Jill & Jessa specials coming - MERGED

[calimojo]

what is she saying about it?

[iweartanktops]

what is she saying about it?

I only caught the tail end and then it was Dr. Drew. They basically showed clips of Jessa and Jill on Fox News and talked about how rehearsed they sounded. And how they sound more like teenagers than married women. They all but called the family a cult. They mentioned how incredibly fucked up (can't remember the phrase they used) it is that in public the Duggar boys are forced to stare at the ground upon hearing "Nike," in order to avoid being "defrauded." ugh. They really emphasized the importance of Josh getting treatment in a scientifically research based facility rather than whatever religious place the family claims he's in. And they expressed significant outrage over these "specials" making money off of the scandals. They also talked more about the girls' seemingly polarized emotions following the public news of the molestations; Jessa on Fox minimizing his behavior and weeks later siding with her FIL. They are speculating on whether we will see any of that on the show. I lean towards no way.

ETA- sorry this is so random! I was just typing everything I remember them saying. I don't watch TV very often.

[zygote373]

This was 3 - 4 years later. I'd take everything in that police report with a large grain of salt. They couldn't pretend nothing had happened - too many girls involved - but it's likely the Duggar girls were heavily coached and the story about Josh confessing first could very well be a lie to make it seem as though Josh was repentant and understood what he did was wrong.

I totally agree that the police report needs to be taken with a grain of salt and is likely a downplay. I was just responding to people who were unsure what the report said since the first one was ambiguous.

I find it possible that he did confess first out of guilt, despite the fact that he wouldn't/couldn't stop. But I think you're right that it's also possible he was prompted to confess because he got caught, or even that his confession is made up.

[RosyDaisy]

May she give birth to sons and only sons, a dozen boys for Jill!

Having all sons doesn't mean one of them will not abuse a younger sibling. That's for all families, not just the Dillards.

[BackseatMom]

Having all sons doesn't mean one of them will not abuse a younger sibling.

But it does mean an awful lot of work without any sister moms to raise the littles.

[RosyDaisy]

My own personal guess is that the molestations were deliberately downplayed and that Josh did far more than the Duggars would ever admit. Recall that by late '06 they had already been featured in two TLC specials and were probably hoping/angling for a series. They needed Josh at home.

THIS!!! There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Josh is a predator. It was way more than mild inappropriate touching over the clothes. There are more victims out there. I'll also add that TLC had to know something was very wrong.

And then BOOM! along comes the AM/cheating/porn addiction scandal. That IMO is being used as a smoke screen to divert attention away from the molestations, which is by far the worst of Josh's actions.

[Fundie Bunny]

Having all sons doesn't mean one of them will not abuse a younger sibling. That's for all families, not just the Dillards.

Likely Izzy Dillard won't grown up to be a moleste, but his mama already tretas him like one talking about safe guards. Having just brothers will save him from a life of misery

[DuggaredOut]

If people are going to continue repeating details from that police report, I wish they'd make sure they're paraphrasing it accurately. From the actual report [TRIGGER WARNING]:

Narrative #7: This girl says she "was asleep in the living room and 'half-way' woke up." She explains that she thought Josh wanted a blanket. She says that she and Josh were both clothed and that she can't remember anything else that happened.

Narrative #8: This girl starts by saying that she "did not remember much." When questioned further, she talks about how Josh started by giving her a back scratch and then progressed to molesting her under her clothes: "[she] said [he] pulled [her] shirt up and touched [her]."

Narrative #9: This is the girl who is clearly very young and talks about how Josh molested her during storytime.

Narrative #10: This girl starts crying when asked about the molestation and describes being in the laundry room when it happened. There are a lot of pronouns redacted, but it seems that Josh put his hand under her skirt. She repeats several times that she can't remember exactly what he did. She also says that she "does not totally trust" Josh anymore.

The reason I'm laying this out here is because some people are saying that Jill and Jessa were both asleep and have no memory of what happened to them. But the narratives above clearly show that three out of the four girls were awake and did remember at least some of what happened. That means that when Jill and Jessa went on camera and said they both slept through the whole thing and had no idea about it until they were told, at least one of them was lying. Also, things are being said about Josh's "progression." He was pretty bad from the start--again, three of the four girls were conscious, and he knew it. He was interacting with them at the time.

