Bates Family: Babies Galore! Part 12

[Palimpsest]

12 hours ago, Diana said:

I also find the Walking dead interesting, but i dont understand what that has to do with anything. 

I also dont get how exactly are you calling atention to their beliefs comenting on this forum on the internet, a forum you have to search on purpose being already interested in them to find. 

Well, that wasn't very nice or very informed.  You do realize that FJ, and especially this QOS forum, don't exist just to discuss TV shows and UnReality TV Show families? 

Take a look at the forum description:  "Intelligent discussion about controversial topics, primarily extremists and religious fundamentalists, and the negative impact they have on our society."

Perhaps you'd be surprised to know how many people search us out to do just that and to learn more about the dangers of extreme fundamentalist beliefs!

[RoseWilder]

I agree that Chad seems like a better Fundie husband than most. But wow it's a sad reflection on how crappy the men in this cult behave that a man actually being nice to his wife is such an amazing novelty. 

[Snarkle]

I always wonder how these fundie 2.0 couples would have turned out if their parents hadn't been seduced by IBLP and ATI back when they were young.  The organization that started out doling out advice on financial matters/staying out of debt for their parents eventually ramped up to dictating every facet of life for them and their children, from dress to education.  They still would have been some flavor of fundie, but not as extreme, I can only hope.  Perhaps time will dilute the message and generation 3.0 and 4.0 will be less indoctrinated?

[RoseWilder]

14 minutes ago, Snarkle said:

I always wonder how these fundie 2.0 couples would have turned out if their parents hadn't been seduced by IBLP and ATI back when they were young.  

It makes me sad to think of what might have been. Chad and Erin both seem like hardworking, caring people (and Erin seems really talented.) Just imagine what they could have accomplished if they'd been allowed to go to real colleges and if they hadn't been taught to vote against everyone who is different from them. They could have been the kind of people who did great things to leave the world a better place. As it is now, they seem to be doing their best to accomplish as much as they can within the narrow confines of their religion/cult, but unless they leave their parents restrictive beliefs behind, there will always be limits to what they can do and accomplish. And it makes my skin crawl to think of how those two, who seem like genuinely caring people, were raised to believe that taking away other people's rights is not only acceptable but actually a sign of love (my relatives are always spouting bullshit on Facebook about how taking rights away from people isn't a sign they hate them, but a sign then love them too much to allow them to live in sin. I'm assuming the people in this cult have the same arrogant, sickening approach to making themselves feel good about treating other people so badly.)

[nelliebelle1197]

I have an honest question: Why are people who love the Batesesessses posting here instead of a fan site? You have to know by now this is not a fundie-love site and many of the people who like the Bateses rip apart other fundies. The Bates family is no different than any other fundie family; not a bit. Frankly, Meghan Carver's family is a much better example by far of "good" fundies, but they are not attractive, telegenic, grifting famewhores who make money by appearing on TV.  She is a former lawyer who has published Christian romantic fiction and he is a computer sciences professor at a technical college. But no one pays Meghan and her balance of being a decent person (which I truly think she is despite being a fundie), good educator to her children while managing to hold despicable beliefs an inch of attention.

I am not posing this question to start anything. I just don't get what the Bates family fans think they are getting out of arguing the Batesesesssse are better than the Duggars, when they are not by any means, on an anti-fundie site. I got ripped apart for being in the small minority who had sympathy for Zsucifer's twin pregnancy issues and I totally get why and understood I was in the wrong universe for defending Zsucifer.

The Bateses are going to get ripped apart here. Period. Free Jinger is not a fan site. Period.

So I don't understand why people get so defensive. Ripping apart fundies is why we are here and the Batesses are not snowflakes.

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Well, that wasn't very nice or very informed.  You do realize that FJ, and especially this QOS forum, don't exist just to discuss TV shows and UnReality TV Show families? 

Take a look at the forum description:  "Intelligent discussion about controversial topics, primarily extremists and religious fundamentalists, and the negative impact they have on our society."

Perhaps you'd be surprised to know how many people search us out to do just that and to learn more about the dangers of extreme fundamentalist beliefs!

Thank you, Mrs. P. I was wondering WTF was up with that comment.

[VelociRapture]

So out of a mixture of curiosity and boredom, I watched the first episode of BUB. I present to you all...

The Dinosaur Watches BUB: A Chronicle of Apocalypse Via Boredom

It was both boring and interesting at the same time. As a Northerner born and bred, the most interesting part for me was the accents and scenery. Took a bit to get used to the accents - especially Gil for some reason. I thought it was cool how different some family members sound from one another.

