Joshley Madison Pt 8: Are We Still Talking About This?

[FlamingFundie]

Perhaps unloading their Ark home in case they were sued was quite the foreshadowing?

[Whoosh]

Wow.  I really don't even know what to think or say about this.  Wow.  I guess I really felt compelled to post something because I want to tell "someone" that I really didn't expect this given the way things played out a few months ago (or whenever the Danica story first broke).  I guess I hope (obviously) Danica is OK.  I also hope that the outcome of all this is just and fair.  But most of all I hope that anyone who has HUGE lessons to learn from all this learns them.  In my mind, that starts with "religious leaders" and zealots in general, JB, DQ and any other parents inflicting this brand of crazy on their children.  Of course, Josh is a fully grown adult and if he is indeed guilty I hope he is handed the just consequences and stops the cycle of crazy and harm in it's tracks.

 

ETA - I should have said "this brand of crazy or any other brand of crazy that clearly causes harm"

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Oh my!  I figured it had to be more of a case of JB playing CYA....

[Whoosh]

Josh admitted to the molestations publicly. They may not have actual records, but they could easily use evidence taken from InTouch or press releases and use that.

I would guess that they would use that sort of stuff to help build the case that he has a history of abusing women. Maybe someone with legal expertise can offer a better explanation.

In a criminal case, it would be a whole different story.  In a civil case, I do believe VR is correct in that sealed court documents, etc. might be hard to get in, but testimony about the events will likely be deemed admissible.  I am not at all speaking as any kind of professional or expert on this as my experience is in criminal.  Just sharing my thoughts based on the bit I do know.  Would love to hear from someone more familiar with rules of evidence in civil procedure.

[VelociRapture]

Just read the complaint.  I wonder why she didn't file it earlier/right after it happened?  I am guessing because she didn't have any idea who Josh was, and that he might have some financial resources.

There are many reasons why someone may not file immediately. Fear of not being believed, the fear that they'll be told "they were asking for it," the fact that she may not have had any idea who he was or how to contact him, the fear that the police wouldn't take it seriously because of her profession, embarrassment and shame over the entire situation happening, fear of losing other business opportunities because of the lawsuit, etc.

Many reasons besides financial ones.

If she is not able to work in her chosen field, is that a recent thing?  Or has that been the case since Josh alledgedly assaulted her?  

Danica/Ashley is in a dangerous line of work, but this does not mean she should be assaulted or forced to do things she is not comfortable doing.  I wonder how difficult it will be for her to prevail?  

These are just the questions that ran through my brain. 

It's possible that her admission over the encounters caused her to lose opportunities - I'm more inclined to believe that she is suing because she has been unable to work since the assaults occurred though (due to physical and/or mental trauma). At the very least, I think the second option would help her case much more.

And you are absolutely correct - her profession doesn't mean she was looking for this to happen or she wanted it to happen. Hopefully a judge/jury will keep that firmly in mind if the lawsuit goes to trial.

In a criminal case, it would be a whole different story.  In a civil case, I do believe VR is correct in that sealed court documents, etc. might be hard to get in, but testimony about the events will likely be deemed admissible.  I am not at all speaking as any kind of professional or expert on this as my experience is in criminal.  Just sharing my thoughts based on the bit I do know.  Would love to hear from someone more familiar with rules of evidence in civil procedure.

Exactly. He isn't being charged criminally - at least at the moment. From what I read, I am pretty sure this would be a civil suit and those tend to have more wiggle room when it comes to the evidence presented.

Again though, I don't have a background in Law. Anyone that is a Lawyer - specifically with experience in Civil cases - is more than welcome to correct any misinformation!

[JenniferJuniper]

Just read the complaint.  I wonder why she didn't file it earlier/right after it happened?  I am guessing because she didn't have any idea who Josh was, and that he might have some financial resources.

If she is not able to work in her chosen field, is that a recent thing?  Or has that been the case since Josh alledgedly assaulted her?  

