Jill & Jessa specials coming - MERGED

[JenniferJuniper]

I didn't know this specifically but I do know that in general there are more female twins than male. I belive in general female embryos/fetuses (fetusi?) are more "sturdy" than male and so do do better on average at every stage, I've heard that it has something to do with having two X chromosomes so a full back up set so to speak but I have no idea if that's true. I didn't know about the differences in ethnicities, but interesting that black populations also have high chances of twins.

Twins are more likely to be born premature, so being female helps there. The double XX gives females a genetic advantage for certain conditions, which may increase odds of early survival as well.

Female conjoined twins are three times as likely to survive as males, probably because these twins have far more challenges than typical sets of twins and that girl "sturdiness" is that much more helpful.

[WhyNotJulie]

They have a right to feel they want HOWEVER they are on a public platform and downplayed it on NATIONAL NEWS. THAT was a slap in the face to victims all over who think, from watching Jill and Jessa, we are just supposed to smile, forgive and forget, and move on, be happy. Victims still processing their ordeal might even be questioning if something is wrong with them because they are not being happy, giggly, and smiley like Jessa and Jill about it.

Ok let's all take a step back. These girls grew up with this brainwashing; their expression of forgiveness and the way they handled the abuse backlash was how they actually feel. We shouldn't be blaming these two victims for how they personally have responded to it. If anything, you can blame Jim Bob & J'Chelle for how they've TAUGHT them to respond to it.

For lack of a better way of putting this, Jill & Jessa don't owe you or ANYONE a specific response to their abuse. They were on national news, yes, and they reacted the way that they honestly felt. They weren't secretly feeling hurt, but wanting to just stick it to all the abuse survivors out there by pretending it's no big deal. They aren't more guilty for feeling how they feel on national news than they would have been in their own homes. Be mad at JB & J'Ch, but honestly I don't understand the anger at the girls right now.

[Four is Enough]

I AM a degreed medical professional so I feel qualified to weigh in on the "medical slang" issue.

My nursing school education began in 1972, so I have seen many, many charts in my day.

In pediatrics, I have seen diagnoses such as "FLK" (funny looking kid) ETA: not to describe an ugly child or such; used to describe a child with a physical anomaly as yet undiagnosed.

FTT (Failure to thrive) This one isn't so insulting, but,,

There are others that I can't remember, since it is early and I need caffeine.

HA- Hygenic Arrest. (the beyond filthy patient, and yes, I have received patients in which the very first doctor's order was "Bathe this patient immediately.")

In the adult realm, my first exposure to LOL was "LOL IN NAD" Little old lady in no acute distress.... and yes, this was written on many a chart.

Abbreviations can seem insulting when they're actually not.. "SOB" for instance, means shortness of breath, okay? :lol:

Frankly, I prefer the examples of my early days in nursing to those written now, merely because of the verbiage required nowadays to describe the same patient. I understood LOL in NAD, but we can't use that now. LOL might be mildly insulting, but now we'd have to write: "70 year old female who looks her stated age, demonstration no symptoms of her admitting complaint."

We can't say "emaciated." We have to say, "appears to be underweight for height."

While I am completely behind making sure there is an accurate description of the patient in the chart, I do not appreciate making sure that every single thing said has to be scrutinized for political correctness. Go ahead. Have at me.

ETA: In the day, these phrases and abbreviations were not shared with patient and/or family. They were used in admission diagnosis, and inside the chart.

[SilverBeach]

Jill and Jessa are no longer girls. They are married women and one is a mother and one is about to be a mother. At what point do they become responsible for perpetuating the hate and narrow mindedness of gothardism?

[lascuba]

While I agree that medical professionals need to watch their words when speaking to patients and their families, let's not give parents shit for using less than flattering terms, okay? People deal with stress in different ways and if a mom who's dealt with the stress of a NICU baby wants to call her kid a wimpy white boy, I don't anyone should call her out on it.

[WhyNotJulie]

I am absolutely not a leg humper or even someone who likes Jill and Jessa very much. I've long hated the Duggars because I think the way they raise their children is downright abusive, aside from the physical punishment.

