What's with these jerk adoptive mothers?

[DaffyDill]

.../snipped

She should just admit that she got way in over her head and now do whatever she can to fix the situation, get effective parenting advice, and get on the road to mending the relationships with her daughters (at least the two oldest ones).

And there, in the bolded, is the problem I think. She's so tied up with herself as the saintly long suffering, but wonderful mother of four girls that she never will admit she's in over her head.

[Iamhispurity]

And there, in the bolded, is the problem I think. She's so tied up with herself as the saintly long suffering, but wonderful mother of four girls that she never will admit she's in over her head.

That is what is so sad about it. She might be a better mom with the right resources and help, if she would accept it.

I kinda feel like she would have needed to work through her own issues first before adopting them. The girls deserve help and love, but I feel like she is unable to provide that at the moment. And it would be so beneficial for all parties if she got help, her included.

[AliceInFundyland]

I absolutely don't want to sound judgy, I only want to understand better because as a foreigner I'm dumbstruck by this. Do you really feel that the only person who can help in this situation is a TV presenter? There aren't other more structured and non "deus ex machina" possibilities for a solution?   I am asking because you posted this three times and if at first I thought you were joking, by the third time I understood you were saying for serious and I really can't wrap my head around it. 

I know it's weird...but Oprah has achieved a sort of status where she has the wealth and clout (although, perhaps slightly diminished since she isn't on tv anymore) that if she turns her attention to a problem, she could probably raise awareness or funds or go talk in Washington or something. I'm pretty neutral about the woman, but I've made the joke before, "get Oprah to do it." She's just one of our cultural icons. And worshipped by quite a few. Plus, our political system is so screwed up that the most visible presidential candidate is also a pop culture icon. We need to overhaul our entire system of "getting help." 

[blessalessi]

What about Oprah? She'd help these girls out, right?

 

Show her crap to Oprah. She gets things done.

I really feel that Oprah Winfrey should be made aware of this family.  I think that she would do what's best for them.

If you feel this strongly then maybe you could look into it? I had no idea Oprah investigates child abuse and neglect.

If I lived in the same area, I would be looking at child protective services, and the daycare licensing body, to see if they would investigate

 

[Jeebusismycopilot]

I would love to know if this is a licenced daycare or if she is just flying under the radar. 

[JillyO]

I would love to know if this is a licenced daycare or if she is just flying under the radar. 

It is a licensed daycare. Someone found the website: http://www.appletreemanor.com/about.htm.

[blessalessi]

Oprah knew about and reported the Duggars.  We need better, stronger laws in this country, but we seem to be afraid of legislation with teeth.  

Sissy just turned 17, I think: http://fencingmama.blogspot.com/2015/11/sissy-is-17.html

Which is terrifying in its own way, as 18 year olds are denied many services offered to 17 year olds in the system.

You are right, my mistake sorry.

 Blossom is just turned 15 though.  Is that old enough to be a childcare worker?

This year, Apple Tree Manor officially becomes a family run business since two of my daughters will now be my assistants, according to licensing requirements.

 

[blessalessi]

I'm not quite sure what I am looking for but this is what I found when looking up California child care regulations.

https://daycare.com/california/

 

[FunFunFundie]

And there, in the bolded, is the problem I think. She's so tied up with herself as the saintly long suffering, but wonderful mother of four girls that she never will admit she's in over her head.

Exactly.

I went back and read several years' worth of posts, and the tone has changed so, so much.  In the beginning, she read tons of books, prepared as much as she could, and wanted desperately for a family.  She thought Sissy was amazing when she came (armchair internet I-am-not-a-doctor diagnosis says that that is pretty common if RAD is an issue - they form "bonds" with basic strangers but have trouble forming real bonds with non-strangers).  

And then, 4 girls with special needs in a matter of a couple of years.  I grew up with some adopted siblings with RAD, and it is intense and chaotic and hard.  I cannot imagine throwing 4 girls who had been through trauma together and expecting it to just be great.

Which gets me back to my original point - for many years, she referred to herself as "supermom."  I think she read the books, saw the potential pitfalls and caution needed with adoption, and felt like she was too good for that.  In the beginning, she doled out all sorts of advice about how her methods were making it so that her daughters were completely healed from their trauma.

And now that things are not going well, she's too wrapped up in her own image of herself to let it be her own fault - it has to be because they are bad, liars, fakers, etc.  It can't possibly be because adopting four high needs girls in three years (I think three years?  Maybe 4), as a single parent, was a bad idea.

[blessalessi]

Exactly.