Danica/Ashley is in a dangerous line of work, but this does not mean she should be assaulted or forced to do things she is not comfortable doing.  I wonder how difficult it will be for her to prevail?  

These are just the questions that ran through my brain. 

People claim all sorts of stuff in civil suits which may or may not turn out to be true.

The timing I find more interesting is Josh's.  He saw this coming back in August when they ditched the house.   I'm sure he has no assets, at least not any she can easily get at in the event of a judgement.  I do wonder if there are others out there that he was concerned about as well.  Because he moved awfully damn fast after the breach.  

I don't think that's the full complaint, but if it is, he's not likely to get a defense from his liability insurance carrier as all allegations are intentional in nature.   It does look truncated though. 

[Whoosh]

People claim all sorts of stuff in civil suits which may or may not turn out to be true.

<snip>

Hugely important point.  My prior posting history on this topic should indicate that I am not a fan of discounting a person's claims based on stereotypes or assumptions at all.  However, people in general lie in lawsuits all the time for all kinds of reasons.  I really, really hope the truth prevails here - whatever it is.

[Bad Wolf]

I hope, hope, hope that Danica has some proof, that she took photographs. I would hate it to come down to "he said, she said." Many cases are settled out of court, so we may never know

[singsingsing]

Right, I think we need to keep in mind that,

-Danica could still be lying. About everything. I have no idea what kind of evidence she'd have to produce in a civil suit to back up her case, but so far we still have no idea whether she's telling the truth or not (and she does seem to be contradicting some of what she said previously).

-There may be some truth to her story, but we don't know if, or how much, she's exaggerating. Her lawyer would certainly encourage her to make her injuries, both physical and emotional, sound as bad as possible in order to get more money. I know that sounds cynical, but it's true. If you're looking for $500,000 in damages, saying, "He was really rough with me, I told him to stop and he apologized and it was fine after that" isn't going to cut it. 

[Hera]

Oh, wow.  Josh's deposition would be a doozy!  I bet they settle before that happens.  None of those people want whatever Josh would have to say under oath about everything from his upbringing to the molestations scandal to Joshley Madison and any and everything in between to become part of the public record.  

[Bad Wolf]

OK. Figured out the hidden thing. You CAN teach an old person new tricks. 

[JenniferJuniper]

Oh, wow.  Josh's deposition would be a doozy!  I bet they settle before that happens.  None of those people want whatever Josh would have to say under oath about everything from his upbringing to the molestations scandal to Joshley Madison and any and everything in between to become part of the public record.  

If he's dumped his assets, he can always skip his deposition and take a default judgement.   Be less embarrassing for him.  But it's also very possible that any deposition he gives would never become public record.

[notfundy]

I just want to say that I've already gained perspective & insight - far more than I would from any other source/article  - from the posters in this thread.

Agreed that he'll settle long before this has to get aired out in any public venue. 

[Imagine20]

You can allege anything you want in a civil suit and you don't need any proof when you file.  I think it'll get settled out of court and she'll never say a word about it again.

[justoneoftwo]

If he's dumped his assets, he can always skip his deposition and take a default judgement.   Be less embarrassing for him.  But it's also very possible that any deposition he gives would never become public record.

Depending on the state this basically only works if your declaring bankruptcy or will not have more assets in the future.  The Duggars will settle quick to avoid depositions, at least I expect so.  They could take it to trial and argue she consented, and also her damages are trumped up, they may even win on that.  But doing so would allow a lot of things to come out they don't want to, particularly since all his other victims are now over 18.  

[JenniferJuniper]

I find Danica's timing precious, although not in a blessing kind of way.

I mean, what with "the girls'" specials coming up and the fact that this is bound to go mainstream in about  10, 9, 8, 7....

[purple_summer]

Maybe she was already planning to sue when the articles came out earlier this summer but is just now getting everything finalized?

[JenniferJuniper]

Depending on the state this basically only works if your declaring bankruptcy or will not have more assets in the future.  The Duggars will settle quick to avoid depositions, at least I expect so.  They could take it to trial and argue she consented, and also her damages are trumped up, they may even win on that.  But doing so would allow a lot of things to come out they don't want to, particularly since all his other victims are now over 18.  