Don't like Gil or Kelly at all. Wouldn't like them even if I didn't know the background on the family and their beliefs by the way - just something about the way they interact with one another icks me out a bit. Kelly got that, "Look at your husband likes he's the Goddamn Savior," down pretty good.

And it's probably just Kelly's personality, but she just seems too over the top and "on" for me. I've met people like that who are nice enough otherwise, but I just can't handle it on a daily basis. Erin is a bit similar, but she is more mellow or palatable somehow.

Their kids seem nice enough. Editing, coaching, and observing the multitude of fuck ups the Duggars have had probably helped a great deal.

That scene between Erin and interchangeable Brunette Sister 1 would have been touching if it wasn't in the middle of a store and didn't seem so awkwardly staged to me.

Only really genuine moments I saw were the reactions to Alyssa's pregnancy announcement and the conversation THs the adult married kids had - especially between the Paines. As someone who had a miscarriage last month, I completely relate with a lot of what Erin said. And some of the things Chad stated reminds me of how my husband has reacted to our loss as well. I can only hope these brief conversations were honest and genuine.

All in all, it's a passable show. Better than the shit job TLC does at times, but nothing really special. It's the type of show I'll watch when I feel like rotting my brain into oblivion or I need to feel better about my lot in life (which is happening a lot the past few weeks.)

ETA: Just pet peeves...

Do they pray before doing everything? Just stood out to me a bit because it's not something I've grown up with. 

And Kelly saying Cherin was married a little over a year when Bradley wasn't even born yet. Bugs me the tiniest bit that either she doesn't remember or that UP edited it the way they did.

[19 cats and counting]

2 hours ago, Snarkle said:

I always wonder how these fundie 2.0 couples would have turned out if their parents hadn't been seduced by IBLP and ATI back when they were young.  The organization that started out doling out advice on financial matters/staying out of debt for their parents eventually ramped up to dictating every facet of life for them and their children, from dress to education.  They still would have been some flavor of fundie, but not as extreme, I can only hope.  Perhaps time will dilute the message and generation 3.0 and 4.0 will be less indoctrinated?

I'm wondering how the younger 2.0 fundies are going to fare as they get older.  Like the Lost Girls or the younger Bates kids.  

Sure you have some fundie 2.0 couples destined to continue ATI but they were also the older kids of megafamilies.  Jordyn Duggar did not wear frumpers (I don't think any of the Lost Girls did) or for that matter have a mother active in her education.  Callie Bates did wear the prairie dresses but at a time when they were age appropriate.  She doesn't know a world where her family wasn't active on social media.  Both of these girls lost their primary mother figure to marriage too.

[is.it.real]

2 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

I agree that Chad seems like a better Fundie husband than most. But wow it's a sad reflection on how crappy the men in this cult behave that a man actually being nice to his wife is such an amazing novelty. 

"In relation to" in the fundie context becomes so weird. Chad seems like a good husband in relation to Ben or Joshly. But it is in relation to guys who are involved in this Duggar-phenomenon. However if we compare Chad to John and/or Brandon, does he seem as so much better? The thing about John and Brandon is that they have not been featured that much on the show, so what do we really know? But, from what we've seen so far, my conclusion is that, the Bates girls seems to be happily married, and have spouses that make them develop in different ways.

[RoseWilder]

5 minutes ago, Guilty pleasure said:

"In relation to" in the fundie context becomes so weird. Chad seems like a good husband in relation to Ben or Joshly. But it is in relation to guys who are involved in this Duggar-phenomenon. However if we compare Chad to John and/or Brandon, does he seem as so much better? The thing about John and Brandon is that they have not been featured that much on the show, so what do we really know? But, from what we've seen so far, my conclusion is that, the Bates girls seems to be happily married, and have spouses that make them develop in different ways.

I can't speak for other people, but for me, I wasn't so much comparing Chad just to the Duggars. Josh is obviously a terrible husband, but I think the other husbands don't seem like total jerks to their wives. I was comparing to people like PP and Lori's husband (can't remember his name.) They are such major assholes that Chad seems like a saint in comparison. 

Good point about John and Brandon, though. We just don't see much about John. Alyssa keeps it fairly private. I've never looked on Michael's instagram page, so I don't know what she posts about Brandon. 

Not that we see much of any of these people's lives. Who knows, Chad could be a total jerk behind closed doors. They all could. But I'm just so fascinated/horrified by people like Lori's husband, who doesn't even try to hide the crappy way he treats his wife. He seems proud of how badly he treats her. 

[Ali]

It is possible to appear happily married, but be completely miserable underneath the surface. This is one of the most dangerous things about the Bateses. They look like a big happy family, but underneath the surface lurks some dangerous beliefs. 

