Bates Family Part 10

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Whether deformed or 'natures way', a loss is still a loss when that child was very much wanted and loved. For future reference, please do not attempt to minimise the emotional and physical pain that somebody goes through when experiencing a miscarriage.

I've never experienced a miscarriage, so I may not be the best person to speak on this... But SilverBeach didn't say anything inaccurate nor did I see anything that might minimize someone's loss. Maybe not the best choice of words or most sensitive wording, but what she said is true - the vast majority of early miscarriages (before a heartbeat is detected) are due to something wrong with the genetic makeup. Many women don't even realize they are pregnant at that time - they think they just got their period late. 

[actuallyjessica]

Wow, @SilverBeach... 2 replies to my post AND sending me a demanding PM? I apologise if my post was a misunderstanding on my end and you weren't inferring miscarriages are common, happen because the baby isn't fit for survival does not make the pain any better and because the topic is a rather sensitive one, I simply asked if you could please re-think your choice of words.

@VelociRapture I truly hope you do not have to experience the loss of a child at any term. What you're describing is a Chemical Pregnancy and whether you lose your baby at 5 weeks, 10 weeks, 30 weeks, a loss is a loss and seeing unhelpful comments such as "it's natures way" etc, do not ease any of the pain, which I hope were the intentions of such comment.

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Wow, @SilverBeach... 2 replies to my post AND sending me a demanding PM? I apologise if my post was a misunderstanding on my end and you weren't inferring miscarriages are common, happen because the baby isn't fit for survival does not make the pain any better and because the topic is a rather sensitive one, I simply asked if you could please re-think your choice of words.

You did not ask ANYTHING!!!!. I never spoke to the pain, my point was that women should not feel guilty about miscarrying. Of course it hurts. Have been there myself! You made a horrible assumption. You may have been triggered or something but my post was not the first one talking about miscarriage in this thread. Hell yes I am angry because what you said was insulting and this indeed a sensitive matter and I won't have my reputation sullied for no reason. Just how should I have reworded a FACTUAL comment? My obgyn told me this years ago and much information is available online. 

I pm'ed you so as not to derail the thread, but to heck with it. Please rethink unwarranted handslapping.

 

16 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I've never experienced a miscarriage, so I may not be the best person to speak on this... But SilverBeach didn't say anything inaccurate nor did I see anything that might minimize someone's loss. Maybe not the best choice of words or most sensitive wording, but what she said is true - the vast majority of early miscarriages (before a heartbeat is detected) are due to something wrong with the genetic makeup. Many women don't even realize they are pregnant at that time - they think they just got their period late. 

YES...many don't even know they are pregnant. Again, I don't see what was wrong with my words since I was stating FACTS. 

All I did was restate what my obgyn tole me years ago.

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Wow, @SilverBeach... 2 replies to my post AND sending me a demanding PM? I apologise if my post was a misunderstanding on my end and you weren't inferring miscarriages are common, happen because the baby isn't fit for survival does not make the pain any better and because the topic is a rather sensitive one, I simply asked if you could please re-think your choice of words.

@VelociRapture I truly hope you do not have to experience the loss of a child at any term. What you're describing is a Chemical Pregnancy and whether you lose your baby at 5 weeks, 10 weeks, 30 weeks, a loss is a loss and seeing unhelpful comments such as "it's natures way" etc, do not ease any of the pain, which I hope were the intentions of such comment.

Thanks for the clarification. I am aware of chemical pregnancies - I've been doing a ton of reading the past few days and have read a bit about miscarriage.

Based off how SB worded things, I figured she was referring to chemical pregnancies and not miscarriages that happen later on. 

And you are correct - there are women who mourn the loss of a child no matter when the loss occurs. Not all women mourn very early miscarriages, but those who do deserve the same respect and consideration shown as other women receive. Again, maybe she didn't choose the best words but I don't think she meant to hurt anyone in anyway at all.

I'm going to bow out now and go snuggle my puppy.

[MissBitters]

1 hour ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Concoct: to invent or develop (a plan, story, etc.) especially in order to trick or deceive someone.

"Concoct intelligent conversation" is a very interesting turn of phrase.

The Duggars use an electric cattle prod on their children. The Bates use a glossy wooden one. They receive equal "fuck you" treatment from me.

I actually meant "presenting an intelligent argument" but "concoct" was on the brain since I had just used it in a project at work. My sentiment remains the same despite the poor word choice. I don't care whether people hate or love fundies as long as they are civil about it. Belittling people for not hating the Bateses with the fire of a thousand suns adds nothing to the debate.

