Counting On - Part 9: Even the Flashbacks Have Flashbacks

[lascuba]

I'm watching an episode now...the one where they take Spurgeon for his passport picture. You guys aren't lying, Ben really does seem off. In the earlier episodes, I thought it was simply boredom/annoyance with the constraints of the show and anger at the fall from grace, and while I still think that that's definitely part of it (if nothing else, he must know how stupid it is to to keep rehashing past events that aired on tv not too long ago), the way he talks about marriage and fatherhood...dude is not happy. Compare this to when he went to St. Louis and hung out with Flame. Ridiculously out of place as he was, he was happy and excited to be there. 

[nst]

7 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I'm watching an episode now...the one where they take Spurgeon for his passport picture. You guys aren't lying, Ben really does seem off. In the earlier episodes, I thought it was simply boredom/annoyance with the constraints of the show and anger at the fall from grace, and while I still think that that's definitely part of it (if nothing else, he must know how stupid it is to to keep rehashing past events that aired on tv not too long ago), the way he talks about marriage and fatherhood...dude is not happy. Compare this to when he went to St. Louis and hung out with Flame. Ridiculously out of place as he was, he was happy and excited to be there. 

Im watching because nothing else is on - the episode of Duggars and Mothers and the dude is completely different 

he clearly is over it all 

[EmCatlyn]

12 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Shit just got real for him. He's got a wife, he probably doesn't really love, and a kid he has no idea who to raise. He got caught up in the TV and possibility of sex and now he's in reality and he has no idea what to do. 

"Love" is such a weird emotion that I wouldn't go so far as to say that Ben doesn't love Jessa.  He may not feel the same "magic" as he did when he was horny or in the early days when they were playing house and there was no baby, but he may feel a sort of love.  It is possible for the "familiar love" that comes after the sexual urgency cools in an arranged marriage to become tender romantic marital love. (We may be seeing some of this in Jill and Der.)  But it may take a while or not happen with Ben and Jessa.

The real issue is that he is too young to be a husband and father.    He is, as you point out, not ready for the responsibilities of fatherhood.  And he seems totally devoid of real self-awareness (knowledge of himself and a realistic measure of what he can do).  He also lacks imagination and empathy.  Sticking his poor kid with an appalling name like Spurgeon shows how he is unable to put himself in his own child's shoes.  And he certainly can't see anything from Jessa's POV.

That marriage is going to fail if he doesn't grow up and if he and Jessa can't get away from her parents and become a family in their own right.  Lack of love is the least of their worries.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

And of course Benye did it all to himself because he was hot for Jessa. He just doesn't sound like he is connected to his current circumstances. 

And now Jessa has a baby.....and pays attention to that baby all of the time. A common problem....he is too young and all Jessa talks about is adopting more babies. And if that doesn't happen, Gothard dictates Jessa be pregnant and then pregnant again......and then again. 

He seems kind of dazed to me. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, anotherone said:

So I went to watch the show on Comcast on demand and picked the most recent show.  It turns out that it was the one where they were packing, not the one where the little boys met.  For one, I don't know why Comcast is so far behind in putting up the recent episode, it's been like 4 days. Second, when I was watching, besides being totally bored by the flashbacks, I did notice how Jessa said when she lost all that blood that she was given the options for eating more iron rich foods and taking iron pills, or getting a transfusion.  She was so quick to say, transfusion!, but no mention about being grateful for the people that donated blood that she could just make such a quick decision.  They were all squeamish about donating blood (maybe because the decision was thrust upon them) but there should be some acknowledgement or just consideration where this stuff comes from. 

Call me crazy, but as a retired long time ICU nurse, I would have opted for iron and additional rest- Jessa had a pretty easy PP time as she had a stay at home spouse and eleventy sisters who could and would come help care for baby. I had none of those things and I still would have opted for iron and rest over a blood transfusion.

[anotherone]

Yay! I hit 1000 likes!  Thanks to all the FJ-ers for this great honor. 

I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation for the chance to contribute to the ultimate celebrity snark-fest and grateful that I could bring some insight and amusement to my fellow readers, as well as support the effort to expose the hypocrisy that is fundie life.  

Seriously, though, man I sure had no idea that under that TV reality façade was a huge clusterf*** of abuse and dysfunction.  It gave me a new perspective on conservative religion and the whole fundamentalist idea.  Enlightenment is always good.

[19Kittens]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ben is too young to be a husband and father, I'm 21, My daughter was born when I was 19, and I married her father at 20. Granted we've been together sense I was 14, but still, I wouldn't say it's age.

He didn't know the real Jessa until now. He didn't know the stress of being a parent until now. it's not all sunshine and daisies like Jim bob and Gothard promised. Parenting takes a shit ton out of you and I couldn't imagine trying to do it with a relative stranger no matter what age I am!

