Tori Bates Courtship- Part 2

[nolongerIFBx]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 0:39 PM, nausicaa said:

I've heard the expectation is to be married by senior year at BYU, and there is a whole section of student housing devoted to married couples. 

I know someone at Liberty now who says the girls all plan on getting engaged by junior year, senior year at the latest. 

I think at those colleges--if they're anything like HAC--chaperones don't have to be parents or siblings. There are group dates and banquets with faulty members present or a faculty member can be asked to chaperone something smaller.

[Exjw2015deed]

Idk if this has been posted, but tori really looks like a brunette Erin. 

[Alicja]

Aww, Bobby's cute in that dorky way. I like it.

[vienna]

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 3:06 PM, formergothardite said:

In all their quiet ways, the Duggars have shown more tiny signs of resistance than the Bates have. 

That sounds interesting. What kind of signs of resistance have you noticed? 

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, vienna said:

That sounds interesting. What kind of signs of resistance have you noticed? 

Jessa is listening to rap music (not happily by the expression on her face, though, but still she is doing it and not immediately flipping out over the evil, so that's something). That's actually a core-ish conviction for IBLP I think. I know it is for a lot of Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (is it IFB or IBF, by the way?) that are cut from the same kind of cloth as IBLP.

And they're all sullen. I know it makes them less likeable but its hard to deny it flies in the face of their J.O.Y./pleasing countenance training.

[HermioneSparrow]

So Jessa is showing signs of resistance by listening to CHRISTIAN rap (that she probably doesn't even like but she listens cause she has to be submissive to her hubs) but Alyssa's choices are nothing...? Lmao at the double standard here.

Btw I don't think there's much indication of ANY of them drifting from the cult but come on stop the hypocrisy, it seems even personal.

[19 cats and counting]

From the looks on her face, Jessa had the same reaction to Benye as we did.

What happened behind the scenes when Benye told Jessa he wanted to rap is anyone's guess as we didn't see it.  But he has a history of overpowering her in a stupid way because he's her headship and his word is final.  Example #1-- naming a kid Spurgeon.

[season of life]

The Duggars can be very awkward and very judgemental. Jessa did not want to be in that booth or with Flame's wife. She did it for the show and Ben probably nudged her on. Jill moved away, but she grifts and has not done anything significant for the community except to paint them as dangerous criminals. She's also probably coming back to stay. Jinger is marrying a wannabe pastor who probably thinks gay people can be "cured". None of these people are moving away from fundamentalism.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, HermioneSparrow said:

So Jessa is showing signs of resistance by listening to CHRISTIAN rap (that she probably doesn't even like but she listens cause she has to be submissive to her hubs) but Alyssa's choices are nothing...? Lmao at the double standard here.

Btw I don't think there's much indication of ANY of them drifting from the cult but come on stop the hypocrisy, it seems even personal.

I mean like if I understand IBLP correctly not listening to modern music is a significantly more important conviction than wearing pants (which like a ton of IBLP people do on the regular). So it isn't so much hypocrisy as saying like if anyone is showing signs of rebellion (and I tend to think none of them are, but I mean if I had to pick one) violating the prohibition on rap music is more rebellious/out of line with IBLP than putting on pants.

[HermioneSparrow]

2 hours ago, season of life said:

The Duggars can be very awkward and very judgemental. Jessa did not want to be in that booth or with Flame's wife. She did it for the show and Ben probably nudged her on. Jill moved away, but she grifts and has not done anything significant for the community except to paint them as dangerous criminals. She's also probably coming back to stay. Jinger is marrying a wannabe pastor who probably thinks gay people can be "cured". None of these people are moving away from fundamentalism.

THANK YOU!!!!!

It's annoying the whole "z person is moving away from fundamentalism but x person is not" and viceversa. I can't see any real sign of them changing their beliefs. Same people, different package. Let's not compare unless one of them really changes, it doesn't have to be a scape a la Jeub or Pennington, there's plenty of people leaving fundamentalism to be regular christians without making a fuss but Jessa the supposed strong willed duggar is doing what her headship says to a T and Alyssa the pants wearer closed her insta account listing criticism of the "lifestyle she choose" as one of the reasons. Please, we need to be realistic! We all want them to leave the cult but that's not happening yet.

[CreationMuseumCurator]

15 hours ago, Alicja said:

Aww, Bobby's cute in that dorky way. I like it.

I think he's cute, too, but it weirds me out. I have similar taste in men to the Bates girls. Judging by looks alone, my husband could have been any of theirs (if not for his ~sinful lifestyle~).

[QuiverDance]

None of them are moving away from fundamentalism so long as it continues to butter their collective bread.

[OrchidBlossom]

16 hours ago, HermioneSparrow said:

THANK YOU!!!!!

It's annoying the whole "z person is moving away from fundamentalism but x person is not" and viceversa. I can't see any real sign of them changing their beliefs. Same people, different package. Let's not compare unless one of them really changes, it doesn't have to be a scape a la Jeub or Pennington, there's plenty of people leaving fundamentalism to be regular christians without making a fuss but Jessa the supposed strong willed duggar is doing what her headship says to a T and Alyssa the pants wearer closed her insta account listing criticism of the "lifestyle she choose" as one of the reasons. Please, we need to be realistic! We all want them to leave the cult but that's not happening yet.

