouldn't be surprised if the married women wear pants in private). I could see it becoming a storyline. It's interesting that most fundies wear pants nowadays. How many of the ones we follow are skirts only in 2016?The Duggars have pants wearing fundie friends like Laura D, who works for IBLP. 

How can anyone be happy about Jinger wearing pants or think this is an FU to the Duggars after reading that Jeremy quote?  

ETA: Remember that one of their sons courted a pants wearing girl. The Duggars posted lots of photos of Marjorie in pants

 

I've wondered for a while now if Boob would have to "sacrifice" a couple kids to the world because he knows he can't support all 19 of them, their spouses and their children.  Jinger and Jeremy will be able to take care of themselves (hopefully ) I think Joy if she marries Austin will have the rock farm ranch what ever that place is to support them. Boob has 4 married kids and 3 of them are fully dependent on him for their financial support, of the 3 dependents that is 3 more in-laws and almost 8 grand-kids to support. The TLC money isn't what it used to be and if it is being split between the Dullards, Seawalds, & the adult single kids like it should have been that wouldn't be enough to support all the families.  Smugger isn't working at all so who is taking care of him and his his 4 kids and his poor long suffering wife? 

Boob still has what 6 or 7 kids to put in braces how many of them still need wisdom teeth out I know from VERY recent experience that is costs around $1800 to have wisdom teeth surgically removed, and braces can rage anywhere from $3600 to $5500 a mouth You are talking over $60k in just braces for all the kids, and these fools don't have any insurance.  How much did Jillymuffins c/section cost? Jessa's blood transfusion. Those 2 events there probably cost close to what they made from TLC that year.  While he may have money it isn't going to last long with all those kids. 

[halcionne]

15 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Depends for me. The longer my hair is and the higher the humidity the more this happens to me.  My diffuser broke so I air dry my hair now and if I don't get my mouse/frizzes/leave in conditioner combo just right my hair can look crunchy.  I need a hair cut  and a new hair dryer but haven't had time for the cut and the dryer I want is really expensive so I'm waiting until after the holidays to buy it.  Jinger is youg and doesn't know better yet, she'll get the hang of her hair pretty quick. 

On top of this, she's in a new climate and her hair may behave differently than it did in Tontitown. Laredo is much hotter and muggier in summer, and doesn't get very dry, dewpoint-wise, at all in winter. Dewpoint is key, in my experience. Supposedly most people's hair tends to look its best/be most manageable at comfortable dewpoints and go wonky when it's too dry or humid out. My crazy hair loves low dews and looks stupid at "comfortable" dewpoints, which is all we have in the Bay Area. #firstworldproblems

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, halcionne said:

On top of this, she's in a new climate and her hair may behave differently than it did in Tontitown

So much yes here! I'm originally from the coast of VA (Virginia Beach area). There, my hair is wavy/curly...I have ringlet curls all the way down on waist-length hair. I moved to the desert and my hair suddenly became stick straight. To get my curl/wave back, I have to use all sorts of moisturizing conditioners and other products. 

[seraaa]

16 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

This is something that pisses me off.  It is womens fault that men cant control themselves. bull shit, it is a mans fault, and it is societies for allowing men to get away with it for centuries.  Men CAN control themselves, I've taught my 19 year old son that it is HIS job to keep it in his pants, and that girls/women aren't around for his sexual pleasure, the feelings must be mutual and he must have permission and must give permission as well consent is a two way street. he's a horny 19 year old boy and he can figure this out, because he was taught right. 

Bless you. I think it's important to talk about what sexual objectification actually is  (for me, namely, when you instrumentalise someone's body purely for your own sexual gratification, without recognising that they are also a full human being)*

 Radical idea: people deserve to be treated with respect regardless of how they are dressed. Your respectful conduct towards someone shouldn't be contingent upon whether their skirt hits mid-thigh or skims the floor. 

I know that they are trying to ward off lustful thoughts, but those can (and do)  happen whether someone is fully covered or not.

Is an inevitable and spontaneous recognition or acknowledgement that somebody is attractive considered a sin? Where is the line drawn?

*unless it's understood that that kind of interaction is ok, but consent is again the key thing, here.

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

This is not just fundie marriages that spouses live in ways that make their other halves happy. If I or my husband want to do something but it would really disrupt the harmony of the marriage, we compromise. That's just how marriage works. You generally don't marry people you have opposing views to or you're gonna end up really unhappy.

In fundieville you generally marry a stranger, so...

[calimojo]

6 hours ago, seasonsoflife said:

Yeah, both him and Derick married into this mess AFTER going to college and being exposed to the world. That makes me wonder more about them than people who were actually raised super fundie.

