Bates Family Part 10

[grandmadugger]

I wish Erin would have said, "Bless your heart Lawson but stay on your own page."

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

I wish Erin would have said, "Bless your heart Lawson but stay on your own page."

She could have gone with Gil's favorite phrase. "Son of America, Lawson, stay on your own page."

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

I think it was really rude of Lawson to impose his "clarifications" on Erin's page. 

Why did he have the impulse and feel justified to do that? Totally not his place, IMO.

 

[grandmadugger]

13 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

She could have gone with Gil's favorite phrase. "Son of America, Lawson, stay on your own page."

I have to admit when Gil says "Son of America" I momentarily forget he's scum.  My daddy wouldn't curse in front of me so he used "God bless America"

[Withagrainofsalt]

On 2/21/2016 at 10:35 AM, RoseWilder said:

I think, out of all the married Bates kids, Zach seems to be the one who is showing the strongest signs of moving away from his parents' beliefs. 

1. He decided to date Whitney instead of doing a courtship. 

2. He dated someone outside of the cult, who had a job and was pursuing a medical coding degree of some kind. 

3. He and Whitney don't attend homechurch with the Bates family. 

4. Zach said he's going to let his child watch some mainstream TV. 

5. He got a job working for someone else, where he not only had to train but will continue to have to work with and for people who do no share his family's beliefs. He might even have to (GASP) work with or for a woman. 

Those are hugs changes for a person to make in the span of less than 3 years. 

There are a lot of other things that remain to be seen (whether they will homeschool, if they're going to have 20 kids, if they're going to make the older kids raise the younger ones) - but I'm seeing some hopeful signs that he's slowly moving away from his parents beliefs. Who knows how far he'll move away from those beliefs, but I think there's a good chance that he will be capable of reevaluating other aspects of his parents beliefs in the coming years. 

They also decorated the nursery in Winnie the Pooh bedding and decorations. As you said, that is show Zach said he would let his child watch. I recently rewatched the Welcome Grandbaby Bates and IIRC they said Zach has three jobs? Any idea what the other two are? 

19 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Taking out Erin's comment about Gothard, Zach has said he would let his kids watch some TV (I don't recall any of the Duggars saying that) and Alyssa wears pants which none of the Duggar grls do.  So they have at least done some minor things different than their parents.  I don't think Jessa's leap to Calvinism is really a leap. I also get the impression if you asked Jill what she thought she'd have to ask her parents. 

Alyssa also has her ears pierced which I recall her saying is something her family doesn't support. 

[Bethella]

7 minutes ago, JasonAldeanMG said:

I recently rewatched the Welcome Grandbaby Bates and IIRC they said Zach has three jobs? Any idea what the other two are? 

IIRC- He works at some kind of sheet metal type place with Chad; he was a county commissioner (I don't think he is anymore) and he's a cop.

[HereticHick]

17 minutes ago, Bethella said:

IIRC- He works at some kind of sheet metal type place with Chad; he was a county commissioner (I don't think he is anymore) and he's a cop.

Zach also is a volunteer EMT.

He and Whitney have also made references to watching movies at home, and based on all the Instagram photos of the older Bates boys hanging out at Zach's house on Monday nights and talking about football--I'm guessing that Monday night football on Zach's tv has become a tradition.

[grandmadugger]

3 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Zach also is a volunteer EMT.

He and Whitney have also made references to watching movies at home, and based on all the Instagram photos of the older Bates boys hanging out at Zach's house on Monday nights and talking about football--I'm guessing that Monday night football on Zach's tv has become a tradition.

NOOOO, it's Monday night male Bible study at Zach's, Whitney is the heathen that turns on the TV to football.  Those Bates boys wouldn't watch otherwise.  Damn Temptress! 

[EmiGirl]

18 hours ago, elliha said:

No birth control is 100% but properly fitted condoms don't break very easily. If a condom is on it will provide a high degree of protection. I know one couple who used condoms AND birth control pills and still got pregnant so anything is possible. But, the thing is that mostly why condoms look bad in the statistics is because many people claim to use condoms but actually do not use them properly (not every time, not the whole time, wrong size). For perfect usage they have the same numbers as some birth control pills. 

And let's face it, the chances that Erin and Chad know the proper usage are nil.

[grandmadugger]

38 minutes ago, JasonAldeanMG said:

They also decorated the nursery in Winnie the Pooh bedding and decorations. As you said, that is show Zach said he would let his child watch. I recently rewatched the Welcome Grandbaby Bates and IIRC they said Zach has three jobs? Any idea what the other two are? 

Alyssa also has her ears pierced which I recall her saying is something her family doesn't support. 

I never thought about the ear piercing thing.  It's just so common I never thought of it being an issue.

[QuiverDance]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The sexual abuse scandals, and more importantly how those abuses were handled by Rome, is why we walked away from the RCC. It was the final straw. 

Even though we have walked away from the RCC, I never, in my 45 years of active involvement remember hate for others preached at the pulpit. For this reason, I could not attend any other Christian denomination- some of those other denominations seem much more vocal and not necessarily in a positive way.

