Counting On - Part 9: Even the Flashbacks Have Flashbacks

[MarblesMom]

23 minutes ago, eandre31 said:

I can't imagine how Ben and Derick felt about Josh after they found out what he had done to their wives years ago.

This is something I haven't thought about much.  Anna allegedly knew what Josh did while courting. 

At what point was this seedy story revealed to Bin and Der? 

....AFTER they were married in?!  ... If so, what a shit storm to try to process, specially for Bin, who was/is a mere man-child.

[socalrules]

I don't think Ben and Derrick knew about the molestation until it became public. The Duggars had no problem hiding Josh's behavior from the public and bsically putting him on a pedestal as the model son others should strive to raise. I cannot see Jim Bob and Michelle making sure their daughters told Ben and Derrick about the molestation. In their mind it was over, Josh had reformed and was again the perfect son. Why potentially rock the boat by telling outsiders about it and take the risk of them telling others? Why shatter the myth of the perfect, Christian family with the Mother of the Year image that they have spent years cultivating? When would Jill and Jessa have told them anyway? Which chaperone would have been used when it was time to tell the story? 

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I wonder how Josh is going to act once the other J'slaves start courting? He tried to act like a protective brother in front of Ben and Derick (of course this could have been for show). I mean it's highly likely Ben and Derick didn't know about the molestations but now its out of the bag. I guess JD will play the old protective brother part. It's more accurate anyways. 

I wonder if the J'slaves grilled Marjorie when she was courting Josiah? is it even normal for older sisters to care about their younger brother's SO in fundieland?  

 

[Fundie Bunny]

I think at least ben knew

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/377488986094051328

[nastyhobbitses]

4 hours ago, eandre31 said:

I can't imagine how Ben and Derick felt about Josh after they found out what he had done to their wives years ago. I wonder if they even had any clue until the news came out. My first reaction would be extreme anger at Josh and sadness for the girls. I can't believe that they would feel 100% OK with how JB and DQ handled it either and don't know how they could stand being around Josh anymore.

But they are pretty well steeped in the kool-aid too so maybe they also thought it was just a "teenage mistake" and "poor teenage choices". Like molesting your sisters is akin to smoking a little pot at the park.

I think Derick would be angry and sad, since for all his poor hair-related choices and tone deafness as a missionary, he does seem to genuinely care a great deal about Jill. I don't know if he'd be sad about it in the pitying "oh, you were deflowered before our wedding but I overcame that and still love you" way or in the "someone you trusted violated you and you were forced to pretend everything was OK for over a decade and that's horrible" way. Ben I could see thinking that it was no big deal.

[BabyBottlePop]

All this stuff about Derick & Ben knowing about the abuse doesn't make sense to me. Considering ATI paints the girls at fault for their abuse by defrauding their brother... I don't see Michelle and JB thinking that telling their daughters' betrothed that Jill and Jessa were unclean or whatever is a good idea. It might ruin their chances of marrying them. The tweet Ben posted, possibly about Jessa, is surprising to me because he's so cocky I wouldn't have thought him emphatic for her. Their relationship to me on his end always seemed more about getting to have sex than really loving each other.

I guess Michelle and JB could have told D & B a condensed or edited version, a la Anna, but I can see how you can twist Josh's actions to be less of a big deal. I don't see how you could lessen Josh's actions from a victim's perspective unless Jill and Jessa acted like it wasn't a big deal.

[nst]

5 hours ago, socalrules said:

I don't think Ben and Derrick knew about the molestation until it became public. The Duggars had no problem hiding Josh's behavior from the public and bsically putting him on a pedestal as the model son others should strive to raise. I cannot see Jim Bob and Michelle making sure their daughters told Ben and Derrick about the molestation. In their mind it was over, Josh had reformed and was again the perfect son. Why potentially rock the boat by telling outsiders about it and take the risk of them telling others? Why shatter the myth of the perfect, Christian family with the Mother of the Year image that they have spent years cultivating? When would Jill and Jessa have told them anyway? Which chaperone would have been used when it was time to tell the story? 

Jana or Jinger 

so Jinger could be crying and saying she isn't worthy - which is really insane and to put that on tv - just makes me  sick again. 