Chad "lets" Erin work instead of supporting her as she pursues her dreams. What year is this? How supportive would he be if her dream job was a non-fundie approved path?

 

[Palimpsest]

@RoseWilder  I think you are referring to Ken (and Lori) Alexander.

You never know what lurks behind the sparkly happy blogs and outward presentation of these families.  However sweet the individuals appear they are still promoting a patriarchal and controlling lifestyle that covers up abusing practices and does not value education, especially for women.

Moreover, the families with the pretty blogs and TV shows are the "successful" ones.  There are other families who follow these practices who are living in poverty and failing to take advantage of government programs.  Some of the mothers are so completely burned out by the demands of keeping sweet in the face of abuse and managing to feed many children on little to no money, that they can't even keep up with any form of homeschooling.  

Although not Gothardite, Lydia of Purple's family is a really good example of this.  The younger children were positively feral although the late Colleen did her best.    

Also, look at the stories coming out of Recovering Grace and the IBLP/Gothard lawsuit.  Those stories are probably the tip of the iceberg and a much better measure of the reality of the Patriarchal movement than the extended Bates family's instagram communications.

[formergothardite]

Before the Josh scandal most people here(including me) thought that while Josh was lazy, he and Anna had a pretty good marriage. The truth was that he was cheating on her as much as he could. 

We only see a tiny, tiny carefully scripted part of the Bates life. Reality television and all the social media pages don't actually reflect reality, they just show us what the Bates want us to see which is a happy family where the parents did a better job at finding spouses for their kids than the Duggars. 

[RoseWilder]

13 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@RoseWilder  I think you are referring to Ken (and Lori) Alexander.

Yes, thank you. That's who I was referring to. It fascinates me that people like Ken and Lori seem to be trying to convert people to their way of life and yet they make it look like hell on earth. You would think they would at least try to put up a good appearance. 

[ClaraOswin]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

So out of a mixture of curiosity and boredom, I watched the first episode of BUB. I present to you all...

The Dinosaur Watches BUB: A Chronicle of Apocalypse Via Boredom

It was both boring and interesting at the same time. As a Northerner born and bred, the most interesting part for me was the accents and scenery. Took a bit to get used to the accents - especially Gil for some reason. I thought it was cool how different some family members sound from one another.

Don't like Gil or Kelly at all. Wouldn't like them even if I didn't know the background on the family and their beliefs by the way - just something about the way they interact with one another icks me out a bit. Kelly got that, "Look at your husband likes he's the Goddamn Savior," down pretty good.

And it's probably just Kelly's personality, but she just seems too over the top and "on" for me. I've met people like that who are nice enough otherwise, but I just can't handle it on a daily basis. Erin is a bit similar, but she is more mellow or palatable somehow.

Their kids seem nice enough. Editing, coaching, and observing the multitude of fuck ups the Duggars have had probably helped a great deal.

That scene between Erin and interchangeable Brunette Sister 1 would have been touching if it wasn't in the middle of a store and didn't seem so awkwardly staged to me.

Only really genuine moments I saw were the reactions to Alyssa's pregnancy announcement and the conversation THs the adult married kids had - especially between the Paines. As someone who had a miscarriage last month, I completely relate with a lot of what Erin said. And some of the things Chad stated reminds me of how my husband has reacted to our loss as well. I can only hope these brief conversations were honest and genuine.

All in all, it's a passable show. Better than the shit job TLC does at times, but nothing really special. It's the type of show I'll watch when I feel like rotting my brain into oblivion or I need to feel better about my lot in life (which is happening a lot the past few weeks.)

ETA: Just pet peeves...

Do they pray before doing everything? Just stood out to me a bit because it's not something I've grown up with. 

And Kelly saying Cherin was married a little over a year when Bradley wasn't even born yet. Bugs me the tiniest bit that either she doesn't remember or that UP edited it the way they did.

You pretty much described my feelings after watching a bit of BUB. I couldn't watch much. I find them to be extremely annoying. Their voices grate on my nerves.

[SilverBeach]

22 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But look at what Gil has done. Every time I see a happy, shiny Bates picture I think if Gil trying to manipulate a victim into meeting alone with her abuser last year. I think of all the abuse he has helped cover up and I think of how it felt for the victims when he and the rest of the board announced they were all liars, even though they knew that the women were telling the truth. Gil is a monster. He is evil and it makes me furious that he is able to make people think his family isn't as corrupt as the Duggar family. 

+1000. Deceptive, deceptive, deceptive, you (general) need discernment when dealing with these insidious, damaging ATI/IBLP folks.