This is a point I have made many times also.  Despite having some exposure to the world and education,  these men chose to become aligned with the Duggars.  Now, I will give Derick some credit here, in that he hooked up with them prior to the scandals.  And I could see that if he felt his passion was to serve in missions, that hooking up with a gravy train like the Duggars might have sense. 

 

But in Jeremy's case,  he came to this circus after all the scandals.  He knows that JB thinks it is normal for brothers to molest sisters and that lots of their friends have had this happen.  He knows that they didn't get help for their daughters.  He knows about their toxic beliefs where became more widely known after the scandals.  He knows that Josh cheated, spectacularly and further damaged the brand.  He seems smart enough to know that the duggars are likely at a point of diminishing returns in terms of their popularity and money from shows, and appearances.  So,  what brought him to the mess?  Did he really meet Ben and form a meaningful friendship with the man-child?  ( not dissing Ben, but he is quite a bit younger than Jeremy and not all that mature yet).  Did he really fall for Jinger despite everything he had to have known?  Did he perhaps see himself as her rescuer?  Jinger seems like a sweet woman, and is very pretty.  Perhaps he did meet her, and knowing about her insane family felt that he could do well by her.  Or,  did he see a chance to boost his own profile in the uber conservative circles that he associates with? 

 

I would love to think that Jeremy had some romantic notion of whisking the sweet, if naive and sheltered Jinger away from the madness, but you don't live to over 50, without a dash of realism.  And it is this dash of realism that tells me Jeremy saw other benefits to joining the Duggar Clan.  This doesn't mean that he doesn't really care for Jinger, but I think it worked out awfully well for him that there just happened to be a couple of pretty unmarried sisters that he could get to know. 

 

[Rachel333]

4 hours ago, feministxtian said:

So much yes here! I'm originally from the coast of VA (Virginia Beach area). There, my hair is wavy/curly...I have ringlet curls all the way down on waist-length hair. I moved to the desert and my hair suddenly became stick straight. To get my curl/wave back, I have to use all sorts of moisturizing conditioners and other products. 

I grew up in humid Arkansas and I was extremely surprised how much easier my hair was to deal with when I went on a trip to South Dakota. My hair dried so quickly while it took hours to air dry completely in Arkansas, and my hair would actually stay straight rather than going into fuzzy ringlets all over.

I don't know what the difference would be between Arkansas and Laredo. Is it very humid down there?

[Vex]

I don't think Jeremy is any better than the rest of them. He's okay with pants and wine. So what? What are pants and wine compared to believing homosexuality is a choice and that men should control a woman's reproductive organs? He's not going to gradually drift away from his fundie roots, everything we've seen says he's doubling down on it by marrying the ultimate fundie trophy wife.

Jeremy has been out in the world. He's met plenty of wine-drinking, pants-wearing women who are smart, funny and beautiful. Educated and self-reliant. He chose a non-drinker who is skirts only, doesn't believe in dating, sheltered, meek, submissive and abides by Gothard beauty standards. That, plus ditching his worldly lifestyle for the fundie preacher gig points to him becoming MORE fundie, not less.

[outtheblue]

16 hours ago, immodest_countenance said:

 

But to be honest, those beliefs are shared by a huge percentage of evangelical christians in the United States. Not trying to say these beliefs AREN'T problematic, but I think there needs to be a distinction between the criticism for the duggar's beliefs and the criticism of evangelical christianity in the US as a whole. Many (including the duggars) try to say their critics are just anti-christian and criticize the duggar's simply because they are christian family on tv. This is NOT the case. The duggars are NOT normal christians, nor should they be representing them. The duggar's have a warped, fundamentalist, toxic version a christianity created by a perverted, power-hungry man. 

So in the case of Jeremy, yes he has some bad, problematic beliefs. They are not good; but the jury is still out on how "dugger-fied" he will be. Not thinking pants or a glass of wine are the first steps to whore-ville is a pretty good sign. Will he be kind and supportive of Jinger; will he let his future daughters go to college; will he encourage them women in his life to become more than just helpmeets to the men in their lives. These are the deciding factors for me at least. 

Agreed 100%. Growing up evangelical, I can tell you his beliefs to the majority of the Christian church are not extreme at all. (But that does not mean they're not wrong, obviously). Most evangelical Christians believe in keeping the marriage bed pure, homosexuality is a choice and sin, etc. The only abnormal thing I've heard him say is that wine is OK. He just seems like another run-of-the-mill evangelical pastor to me, not someone who is Duggarfied (yet). Still, it makes me wonder why he sought out a Duggar to be his perfect idea of a wife. Fame? Growing a bigger congregation?