I went back and read several years' worth of posts, and the tone has changed so, so much.  In the beginning, she read tons of books, prepared as much as she could, and wanted desperately for a family.  She thought Sissy was amazing when she came (armchair internet I-am-not-a-doctor diagnosis says that that is pretty common if RAD is an issue - they form "bonds" with basic strangers but have trouble forming real bonds with non-strangers).  
 

I thought the red flags were there from the outset.  She fantasised about "apple" for years, as if she were a real person and not just the possibility of a child represented by the adoption process.

She read books but related them to her own childhood trauma and ongoing needs.  The adoption process was started as an outcome of existing unhappiness and dysfunction.

[FunFunFundie]

I thought the red flags were there from the outset.  She fantasised about "apple" for years, as if she were a real person and not just the possibility of a child represented by the adoption process.

She read books but related them to her own childhood trauma and ongoing needs.  The adoption process was started as an outcome of existing unhappiness and dysfunction.

You're definitely right about the red flags - but I'm just surprised at how much the tone has changed.  I think she thought she would Do It Right, and so conventional wisdom wouldn't apply to her.  She was so sure that everything was awesome when Sissy came, even though - anybody who knows anything about adopting older children should at the VERY least be aware of the "mommy shopping" that goes on.

[alexandracabot]

I really feel that Oprah Winfrey should be made aware of this family.  I think that she would do what's best for them.

 

I don't understand why you have mentioned Oprah three times in this thread? Why do you think she'd be interested and what do you think she'd do?

[Safetyfirst]

No offence taken where none was intended. The reason I invoke the Oprah clause is that all other avenues seem to be stymied. 

 

CPS... No laws apparently broken, so they won't do anything.

Child labor laws... Apparently the same thing.

What's left? Maybe I overlooked another agency?

God? Doesn't seem to be helping.

Oprah has been very generous to those in need.

 

 

[DaisyD]

I started reading from the beginning of the blog. I'm up to a few months with just Jie Jie. She is a DEEPLY insecure person. She looks for signs that she's "doing it right" in every little thing. I think she's also a perfectionist. So when things don't go the way she thinks is right, she panics and goes into blame mode. She just seems like she's terrified and spends all her time trying to prove how awesome she is.

[Sera's Arrow]

Thanks for posting that link, blessalessi. I'm a bit shocked at the ratio numbers as they are posted. Especially the 4:1 for very young infants. I sometimes have issues with the 3:1 infant ratio here because I feel that babies require more individualized attention than other ages and it's important to give them that for optimal development. At times, it's hard to do with three of them. I can't imagine how it would be with one more. Here's my question pertaining to health and safety: how exactly does 1 person carry four infants outside to their playground without leaving one or two without supervision? Riddle me that, Batman. The toddler 6:1 isn't as shocking, it's 5:1 here and I find working with six isn't that different from five but uh, I'm trying to picture having 14 preschoolers to one of me and all I hear in my brain is a resounding "NOPENOPENOPE". Psssht. I'm good with the 8:1, thanks.

What I'd like to know is how Kimmie disciplines the daycare children and if her methods differ with them than the ones she uses on her own daughters. She calls a child "devious" if they giggle if another child falls. What would she call a child who gets into slap fights with other children? What would she call a toddler who bites and bites HARD if they get pissed off at a peer? What would she call a child who headbutted her in the schnozz on their first day of care because they were sad and angry? I know what I'd do in those situations but I'm not known for intentionally poisoning a person (salt water is toxic and I call shit like that for what it is) or restraining a child for days on end. I'm not sure what she'd do in the scenarios above however I can say with some certainty that I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't agree with it.   

[sawasdee]

UK laws for childminding:

www.pacey.org.uk/working-in-childcare/childminders/working-with-other-childminders/childminding-ratios/

with regard to how many qualified/registered workers per child.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

You don't know how lucky you are people. Here the ratio is 1:5 from 3 months of age to 12 months, then it's 1:8 till 3yrs of age, it can be 1:10 if there are only children between 2 and 3 years old.  

BTW now I understand why daycare costs so much in USA.

[Safetyfirst]

Why do I think Oprah would be interested in this case? She is always interested in this kind of stuff. She was abused herself, and it is a big thing with her.

What do I think she would do? Help the children! That's what Oprah does. She has mad resources and a big heart. She offered to put all the Duggar kids through college but the family did not take her up on it.

[IreneIssh]

Why do I think Oprah would be interested in this case? She is always interested in this kind of stuff. She was abused herself, and it is a big thing with her.

What do I think she would do? Help the children! That's what Oprah does. She has mad resources and a big heart. She offered to put all the Duggar kids through college but the family did not take her up on it.

