Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[JenniferJuniper]

Also, it's really hard for entire depositions to be sealed.  Maybe parts of it about the molestations, since they were minors, but the rest of it, that's an uphill battle, and you know that In Touch and other "news" outlets would challenge any efforts to seal it.   

Depositions aren't automatically public record in PA.

Not saying it couldn't happen if it was used in a trial or pleading (like a motion for summary judgement).  Or illegally leaked somehow. 

All things Josh and Co. have to think about before embarking on a defense.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

It will be fascinating in a dark way to see how this plays out. I really am concerned only about Anna and the Mkids. Cute little buggers with nice normal names. Little sweeties. 

 

 

[Hermen-uetics]

Can you imagine what is happening in the TTH with all this?  Who is watching the howlers???  

[Drala]

Oh, Joshly.  Just when my obsessive interest in your public display of psychopathology starts to wane, you get your perverse ass sued for roughing up a sex worker.  You're the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[EmmieJ]

 

Rod beatings are a sensitive topic for me. My cousin has been part of an extreme fundie cult for 30 some years. Its called the Church of God (Restoration). I was maybe 9 or 10 when she and her husband joined. They ended up having 7 children. This cult believes that it is the parent’s godly duty to beat children, even babies, until they submit (often meaning pass out.) Even as a child myself it was obvious something was very wrong with their “church.”  But it wasn’t until I was an adult that a learned about the horrific abuse that these children endured. The beatings were brutal and would leave bruises covering almost their entire bodies. Except for the face or hands or other areas not covered by clothing (And their style of dress is extreme modest so really not much that isn’t covered.)

The two oldest ones who are now in their mid/late 20’s have left the cult. The rest are still in it. I think the youngest is maybe 17 or 18 now. The older two have told stories that have literally made me sick to my stomach. This cult’s abusive practices are well known and it has under been investigation many times but I don’t think much comes of it.  The abuse continues. It is amazing to me that this stuff is allowed to go on in this country.

This is why I wish the U.S. would make corporal punishment illegal, as other countries have done.  It is absolutely vile that parents are allowed to beat the hell out of their kids in the name of religion.  These religions draw some really sick fucks.  In conjunction with making corporal punishment of minors illegal in all states, I would also like to see a lot more oversight of homeschooling, including at least bi-weekly home visits (to see the classroom, the progress each student is making, and also to make sure the children look as if they are being taken care of, fed, well-treated, etc.).  There should be universal standards, not this hodge podge where some states basically don't even care of a child gets any decent sort of education.  If there were closer monitoring of home-schooling, authorities could also require proof that each child has a Social Security number and an actual birth certificate.  Authorities might have a fighting chance at catching some of the worse abuses.  However, given how much free reign is given to the "right kind" of Christians in the U.S., anyone attempting to enact such laws would have an uphill battle. 

[Hera]

Not so sure about the bolded.   If he doesn't participate in his defense by refusing to respond to interrogatories or attending a deposition, there wouldn't be an actual trial.  A default judgement would be entered against him.  And we already know what her story is.  His story is the interesting one.

I'm not suggesting it's a good option, but something that he has to weigh.  

*And just editing to add that any settlement would likely have to come from Boob, and we don't know how much he'd be willing to cough up for the prodigal son.  Or whether Danica has any interest in settling.  Again, this is a good venue for her.  Dumbass Josh probably couldn't have picked a worse one for himself.

You still have to present a prima facie case in order to get a default confirmed and an actual judgment entered.  Or at least you do in every jurisdiction I have ever practiced in.  You can't just rely on the petition because, as has been noted here, many times claims in the petition are unsubstantiated.  Thus, Danica would have to, at minimum, submit an affidavit and any evidence she has to support her claims before the judge would grant the confirmation of default.  She might even have to testify.  And whatever she said or submitted would be public record.  It is a far better option for Josh to settle and I suspect JB would pay a lot of money to make this go away.  

Depositions aren't automatically public record in PA.

Not saying it couldn't happen if it was used in a trial or pleading (like a motion for summary judgement).  Or illegally leaked somehow. 

All things Josh and Co. have to think about before embarking on a defense.

 

I know that.  But unless Danica's attorneys are idiots, then they'd attach - or threaten to attach - the whole damn thing to a pleading (or at least the good parts) and therefore make it public.  

[JenniferJuniper]

You still have to present a prima facie case in order to get a default confirmed and an actual judgment entered.  Or at least you do in every jurisdiction I have ever practiced in.  You can't just rely on the petition because, as has been noted here, many times claims in the petition are unsubstantiated.  Thus, Danica would have to, at minimum, submit an affidavit and any evidence she has to support her claims before the judge would grant the confirmation of default.  She might even have to testify.  And whatever she said or submitted would be public record.  It is a far better option for Josh to settle and I suspect JB would pay a lot of money to make this go away.  