I might try a secular humanist gathering, but another Christian Church, no. I'd go back to the RCC first.

I like the United Methodist Church.  They don't preach hate.  They're actually pretty inclusive.  I think I'll probably take my kids there.  The Eucharist Service is pretty much exactly like Mass.  

[andagoat]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The sexual abuse scandals, and more importantly how those abuses were handled by Rome, is why we walked away from the RCC. It was the final straw. 

Even though we have walked away from the RCC, I never, in my 45 years of active involvement remember hate for others preached at the pulpit. For this reason, I could not attend any other Christian denomination- some of those other denominations seem much more vocal and not necessarily in a positive way.

I might try a secular humanist gathering, but another Christian Church, no. I'd go back to the RCC first.

I took a very long break from Mass and any involvement with the RCC because of the abuse scandals.  Only in the past 9 months have we begun going back.  I live in the Bible Belt and we've gone to other churches on the request of my kids, but I just can't.  It's RCC or nothing for me.  That's just me.

[QuiverDance]

Just now, andagoat said:

I took a very long break from Mass and any involvement with the RCC because of the abuse scandals.  Only in the past 9 months have we begun going back.  I live in the Bible Belt and we've gone to other churches on the request of my kids, but I just can't.  It's RCC or nothing for me.  That's just me.

It's really, really hard for me to NOT go to Mass.  I cannot and do not support the Church any longer.  Not only because of the sex abuse scandals, but also because of women's rights issues.  I can no longer be part of an organization that marginalizes half its population because vaginas.  Nope.  

[andagoat]

1 minute ago, QuiverDance said:

It's really, really hard for me to NOT go to Mass.  I cannot and do not support the Church any longer.  Not only because of the sex abuse scandals, but also because of women's rights issues.  I can no longer be part of an organization that marginalizes half its population because vaginas.  Nope.  

I completely understand.  At the bottom of all of it is our relationship with God.  And that's between us and God, not us and the community we live in.  I live in an area that is 90% evangelical.  Sometimes it's tough.

[Kira]

20 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Taking out Erin's comment about Gothard, Zach has said he would let his kids watch some TV (I don't recall any of the Duggars saying that) and Alyssa wears pants which none of the Duggar grls do.  So they have at least done some minor things different than their parents.  I don't think Jessa's leap to Calvinism is really a leap. I also get the impression if you asked Jill what she thought she'd have to ask her parents. 

1.The Duggar(X2) have TVs. The Dillards have a tv. I don't know if Tthe Seewald have a tv. We've see them watch tv on the show. Didn't they(JB&M/The Seewald) post a photo in December of the family watching Charlie Brown Christmas ?

2. Jill and Derick saw Cinderella on Broadway. I think she said she it made her want to learn about fairy tales? Didn't Jill also say something about singing nursery rhymes to Israel? Michelle only sang hymns to her children. Jill didn't know any nursery rhymes. 

3. Jessa likes Christian rap? Idon't the Duggar kids where allowed to hear that kind of Christian music.

4. I'm sure there are more examples. The Duggar kids have done some minor things different than their parents.

 

 

 

 

 

5. I stand by what I said about Lawson's comment on Erin's IG. I don't think Erin's emoji were passive agressive. Erin may not have wanted Lawson to make that comment, but I don't think he did it to defend his father an IBLP. I think Lawson wanted to clarify her comment. Like formergothardite said Lawson keeps making the Bates look bad. 

 

 

[nelliebelle1197]

Yeah, it is really interesting, @Kira how the Duggars do things differently from their parents and it means nothing, that both Duggar girls married outside ATI (and Jessa is embracing Calvinism, FFS)  yet they cannot think for themselves.

The Bateseses girls all married sons of ATI royalty. Alyssa wears pants a few times (as does every other woman in the ATI-livings Websters) and Erin makes her comment (which might mean they are disgusted by gothard and not using IBLP guidelines but does not mean they are an inch less fundy or less religious or it might also mean ATI is rebranding), yet Gil and Kelly are great parents who used the Ezzo method to train up a bunch of free thinkers! Wow! 

Such a difference!

.

 

 

[nst]

5 hours ago, MissBitters said:

I get the feeling those might have been passive-aggressive emoticons, lol. I'm sure she's tired of her phone blowing up from comments made on a weeks-old picture.

Edited to add: I would've died if she blessed Lawson's heart.

Doesn't lawson pay for his parents bills - maybe he felt the need to father Erin - even though she has her own headship 

but i am glad she told him to go away per say

[SweetFellowshipper]

26 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Yeah, it is really interesting, @Kira how the Duggars do things differently from their parents and it means nothing, that both Duggar girls married outside ATI (and Jessa is embracing Calvinism, FFS)  yet they cannot think for themselves.

The Bateseses girls all married sons of ATI royalty. Alyssa wears pants a few times (as does every other woman in the ATI-livings Websters) and Erin makes her comment (which might mean they are disgusted by gothard and not using IBLP guidelines but does not mean they are an inch less fundy or less religious or it might also mean ATI is rebranding), yet Gil and Kelly are great parents who used the Ezzo method to train up a bunch of free thinkers! Wow! 

