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Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation


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older than allosaurs

"In order to focus completely on the Lord and the life work God has given him, Bill never married. He views each day as an exciting race to see how much can be accomplished to advance God’s kingdom."  from iblp.org

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Gil Bates and the rest of the board needs to see some jail time too for covering up abuse. Can people now stop trying to act like the Bates aren't as bad as the Duggars? Pretty please? I do think

I read most of the actual lawsuit just now, and in addition to the various claims of sexual abuse there is portrayal of Gothard's views on adoption.  I am speechless.    He says that adopted chil

Gothard says God is his witness he did nothing wrong. If you dare to say that after all this comes out, you don't even believe in the existence of God. Because if you did, you would look for a huge ro

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Four is Enough
12 hours ago, Et Moi said:

Homeschoolers Anonymous has the full lawsuit. It's bad. Really bad. And yes, actual nonconsensual sexual intercourse by Gothard is alleged.

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/01/06/amended-lawsuit-against-bill-gothard-text/

I read the entire thing, and the amendments by GotHard. In the end, he is STILL asking to be held accountable to "Christian arbitration."  Yeah. We know all about your "christian behavior." NO THANK YOU.

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molecule

I love how in his deposition, Gothard tried to throw the board under the bus by saying that they were liquidating headquarters and fleeing to the state of Texas against his wishes.

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apple1
9 minutes ago, ElegantMajesticPearls said:

Anyone have an explanation why the women went the civil suit route rather than criminal charges? Is it possible criminal charges could be brought against Gothard and his crew?

(Again, I am not a lawyer - lawyers feel free to correct any errors).

Criminal charges must be brought by (as applicable) either the district attorney or the federal attorney - as appropriate, with the involvement of a grand jury to determine whether there is appropriate evidence for the criminal charges - in the applicable location. Such district or federal attorneys may ask victims if they are will to "press charges" which more or less means being willing to provide legal testimony as to the commission of the applicable crime(s), but still, the private individual is not capable of bringing criminal charges without the district or federal attorney doing so. Criminal charges can result in incarceration and/or fines paid to the applicable government. Statutes of limitations generally apply to criminal charges.

 Private individuals or groups of individuals can file civil suits. Successful civil suits can result in financial judgments for the plaintiff(s). Statutes of limitations may not affect civil suits.

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hoipolloi
Anyone have an explanation why the women went the civil suit route rather than criminal charges? Is it possible criminal charges could be brought against Gothard and his crew?

IANAL either, but standards of proof are not as stringent in a civil case as they would be in a criminal case.

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19 cats and counting

Gawker picked up the story.  

http://gawker.com/lawsuit-ten-women-charge-duggar-homeschool-leader-with-1751507518?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=thursdayAM

Question about the board of directors?  What exactly is their role and how responsible are they for the wrongdoings of a leader?  

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st4rfl33t
1 hour ago, SledCat said:

There was also a persistent comment going around the interwebs that Gothard wanted to get married as a much older man (in his 60s) to a much younger assistant (in her 20s), but his father disapproved.


One such example in the comments section here

That instance was mentioned in the suit.

But you already knew that.

Edited by st4rfl33t
someone gave the answer already.
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Whoosh

 

Anyone have an explanation why the women went the civil suit route rather than criminal charges? Is it possible criminal charges could be brought against Gothard and his crew?

I know little in terms of answering your question other than what has been said.  One thing I will expand on is Apple1's point that in a criminal case, the sentence is typically most focused on punishment of the defendant (although there may be an order to make some type of restitution to the victims).  In a civil case, the plaintiffs are recovering for the harm and damages they have suffered.  So, for a hypothetical example, suppose the act of the defendant leaves a person unable to work and in need of expensive medical treatments.  A criminal case would mainly put that defendant behind bars whereas a civil case aims to make the plaintiffs whole. 

Edited by Whoosh
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6 minutes ago, st4rfl33t said:

That instance was mentioned in the suit.

