Bates Family: Babies Galore! Part 12

[crazysnark]

The only "Bates" I actually like is Alyssa. She has thoughts of her own and doesn't mind expressing them. As soon as she got married, she ditched the skirts, and stated she wanted 10 kids max. Now only a few short years later, she says she only wants 6. This may not seem like a big deal but the fact that she isn't afraid to say on her parents show that she wants 6 kids and not "however many God wants" is huge. I got married at 18 and left my parents religion 2 years later and am no am an atheist. It took me YEARS to mention to my family that I don't share their beliefs bevause I still felt like a small child next to them. This is also coming from a family who believed the husband is the leader and the woman has to do what he says. I applaud her for being so unapologetic about it. I know people think ditching pants and limiting children to 6 isn't a big deal, but I think it's a huge step in realizing your parents beliefs don't dictate the rest of society. I am hoping and betting on her closest sibling Josie following her steps. 

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, crazysnark said:

The only "Bates" I actually like is Alyssa. She has thoughts of her own and doesn't mind expressing them. As soon as she got married, she ditched the skirts, and stated she wanted 10 kids max. Now only a few short years later, she says she only wants 6. This may not seem like a big deal but the fact that she isn't afraid to say on her parents show that she wants 6 kids and not "however many God wants" is huge. I got married at 18 and left my parents religion 2 years later and am no am an atheist. It took me YEARS to mention to my family that I don't share their beliefs bevause I still felt like a small child next to them. This is also coming from a family who believed the husband is the leader and the woman has to do what he says. I applaud her for being so unapologetic about it. I know people think ditching pants and limiting children to 6 isn't a big deal, but I think it's a huge step in realizing your parents beliefs don't dictate the rest of society. I am hoping and betting on her closest sibling Josie following her steps. 

I think Alyssa plays their game better than any of them.

She makes meaningless superficial changes like bucking the dress code and saying she'll limit her kids.  However, I think this is less about "leaving her parents' cult" and more "I need to look like a normal but ideal wife and mother and not a freak show" so that she can campaign for her FIL.  Currying favor with the wider public.  

But this may allow Alyssa to be successful where the Bates and Duggars have traditionally failed: actually getting their beliefs legislated.  While I don't agree with any of it, it is one thing when a family is just living the way they want to live.  But it becomes completely another when they try to force those beliefs onto others...and Alyssa is the closest one to making that a reality.  

She may wear pants and tank tops, but I don't think she's anymore tolerant of others than the general IBLP crowd. And she uses her fame to campaign for politicians who have similar values.  

[LawsonBatesEgo]

Alyssa is a good example of how you can like some or respect some things about a person without endorsing what they believe or liking everything they do. 

Taliban Dan sucks and clearly Alyssa supports a lot of his beliefs since she has campaigned for him....but unlike Jessa and Bin, she is smarter about it and her social media presence is more "hey look at my cute kid" than a preaching platform. 

But while I don't like that she supports Taliban Dan, I can still respect her because she stands up for herself. She stands up for herself against rude comments on Instagram. And she has obviously made it very clear to her family that she will be living her life on her own terms and dressing the way she wishes. She's only 21. I know people much older than her who still can't stand up for themselves. That is something I like about her. It doesn't negate her beliefs or the grossness of Taliban Dan in general, but people are not black and white, I can still love her sense of style and think it's cool she stands up for herself and seems very self assured. 

[bashfulpixie]

I sincerely hope that Taliban Dan is one of the people who lose their congressional seat with the new redistricting in Florida.

That said- I try not to paint the Bates kids with their parents' brush.  If and when they start showing their ass publicly (like Josh and Jessa), then I'll start judging them too.  Until then, I'll assume they have their parents poisonous beliefs and hope that being out on their own will open their eyes so they can move away from the cult.

They do make adorable babies though.

[jqlgoblue]

It's hard to know what people are really up to or really think, especially when it comes to dealing with family. Most people do tow the line when it comes down to things that are required to maintain the familial relationship.

It could be that Alyssa is a wolf in sheep's clothing and is dressing 'normal' to help her FIL. Or, maybe she and John are just taking advantage of leeway and publicity because they get to do things they'd want to do anyway but couldn't if it weren't for that excuse. I doubt her religious beliefs are much changed, but at least she can be more of her own person even if it isn't as far removed from IBLP as we'd like.

[nelliebelle1197]

7 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

Alyssa is a good example of how you can like some or respect some things about a person without endorsing what they believe or liking everything they do. 

Taliban Dan sucks and clearly Alyssa supports a lot of his beliefs since she has campaigned for him....but unlike Jessa and Bin, she is smarter about it and her social media presence is more "hey look at my cute kid" than a preaching platform. 