[Buzzard]

I only caught the tail end and then it was Dr. Drew. They basically showed clips of Jessa and Jill on Fox News and talked about how rehearsed they sounded. And how they sound more like teenagers than married women. They all but called the family a cult. They mentioned how incredibly fucked up (can't remember the phrase they used) it is that in public the Duggar boys are forced to stare at the ground upon hearing "Nike," in order to avoid being "defrauded." ugh. They really emphasized the importance of Josh getting treatment in a scientifically research based facility rather than whatever religious place the family claims he's in. And they expressed significant outrage over these "specials" making money off of the scandals. They also talked more about the girls' seemingly polarized emotions following the public news of the molestations; Jessa on Fox minimizing his behavior and weeks later siding with her FIL. They are speculating on whether we will see any of that on the show. I lean towards no way.

ETA- sorry this is so random! I was just typing everything I remember them saying. I don't watch TV very often.

Interesting that Nancy changed her tune! She went on and on about how "wholesome" the Duggars were and how wrong it was to drag them into it. I cant stand Nancy Grace and her Duggar segments pissed me off more than her usual over hyping and fake drama.

[nokidsmom]

I have no problem believing that 14-year-old Josh was both effed up enough to molest his siblings, AND brainswashed enough to be the one to confess to his parents.

I find this believeable as well.

[Trynn]

I think it was believable as well, even its not what really happened. Josh may indeed have regretted what he was doing to his sisters, and found himself unable to stop.

Maybe there was one time when he did come crying to his parents. I also believe there were times when one of the victims went crying to somebody.

I believe it's a mishmash of both, which makes the way his parents handled it even more tragic. I do believe that at least at one point Josh really did want help, and his parents slapped a Jesus flavored bandaid on it.

We all can see how THAT worked out....

[HarleyQuinn]

If people are going to continue repeating details from that police report, I wish they'd make sure they're paraphrasing it accurately. From the actual report [TRIGGER WARNING]:

Narrative #7: This girl says she "was asleep in the living room and 'half-way' woke up." She explains that she thought Josh wanted a blanket. She says that she and Josh were both clothed and that she can't remember anything else that happened.

Narrative #8: This girl starts by saying that she "did not remember much." When questioned further, she talks about how Josh started by giving her a back scratch and then progressed to molesting her under her clothes: "[she] said [he] pulled [her] shirt up and touched [her]."

Narrative #9: This is the girl who is clearly very young and talks about how Josh molested her during storytime.

Narrative #10: This girl starts crying when asked about the molestation and describes being in the laundry room when it happened. There are a lot of pronouns redacted, but it seems that Josh put his hand under her skirt. She repeats several times that she can't remember exactly what he did. She also says that she "does not totally trust" Josh anymore.

The reason I'm laying this out here is because some people are saying that Jill and Jessa were both asleep and have no memory of what happened to them. But the narratives above clearly show that three out of the four girls were awake and did remember at least some of what happened. That means that when Jill and Jessa went on camera and said they both slept through the whole thing and had no idea about it until they were told, at least one of them was lying. Also, things are being said about Josh's "progression." He was pretty bad from the start--again, three of the four girls were conscious, and he knew it. He was interacting with them at the time.

The more I think about Jessa and Jill's Faux News interview, then angrier I get at how they handled it. They come off like they see themselves "above" actual victims of sexual assault. I feel like there's no hope for them to ever see anything differently. Jinger and Joy probably will before they do. Jinger especially.

And from an earlier discussion on naming Jinger and Joy - Thanks to Jill and Jessa, we know Jinger was the laundry room victim and Joy was the story (okay, Joy was always obvious) so I don't think that type of speculation is out of line. They essentially confirmed it. It's naming the 5th victim that is out of line.

[VelociRapture]

Why are the other girls' names listed above? I thought we were specifically warned at the top of every page against doing so. Just wondering if this has changed?

Hi!

First, if I haven't said it already then welcome to FJ!