I know that.  But unless Danica's attorneys are idiots, then they'd attach - or threaten to attach - the whole damn thing to a pleading (or at least the good parts) and therefore make it public.  

Yes, there are plenty of reasons for Josh to settle, but as you know the defendant doesn't get the final say on this.  We don't know what Danica's motivations or expectations are or what Jim Bob would be willing to pay on Josh's behalf.  

Again, Danica's story is already pretty much known.   Josh's story is the one people would be interested in.  And so does he defend and risk the world hearing even more sordid details about his life and behavior?  Does he take a default and have that hanging over his head?   What would she be willing to take and would Boob be willing to pay?  And how long will negotiations likely last?  

I don't have any answers.  Just questions.

[EmmieJ]

Just read the complaint.  I wonder why she didn't file it earlier/right after it happened?  I am guessing because she didn't have any idea who Josh was, and that he might have some financial resources.

If she is not able to work in her chosen field, is that a recent thing?  Or has that been the case since Josh alledgedly assaulted her?  

Danica/Ashley is in a dangerous line of work, but this does not mean she should be assaulted or forced to do things she is not comfortable doing.  I wonder how difficult it will be for her to prevail?  

These are just the questions that ran through my brain. 

I work for a law firm that does civil litigation.  I'm responding solely on the question of why a person might not file a lawsuit immediately after suffering an injury caused by another.  In California, a person has two years from the date of injury in which to bring a lawsuit.  

Example:  1.  A person rear-ends another on the freeway.  2.  Injured person seeks treatment, and as times  passes, maybe realizes their injuries are taking a while to improve, or are more serious than originally thought.  3.  Injured person then might go in search of an attorney to discuss their accident and seek legal representation.  4.  Attorney takes the case, gets copies of the person's medical records, evaluates what they believe the value of their client's case may be worth, and begins negotiations with the other driver's insurance company.  (If this scenario was playing out in Danica's case, I would imagine that Danica's attorney might attempt to contact Josh directly to discuss his client's claims, most likely in letter form.)  5.  Time passes.  Either settlement talks fail entirely, or the two sides are so far apart, settlement isn't possible.  6. Attorney then files a lawsuit so that official discovery can commence, such as depositions.

So Danica may have spoken with an attorney right away, or she may have been contacted by one or more attorneys after her story was first published.  There is no harm to waiting before filing a lawsuit, as long as you do so before the statute runs.

[nastyhobbitses]

Yes, there are plenty of reasons for Josh to settle, but as you know the defendant doesn't get the final say on this.  We don't know what Danica's motivations or expectations are or what Jim Bob would be willing to pay on Josh's behalf.  

Again, Danica's story is already pretty much known.   Josh's story is the one people would be interested in.  And so does he defend and risk the world hearing even more sordid details about his life and behavior?  Does he take a default and have that hanging over his head?   What would she be willing to take and would Boob be willing to pay?  And how long will negotiations likely last?  

I don't have any answers.  Just questions.

Josh is in a real damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Take it to court? Even more dirt on you and your family will be revealed. Try to get Danica to agree to a settlement? Everyone will assume you're hiding more dirt on you and your family because you're essentially paying hush money. Either way, Josh is a pervert hiding behind his daddy's pleated khakis and the molestation and Ashley Madison reveals were just the tip of the iceberg, I'd hazard.

[Buzzard]

There will never be depositions in this case.  The suit will be settled and the hush money will be paid, the only question is whether other women will file as well.

As for the molestation, its out.  Its not coming in because its irrelevant.  It doesnt prove a tendency towards the violence that she's alleging and bad sexual proclivities dont go towards the weight of the allegations she's making.  The fact that the records were destroyed isnt the issue. 

[EmmieJ]

Not so sure about the bolded.   If he doesn't participate in his defense by refusing to respond to interrogatories or attending a deposition, there wouldn't be an actual trial.  A default judgement would be entered against him.  And we already know what her story is.  His story is the interesting one.

I'm not suggesting it's a good option, but something that he has to weigh.  

*And just editing to add that any settlement would likely have to come from Boob, and we don't know how much he'd be willing to cough up for the prodigal son.  Or whether Danica has any interest in settling.  Again, this is a good venue for her.  Dumbass Josh probably couldn't have picked a worse one for himself.