But while I don't like that she supports Taliban Dan, I can still respect her because she stands up for herself. She stands up for herself against rude comments on Instagram. And she has obviously made it very clear to her family that she will be living her life on her own terms and dressing the way she wishes. She's only 21. I know people much older than her who still can't stand up for themselves. That is something I like about her. It doesn't negate her beliefs or the grossness of Taliban Dan in general, but people are not black and white, I can still love her sense of style and think it's cool she stands up for herself and seems very self assured. 

It's funny but saying Alyssa's sense of style is great is like saying Chad is so awesome- it's only amazing compared to other fundies. There are million women out there dressing like that.

[Kak]

7 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

I sincerely hope that Taliban Dan is one of the people who lose their congressional seat with the new redistricting in Florida.

That said- I try not to paint the Bates kids with their parents' brush.  If and when they start showing their ass publicly (like Josh and Jessa), then I'll start judging them too.  Until then, I'll assume they have their parents poisonous beliefs and hope that being out on their own will open their eyes so they can move away from the cult.

They do make adorable babies though.

Yes, we can only judge them on what they actually do. 

[AnywhereButHere]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It's funny but saying Alyssa's sense of style is great is like saying Chad is so awesome- it's only amazing compared to other fundies. There are million women out there dressing like that.

Agree with you, but I always just figured it was because that is our current frame of reference. We're discussing fundies, so she's a good example of a fashionable one. I think one of my coworkers has a great sense of business style. No matter how great I feel when I leave my house, I get to work, see her and get to feeling like I got dressed in the dark.  There are millions of great dressers out there, probably many others in my office, but she just sticks in my mind as a main example as I see her the most. I look at Alyssa the same way. There are thousands of as or more fashionable women out there, but she's in the forefront of people's minds (as we're discussing them), so she's held up as a fashion icon in the fundie sphere. It also doesn't hurt to look at where she came from. While she may have always had her individual style within her frumper fabulous past, she wouldn't have been politician Instagram ready back in the day. 

(Oh my god! What is with my phone and multiple smileys?! It's too early, and I promise I am not that happy!!)

[Palimpsest]

Speaking of what they actually do and whether they are pulling away from the cult - I hate it when they run for office.  I know Zach Bates lost his campaign for county mayor but he did get 47% of the vote.  That is too damn close and look at the platform he ran on. 

JD Duggar ran unopposed for his volunteer constable post, IIRC.  I don't know whether he had to have any formal law enforcement training or certification for that position because AR requirements are a bit obscure.  However, he is not a fully trained police officer by any means.

They are going to use these local positions as springboards for attempts at higher offices.  JD is already being misrepresented to the public as a trained police officer, and there are no signs of the Duggars seeing any need to correct that.

They need watching carefully and not just for the way they dress.

[HereticHick]

I think it is very possible for Zach to run for county mayor again in a few years and win. Zach's not 30 yet--he's got decades of possible campaigns ahead of him.

[NeverAFundie]

I agree completely.  And now that the family has more exposure outside of the Duggars, I think that just makes it even more likely that he will get elected.

[Alicja]

totally late to the party on this one, but I love how Erin "told off" Lawson on her IG. It wasn't at all phrased meanly, but it was so... normal to see her setting boundaries like that. You go Erin. I'm rooting for you.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

4 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

It's funny but saying Alyssa's sense of style is great is like saying Chad is so awesome- it's only amazing compared to other fundies. There are million women out there dressing like that.

The difference is that I don't stalk those millions of other women on instagram. 

But my point was more that you can say something nice about a fundie, like complimenting Alyssa's outfits, without being a leghumper who endorses everything they do. 

[19 cats and counting]

As for sense of style and political campaigns.  I believe the Holt family did a piece of campaign literature in their frumper days where all the girls were in frumpers (04 maybe?).  I'm sure the Duggars did that in JB's politician days too.

(Campaign staffer hat on) a family photo is a nice but not necessity for a campaign.  And most would not include in laws on there either.  

(I think between The Donald on the top of the ticket and redistricting in FL, there's a good chance that Taliban Dan will lose his seat).  

[HereticHick]

I'm confused about Lawson's pic from Pensacola beach posted yesterday.  Are they on vacation in Florida YET AGAIN (and tanning their unmarried shoulders, I see) ?  Or is this an old pic?  Are they making another visit to Pensacola Christian College?  I think Kelly and a couple of the older girls visited last fall. Michael, I believe, stated that Carlin "graduates" from the school of the dining room table this spring. Might she be PCC bound?