I really hope they were told before their weddings - like in the early courtship times. 

Because that would be heavy, 

4 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I think at least ben knew

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/377488986094051328

this contradicts Jessa's Megan K interview 

so maybe it was something else 

[SassyPants]

I wonder if the molestation is what caused the Duggars to disallow private conversations between unmarried couples? How would you feel if you found out after you were married into a family that your spouse had been molested by a sibling, and that your Inlaws had pretty much covered it up? Derick may have left Duggarville for HIS OWN sanity as well as his wife's. 

6 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I think at least ben knew

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/377488986094051328

Was he dating courting Jessa in 2013?

[lascuba]

I think Derrick might have known about the molestations before the public did, whether before or after the wedding. Jill particularly strikes me as someone who takes the "100% honesty no secrets about anything" literally and would have told her Derrick about it, along either every other thing that ever happened to her in her life. Also, during the Megyn Kelly interview, she said that when she was told that In Touch was going to publish the story she immediately called Derrick because she was so distraught about what the evil media was about to do.

I'm not so sure about Ben and Jessa. Jessa was so defiantly nonchalant about the molestation, insisting that she could speak for the other two sisters that were molested--the two that were awake when it happened to them--and say that it wasn't a big deal. That she was asleep when Josh molested her and didn't know about it until her parents told her. It could be that it really was a non-issue for her, personally, because she has no memory of it happening and that it didn't occur to her to tell Ben because it just wasn't something she thought about. Or it could be that it was a deep, shameful secret for her and she was worried about telling him.

[choralcrusader8613]

18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Was he dating courting Jessa in 2013?

They went on their first date on September 11, 2013.

 

[Fundie Bunny]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder if the molestation is what caused the Duggars to disallow private conversations between unmarried couples? How would you feel if you found out after you were married into a family that your spouse had been molested by a sibling, and that your Inlaws had pretty much covered it up? Derick may have left Duggarville for HIS OWN sanity as well as his wife's. 

Was he dating courting Jessa in 2013?

It was announced on september 2013. They were 'knowing" each other for a while before. Some people say you can see him in the flea market episode following Jessa around like a puppy

[nst]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder if the molestation is what caused the Duggars to disallow private conversations between unmarried couples? How would you feel if you found out after you were married into a family that your spouse had been molested by a sibling, and that your Inlaws had pretty much covered it up? Derick may have left Duggarville for HIS OWN sanity as well as his wife's. 

Was he dating courting Jessa in 2013?

i am going to say yes to july august 2013 he was "trying to be her friend" in order to date/stalk her

 

42 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

It was announced on september 2011. They were 'knowing" each other for a while before. Some people say you can see him in the fea marketing episode following Jessa around like a puppy

i said that lol

[Quivering Uterus]

I just keep thinking there had to be red flags. I think that every parent still passes through their kid's room and see's things, whether it's to find the source of the stink ( boy, lol or the missing house phone. I may get a lot of heat for this, but...I wouldn't go through my kid's room like the Gestapo, but a little peek here and there, once in a while is a necessary oblication to parent a minor. I don't mean by any way to helicopter, just glance and get feedback. I mean looking for symptoms of things like signs of depression, the kids they hang with, an unhealthy obcession with guns, rage, internet use etc. If the parents had done a one minute survey they might of seen something.

Parents are too unplugged from their kids these day, even happy their kid's door IS shut, and they don't have to engage. I haven't read any of those books. I don't know her ( or their ) story, btw, just sayin. 

Find common ground, put the cell phone down and talk to your kids, before they stop talking to you. 

 

[lascuba]

17 minutes ago, Quivering Uterus said:

I just keep thinking there had to be red flags. I think that every parent still passes through their kid's room and see's things, whether it's to find the source of the stink ( boy, lol or the missing house phone. I may get a lot of heat for this, but...I wouldn't go through my kid's room like the Gestapo, but a little peek here and there, once in a while is a necessary oblication to parent a minor. I don't mean by any way to helicopter, just glance and get feedback. I mean looking for symptoms of things like signs of depression, the kids they hang with, an unhealthy obcession with guns, rage, internet use etc. If the parents had done a one minute survey they might of seen something.