[Scribber]

Agreed 100%. Growing up evangelical, I can tell you his beliefs to the majority of the Christian church are not extreme at all. (But that does not mean they're not wrong, obviously). Most evangelical Christians believe in keeping the marriage bed pure, homosexuality is a choice and sin, etc. The only abnormal thing I've heard him say is that wine is OK. He just seems like another run-of-the-mill evangelical pastor to me, not someone who is Duggarfied (yet). Still, it makes me wonder why he sought out a Duggar to be his perfect idea of a wife. Fame? Growing a bigger congregation?

Yep, he seems like the average evangelical pastor to me. (And I worked for an evangelical mega church for a long time... I have met/interacted more of this type than I care to admit.)

For me what's squicky about Jeremy is what his intentions with Jinger might be. I am thinking it's growing his congregation, but who knows?

I don't see him as nasty Fundie as the Duggars. (I don't agree with 90% of the crap he says - but that goes for the church as a whole too.) sure those beliefs are dangerous, but so is about 1/2 of our society right now

I truly just wonder what his endgame is.

[Kira]

On 12/24/2016 at 9:38 AM, grandmadugger said:

What have the other two said that go against major points of the Duggar brand?  Jeremy didn't just address pants but all legalistic religions. That's IBLP it's full of legalism and he spoke out against that. That's a direct hit to the Duggar brand. 

Ben: music, anti Trump political statement(and other political and religious statements he's made)

Derick: his hair, shorts(the Duggar boys started wearing shorts after Ben and Derick came in the picture)

I don't think any of these things matter, including Jeremy's statements about pants and wine. They still have awful, dangerous beliefs. Are we going to ignore that Jeremy quote(I can't seem to post it)?

I just think the Duggar women will eventually wear pants. 

@allthegoodnamesrgone I'm one of those people who doesn't believe JB is supporting the married couples. I think we underestimate how much TLC pays them. I'm not saying they make Kardashian money, but I think they're fine. If things get bad Derick can use his accounting degree, Ben is getting a degree in Theology. Also do we know for sure that Josh isn't working(I thought he was working at a car lot) or that the Duggars don't have insurance? 

[Kira]

 " Jeremy isn't as bad as the Duggars. He only believes gays should be cured, secularism causes school shooting and the way women dress can make men do bad things"

[calimojo]

Kira,  I do think they make adequate money from the show, especially when you consider that they likely don't have to pay rent, since they live in homes owned by JB.  As to Josh, I don't think he has a used car lot, I think that he has some cars on patch of grass alongside the road.  He may have made good money when he was employed in Washington DC.  And he had money from the show, and we know that JB has some various businesses.  Real estate, credit card processing businesses.  Sometime in the past, someone put together all the various and sundry businesses registered to JB Duggar, M Duggar and Josh.  IIRC, they had their hands in a lot of  different things. 

 

So, I think they have money trickling, or maybe even rolling in from various ventures.  I do however think, that JB controls the majority of the money.  I think he sees the money from the show as 'family business'.  He may even be acting as the agent or manager for the Counting On 'stars'.  And if he is,  I feel pretty confident that he would have taken a large cut for his efforts. 

I don't think the adult kids, so far,  really see themselves as separate from the family.  We know that Jessa is at the TTH a ton,  we know that Jill and Derick are living adjacent to the compound.  We assume that Josh, et al, are living there or near by.  They still consult JB before making big decisions,  they have most definitely not lived out the 'leave and cleave' philosophy that they espoused. 

 

Perhaps Jinger and Jeremy will live more separately, for a time, but I really think that eventually Jeremy will be persuaded to live in Arkansas and perhaps plant a church there, maybe with Ben.  And God only knows what Derick and Jill will do.  He is a freak and has no direction and possibly no ethics, married to a woman with no spine or maturity. 

[Adrienne83]

On 12/21/2016 at 1:15 PM, Pasta said:

Maybe they don't have heat in his apartment. If the guy I marry makes a video for my birthday instead of saying it to my face, I'd be so pissed off. Way to not make the birthday special.

I hope Jana gets her Brandon Keilen because it seems he's the best fundie husband so far. 

I'm not a fan of Brandon. I know we only see what they show us on TV. But, I defiantly don't like what I see.

[Pasta]

2 hours ago, Adrienne83 said:

I'm not a fan of Brandon. I know we only see what they show us on TV. But, I defiantly don't like what I see.

I was thinking romantically speaking. I think the whole waiting five years to make Michaela his wife was stupid but to each his own. Chad might be better but they both come off as controlling to me.