But I think it's grossly unfair to criticize Jill and Jessa for downplaying what happened or covering for Josh. There was and is absolutely nothing else they could do. Remember that they were raised in isolation and taught to bring all thoughts to their parents, who were all knowing and who are absolute authority figures. They never had anywhere else to turn. They were never taught to talk to a trusted adult outside the family and there was never a trusted adult outside of the cult that they could have talked to. They have only one perspective and no ability to look at the situation from a different perspective.

They were programmed from birth to obey their parents unquestioningly. They were told what to think and how to act at all times. They probably don't even know how they really feel. But they have somehow adapted psychologically and found a way to cope with the situation. Everyone finds a way to cope, even if that way is self-destructive, self-harming behavior. Their way was probably to minimize what happened and do everything possible to avoid it happening to them again and try to protect their younger sisters.

When a person is raised with very controlling parents, it's very hard to break away from that, even if you recognize it as it's happening. It creates dependence and a belief that you can't handle anything, you need to let your parents handle it. Even though they're married and supposedly on their own, they aren't really. They live in houses owned by their parents and are dependent on them and the family business for income. And they're still psychologically dependent on their parents. I'm sure that when the molestation story broke, JB and Michelle told their daughters how they felt about what was happening. And I'm sure that Jill and Jessa were told exactly what to say in that Megyn Kelly interview.

If they step out of line, they lose everything they've even known. Their family and their community will shun them. They don't have an outside group of friends to turn to and being cut off from their family and and the only community they've ever known might just break them psychologically.

Also, Josh is not a one dimensional character, the child molester, to them. He's their brother, someone they've know all their lives. They've seen his good parts and probably believe that this is painful for him as well.

It's different when you know the person. I was once in a situation where a group that I was a part of, a group that I was close to and that was very important to me, was looking at someone outside the group as a villain. I understood why they were doing that. They didn't really know him, they were hurt and angry and wanted someone to blame. They thought he wasn't being adequately blamed or punished. I knew the villain, I'd known him for years. But he wasn't a villain and he was suffering more than any of the people who were pointing fingers at him. But I was already being looked at sideways because of the expectation that I might defend him or side with him. And when I tried to share my perspective, it did not go over well.

Josh is not just a villain to them. And Jill and Jessa are just not capable of standing up and turning their backs on the families and community to vilify him. It would be far more harmful to them than whatever psychological adaptations they've made to deal with the situation as it is.

Whew, I didn't set out to write such a long diatribe. This hits a little close to home, as I was raised by very controlling parents who actually shared a lot of the non-religious beliefs of the fundies. At an early age I thought some of the things my parents tried to teach me were just crazy and I knew they were extremely controlling. I had plenty of outside influences to counter it all and yet it was still so hard to break away and shed that conditioning. I knew it was going on, I was eager to get away from it and it was still so difficult and took a very long time.

So even though I think Jill and Jessa are kind of awful people, I have sympathy for them and their situation. And I don't think they should be blamed for anything, including the way they react to the situation.

Ok this is a much more eloquent way of describing what I tried to get across in my post. THANK YOU.

[violynn]

This ^^^^^^^

Also, this was TEN years ago for Jessa and Jill. They were asleep during the fondling Josh did to them, they weren't subjected to the genital fondling Josh did to the younger sisters, and they only knew anything had happened when their parents told them, if the interview is true, rather than the theory that Jill came to JB and M and told.

My sexual assault was three years ago, and while it still hits me in many ways, it is nothing compared to my reaction when it happened or even the first year, thank you therapy! I hope ten years down the road I'll be even more healed and able to deal with it all.

Jessa and Jill's interview was horrible to watch because yes, they defended their brother and dismissed the harm done to them all in the way they talked about his actions. But no one watching that interview then or now is doing so with ten years of coping with the subject under our belt.

Ugh, I've completely screwed up my explanation of my opinion. Goes to show what no sleep in 36 hours will do to your mental processes.

Sponsors for the specials, maybe. Unbroken link because inquisitr

http://www.inquisitr.com/2449404/duggar ... o-refuses/

[batuityma]

While I agree that medical professionals need to watch their words when speaking to patients and their families, let's not give parents shit for using less than flattering terms, okay? People deal with stress in different ways and if a mom who's dealt with the stress of a NICU baby wants to call her kid a wimpy white boy, I don't anyone should call her out on it.