Parents are too unplugged from their kids these day, even happy their kid's door IS shut, and they don't have to engage. I haven't read any of those books. I don't know her ( or their ) story, btw, just sayin. 

Find common ground, put the cell phone down and talk to your kids, before they stop talking to you. 

 

I think the sheer number of kids the Duggars have made them check out completely. The older kids were trained to take care of the physical care of the younger, and since everything was running there wasn't nothing for Michelle and JB to check, in their minds. It's like after a certain number of kids, you can't keep track of all of them so you decide to keep track of them at all.

[Quivering Uterus]

I wasn't clear. My post was mostly about the school killings.

As far as Josh goes, he's an adult and his own liability. When he was a kid he didn't have much of a space, or items to himself to peruse. No books, music choices, no internet etc. - Very little stuff to get clues or for him to even have his own self of sense. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Being a parent doesn't always mean things work out like you would want them to....even when you feel you are being very careful. I found out my perfect son was going to his friend's house and they were all drinking beer with no adults in the home. Using my car. Liar liar pants on fire. I really tried to do my best. He was SHOCKED AND DEFRAUDED when I grounded him, as in, I had heard neighbors were getting angry and might call the police. And then, I explained, there was nothing I could do for him if the police were. involved. He was STILL SHOCKED AND DEFRAUDED that I took action. Really. 

But I didn't have a crazed religious overlay, gave him privacy and chose on some level, obviously to trust him. Life just rolls along. He is adorable and I love him madly. He was raised by me and not sister moms, as he has no sisters!!! 

So, ultimately, I was SHOCKED AND DEFRAUDED by him. Ha Ha

[barbecutie]

4 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

It was announced on september 2013. They were 'knowing" each other for a while before. Some people say you can see him in the flea market episode following Jessa around like a puppy

For the love of Jim-Bob, somebody find this episode and do screen caps!! 

Stay creepy, Ben.

[Dandruff]

10 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I think at least ben knew

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenSeewald/status/377488986094051328

I remember that in one of the episodes prior to things hitting the fan, Ben went to DC to spend time with and be assessed by Josh.  I was picking up nothing but contempt from Ben when they were together.

Perhaps Ben didn't know and just couldn't stand Josh...but I think he knew.

[HarleyQuinn]

I could see Jessa dismissively telling Ben, but I bet Jill didn't tell Derick until right before the story broke. She's too concerned with being the golden daughter in her own right.

[Jucifer]

4 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

They went on their first date on September 11, 2013.

 

Ben's hair looks like someone cracked a raw egg on his head and left it there to dry, eggshell bits and all. 

It must have taken a really long shower to get all of that gunk out of his hair.

[nst]

13 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I could see Jessa dismissively telling Ben, but I bet Jill didn't tell Derick until right before the story broke. She's too concerned with being the golden daughter in her own right.

it would explain the tears she shed during the MK interview and the way she went on about calling Derick in hysterics during the interview and the 3 part special.  Maybe it all came out for her then.  

[Trynn]

I dunno man, I think boob and Bitchelle would've insisted the husbands knew about the molestations. In fundy land this is considered something you should tell them before you get married.

[nst]

1 minute ago, Trynn said:

I dunno man, I think boob and Bitchelle would've insisted the husbands knew about the molestations. In fundy land this is considered something you should tell them before you get married.

especially remember Mr Shott asking Ben and Jessa if anything was on their heart in the wedding episode 

 

[Glasgowghirl]

I don't think any of the girls have properly dealt with the abuse yet, Jill during the megyn kelly interview got over emotional, while Jessa downplayed it. They never had the chance of proper counselling to make sense of what happened just told to forgive josh and move on. 

[Hera]

I'd be surprised if either JB or Michelle insisted that Bin or Cave Man be told about Josh's "indiscretions" prior to when they knew the story was about to break. They (JB and M) thought it was all over with and ancient history, and they apparently thought all of the records were sealed.  So, there was no way they could be found out, or so they thought.  Why tell anyone?  Also, they would have had no way to be certain that the boys wouldn't balk, which would make folks wonder why, or blab, either of which might bring it all out into the open.  Why risk it?