I am not sure whether there could still be an actual trial or not.  In this example, let's say Josh refused to answer interrogatories or give a deposition.  Then Danica's attorney would file motions to compel him to respond to discovery, and the Court would order him to do.  His own attorney would also be insisting he respond to discovery, because it's entirely possible that the Court (the judge) would eventually order that the attorney and Josh pay sanctions for failing to participate in discovery as ordered.  Danica's attorney could also serve a request for admissions, asking Josh to admit or deny certain allegations.  If he refused to answer those requests at all, it's possible Danica's attorney could ask the judge to deem them "admitted," and get that before a jury. 

Also, the fact that Josh sold his home for $1 or whatever, is clearly shenanigans.  Any court would recognize that for what it now appears to be:  hiding assets.  As a rule, courts do not look favorably upon defendants who try to hide assets in the face of pending lawsuits.

[justoneoftwo]

I am not sure whether there could still be an actual trial or not.  In this example, let's say Josh refused to answer interrogatories or give a deposition.  Then Danica's attorney would file motions to compel him to respond to discovery, and the Court would order him to do.  His own attorney would also be insisting he respond to discovery, because it's entirely possible that the Court (the judge) would eventually order that the attorney and Josh pay sanctions for failing to participate in discovery as ordered.  Danica's attorney could also serve a request for admissions, asking Josh to admit or deny certain allegations.  If he refused to answer those requests at all, it's possible Danica's attorney could ask the judge to deem them "admitted," and get that before a jury. 

Also, the fact that Josh sold his home for $1 or whatever, is clearly shenanigans.  Any court would recognize that for what it now appears to be:  hiding assets.  As a rule, courts do not look favorably upon defendants who try to hide assets in the face of pending lawsuits.

You don't get a default if someone refuses to answer discovery, only if they don't answer the complaint.  As said above, admissions are use to prove you confessed (technically if you don't answer you agree) and sanctions can be filed.  Then you have to go to court and present the admissions as evidence, this would still be a trial.  There is no way he will just refuse to participate, that achieves no goal at all.

[theinvisiblegirl]

Can you imagine what is happening in the TTH with all this?  Who is watching the howlers???  

Grandma Duggar, of course! Between loads of laundry, she's running around chasing the Howlers.

[EmmieJ]

You don't get a default if someone refuses to answer discovery, only if they don't answer the complaint.  As said above, admissions are use to prove you confessed (technically if you don't answer you agree) and sanctions can be filed.  Then you have to go to court and present the admissions as evidence, this would still be a trial.  There is no way he will just refuse to participate, that achieves no goal at all.

Agreed.

[HarryPotterFan]

I've been in a few motels & never once found porn. Italy was another animal altogether, tho.

I remember channel surfing with my brothers in a hotel in France when I was 11. It took me a few years to figure out the name for what specific ...um, act I saw. 

[djmd]

Johs is back in the Duggar compound because Danica is suing him, per InTouch.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-sued-by-pornstar-danica-77789

I'm curious what the connection is between the lawsuit and Smuggs being back at the compound? Is it perhaps because authorities were finally able to "serve" him papers or whathavenot?

[theinvisiblegirl]

Philly juries are known to be quite generous to plaintiffs, regardless of their chosen professions.

But this suit isn't against the Duggars, it's against Josh and they can easily keep him appearing totally indigent now and for the foreseeable future.  I think this is part of the reason why he went to "rehab".   Josh might be "totally disabled" (wink, wink,) as result of his mental health condition. 

But if that's the cause, they would have to have him evaluated by a court appointed psychologist - aka, a real psychologist. Remember the dinner theater episode where Josh acted? He was shitty actor; I don't think he could fool a real professional into thinking he's insane and can't participate in any proceedings regarding the case.

[pamplemousse]

I've been in a few motels & never once found porn. Italy was another animal altogether, tho.

About 10 years ago, I was staying in a small, family-owned motel in South Carolina that, to put it bluntly, was a dump. (But, hey, it had no bugs; and it looked like the owners tried to keep it as clean as they could.)  The TV there had normal cable/satellite channels like one might get in one's home...and, on channel 72, on a several-hour or so loop, explicit, uncensored porn.  

[sophie10130]

So before we were sort of hem-hawing about the fact that maybe Danica was making up the fact that her and Josh slept together.

Is that skepticism off the table now because of this? Could she say they had a sexual encounter that included all of these things and really be lying and has never met Josh in her life?

If so, could Josh come out and say "I did not have sexual relations with this woman" and sue her for slander or whatever (i'm a physicist not a lawyer!)

Basically what I'm asking is: Is this enough proof to show that Josh actually cheated on Anna with another woman? And are we done speculating that this encounter actually happened? Or could this still be made up?