Is that the same instance? In the one mentioned in the suit she is the one who kept turning down his advances, only to discover later that he'd asked the board permission to marry her and they refused permission. Who knows how many young women he tried to seduce into marriage only to have the board put the kibosh on it because of image.

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Whoosh
17 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Gawker picked up the story.  

http://gawker.com/lawsuit-ten-women-charge-duggar-homeschool-leader-with-1751507518?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=thursdayAM

Question about the board of directors?  What exactly is their role and how responsible are they for the wrongdoings of a leader?  

The actual complaint answers this much better than I can.  I am providing a link to the complaint.  It is quite long, but also very repetitive and much of this type of information appears in the first few pages.  Specifically, there is a pretty good summary of this issue can be found in the description of The Parties.  This section starts on page 2 of the complaint and the defendants are discussed in a brief manner in points 14-16 on page 5.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/iblpamendedcomplaintrev-c010616.pdf

Quick and dirty answer - the board of directors of anything is charged with oversight of operations, etc and one of their primary jobs is to call out or reign in leaders who have gone (or started astray) or are running amok.  Apple's board of directors, for example, would be responsible for preventing the leadership of Apple from acting in a manner that would be in opposition to the interests of the shareholders.  When one is talking about a church, it is more complex and the responsibilities are greater. *The part about Apple is my best understanding, it may not be entirely accurate but should give some idea of the role of a board of directors in general terms.

7 minutes ago, Et Moi said:

Is that the same instance? In the one mentioned in the suit she is the one who kept turning down his advances, only to discover later that he'd asked the board permission to marry her and they refused permission. Who knows how many young women he tried to seduce into marriage only to have the board put the kibosh on it because of image.

This is consistent with the instance in the suit.

Edited by Whoosh
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2xx1xy1JD

Not entirely surprising, but still shocking (if that makes sense).  These allegations go much further than the previous ones.  No one can brush this away as an older naive guy just playing footsie with the interns (but not kissing, of course).

Sadly, it really sounds like these poor girls were deliberately targeted  - he knew that they were already vulnerable, worked to make them even more vulnerable, and then knew that he could abuse them himself and get away with it.

I wish that the Statute of Limitations wasn't an issue and he could face the consequences for everything that he's done.  In the circumstances, there was a reason for the delay.  These young women were basically in a cult, deprived of much of their contact with the outside world and any means of disobeying "authority".  He knew that, and had actually engineered their circumstances.  They wouldn't have had the ability to come forward previously, as individuals, in the face of shame and powerlessness and a culture where they would not be believed.  They couldn't realistically proceed until they realized that there were many victims, and that they could come forward as a group.

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Four is Enough

I wish they all would come forward and squash the everloving hell out of that cult.

From the statement, one can absolutely tell that this is NOT any kind of church, or even a churchly body. It was a cult, founded on one man, and to some extent, everyone who joined got sucked into his madness. Of course, the men took it hook, line, and sinker, they were coming off on top because God. They were the masters of their homes, because God. All they had to do was  sell wait, donate their children to GotHard, to be his lackeys, in the case of boys, and his playthings, in the case of girls. 

It makes me cringe when, in his affidavit, GotHard calls the women who accused him "ladies". His constant use of dismissive language makes me know that he is not repentant in the slightest. (just sorry he was caught.) He still thinks he did nothing wrong, and his removal from IBLP is an affront. 

 

It sickens me to read this. More than I can say.

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FaithAndReason
6 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I just read thru the law suit & I was so horrified. It explains a lot about Josh.

Wow. And it also sounds like when M&JB went to him about Josh, he advised them to not report it until the statutes of limitations was up.

And what makes me sicker about this, is that Gill Bates is up to his earlobes in this mess. He knew it all; all the complaints, the sham investigation, the creep that Gothard is. It may take years, but this organization is going to blow to pieces, one day.

And the adoption thing! I am so surprised that JB&M and Jessa so willfully are disobeying Gothard's teachings on this matter, after towing the Gothard line to the max all these years.