Such a difference!

.

 

 

SO true. Jessa and Jill are both living pretty dang fundy-lite lives. They are less likable than Erin, Alyssa, and Michaela; I agree. The Bates girls are more attractive, more down-home, and more personable. But to me, they seem--if anything--far more fundamentalist. Jessa and Jill both married very very Christian but fairly normal dudes (Derrick especially), both of whom went to REGULAR SCHOOL! I like me a Chad or a John Webster as much as anybody else, but they are steeped in it. If Jessa left fundamentalism, I can see Ben going along with it. Same with Derrick. But Chad...? Brandon...? No. They're cuter, sweeter-looking couples. But come on, let's be realistic.

[infooverload]

I think it is interesting there seems to be almost a cognitive dissonance in regards to Gothard and the "ministry" After all there would be no IBLP or ATI without him. The structure he created allowed for abuse to happen and from what we know there have not been fundamental changes. People have brought up the RCC scandals, but let's not forget scandals occur in all religious organizations. Scandals happen in secular organizations as well, but the responses are different. With religious scandals there is the component of repentance and wiping the slate clean. Compounded with a let's get rid of the problem or do in house "counseling" approach.

[RoseWilder]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the Bates used to appeal to me more than the Duggars because they could keep their shit together on social media better than the Duggars (Lawson, of course, seems to be doing his best to be as offensive as possible lately, but he used to behave like a rational person on his instagram page.) Josh Duggar has always been a smug jerk on his page, and every time I look on Jessa and Ben's instagram/twitter pages I feel a strong urge to drive down to Arkansas and smack them so hard they can't stand back up again. Meanwhile, the Bates seem friendly and inoffensive on social media with their cute babies and pictures of banana bread. 

I realize that makes them more dangerous than the Duggars, and I know they probably learned how to be media savvy from watching the Duggars fail at it spectacularly, but damn if it isn't startling that the Duggars can't even manage to hold it together on an instagram page after they've had so much exposure to the media. You would think they could have at least learned from their mistakes by now and put a tighter lid on things - but they're the mocking gift that keeps on giving with one misstep after another. 

[HermioneSparrow]

I don't see the fundie lite in Jessa and Jill's lives... If anything, Derick and Ben became just like the Duggars. I think the whole 'Bates are better than Duggars' or 'Are you crazy? Duggars are better than Bates' is a bunch of crap, they're just two sides of the same coin.

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

As far as truly breaking free, I think it will be the third generation, the grandchildren, who will be the ones to watch. 

(We will be waiting a long time for them to grow up though...) 

[Whoosh]

Warning - this post is absurdly "liberal".  I would ask more conservative FJers to read with a grain of salt (or substitute your least liked liberals as the characters LOL)

While I don't exactly think that Trump and Scalia have/had the same fundamental or core beliefs, the debate over Duggar v. Bates kind of makes me think of how people responded to Scalia's death and how people might talk about Trump v. Scalia.  For me, I found many of Scalia's views, etc to be absolutely soulless and abhorrent.  Yet I also could recognize some good qualities in the man and one of those was the fact that, despite his beliefs about all the people who were in his eyes "less than" him and people just like him, he didn't just spew and radiate horrid, nasty hate and disrespect for most of the population 24/7.  I wish he had never been in any type of decision making role and I wish he hadn't had the chance to influence the thoughts of anyone on issues that matter, but I can't bring myself to simply flat out dislike everything about him or to buy into the eye-for-an-eye kind of feelings of hate someone like him can easily pull for.  Then there is Trump - I just hate him.  Flat out.  I can't think of one redeeming quality the man has and that is that.  If he were to die tomorrow I most likely would just go silent - I certainly wouldn't take time to tip my hat to the man for any of his strengths. 

All that said, I think that people like Scalia are far more dangerous and have the opportunity to negatively impact far more people than a hate-spewing buffoon like Trump.  I think they are able to do so because of their strengths.  That just serves to encourage and spread the horrible, toxic underlying beliefs.  I pretty much feel the same way about this whole ongoing Bates v. Duggar debate.  While they are all alive and well and trying to win the hearts and minds of the nation - I find Gil Bates far more dangerous because of some of his strengths.  I won't be singing his praises any time soon if he is still pulling breath, walking among us, and actively harming people.  And I won't care if his daughters are wearing pants or his grandchild is watching Pooh bear so long as generations 2 and 3 are unwilling to acknowledge and denounce the toxic underbelly of their upbringing that is the basis of their "specialness" and "fame".

[screamingbuddha]

4 hours ago, JasonAldeanMG said:

They also decorated the nursery in Winnie the Pooh bedding and decorations. As you said, that is show Zach said he would let his child watch. I recently rewatched the Welcome Grandbaby Bates and IIRC they said Zach has three jobs? Any idea what the other two are? 

Alyssa also has her ears pierced which I recall her saying is something her family doesn't support. 

I thought I remembered Kelly saying something to the effect of they don't pierce because, with all of the little kids, someone's going to rip an ear off. Which makes sense. The other girls wear clip-ons.

[Imagine20]

Did we somehow segue into a Scalia discussion?