[JenniferJuniper]

But if that's the cause, they would have to have him evaluated by a court appointed psychologist - aka, a real psychologist. Remember the dinner theater episode where Josh acted? He was shitty actor; I don't think he could fool a real professional into thinking he's insane and can't participate in any proceedings regarding the case.

Oh, I don't mean he'll claim he can't participate because he's disabled, only that he has no work prospects because of serious depression, etc.   And a plaintiff can't get blood from a stone.  

From a negotiating standpoint, I can see such an argument being used to posture for a lower settlement.

[justoneoftwo]

So before we were sort of hem-hawing about the fact that maybe Danica was making up the fact that her and Josh slept together.

Is that skepticism off the table now because of this? Could she say they had a sexual encounter that included all of these things and really be lying and has never met Josh in her life?

If so, could Josh come out and say "I did not have sexual relations with this woman" and sue her for slander or whatever (i'm a physicist not a lawyer!)

Basically what I'm asking is: Is this enough proof to show that Josh actually cheated on Anna with another woman? And are we done speculating that this encounter actually happened? Or could this still be made up?

He admitted he cheated on Anna with another women, the question was always was it with her.  As for me, no it doesn't end all skepticism, it makes is unlikely he was never in the same place as her (that would just be a bad lie to make up) and I think it also makes it very likely he slept with her, but its possible he didn't.  Could he sue her for liable?  Sure.  Do I believe everything just because a Plaintiff filed a case?  No.  

Personally I never thought it was all fake, but I do question the complete accuracy of her account, and continue to do so.  If the case goes forward we will get more information and in theory know more about what may or may not have happened.  

[JenniferJuniper]

You don't get a default if someone refuses to answer discovery, only if they don't answer the complaint.  As said above, admissions are use to prove you confessed (technically if you don't answer you agree) and sanctions can be filed.  Then you have to go to court and present the admissions as evidence, this would still be a trial.  There is no way he will just refuse to participate, that achieves no goal at all.

Ultimately though it would all end in a default judgement, whether it's out of the gate for not answering the complaint or whether it comes after sanctions for failure to answer discovery or appear for a deposition in PA.

Refusing to participate is generally never a good idea, that's true.  But participating has it's pitfalls for the entire Duggar brand, not just Josh.

My own guess is that his attorney answers and denies everything and then they try very hard to settle with her.  But if she refuses offers or if she is looking for something beyond money, all bets are off as far as what the Duggars do Josh does next.

[silverspoons]

Josh claiming he is disabled would open up more problems. Josh has a work history and a GED. He would have to prove his disability would make him unable to buy a car at an auction, be any type of salesman, do office work, do customer service work or sales (including over the phone). While it doesn't seem like Josh has been stellar at any of his jobs, he still does have the ability to earn a wage. I can't imagine him saying he can no longer work in public because of his porn addiction or sex addiction. If he did how would he be able to be a disabled stay at home to 4 small kids.

 

I think Jim Bob was worried about lawsuits and thinks he is being sneaky hiding assets. I don't think he understands a good lawyer will be able to prove Josh is hiding assets. Jim Bob thinks he knows everything and has friends in the legal system. Kind of doubt Jim bob knows judges and special friends to do favors in PA. Hasn't Santorum even broken ties with the Duggars?

[DuggarWatch]

Josh admitted to the molestations publicly. They may not have actual records, but they could easily use evidence taken from InTouch or press releases and use that.

I would guess that they would use that sort of stuff to help build the case that he has a history of abusing women. Maybe someone with legal expertise can offer a better explanation.

In Touch magazine published the police records.  They are still online. They got them from the police department through the Freedom of Information Act.  Besides, they don't need those.  They get to call all the Duggars to the stand if they want to, and they will get a subpoena to testify. 

[accountingstar]

It's also made People.com and the Daily Mail.

http://www.people.com/article/porn-star-sues-josh-duggar-assault-battery-alleged-sexual-encounter

I hate to break it to Ashley (real name), but I don't think Josh Duggar has $500,000.

I had no clue that she was married and a mother of two.

From the Daily Mail:

• Dillon alleges that Duggar 'manhandled' her and was violent when they had sex on two occasions 
• Dillon's attorney, Marc Frumer, says that if Duggar takes the stand he will likely be questioned about his entire sexual history and past misconduct 
• Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar could also possibly be called to testify for hiding details of Duggar's 'prior bad acts' according to Frumer 
• The suit claims that Dillon 'is currently being treated for severe anxiety similar to post-traumatic stress disorder by a psychiatrist'