Agreed. My anger was misdirected. I apologized.

I have chosen a different approach to dealing with slang terms used by medical professionals directed toward my child. That doesn't mean I should lash out at other parents who have a different opinion than me. I shocked myself last night with the over-the-top vitriol that I wrote in that post. Having a medically complex kid is hard. I'm dealing with it right now and apparently I'm not handling it in the most constructive way. I should be supporting others in the same position not attacking. I really am sorry.

[Buzzard]

While its true that, in general, "all publicity is good publicity," I dont think thats the case here. The Duggars have covered up sexual assault, they utilize questionable child rearing practices, Josh..., Jill posted a link to a church service blaming women for when men cheat, Jessa posts hate-filled rants targeted at other religions, Jill has utilized her "missionary" funds in a questionable manner, Jessa is hocking for gift cards... these people come off terribly.

While this may be good for getting eyeballs ON the show, I dont know that its favorable for advertisers to associate their product as condoning this behavior. The more people know about the Duggars, the more repulsive they are. It is presumed by the general public (not the humpers) that advertisers know what they are supporting and, therefore, are totes kool with this misogynistic, abusive, lying, bullshit.

[luv2laugh]

While its true that, in general, "all publicity is good publicity," I dont think thats the case here. The Duggars have covered up sexual assault, they utilize questionable child rearing practices, Josh..., Jill posted a link to a church service blaming women for when men cheat, Jessa posts hate-filled rants targeted at other religions, Jill has utilized her "missionary" funds in a questionable manner, Jessa is hocking for gift cards... these people come off terribly.

While this may be good for getting eyeballs ON the show, I dont know that its favorable for advertisers to associate their product as condoning this behavior. The more people know about the Duggars, the more repulsive they are. It is presumed by the general public (not the humpers) that advertisers know what they are supporting and, therefore, are totes kool with this misogynistic, abusive, lying, bullshit.

Buzzard do you know if there are any petitions going around to stop these specials? I cannot believe TLC is doing this :angry-banghead: :cray-cray: .

[NotALoserLikeYou]

They have the right to feel any way...but they pretty much lied in their interview, only talking about the cases where the girls were asleep. "None of the victims even knew" well yeah for THOSE ones but there were instances where a couple of them were awake. It is insulting to THEM to not even acknowledge the seriousness/pain caused by those experiences. And he wasn't just curious about girls, that's some bullshit.

[quiversR4hunting]

They have the right to feel any way...but they pretty much lied in their interview, only talking about the cases where the girls were asleep. "None of the victims even knew" well yeah for THOSE ones but there were instances where a couple of them were awake. It is insulting to THEM to not even acknowledge the seriousness/pain caused by those experiences. And he wasn't just curious about girls, that's some bullshit.

To add to your thoughts-

1. I don't believe one word JB and J'M say about what happened to the girls.

2. I think stories become truth if told enough (in any family). So if JB and J'M said it was over the clothes while you were sleeping enough times (depending on the age of the girls) they will believe that story as the truth.

3. Since sexual sin is the woman's fault for being a temptress, minimizing the truth would have helped the girls heal (initially). I doubt any of the girls have actually worked thru all the issues with the abuse and their parents cover up of the entire thing.

[Buzzard]

Buzzard do you know if there are any petitions going around to stop these specials? I cannot believe TLC is doing this :angry-banghead: :cray-cray: .

From what I can tell people are contacting the advertisers individually, which is probably better than a petition. This was posted on a friend's facebook page and seems correct for the most part. I do not see Directv and know they have advertised in the past.

eta - I did not break the links because these companies need to know that they are being watched.

Pure Leaf Ice Tea http://www.facebook.com/PureLeaf Contact info on here https://cu.pepsico.com/pureleaf

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The ones in red are the more urgent ones because they apparently refused to pull out when the child molestation came out.

[batuityma]

The ones in red are the more urgent ones because they apparently refused to pull out when the child molestation came out.