6 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I have an honest question: Why are people who love the Batesesessses posting here instead of a fan site? You have to know by now this is not a fundie-love site and many of the people who like the Bateses rip apart other fundies. The Bates family is no different than any other fundie family; not a bit. Frankly, Meghan Carver's family is a much better example by far of "good" fundies, but they are not attractive, telegenic, grifting famewhores who make money by appearing on TV.  She is a former lawyer who has published Christian romantic fiction and he is a computer sciences professor at a technical college. But no one pays Meghan and her balance of being a decent person (which I truly think she is despite being a fundie), good educator to her children while managing to hold despicable beliefs an inch of attention.

I am not posing this question to start anything. I just don't get what the Bates family fans think they are getting out of arguing the Batesesesssse are better than the Duggars, when they are not by any means, on an anti-fundie site. I got ripped apart for being in the small minority who had sympathy for Zsucifer's twin pregnancy issues and I totally get why and understood I was in the wrong universe for defending Zsucifer.

The Bateses are going to get ripped apart here. Period. Free Jinger is not a fan site. Period.

So I don't understand why people get so defensive. Ripping apart fundies is why we are here and the Batesses are not snowflakes.

Thank you, Mrs. P. I was wondering WTF was up with that comment.

+1000

[SilverBeach]

22 hours ago, Diana said:

I also find the Walking dead interesting, but i dont understand what that has to do with anything. 

I also dont get how exactly are you calling atention to their beliefs comenting on this forum on the internet, a forum you have to search on purpose being already interested in them to find. 

You really don't get it. I find TWD interesting, and I enjoy watching. I dont find the ATI/IBLP crowd interesting, I find them repulsive and puke-inducing, and have not watched in years. They make me sick with their hate, misogyny, and homophobia.I am not "interested" in them in any positive sense whatsoever, not even a neutral sense. I despise them because of what they support. 

Sorry, I can't quite parse the meaning of your second paragraph. 

@nelliebelle1197 says it up thread a bit. This is NOT a fan site and never has been. No one should be surprised to find that some of us go hard against fundies. 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

8 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I have an honest question: Why are people who love the Batesesessses posting here instead of a fan site? You have to know by now this is not a fundie-love site and many of the people who like the Bateses rip apart other fundies. The Bates family is no different than any other fundie family; not a bit. Frankly, Meghan Carver's family is a much better example by far of "good" fundies, but they are not attractive, telegenic, grifting famewhores who make money by appearing on TV.  She is a former lawyer who has published Christian romantic fiction and he is a computer sciences professor at a technical college. But no one pays Meghan and her balance of being a decent person (which I truly think she is despite being a fundie), good educator to her children while managing to hold despicable beliefs an inch of attention.

I am not posing this question to start anything. I just don't get what the Bates family fans think they are getting out of arguing the Batesesesssse are better than the Duggars, when they are not by any means, on an anti-fundie site. I got ripped apart for being in the small minority who had sympathy for Zsucifer's twin pregnancy issues and I totally get why and understood I was in the wrong universe for defending Zsucifer.

The Bateses are going to get ripped apart here. Period. Free Jinger is not a fan site. Period.

So I don't understand why people get so defensive. Ripping apart fundies is why we are here and the Batesses are not snowflakes.

Thank you, Mrs. P. I was wondering WTF was up with that comment.

I generally agree, and I think that there is a big difference in A) being sympathetic to someone's honest struggles; B ) finding some personal traits of someone to be good qualities; and C) liking fundies or agreeing with them. 

I may say that I am sympathetic to Erin's pregnancy struggles, and that I find Chad's demeanor polite, nice and caring. I am human and have natural human like/dislike reactions.

Still, I will say out loud that, regardless of the above, they are still people who buy into a brainwashing cult promoting criminal behavior which is advertised on TV as glamorous! 

[withaj]

11 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I meant nothing personal, sorry. I just bounced off your quote to make a point.

You are correct.  Prince George wore one of his Dad's 1980s smocked outfits to his sister's christening.  I really don't know how I recognized it but apparently the RF believes in recycling!  

Actually, Prince George was wearing a modern purchase, not a saved piece, but it certainly was a nod to William's similar smocked outfit.

http://www.princegeorgepieces.com/#!Princess-Charlottes-Christening/colb/559970770cf2efdf74ec7266

For true royal family intergenerational outfit sharing, take a look at the Swedes. Estelle and Leonore have been spotted several times in pieces from Victoria and Madeleine's childhood wardrobes. It's adorable.