 

 JB, M and Jessa aren't willfully disobeying Gothard's teaching. They have never ACTUALLY adopted anyone. They talk a big game about adopting because the TV watching public asks "why don't you adopt, if you love/want so many children?" They would lose many non-fundie fans if they spoke the truth about their views on adoption on TV. They are playing their PR game to it's highest level in regards to the adoption issue.

I have never understood why so many people believed any of the Duggars when they claimed they were going to adopt. It's a deception in order to keep their fan base. 

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notfundy
1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

"In order to focus completely on the Lord and the life work God has given him, Bill never married. He views each day as an exciting race to see how much can be accomplished to advance God’s kingdom."  from iblp.org

Thanks so much for the explanation, @older than allosaurs.

Pukeworthy explanation from iblp, though..    

<gack>

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libriatrix
4 hours ago, notfundy said:

Does anyone have a thought on why Gothard never married?  He didn't right, if Wikipedia is correct.

It's rather odd, that's all, for a person with his belief system to never marry.  In men of his age/generation, I often make the assumption (could be wrong, I know) that it's because they're gay and just haven't come out.   In his case, it does seem there is a perverse attraction to young women/girls.    

Just odd.  Am I off base on evening wondering about this?   I don't, by the way, think it's "odd" for people not to marry (in general).    I have friends, relatives who have chosen not do for a myriad of different reasons. 

Just that in his case, the union between "one man and one woman" seems so important; I can't figure out why he did not enter into such a union.

????   

I don't think you are off base at all. Given that he built his ENTIRE organization on strictly dictating how a husband and wife should treat each other and how to raise children, I think it's incredibly bizarre that he never married and a huge red flag. 

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Cleopatra7

I alway assumed that Gothard never married because it was more convenient for him to be in a position of power and authority in which he had access to a revolving door of pretty, naive, young women. Getting married would mean that his wife would age along with him, and I don't think he wants an equal in terms of age or intellect. The young women come and go, and that's how he liked it.

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formergothardite

I don't think he is gay, I think he didn't want a real adult relationship that marriage to someone who was his equal would entail. He like the power that came with grooming and harassing sheltered teen girls and young women. He liked manipulating these girls and young women. It was all about control with him. 

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Whoosh

Based on the complaint, he seems to at least have some interest in girls/young women.  What I find a bit odd is that what @Cleopatra7 makes perfect sense to me - except I would have thought he might try to marry young (think JB and Michelle).  At that time, he might not have had a position of power and authority and also might not have realized he would always prefer young women.  I do still agree with what Cleopatra7 said, but this one detail makes me wonder.  Of course, someone said his father prohibited at least one marriage at a younger age.  Anyway, anyone have a thought on that?

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Palimpsest

Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole amended complaint yet.  I keep needing to take breaks because I want to throw up.  As someone else said, the civil lawsuit isn't a surprise to those of us who have watched all this unfold. 

Someone asked above - Gibbs III filed an injunction few months ago to try to stop IBLP from liquidating assets in Illinois, but I didn't follow through on how that turned out.  They were clearly trying to take the money and run it out of state before the case went to trial.  Stinkers!

In the amended complaint, the accusation of rape is new.  It seems to me that they may have had more witnesses come forward.  The toxic atmosphere and institutionalized culture of sexual abuse pervading IBLP doesn't surprise me at all.  It goes way back to the Steve Gothard scandal.  I'll also add that people can be raped with objects, it doesn't have to be piv.

If you are new to all this, I'd really recommend reading Recovering Grace and some of the older Gothard threads here on FJ before assuming that any of these accusations are overblown. 

And, yes.  Do not doubt that Gothard/IBLP has ties to "mainstream" conservative politicians.

I've never thought Gothard was gay.  He's a serial molester and possible rapist who preys on vulnerable youth and gets off on power.  It's possible that he might not be fussy about the gender of his victims, but so far they all seem to be female.