Wondering if the opposite might be true. If the ones in red didn't bother to listen with the first scandal maybe they are lost causes so to speak. I mean, not trying to discourage anyone from contacting them but, wow, that is a long list. If people are willing to put effort into contacting every sponsor I'm all for it. But maybe if someone doesn't have the time to contact all the sponsors, it might make more sense to appeal to the ones that were more receptive in the past?

Last time the focus of the scandal was a child molester. This time it might be harder to get people to listen because some see Jill and Jessa as innocent victims. Harder to stir up outrage in those with that opinion.

Just a thought.

[SassyPants]

To add to your thoughts-

1. I don't believe one word JB and J'M say about what happened to the girls.

2. I think stories become truth if told enough (in any family). So if JB and J'M said it was over the clothes while you were sleeping enough times (depending on the age of the girls) they will believe that story as the truth.

3. Since sexual sin is the woman's fault for being a temptress, minimizing the truth would have helped the girls heal (initially). I doubt any of the girls have actually worked thru all the issues with the abuse and their parents cover up of the entire thing.

Now, let's look at Jinger's speech at the Seewald's rehearsal dinner...all that talk of being unworthy. I'd say based on Jinger's own words, Jinger is not totally over whatever has happened to her.

[FundieFarmer]

A long time ago my favorite show was "The Operation" on TLC. I'm talking about 1997 or so. I saw a knee replacement, a caesarean section, a vasectomy reversal, etc.

That was real learning! Funny though, because even at that time I could never stand to watch heart (or eye) surgery. The C-section almost made me sick! Then I had a child with Tetralogy of Fallot. After that I had to have an emergency c-section to deliver my month early white boy, he held up his stereotype by being super whimpy and staying in the level III NICU for a decent amount of time.

edited to say that, I did learn some useful info from TLC back when they actually spread knowledge.

I have Tet too! Hi, Elvis Presby!

I wish TLC would return to things that were actually about learning, too. It's really unfortunate because now they are essentially just reality shows of slightly-different people, and they're not even respectful about how they portray most of these individuals. Except the Duggars. They worship at the throne of the Duggars, and here we are again with Jessa and Jill.

I won't be watching unless I'm couch-ridden and have nothing better to do. I count clipping my dog's nails, scrubbing my floors with a toothbrush, and polishing silver among better things to do. But I guess if all of that is done... ;)

[Buzzard]

Wondering if the opposite might be true. If the ones in red didn't bother to listen with the first scandal maybe they are lost causes so to speak. I mean, not trying to discourage anyone from contacting them but, wow, that is a long list. If people are willing to put effort into contacting every sponsor I'm all for it. But maybe if someone doesn't have the time to contact all the sponsors, it might make more sense to appeal to the ones that were more receptive in the past?

Last time the focus of the scandal was a child molester. This time it might be harder to get people to listen because some see Jill and Jessa as innocent victims. Harder to stir up outrage in those with that opinion.

Just a thought.

I guess it can go either way. I'd say focus on the companies that you use or have a relationship with. My thing is that some may consider the "josh" issue separate from the "new" show. We need to focus on the actions of Jill and Jessa, their postings, their grifting, and the cult. My hope is that the ones that already made a decision on Josh and may be more up to speed than those who stuck their heads in the sand.

[Elvis Presby]

Agreed. My anger was misdirected. I apologized.

I have chosen a different approach to dealing with slang terms used by medical professionals directed toward my child. That doesn't mean I should lash out at other parents who have a different opinion than me. I shocked myself last night with the over-the-top vitriol that I wrote in that post. Having a medically complex kid is hard. I'm dealing with it right now and apparently I'm not handling it in the most constructive way. I should be supporting others in the same position not attacking. I really am sorry.

It is fine, really.

No doctor ever told me my son had WWB, but I had twin nephews that were born 6 weeks early back 20 years ago or so and the term was used then and this is how I first heard the term. Even though the struggle of these late term preemie white boys is exactly the same as it has always been, medical professionals are much more guarded in the phrases they use to communicate with parents than they were in the past. In any event, the terms that are used to describe medical issues with my children have not mattered to me nearly as much as dealing with the actual medical conditions. My youngest, the preemie, is in 1st grade now and he has extreme ADHD. I finally gave in and got an IEP for him because he has really struggled with behavior and impulse control at school. For a long time I resisted because I didn't want him to be "labeled". Eventually I came around to deciding that it was worth it for him to have help on a day to day basis and not deny him that help based on a fear that someone might one day make fun of him or call him names.