[fundiesarefascinating]

38 minutes ago, 19Kittens said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ben is too young to be a husband and father, I'm 21, My daughter was born when I was 19, and I married her father at 20. Granted we've been together sense I was 14, but still, I wouldn't say it's age.

He didn't know the real Jessa until now. He didn't know the stress of being a parent until now. it's not all sunshine and daisies like Jim bob and Gothard promised. Parenting takes a shit ton out of you and I couldn't imagine trying to do it with a relative stranger no matter what age I am!

Very true.  I think that parenting is work no matter how old you are.  But I would be willing to wager a bet that your 19 was very different from Ben's (please correct me if I'm wrong).  Likely, you had way more life experience and the chance to mature at a developmentally appropriate level. Ben and Jessa are so sheltered and have essentially had their development arrested at about 12 years of age.  With the maturity, emotionally at least, of 12-13 they have no business having children. 

[Ungodly Grandma]

9 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Call me crazy, but as a retired long time ICU nurse, I would have opted for iron and additional rest- Jessa had a pretty easy PP time as she had a stay at home spouse and eleventy sisters who could and would come help care for baby. I had none of those things and I still would have opted for iron and rest over a blood transfusion.

A transfusion is more exciting news to share with the leghumpers.

[19Kittens]

7 hours ago, fundiesarefascinating said:

Very true.  I think that parenting is work no matter how old you are.  But I would be willing to wager a bet that your 19 was very different from Ben's (please correct me if I'm wrong).  Likely, you had way more life experience and the chance to mature at a developmentally appropriate level. Ben and Jessa are so sheltered and have essentially had their development arrested at about 12 years of age.  With the maturity, emotionally at least, of 12-13 they have no business having children. 

I will say  that I was more mature than Ben lol. I graduated at 16, got a job, enrolled in cosmetology school & moved in with my boyfriend (now husband). I just get peeved when assumptions are made that if you're young you can't be a decent spouse or parent. Obviously cases vary, and I know Ben has zero outside experience 'adulting'.

[Drala]

15 hours ago, anotherone said:

So I went to watch the show on Comcast on demand and picked the most recent show.  It turns out that it was the one where they were packing, not the one where the little boys met.  For one, I don't know why Comcast is so far behind in putting up the recent episode, it's been like 4 days. Second, when I was watching, besides being totally bored by the flashbacks, I did notice how Jessa said when she lost all that blood that she was given the options for eating more iron rich foods and taking iron pills, or getting a transfusion.  She was so quick to say, transfusion!, but no mention about being grateful for the people that donated blood that she could just make such a quick decision.  They were all squeamish about donating blood (maybe because the decision was thrust upon them) but there should be some acknowledgement or just consideration where this stuff comes from. 

Are you suggesting that a Duggar acknowledge the possible existence of sacrificial and generous people--i.e. good people--who are not like them?

[RabbitKM]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Call me crazy, but as a retired long time ICU nurse, I would have opted for iron and additional rest- Jessa had a pretty easy PP time as she had a stay at home spouse and eleventy sisters who could and would come help care for baby. I had none of those things and I still would have opted for iron and rest over a blood transfusion.

May I ask, what's the benefit of the iron pills and rest over the blood transfusion?  I believe Jessa said she would have to take the pills for months, so I assume she would also feel tired and anemic until her blood and iron levels were back to normal.  

[rezski44]

4 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

A transfusion is more exciting news to share with the leghumpers.

Transfusions have risks and not just blood born diseases. You can make antibodies to the HLA antigens on the white cells and in my opinion they should only be uses when there is no other choice and not as a matter of convenience. If you ever need any kind of transplant it's better to have never had a transfusion.

[Ungodly Grandma]

44 minutes ago, rezski44 said:

Transfusions have risks and not just blood born diseases. You can make antibodies to the HLA antigens on the white cells and in my opinion they should only be uses when there is no other choice and not as a matter of convenience. If you ever need any kind of transplant it's better to have never had a transfusion.

In general, the less medical intervention the better. If rest and certain foods will do the trick, why on earth do something so invasive?

[lascuba]

Eh, if my options were to feel much improved in a few hours or feel like crap for weeks/months by taking the very slow and steady route of iron supplementation, I'd likely go for the transfusion, depending on just how bad I was feeling. There's no moral value in feeling shitty. And admit it...if she had declined the transfusion plenty of you would complain at how much Ben and Jessa's sisters were taking care of the baby because she was legitimately too tired and physically weak to do so herself. 

[quiverofdoubt]

1 hour ago, rezski44 said:

Transfusions have risks and not just blood born diseases. You can make antibodies to the HLA antigens on the white cells and in my opinion they should only be uses when there is no other choice and not as a matter of convenience. If you ever need any kind of transplant it's better to have never had a transfusion.