[refugee]

1 hour ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

Concoct: to invent or develop (a plan, story, etc.) especially in order to trick or deceive someone.

"Concoct intelligent conversation" is a very interesting turn of phrase.

The Duggars use an electric cattle prod on their children. The Bates use a glossy wooden one. They receive equal "fuck you" treatment from me.

What???

[THERetroGamerNY]

@refugee It wasn't a coded message.

@MissBitters Fair enough. A level-headed reply.

[SweetFellowshipper]

"Deformed" as a wording choice may have led to some of the confusion. That's pretty harsh. However, @SilverBeach, I understand what you meant now that you explained it. Miscarriages are painful but also often "natural."

Also agree on the BS of Josh's molestation being the result of nurture. I understand where that idea comes from, but realistically, millions of kids were raised throughout history across various cultures in ways that were just as, if not more, sexually restrictive than how Josh was raised. The vast majority of them did not molest their siblings. That's kind of a "Josh" problem. 

[SilverBeach]

2 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I truly hope you do not have to experience the loss of a child at any term. What you're describing is a Chemical Pregnancy and whether you lose your baby at 5 weeks, 10 weeks, 30 weeks, a loss is a loss and seeing unhelpful comments such as "it's natures way" etc, do not ease any of the pain, which I hope were the intentions of such comment.

 

2 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Based off how SB worded things, I figured she was referring to chemical pregnancies and not miscarriages that happen later on

My doctor made no distinction between chemical pregnancies and very early miscarriages, but I'm sixty so maybe terms have changed. Again, I WAS NOT MINIMIZING THE LOSS AND PAIN OF MISCARRIAGE. Damn it all, the thread was rolling along and next time if my comments are unhelpful don't read them. @actauallyjessica imposed her own sensitivities into what I actually posted, and I cannot help that she did that. Words on a page people, these are words on a page, ask for confirmation/clarification before assuming the worst! None of us are monsters, for heaven's sake!

@velocirapture, I wish you a very uneventful and happy and healthy pregnancy. 

12 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

And you are correct - there are women who mourn the loss of a child no matter when the loss occurs. Not all women mourn very early miscarriages, but those who do deserve the same respect and consideration shown as other women receive.

 I certainly never said they didn't! Anyone who got this out of my post was reading their own interpretation into it. 

[MissBitters]

9 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

@refugee It wasn't a coded message.

@MissBitters Fair enough. A level-headed reply.

Thanks @THERetroGamerNY! I've noticed this particular thread tends make people a little hotheaded. I sometimes have to step away from the forum for few days to remind myself to not take it too seriously.

[refugee]

8 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

@refugee It wasn't a coded message.

@MissBitters Fair enough. A level-headed reply.

No, but really, an electric cattle prod? Is that like using a taser or something on your kids? This is the first I've heard such a thing, so I was wondering if it was an exaggeration, or a metaphor comparing two evils. (I saw something on the wall of a xtian school once, a quote from somebody or other whose name I don't remember, that said, "When confronted with a choice of two evils, pick neither.")

So it wasn't a metaphor? Why haven't these people's children been taken away from them???

[SilverBeach]

8 minutes ago, GothardsType said:

"Deformed" as a wording choice may have led to some of the confusion. That's pretty harsh. However, @SilverBeach, I understand what you meant now that you explained it. Miscarriages are painful but also often "natural."

I definitely meant nothing inflammatory by using that word. My posting record shows no history of insensitivity.

If @actuallyjessica had simply voiced her thoughts without coming after me, there would not have been a problem.

[THERetroGamerNY]

@refugee It was a metaphor, silly. lol

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

What is the PC word for deformed now? I definitely meant nothing by using that word. My posts dhow no history of insensitivity.

I have had two pregnancy losses - one an early miscarriage and the other an ectopic pregnancy.

Your OP was factual.  It is very similar to the clinical descriptions I've read on miscarriage sites.

People seriously need to step back from this thread.  It's gotten toxic.

[SilverBeach]

Imma go eat my Oreo concrete mixer from Culver's Yum!

[SweetFellowshipper]

2 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

What is the PC word for deformed now? I definitely meant nothing by using that word. My posts dhow no history of insensitivity.

2 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

What is the PC word for deformed now? I definitely meant nothing by using that word. My posts dhow no history of insensitivity.

Lol, your use of "PC" indicates that you don't think you should have to think critically about what you're saying, as "PC" is often code for "I don't think I should have to change this term". If so many people were confused by what you said, I would suggest that perhaps something is confusing about it. It's not productive to jump down everyone's throats like you're doing; my reply to you was extremely measured and understanding, as well as fair. I even agreed with you in the latter half. The words you choose affect people's understanding of what you're saying, just pointing that out. It seems you'd prefer to pick a fight, though, so--I'm out, as this isn't a productive interaction.