My 2 boys have really been through a lot. I have seen the inside of a NICU and a CICU enough to last me a lifetime, but alas, my son with a heart defect will always need to have "work" done on his heart so there will be more visits. Instead of getting down and depressed about it I just remember how lucky I am that medical advancements are such that a) my son with Tetralogy of Fallot is alive, b) I was able to get an emergency c-section with my preemie before he died, and c) my preemie was born in a hospital with a level III NICU and he was able to be attended to immediately upon seeing he was struggling so with breathing.

As to the bolded above, I did not call my son that name and I didn't even use that term. :naughty:

[Elvis Presby]

I have Tet too! Hi, Elvis Presby!

I wish TLC would return to things that were actually about learning, too. It's really unfortunate because now they are essentially just reality shows of slightly-different people, and they're not even respectful about how they portray most of these individuals. Except the Duggars. They worship at the throne of the Duggars, and here we are again with Jessa and Jill.

I won't be watching unless I'm couch-ridden and have nothing better to do. I count clipping my dog's nails, scrubbing my floors with a toothbrush, and polishing silver among better things to do. But I guess if all of that is done... ;)

:dance: I love meeting other Tet people! Hope you are doing well!

[Mothership]

I am absolutely not a leg humper or even someone who likes Jill and Jessa very much. I've long hated the Duggars because I think the way they raise their children is downright abusive, aside from the physical punishment.

But I think it's grossly unfair to criticize Jill and Jessa for downplaying what happened or covering for Josh. There was and is absolutely nothing else they could do. Remember that they were raised in isolation and taught to bring all thoughts to their parents, who were all knowing and who are absolute authority figures. They never had anywhere else to turn. They were never taught to talk to a trusted adult outside the family and there was never a trusted adult outside of the cult that they could have talked to. They have only one perspective and no ability to look at the situation from a different perspective.

They were programmed from birth to obey their parents unquestioningly. They were told what to think and how to act at all times. They probably don't even know how they really feel. But they have somehow adapted psychologically and found a way to cope with the situation. Everyone finds a way to cope, even if that way is self-destructive, self-harming behavior. Their way was probably to minimize what happened and do everything possible to avoid it happening to them again and try to protect their younger sisters.

When a person is raised with very controlling parents, it's very hard to break away from that, even if you recognize it as it's happening. It creates dependence and a belief that you can't handle anything, you need to let your parents handle it. Even though they're married and supposedly on their own, they aren't really. They live in houses owned by their parents and are dependent on them and the family business for income. And they're still psychologically dependent on their parents. I'm sure that when the molestation story broke, JB and Michelle told their daughters how they felt about what was happening. And I'm sure that Jill and Jessa were told exactly what to say in that Megyn Kelly interview.

If they step out of line, they lose everything they've even known. Their family and their community will shun them. They don't have an outside group of friends to turn to and being cut off from their family and and the only community they've ever known might just break them psychologically.

Also, Josh is not a one dimensional character, the child molester, to them. He's their brother, someone they've know all their lives. They've seen his good parts and probably believe that this is painful for him as well.

It's different when you know the person. I was once in a situation where a group that I was a part of, a group that I was close to and that was very important to me, was looking at someone outside the group as a villain. I understood why they were doing that. They didn't really know him, they were hurt and angry and wanted someone to blame. They thought he wasn't being adequately blamed or punished. I knew the villain, I'd known him for years. But he wasn't a villain and he was suffering more than any of the people who were pointing fingers at him. But I was already being looked at sideways because of the expectation that I might defend him or side with him. And when I tried to share my perspective, it did not go over well.

Josh is not just a villain to them. And Jill and Jessa are just not capable of standing up and turning their backs on the families and community to vilify him. It would be far more harmful to them than whatever psychological adaptations they've made to deal with the situation as it is.