I know that others have addressed this already, but since it was my post that sparked the question I thought I should explain my reasoning for naming the two younger sisters.

As others have mentioned, Jill and Jessa pretty much outed them as victims in the Fox interviews without actually stating it explicitly. Simply having them speak combined with the information from the statements (see below) outed the younger two as victims.

Also, I read through the police statements carefully when they were first released - those statements made it crystal clear who those two victims were for the following reasons:

- The fact that the victims and their attacker (Josh) were all listed as living in (I believe it was) Springdale at the time the statements were taken.

- The fact that their witness statements flat out state four of the victims are children of JimBob and Michelle Duggar.

- The fact that one of the non-victim statements was given by a daughter of JimBob and Michelle who was old enough to be pursuing her GED when the statement was taken; the only two who would have been at that point or close to it in their educations would have been Jana and Jill.

- The fact that Joy was, at the time, the youngest daughter who had been born to the family; Hannie was born shortly before the Police statements were taken in 2006. This means the Duggars only had five daughters at the time of the attacks, one of whom (Jana) was not a victim and was old enough to be pursuing a GED.

Unfortunately, the identities of the three younger sibling victims was never really in question - it was only a question of whether it was Jana or Jill who was the fourth victim. The Duggars answered that when Jill gave that interview to Megyn Kelly.

I understand that some people don't like listing the two younger sisters as victims because they themselves have not spoken out regarding the assaults. I respect that and normally I would agree - however, in the case of Jinger and Joy (as well as Jill and Jessa before they gave the Fox interviews), there is too much information already published and out there already. Whether they want people to know or not was pretty much out of their control the second InTouch published the redacted statements.

I wish whoever did the redacting could have done more to conceal their identities - no victim deserves to be outed without their consent - but I honestly don't know if there was anything they could have really done to prevent people from figuring it out. The sheer amount of redacting done when listing the number of people they lived with was a huge giveaway in and of itself.

Now, the fifth victim is another story entirely. Her identity has not been compromised in any way at this time. I feel we should respect her privacy - and the privacy of any other potential victims - by not speculating about who she is. She seems to want to be left alone and I think she deserves that much.

Hopefully this explains it a bit more.

(And just as an aside, I'm glad that these attacks came to light because it helped expose the flaws in the Duggar's belief system to the world - but I find it very sad and disgusting that it came at the expense of the Duggar children who have now been victimized three times: first by their brother, second by their parents and the Elders, and third by the media.)

ETA: If the Admins decide to amend the current rule to ban speculation concerning the two sister victims who have not spoken to the media, I will (of course) respect that decision.

[iweartanktops]

Hi!

First, if I haven't said it already then welcome to FJ!

-Snip-

Hopefully this explains it a bit more.

(And just as an aside, I'm glad that these attacks came to light because it helped expose the flaws in the Duggar's belief system to the world - but I find it very sad and disgusting that it came at the expense of the Duggar children who have now been victimized three times: first by their brother, second by their parents and the Elders, and third by the media.)

Thank you for the welcome! And for the explanation! I completely understand! Also, again, I was not trying to stir up trouble by any means! Of course I'm aware that anyone with some reasoning could come to the conclusion that we've all reached about who's who. I just wasn't clear on what was allowed to be explicitly stated.

Sadly, I agree with you that by exposure the rest of the world has a chance to see this awful environment for what it truly is. I just wish every survivor involved (for me, this includes the M kids - not speculating that he has directly harmed them the same way, but just the fact that their father's name is all over the media, etc.) had more protection as well as actual treatment. I'm also thankful that the 5th survivor has been able to protect their privacy. Hopefully they're also receiving the care they need.

I appreciate everyone's responses! Hopefully I haven't just labeled myself the "idiot newbie!" :/

[iweartanktops]

Interesting that Nancy changed her tune! She went on and on about how "wholesome" the Duggars were and how wrong it was to drag them into it. I cant stand Nancy Grace and her Duggar segments pissed me off more than her usual over hyping and fake drama.

I should clarify that I caught Nancy Grace at the tail end and suddenly it was Dr. Drew. So while she certainly could have "changed her tune," as while she was on I, heard not one positive word about Josh or the Duggar family, I only saw a few minutes of her show.