[Palimpsest]

12 minutes ago, withaj said:

Actually, Prince George was wearing a modern purchase, not a saved piece, but it certainly was a nod to William's similar smocked outfit.

http://www.princegeorgepieces.com/#!Princess-Charlottes-Christening/colb/559970770cf2efdf74ec7266

For true royal family intergenerational outfit sharing, take a look at the Swedes. Estelle and Leonore have been spotted several times in pieces from Victoria and Madeleine's childhood wardrobes. It's adorable.

I bow humbly to your superior knowledge.  It looked very familiar.

Now I dare you to tell me that the Princess Royal doesn't wear recycled outfits.  

[withaj]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

I bow humbly to your superior knowledge.  It looked very familiar.

Now I dare you to tell me that the Princess Royal doesn't wear recycled outfits.  

Ooh, nobody beats Anne for outfit repeats through different "seasons of life" -- she must have a formidable wardrobe.

[Snarkle]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I bow humbly to your superior knowledge.  It looked very familiar.

Now I dare you to tell me that the Princess Royal doesn't wear recycled outfits.  

Princess Charlotte may (or may not) wear recycled outfits (hard to tell since there aren't many pictures of her), but her mother certainly does!  Royal watchers often point out how she wears the same outfit, coat, or even hat from occasion to occasion.  Part of it is probably to appear as somewhat frugal (or at least respectful of the cost of such things), and also probably because she likes them.  Although the carriage they used on the christening day was vintage, I believe.  Hard to think those Silver Cross prams wear out too easily!   And kudos to you, @withaj for finding a website dedicated to petite royals and their clothing! 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, withaj said:

Ooh, nobody beats Anne for outfit repeats through different "seasons of life" -- she must have a formidable wardrobe.

Anne has retained her figure in a very enviable way and recycles always questionable fashion choices indefinitely.  I've always like Anne above all other members of the RF.  Ever since she was criticized for saying, "I saw bloody stars."  Look it up.

Um, should we get back to topic before we annoy people?

[Snarkle]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

Um, should we get back to topic before we annoy people?

Well we know fundie royalty recycles their clothes, or at least likes to buy them used and save the difference...

[LawsonBatesEgo]

On 3/21/2016 at 9:10 AM, formergothardite said:

But look at what Gil has done. Every time I see a happy, shiny Bates picture I think if Gil trying to manipulate a victim into meeting alone with her abuser last year. I think of all the abuse he has helped cover up and I think of how it felt for the victims when he and the rest of the board announced they were all liars, even though they knew that the women were telling the truth. Gil is a monster. He is evil and it makes me furious that he is able to make people think his family isn't as corrupt as the Duggar family. 

I absolutely agree that Gil Bates is a walking trashcan.

While I will always be critical of ATI/Gothardism and agree that what Gil Bates needs is a prison cell for covering up sexual abuse and not a television show to 'minister' to others, I don't want to start 'projecting' his actions onto his children. As far as we know, none of the Bates kids have sexually assaulted anyone or covered up sexual assault, so I don't want to project my feelings towards what Gil has done onto his kids. Even their dislikeable traits (such as Lawson's Jupiter Sized Ego) are nothing compared to what Gil has done. 

I have a friend whose father is in jail for sexual assault (she has completely disowned him and changed her surname). She is from a small town and people talk. I really hate the way people "project the sins of the father onto the kid" because she didn't do anything, she has nothing to do with him....yet she often gets tarred with the paint on his brush. I don't want to do that to the Bates kids. I'll stick to snarking on their own individual actions. 

6 hours ago, Ali said:

It is possible to appear happily married, but be completely miserable underneath the surface. This is one of the most dangerous things about the Bateses. They look like a big happy family, but underneath the surface lurks some dangerous beliefs. 

Chad "lets" Erin work instead of supporting her as she pursues her dreams. What year is this? How supportive would he be if her dream job was a non-fundie approved path?

 

That's very true, we can all only base our comments based on what we see on social media/tv/blogs.

I do think this is something almost everyone does to some extent these days. Social media "image crafting" is something everyone does now since the internet has given everyone a Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat as a platform to share their lives. It's only natural to want to "put your best foot forward" and want to impress others. I know there are times I've made happy posts on social media when I've actually been horrible depressed "behind the photo".

[formergothardite]

The problem with the rest of the Bates family is that they are actively helping sell a lie. They are sugar coating a horrific lifestyle to make it appealing to more people. There is a lot of evil lurking underneath that happy show they put on. Not just ATI/IBLP/Gothard, Alyssa's FIL's beliefs are wretched(and since she campaigns for him I'm assuming she supports these beliefs) and Chad and Erin appear to be very, very fundie. All of them are selling a very dangerous lifestyle by making it look nice.