 

[JMO]

Something I started wondering last night.  Do you think that the Bates include PR training in the SOTDRT?  They probably don't call it that and weave it in to other discussions telling the kids how to attract others to their life style through phrasing things certain ways. 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, JMO said:

Something I started wondering last night.  Do you think that the Bates include PR training in the SOTDRT?  They probably don't call it that and weave it in to other discussions telling the kids how to attract others to their life style through phrasing things certain ways. 

They probably call it "developing your testimony" and "witnessing to heathens" while hiding the elephant.  The elephant being Gothard/IBLP, of course.

[JMO]

Has anyone else spent time recently on the newest Bates website?  The descriptions of the family are so genderized that it drives me nuts.  The boys are inevitably described as "all boy", "competitive", and "keeps us in stitches" while the girls are all described as a "Christ-like young lady" and helping with the younger kids, teaching the younger kids, etc.  I know it's not a surprise but it tends to drive home what we already know.  Also, they list a fact for every child.  "Josie is the only child with curly hair", "Warden is a great singer", "Katie Grace Bates has 5 letters in each of her names" and my favorite, "Isaiah is the only Bates to be airlifted to a hospital".  WTF?  How does that gel with the other superficial ones? I also learned in her description that Carlin hands out 30 tracts a month and runs a Bible Club that encourages other young women to do the same. 

[refugee]

10 minutes ago, JMO said:

Has anyone else spent time recently on the newest Bates website?  The descriptions of the family are so genderized that it drives me nuts.  The boys are inevitably described as "all boy", "competitive", and "keeps us in stitches" while the girls are all described as a "Christ-like young lady" and helping with the younger kids, teaching the younger kids, etc.  I know it's not a surprise but it tends to drive home what we already know.  Also, they list a fact for every child.  "Josie is the only child with curly hair", "Warden is a great singer", "Katie Grace Bates has 5 letters in each of her names" and my favorite, "Isaiah is the only Bates to be airlifted to a hospital".  WTF?  How does that gel with the other superficial ones? I also learned in her description that Carlin hands out 30 tracts a month and runs a Bible Club that encourages other young women to do the same. 

Well, you have to distinguish them *somehow*. I find it sad that Katie's only distinguishing feature appears to be the number of letters in her name. How about "loves to sing" or "has an amazing gift with animals" or "has perfected the cartwheel" or something like that?

[RoseWilder]

15 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

That said- I try not to paint the Bates kids with their parents' brush.  If and when they start showing their ass publicly (like Josh and Jessa), then I'll start judging them too. 

Lawson has already started to grate on my nerves and I've only been paying attention to his social media posts for a few weeks.

[doubleT]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

 

 

Who is the guy on the left?  The girls are Tori and Josie right?  And then Lawson on the right by Tori? 

[JillyO]

11 minutes ago, doubleT said:

Who is the guy on the left?  The girls are Tori and Josie right?  And then Lawson on the right by Tori? 

That's Lawson as well. You can see that two pictures were merged in the middle.

[SweetLaurel]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Has anyone else spent time recently on the newest Bates website?  The descriptions of the family are so genderized that it drives me nuts.  The boys are inevitably described as "all boy", "competitive", and "keeps us in stitches" while the girls are all described as a "Christ-like young lady" and helping with the younger kids, teaching the younger kids, etc.  I know it's not a surprise but it tends to drive home what we already know.  Also, they list a fact for every child.  "Josie is the only child with curly hair", "Warden is a great singer", "Katie Grace Bates has 5 letters in each of her names" and my favorite, "Isaiah is the only Bates to be airlifted to a hospital".  WTF?  How does that gel with the other superficial ones? I also learned in her description that Carlin hands out 30 tracts a month and runs a Bible Club that encourages other young women to do the same. 

I hope she doesn't eat out a lot... when I waitress-ed I couldn't stand the tract leavers.   Because they thought it was a real tip.  

[wotdancer]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Well, you have to distinguish them *somehow*. I find it sad that Katie's only distinguishing feature appears to be the number of letters in her name. How about "loves to sing" or "has an amazing gift with animals" or "has perfected the cartwheel" or something like that?

tsk tsk...cartwheels aren't ladylike! Skirts fly everywhere lol. /sarcasm

[Melissa1977]

When has Alyssa said she only wants 6 kids?

I think she is somehow corageous and standing by herself. But don't forget John's siblings seem to use birth control, so saying she is not having 19 kids is against Bates but not against Websters.

 

About clothes, I don't think Alyssa is choosing jeans and modern dresses to built any political image. I think she just loves it. When she was living with her parents, she was the less frumpy of all the girls.

Seeing how much she loves being thin and having quiet time, I think she's not even having 6 kids. Time will say, but Bates influence will be weaker and weaker for Alyssa as time goes by.