Out of curiosity, what, exactly did she feel the Duggars were dragged into? She's such a drama queen!

[VelociRapture]

Thank you for the welcome! And for the explanation! I completely understand! Also, again, I was not trying to stir up trouble by any means! Of course I'm aware that anyone with some reasoning could come to the conclusion that we've all reached about who's who. I just wasn't clear on what was allowed to be explicitly stated.

Sadly, I agree with you that by exposure the rest of the world has a chance to see this awful environment for what it truly is. I just wish every survivor involved (for me, this includes the M kids - not speculating that he has directly harmed them the same way, but just the fact that their father's name is all over the media, etc.) had more protection as well as actual treatment. I'm also thankful that the 5th survivor has been able to protect their privacy. Hopefully they're also receiving the care they need.

I appreciate everyone's responses! Hopefully I haven't just labeled myself the "idiot newbie!" :/

:lol:

Nah. You're good. It's always better to ask for clarification if you aren't sure about something.

And I agree with you about the M kids. They may not have been victims of the actual attacks, but they were still victimized by the release of the reports and their lives are going to be very different . And thanks to how big a story this was, its very likely they'll learn what happened and what their father did at some point - which is really sad to me.

[Buzzard]

I should clarify that I caught Nancy Grace at the tail end and suddenly it was Dr. Drew. So while she certainly could have "changed her tune," as while she was on I, heard not one positive word about Josh or the Duggar family, I only saw a few minutes of her show.

Out of curiosity, what, exactly did she feel the Duggars were dragged into? She's such a drama queen!

The girls being "outed" by the evil media... that it was all just a smear campaign on their awesomeness

[Sera's Arrow]

I'd sooner eat glass than watch Nancy Grace or anything pertaining to the Duggars. Thanks to those who do and share. I'd thank you with specially prepared baked goods. The secret ingredient is love and marijuana butter but mostly love!

[batuityma]

I take everything the Duggars say with a grain of salt, including what was in the police report.

However, I also find it believable that Josh may have willingly confessed to his parents. I can believe that a 14/15 year old Josh was having urges that he didn't know how to control. He may have been disturbed and confused about his own impulses and genuinely wanted help so he turned to his parents. This along with the fact that he was taught Jesus will forgive your sins as long as you repent. He may have thought that the urges would go away if he confessed.

As awful as his actions were I still feel the most angry at JB and Michelle for how they handled things.

[Buzzard]

I decided it was time to change up my avatar so I was going through old FJ pictures I have... I found this one and its appropriate for today...

Josh Duggar (quoting Rahm Emanuel) - never let a serious crisis go to waste.

Thats exactly what the Duggars are doing here. 19KAC was getting stale and boring, this whole Joshely thing is just a way for them to try to segue into TNG.

[lascuba]

I believe that Josh confessed to his parents. I don't believe that he confessed every time without Jim Bob and Michelle having heard about it from at least one of the victims. The first time, after he had touched a few girls in their sleep over their clothes and he felt tormented about it, yes, I can see JB/M first finding out about it that way. But I find it impossible to believe that after he escalated his behavior, after he attacked one sister in the laundry room and then fondled a 4-5 year old with other people in the room, the he immediately ran to his parents to confess, like they claimed during the FoxNews interviews. That did not happen.

[iweartanktops]

I'd sooner eat glass than watch Nancy Grace or anything pertaining to the Duggars. Thanks to those who do and share. I'd thank you with specially prepared baked goods. The secret ingredient is love and marijuana butter but mostly love!

I should send you my address! :)

[batuityma]

I decided it was time to change up my avatar so I was going through old FJ pictures I have... I found this one and its appropriate for today...

OK now I keep re-checking this thread to watch the avatar slideshow. :D

[Buzzard]

OK now I keep re-checking this thread to watch the avatar slideshow. :D

I think I'm going to stay with this one for a little while.

[Fascinated]

I think I'm going to stay with this one for a little while.

I'm generally not happy when people change their avatars - it feels like losing a friend. (At least your purple name is instantly recognizable so I will purpose to get over it :( )