Philly juries are known to be quite generous to plaintiffs, regardless of their chosen professions.

But this suit isn't against the Duggars, it's against Josh and they can easily keep him appearing totally indigent now and for the foreseeable future.  I think this is part of the reason why he went to "rehab".   Josh might be "totally disabled" (wink, wink,) as result of his mental health condition. 

[Hera]

If he's dumped his assets, he can always skip his deposition and take a default judgement.   Be less embarrassing for him.  But it's also very possible that any deposition he gives would never become public record.

Yeah, but if they record that judgment and keep on recording it so it doesn't expire, then it will follow him around forever.  He'd never be able to ever sell a house or any other property, at minimum, which would be a problem at some point.   Not to mention that she'd have a claim to anything he inherits, etc.  Plus, to get the default judgment, Danica will be able to/have to present her case and her evidence to the court, on the record, uncontested, for all the public to see.  Better to settle it and get a confidentiality clause punishing any disclosure.  

[justoneoftwo]

Philly juries are known to be quite generous to plaintiffs, regardless of their chosen professions.

But this suit isn't against the Duggars, it's against Josh and they can easily keep him appearing totally indigent now and for the foreseeable future.  I think this is part of the reason why he went to "rehab".   Josh might be "totally disabled" (wink, wink,) as result of his mental health condition. 

Oh yes, but if I were JB I would pay her off to make it go away.  No he wouldn't be on the hook for the amount she was owed if she won, but he is hurt by it being dragged into the public.  I've has cases where Plaintiffs were trying this (try to get bad publicity for a family with money by suing a kid who may not have any, sometimes Daddy pays to avoid it).  

[2manyKidzzz]

I didn't see where it was stated that Joshley was back at TTH? What did I miss. 

And how long before this comes to "court" or wherever it will go. 

This is real dirt. I don't know how Danica can say she can't work. All very interesting and just in time for Christmas. 

[Hera]

Also, it's really hard for entire depositions to be sealed.  Maybe parts of it about the molestations, since they were minors, but the rest of it, that's an uphill battle, and you know that In Touch and other "news" outlets would challenge any efforts to seal it.   

[justoneoftwo]

I didn't see where it was stated that Joshley was back at TTH? What did I miss. 

And how long before this comes to "court" or wherever it will go. 

This is real dirt. I don't know how Danica can say she can't work. All very interesting and just in time for Christmas. 

I would guess if it went to trial it would be in 2 years or so.  If I were JB as I said I would try to get this settled ASAP and have it voluntarily dismissed, however I would bet that won't happen.  Generally before you file you try to get the defendant to pay, so if settlement talks have been going on (which would also explain why it took a while, although this was really fast imo) they have likely failed or stalled.

[JenniferJuniper]

Yeah, but if they record that judgment and keep on recording it so it doesn't expire, then it will follow him around forever.  He'd never be able to ever sell a house or any other property, at minimum, which would be a problem at some point.   Not to mention that she'd have a claim to anything he inherits, etc.  Plus, to get the default judgment, Danica will be able to/have to present her case and her evidence to the court, on the record, uncontested, for all the public to see.  Better to settle it and get a confidentiality clause punishing any disclosure.  

Not so sure about the bolded.   If he doesn't participate in his defense by refusing to respond to interrogatories or attending a deposition, there wouldn't be an actual trial.  A default judgement would be entered against him.  And we already know what her story is.  His story is the interesting one.

I'm not suggesting it's a good option, but something that he has to weigh.  

*And just editing to add that any settlement would likely have to come from Boob, and we don't know how much he'd be willing to cough up for the prodigal son.  Or whether Danica has any interest in settling.  Again, this is a good venue for her.  Dumbass Josh probably couldn't have picked a worse one for himself.

[2manyKidzzz]

Poor Anna and the Mkids. For them this just adds another layer of misery.

BecauseJesus