None of us were in her position, so it's impossible to know all she was experiencing and why she made her decision that way.  Personally I think I'd skip a transfusion if the doctors said that was an option- usually you hear about transfusions being used in dire situations where it's just not an option. My dad fell through a shower door in the 80's and lost so much blood transfusions saved his life. He contracted hep c from them though (this was a year or so before they were testing donated blood for that).  

If it had been me though I would have spent a lot more time weighing the risks/benefits of both options, grilling the doctor and critical thinking my choice. It seems immature to jump to an answer so fast on a serious medical consideration.

[anotherone]

2 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

In general, the less medical intervention the better. If rest and certain foods will do the trick, why on earth do something so invasive?

Often blood is in short supply. what if there was an accident victim or emergency surgery and they ran out?

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

Eh, if my options were to feel much improved in a few hours or feel like crap for weeks/months by taking the very slow and steady route of iron supplementation, I'd likely go for the transfusion, depending on just how bad I was feeling. There's no moral value in feeling shitty. And admit it...if she had declined the transfusion plenty of you would complain at how much Ben and Jessa's sisters were taking care of the baby because she was legitimately too tired and physically weak to do so herself. 

I tend to agree with you, but I suspect another reason she opted for the transfusion is that it is more dramatic.  "I had to have a transfusion!" i more impressive than, "I am weak and now have to take iron pills."

I am surprised though that they didn't just give her blood donated by her siblings instead of from the general supply.  There was no hurry apparently, so why not use guaranteed Duggar blood?

(I gave birth to my kids in the mid to late 80s.  At the MDs suggestion, before the seventh month both my husband and I donated blood in case it was needed by me.  It wasn't and it was donated to the general use.  But having a supply of blood that we knew did not have any diseases we did not already have seemed like a good idea.)

[Mothership]

This blood transfusion debate is interesting.  I just have one question:  Do we know that she got an actual blood transfusion or did she just get hooked up to an IV and rehydrated with some added meds to make sure her uterus was contracting?  

I'm thinking that the hospital didn't release "transfusion" as that would be against HIPAA.  And I think rather than Jessa actually making a spur of the moment decision for a transfusion because it was more dramatic, would more likely have (or frankly, out of medical stupidity) claimed that her IV hook up was a transfusion.  It isn't like the hospital is going to correct her (again, HIPAA).

My sister had a lot of bleeding--similar situation to Jessa.  She got IV fluids and was observed.

[anotherone]

Well I put all this effort every 2-3 months to donate ( i have a less common type) and i hate to think its getting used for someone who just doesnt feel like making the effort to change her diet. I mean, i dont like needles and im tired for another 24-48 hrs after donating,  but i do it anyway. So i kind of took that personally and it bugged me.

[Chickenbutt]

3 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

If it had been me though I would have spent a lot more time weighing the risks/benefits of both options, grilling the doctor and critical thinking my choice. It seems immature to jump to an answer so fast on a serious medical consideration

Ahhh, you have hit the nail on the head. Critical thinking and Duggar?, not going to happen.

[socalrules]

I see no problem with Jessa taking the transfusion. Neither taking the transfusion nor taking the pills is the wrong choice. I would have taken the transfusion. I would rather improve faster than have to deal with pills and rest for who knows how long, especially with a brand new baby. I can find many reasons to find fault with Jessa but having a blood transfusion is not one of them. Regardless of what she chose, people would have found fault with Jessa's choice because it's fun to snark on the Duggars. 

 

[Kitcae]

I think the transfusion made sense for Jessa's situation. Who would want to spend 2-3 months taking pills and healing, while caring for a newborn, while needing to have energy and looking put together for filming the show? 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Mothership said:

This blood transfusion debate is interesting.  I just have one question:  Do we know that she got an actual blood transfusion or did she just get hooked up to an IV and rehydrated with some added meds to make sure her uterus was contracting?  

I'm thinking that the hospital didn't release "transfusion" as that would be against HIPAA.  And I think rather than Jessa actually making a spur of the moment decision for a transfusion because it was more dramatic, would more likely have (or frankly, out of medical stupidity) claimed that her IV hook up was a transfusion.  It isn't like the hospital is going to correct her (again, HIPAA).

My sister had a lot of bleeding--similar situation to Jessa.  She got IV fluids and was observed.

I thought Jessa said she had a blood transfusion.  She could, of course, be lying, but we have been discussing it as though she told the truth.

It doesn't sound out of the ordinary for her to be offered a transfusion.  Your sister's MD may have preferred a different approach or may not have lost as much blood.  

who knows.

[Timetostoplurking]

I predict that Bin is going to bolt within 3-5 years.   Just a wild guess really....but my instincts say this marriage won't last.  

 

Time will tell.....