How do you know that she offered that? I haven't heard that before. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just genuinely interested. Did they actually film the episode with Oprah or did she find out about the Josh business before it ever was filmed?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Why do I think Oprah would be interested in this case? She is always interested in this kind of stuff. She was abused herself, and it is a big thing with her.

What do I think she would do? Help the children! That's what Oprah does. She has mad resources and a big heart. She offered to put all the Duggar kids through college but the family did not take her up on it.

What makes you think that this mother would accept Oprah's eventual help since she doesn't even think she needs help?  

[Georgiana]

Even if Oprah or God himself got involved, what is the solution?

If you remove the children from this woman's care, where do they go?  Foster care?  These are children with special needs and RAD.  They need a stable environment they can predict.  Foster care would be one of the worst places for them AND would pretty much erase any sort of progress they have made since arriving.  It might even be more traumatic since they would almost certainly lose each other. 

There are homes for children with these needs, but they are often not set up to handle the language issue.  And again, since they all have different needs, they would very likely be split up.

Best case scenario is getting the state to FORCE this woman to utilize the resources that are available for these children and oversee their care.  But the truth is that there are not nearly enough resources to oversee this woman to the degree she needs to be overseen OR ensure that she follows the program if she doesn't want to.  And you can be sure she wont want to.  Maybe she could be persuaded to accept homecare several days a week, but getting in-home aid is INCREDIBLY difficult since it is so expensive.  I doubt she'd get approved.  I guess maybe Oprah could pay for that?  

[blessalessi]

Even if Oprah or God himself got involved, what is the solution?

If you remove the children from this woman's care, where do they go?  Foster care?  These are children with special needs and RAD.  They need a stable environment they can predict.  Foster care would be one of the worst places for them AND would pretty much erase any sort of progress they have made since arriving.  It might even be more traumatic since they would almost certainly lose each other. 

There are homes for children with these needs, but they are often not set up to handle the language issue.  And again, since they all have different needs, they would very likely be split up.

Best case scenario is getting the state to FORCE this woman to utilize the resources that are available for these children and oversee their care.  But the truth is that there are not nearly enough resources to oversee this woman to the degree she needs to be overseen OR ensure that she follows the program if she doesn't want to.  And you can be sure she wont want to.  Maybe she could be persuaded to accept homecare several days a week, but getting in-home aid is INCREDIBLY difficult since it is so expensive.  I doubt she'd get approved.  I guess maybe Oprah could pay for that?  

I don't think we know that they have RAD? I don't doubt that they have experienced significant trauma but several years has been at the hands of Selina who is unable to connect with people who do not meet her idealised standards. 

I genuinely don't understand the Oprah suggestion. Any involvement with the Duggars was only handled after they were fixed up to go on her show as the minor celebrities they were.

Does Oprah have a charity foundation, or some other means by which she actively gets involved with cases brought to her attention by third parties?

No snark intended, this is a genuine question.

[ViolaSebastian]

I don't think we know that they have RAD? I don't doubt that they have experienced significant trauma but several years has been at the hands of Selina who is unable to connect with people who do not meet her idealised standards. 

[respectfully snipped]

One of the things that I noticed throughout Kimi's blog was her inability to create normal expectations for her children.  All four of these girls have been through an unbelievable amount of physical and emotional trauma and she hasn't managed to adjust her expectations of them at all.  When she first adopted Jie Jie, she didn't lament the fact that Jie Jie felt bad about herself or was in pain due to her feet, no, it was that she'd never be a Prima ballerina.  Even though Jie Jie loved to dance, Kimi didn't see the point in putting her in dance classes unless she could be the best at it and make a career in it.  There was another entry where Kimi was upset that Jie Jie couldn't be a gymnast as talented as one of her friend's daughters.  Never mind that children can be less than stellar at an activity and still reap rewards from engaging in it.  I've sat through tons of boring, badly choreographed dance routines without pointed toes and t-ball games where only one child manages to hit the ball and runs the bases in the wrong order.  And that's okay, because the kids in my family that were involved in those activities made friends, exercised their bodies, engaged in teamwork, worked hard, and learned something about themselves and I will support them in doing that because it's helping them develop into adults.  Her expectations for her girls are just way, way too high, and she has set them up for failure in her own mind.  

[pnwgypsy]

It is a licensed daycare. Someone found the website: http://www.appletreemanor.com/about.htm.

Earlier in the thread someone posted the most recent inspection report for the daycare.

[Maggie Mae]

There was a post about meeting with an attachment specialist about Sissy who diagnosed her with RAD. I can't find it now though. 

 

Jie Jie's last birthday had 3-4 gifts to unwrap but no description of what the boxes contained. 

http://fencingmama.blogspot.com/2015/02/11-years-old.html