Whew, I didn't set out to write such a long diatribe. This hits a little close to home, as I was raised by very controlling parents who actually shared a lot of the non-religious beliefs of the fundies. At an early age I thought some of the things my parents tried to teach me were just crazy and I knew they were extremely controlling. I had plenty of outside influences to counter it all and yet it was still so hard to break away and shed that conditioning. I knew it was going on, I was eager to get away from it and it was still so difficult and took a very long time.

So even though I think Jill and Jessa are kind of awful people, I have sympathy for them and their situation. And I don't think they should be blamed for anything, including the way they react to the situation.

I appreciate that you, like many others on this site, are careful not to victim-blame. I think it's easy to cross that line in our frustration in general about the Duggars.

They definitely deserve our sympathy as victims and even members of FJ who may have experienced sexual abuse in their own lives can't really know what they're feeling or thinking.

That being said, I also think you give Jill and Jessa and undeserved free pass. I'd like to think that had they remained silent, we would have acknowledged that we had no business prying. Up to this point, we have refrained from further speculation about the identify of the other victims and their decisions to remain silent.

But, what remains the most interesting is that the two victims who chose to come forward were the two who were already apparently in negotiations for a spin off show. Furthermore, they weren't the two that were still under the headship of JB, but under knew headships. So, controlling parents were less likely an issue. I'd like to think that Derrick, anyway, could have asserted his new authority and said--"say nothing".

They also had to have been aware of the the push back after the Kelly interview (Are you reading this now Jessa/Jill?)

Yet, they chose to participate in that pathetic excuse for a documentary on TLC.

As much as we'd like to believe that JB controls everything, these adults and their new headships are having to sign the contracts.

I'm sorry that they were victims, I'm sorry that they have pathetic excuses for parents. I wish that they would seek the professional help that was denied them in the past.

And, I wish they'd stay off the air. Whether intentional or not, their actions now do send a message of victim blaming.

[ClaraOswin]

This ^^^^^^^

Also, this was TEN years ago for Jessa and Jill. They were asleep during the fondling Josh did to them, they weren't subjected to the genital fondling Josh did to the younger sisters, and they only knew anything had happened when their parents told them, if the interview is true, rather than the theory that Jill came to JB and M and told.

My sexual assault was three years ago, and while it still hits me in many ways, it is nothing compared to my reaction when it happened or even the first year, thank you therapy! I hope ten years down the road I'll be even more healed and able to deal with it all.

Jessa and Jill's interview was horrible to watch because yes, they defended their brother and dismissed the harm done to them all in the way they talked about his actions. But no one watching that interview then or now is doing so with ten years of coping with the subject under our belt.

Ugh, I've completely screwed up my explanation of my opinion. Goes to show what no sleep in 36 hours will do to your mental processes.

Sponsors for the specials, maybe. Unbroken link because inquisitr

http://www.inquisitr.com/2449404/duggar ... o-refuses/

I thought one of them was in the laundry room during at least once incident. They would have been awake for that.

And younger sisterS, plural? I thinkit was just the 1 younger one and then the 3 older ones.

I also think the police report mentioned one of the older girls coming to their parents about at least one incident. Not sure if it's an older victim or the older one who wasn't a victim.

As far as them having 10 years of coping under their belt....that's technically could be true. And everyone copes in different ways, of course. But as far as we know, these girls had no ACTUAL counseling to help them cope. In their religion, they victim blame. So their way of dealing and coping was most likely very unhealthy.

[Srilaura]

They weren't secretly feeling hurt, but wanting to just stick it to all the abuse survivors out there by pretending it's no big deal. They aren't more guilty for feeling how they feel on national news than they would have been in their own homes.

How do we know how they really feel?? How do we know they're not pretending?

[Graceshepard]

Perhaps it's worth putting a list of names up on Instagram and tagging those companies. Nothing like social media to get companies' attention.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I found my copy of In Touch magazine yesterday when I was cleaning out a room, the issue that talks more about the scandal after the Megyn Kelly interview.

I re-read the article, and it said that Josh cornered one of the younger girls in the laundry room and put his hand up her dress.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Buzzard, thanks for putting up the list?

But...do we know that the companies in red outright refused to pull their ads? Or did they just ignore it/assume the show would be cancelled.

But either way, for shame Capital One! I liked your no foreign transaction fees!