 

 

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libriatrix
1 hour ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I alway assumed that Gothard never married because it was more convenient for him to be in a position of power and authority in which he had access to a revolving door of pretty, naive, young women. Getting married would mean that his wife would age along with him, and I don't think he wants an equal in terms of age or intellect. The young women come and go, and that's how he liked it.

This is exactly what I meant by a huge red flag. 

The fact that he's so willing to tell everyone that everything of value in life depends on being a good husband/wife and raising children well and then not do any of it himself should have alerted a lot more people to the fact that he wasn't at all interested in practicing what he preached.

 

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iknowright
2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I wish they all would come forward and squash the everloving hell out of that cult.

From the statement, one can absolutely tell that this is NOT any kind of church, or even a churchly body. It was a cult, founded on one man, and to some extent, everyone who joined got sucked into his madness. Of course, the men took it hook, line, and sinker, they were coming off on top because God. They were the masters of their homes, because God. All they had to do was  sell wait, donate their children to GotHard, to be his lackeys, in the case of boys, and his playthings, in the case of girls. 

It makes me cringe when, in his affidavit, GotHard calls the women who accused him "ladies". His constant use of dismissive language makes me know that he is not repentant in the slightest. (just sorry he was caught.) He still thinks he did nothing wrong, and his removal from IBLP is an affront. 

 

It sickens me to read this. More than I can say.

I understand how you feel.  But, if you really study and investigate cults and their history, no one joins a cult...they join movements because it gives them purpose and a hope of "making things right" they feel are wrong - and that can be extremism in any form be it liberal or conservative.  

I hope there is justice done for these women.  But even if this cult disintegrates (and it never will entirely - shoot there are still people who are STILL in denial from People's Temple), people are not FORCED to join cults.  Yes, innocent victims pay the high price of those they depend on who join dangerous cults, but that is what happens when slowly, but surely you lose your God-given identity and hand it over to another human.  

The good news is that the red flags that will set off will help scare some who may have considered ATI/IBLP and did not know the background.  

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Cleopatra7
1 hour ago, Whoosh said:

Based on the complaint, he seems to at least have some interest in girls/young women.  What I find a bit odd is that what @Cleopatra7 makes perfect sense to me - except I would have thought he might try to marry young (think JB and Michelle).  At that time, he might not have had a position of power and authority and also might not have realized he would always prefer young women.  I do still agree with what Cleopatra7 said, but this one detail makes me wonder.  Of course, someone said his father prohibited at least one marriage at a younger age.  Anyway, anyone have a thought on that?

I think Gothard has always been in a position of power, at least in his "public ministry." He first began advising at risk youth, which is already an authority position, even if it's relatively low level. I don't know much about this aspect of Gothard's life, but assuming he was mostly around teenage males, I doubt his fetishes would have had much of a reason to come out. He seems opportunistic but only around certain types (ie young women with blonde wavy hair). When he began IBLP, he was marketing himself as a Christian guru who would ensure that teens wouldn't rebel. I don't think there were ever any checks and balances on his power.

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formergothardite
3 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Question about the board of directors?  What exactly is their role and how responsible are they for the wrongdoings of a leader?  

This question is answered really well on Discovering Grace. Alfred keeps rambling on nonsensically about the lawsuit(it doesn't appear that he has read it) and a lawyer shows up and explains to him that this lawsuit really isn't about things that happened 20 years ago with Bill Gothard, the lawsuit is about the actions of the BoD and Bill in the last couple of years in regards to covering up abuse. 

"The primary legal allegations are actually for negligent and intentional emotional distress arising from IBLP and Gothard’s public statements issued in 2014 denying that any illegal/criminal or sexual conduct took place. Most laypersons and the press are focusing on all the juicy details, some of which took place a long time ago, but the primary legal arguments being made to the court regards conduct that undisputably took place in 2014, not 20 years ago. "

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1618

Alfred, of course, is still saying awful stuff like this:

"One thing we know for sure . . . one person’s “assault” is another person’s “touches of affirmation”, completely acceptable. "

Edited by formergothardite
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