To be clear, i don't disagree with you that none of them are moving away from the cult. It is just my understanding that between "listening to heathen music" and "wearing pants", Jessa's choices (if we can call them that, because as you have pointed out Bin the headship clearly pushed it on her) are closer to rebellion by the cult's standards than Alyssa's choices (which I also don't think are choices so much as her headship telling her to look more "normal" because of the Webster's political needs).

[HermioneSparrow]

1 hour ago, OrchidBlossom said:

To be clear, i don't disagree with you that none of them are moving away from the cult. It is just my understanding that between "listening to heathen music" and "wearing pants", Jessa's choices (if we can call them that, because as you have pointed out Bin the headship clearly pushed it on her) are closer to rebellion by the cult's standards than Alyssa's choices (which I also don't think are choices so much as her headship telling her to look more "normal" because of the Webster's political needs).

Agree to disagree but it's your opinion and I respect it, I can see where you're coming from.

[formergothardite]

On June 28, 2016 at 7:42 PM, HermioneSparrow said:

So Jessa is showing signs of resistance by listening to CHRISTIAN rap (that she probably doesn't even like but she listens cause she has to be submissive to her hubs) but Alyssa's choices are nothing...? Lmao at the double standard here.

Btw I don't think there's much indication of ANY of them drifting from the cult but come on stop the hypocrisy, it seems even personal.

I have said before I really don't think the duggars are rebelling, but if people are going to take trivial things and claim they are baby steps away from the cult, the duggars are winning there. But i don't think any of the duggars or bates are actually rebelling against the cult, but again if  meaninglessness things are going to be taken as signs of rebellion, the Duggars are having more of those.   By cult standards the Bates are following the cult path perfectly.

[trustworthy]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:01 PM, Exjw2015deed said:

Idk if this has been posted, but tori really looks like a brunette Erin. 

I so want to scream, "It's NOT a double date if it's with your parents!!!"

[JillyO]

10 minutes ago, trustworthy said:

I so want to scream, "It's NOT a double date if it's with your parents!!!"

... and if you're not allowed to go on a single date.

[Purrl]

Boy, how boring are these 2 that no one has had anything to say on this topic for a couple of days??

[justmy2cents]

According to Lily and Ellie's blog Tori and Bobby are boyfriend/girlfriend but not courting yet.  Those Batesess are becoming more and more liberal.

[HereticHick]

11 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

According to Lily and Ellie's blog Tori and Bobby are boyfriend/girlfriend but not courting yet.  Those Batesess are becoming more and more liberal.

This is not new for the Bates.  They've used the boyfriend/girlfriend terminology for previous couples.

Think of the boyfriend/girlfriend phase as "courting" in Batesland, the "courting" phase as engagement, and the "engagement" phase as the wedding arrangements time.

[justmy2cents]

5 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

This is not new for the Bates.  They've used the boyfriend/girlfriend terminology for previous couples.

Think of the boyfriend/girlfriend phase as "courting" in Batesland, the "courting" phase as engagement, and the "engagement" phase as the wedding arrangements time.

In which case Nathan's 'engagement' has hit a snag, LOL!  I think they make it up as they go along to suit their needs.

[Bye Bye Birdie]

16 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

This is not new for the Bates.  They've used the boyfriend/girlfriend terminology for previous couples.

Think of the boyfriend/girlfriend phase as "courting" in Batesland, the "courting" phase as engagement, and the "engagement" phase as the wedding arrangements time.

This is just something they say for the TV show. There's no such thing a boyfriend/girlfriend in that world. Only courting- engagement of 6 months or less- marriage. 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Bye Bye Birdie said:

This is just something they say for the TV show. There's no such thing a boyfriend/girlfriend in that world. Only courting- engagement of 6 months or less- marriage. 

Yes.  Basically, what some of us (including @HereticHick) have been saying all along -  the beliefs haven't changed but the marketing plan has.

The Bates family has repackaged their IBLP beliefs to seem more mainstream in order to sell them more effectively on unReality TV.  

[actuallyjessica]

If it's true that they haven't began officially courting yet, I'll be very interested to see how that is portrayed on the show and whether there are any differences for their "getting to know you" stage VS a courtship.

If the timeline is correct and Nathan and Ashley only started courting when Nathan asked Ashley... They did seem pretty comfortable together and Ashley was very liberal with both verbal and physical affection.

[Bye Bye Birdie]

23 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

If the timeline is correct and Nathan and Ashley only started courting when Nathan asked Ashley... They did seem pretty comfortable together and Ashley was very liberal with both verbal and physical affection.

I know for a fact that Nathan and Ashley have been courting at least since summer. When he asked her to ''court'' in front of the cameras , she thought he was going to propose.. Ashley was just not given enough drills to learn to pretend in front of the cameras. 

Basically, what many of you observed ( @Palimpsest and others), is true- they get active coaching on what and how to say- but it's not just from the minds of the Bates, it's with the assistance of the UP and production company. Everything is staged, and polished to make it look splendid. Like the fake fruit in TV shows- looks beautiful and delicious buts it's nothing more than a piece of cardboard painted to be presented. 

It's hard for me to distinguish whether or not the kids want to be on TV- as I said I know them personally. On one hand there's an immense pressure because this is their family's ''business''- ie how they make money, but on the other hand, not everybody wants to live in the spotlight. I know Michael doesn't, but she's always the perfect daughter so she'll never say no to mom and dad. (this is about being on TV, not about leaving the cult- they are all within it very deeply, and honestly don't see anything wrong with it at all- one time, after I left I tried to talk to Michael about it but she is completely 'unbreakable')