[refugee]

3 minutes ago, THERetroGamerNY said:

@refugee It was a metaphor, silly. lol

Whew, thanks. I am incredibly literal.

[SilverBeach]

8 minutes ago, MissBitters said:

Thanks @THERetroGamerNY! I've noticed this particular thread tends make people a little hotheaded. I sometimes have to step away from the forum for few days to remind myself to not take it too seriously.

I just go back to JRod and the Rodriguii. We always get along there!

[Snarkle]

1 minute ago, refugee said:

Whew, thanks. I am incredibly literal.

They do, however, allegedly use plumbing line, which is its own sort of terrible, and rulers while blanket training (although they deny all of it).

[SweetFellowshipper]

5 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I have had two pregnancy losses - one an early miscarriage and the other an ectopic pregnancy.

Your OP was factual.  It is very similar to the clinical descriptions I've read on miscarriage sites.

People seriously need to step back from this thread.  It's gotten toxic.

I agree that it was quite factual. No clinical description would ever use the word "deformed," but the rest of it in terms of the pregnancy not being viable, yes. I thought the OP could have been taken a variety of ways and people were quick to draw conclusions, but, that's just me. 

[actuallyjessica]

3 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

I have had two pregnancy losses - one an early miscarriage and the other an ectopic pregnancy.

Your OP was factual.  It is very similar to the clinical descriptions I've read on miscarriage sites.

People seriously need to step back from this thread.  It's gotten toxic.

I highly agree this has gotten toxic. I posted twice, received multiple angry responses from @SilverBeach despite only interacting on this thread and one of those 2 posts from me was clarification and an apology. So AGAIN, I am SORRY! Just in case my first apology was missed!

[SilverBeach]

2 minutes ago, GothardsType said:

Lol, your use of "PC" indicates that you don't think you should have to think critically about what you're saying, as "PC" is often code for "I don't think I should have to change this term". If so many people were confused by what you said, I would suggest that perhaps something is confusing about it. It's not productive to jump down everyone's throats like you're doing; my reply to you was extremely measured and understanding, as well as fair. I even agreed with you in the latter half. The words you choose affect people's understanding of what you're saying, just pointing that out. It seems you'd prefer to pick a fight, though, so--I'm out, as this isn't a productive interaction.

Actually, I edited my post to remove that PC reference. As a Black woman of a certain age, I know what PC means. I wasn't aware many were confused, like SOS said my comment was FACTUAL. If it was not, please tell me how. Don' give a damn about fighting, I don't come to FJ for that. But I will defend myself when it is called for. Sorry for jumping down your throat. I haven't been provoked like this in a while. It works both ways...posters should be mindful of the words used to address other posters to avoid dust-ups. I

It was a serious question. If the term deformed is now offensive. I will not use it again. I just need to know what the proper term is, for real. I do care.

[MissBitters]

8 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I just go back to JRod and the Rodriguii. We always get along there!

Maybe JRod's divine purpose is to be a unifying force at Free Jinger

[SilverBeach]

8 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

I highly agree this has gotten toxic. I posted twice, received multiple angry responses from @SilverBeach despite only interacting on this thread and one of those 2 posts from me was clarification and an apology. So AGAIN, I am SORRY! Just in case my first apology was missed!

Cool

[refugee]

12 minutes ago, Snarkle said:

They do, however, allegedly use plumbing line, which is its own sort of terrible, and rulers while blanket training (although they deny all of it).

My "godly mentor" used the long glue sticks -- kept one above every doorway (is it called a lintel?) in their house.

The point was that it would inflict enough "discomfort" to get the child's attention, without leaving marks (which would be a sign of abuse -- they were big into "spanking is not abuse if it's done properly, in love, never in anger, and following the formula -- you send the kid to wait for you, which gives them time to think about their actions, and gives you time to calm down; you apply the discipline; you follow it with a hug, warm assurance of your love, scripture, and talking about making different choices" -- sounds workable, in theory, especially when you see the outward appearance of the families promoting it. I wasn't wise enough to see how toxic it was -- it was actually much milder than my non-churchgoing parents' bruising discipline had been. My mom broke a wooden spoon on my brother's backside, at least once, and maybe more than once). 

I bought one and gave myself an experimental light swat on the thigh. It stung so much, I threw the thing away.

I don't even know what plumbing line is. Sounds horrible.