Joshley Madison Part 6 - Sin, Confess, Repeat

[Artemesia]

Did they still have all that lying around the house? Was that Josh's excuse? Walmart ad tempted him too much?

I guess if Anna does take him back then this monitoring will be another job for her. Because raising 4 small children isn't enough of a job. And if J sneaks a peek at porn then she'll be blamed for not preventing it. J has no accountability whatsoever.

J should have been taught that he is capable of controlling his impulses instead of "Nike-ing" his way through life or having every knee and shoulder covered so that he wouldn't be tempted. The message is that men can't control themselves so if any sexual dalliance occurs it is the evil woman's fault.

[gemma]

So apparently Jboob just uploaded a note to fathers....

duggarfamily.com/note-to-fathers

My favorite part is:

" Start protecting your family by removing books, magazines, television, or internet that have worldly or sensual content. Replace them with good things like wholesome music, biographies of great Christians, good old-fashioned family fun and games. Love God with your whole heart and look for opportunities to serve others as a family and tell others about our Saviour."

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

I read the entire note and I seem to recognize it, almost verbatim, from a while ago. Regardless, he continues with the exact same approach of over-sheltering the children.

[Rachel333]

Maybe this was a way for Jim Bob to say this is what they did, they protected their kids from worldly content, so it's not their fault Josh turned out that way?

[LovelyLuna]

So apparently Jboob just uploaded a note to fathers....

duggarfamily.com/note-to-fathers

My favorite part is:

" Start protecting your family by removing books, magazines, television, or internet that have worldly or sensual content. Replace them with good things like wholesome music, biographies of great Christians, good old-fashioned family fun and games. Love God with your whole heart and look for opportunities to serve others as a family and tell others about our Saviour."

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

well my kids are fucked then.

[Justme]

Do we know what kind of work Joshie and the other inmates are doing? Last time, it was carpentry and we know how well that turned out. :roll: :whistle:

[justbecause]

Okay so, as far as the whole "all sin is equal" discussion.... Wouldn't the 10 commandments kind of debunk this theory? Now I haven't read the bible all the way through, and it's been ages since I've read it at all, but I always thought that breaking any of those would be committing ultimate sins. Those are the rules that absolutely should not be broken.

As far as the 7 deadly sins go... Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that they have any actual mention in the bible. I thought those were just based on human nature as they are all completely unavoidable, but manageable, yet they can completely spiral your life out of control if you let them.

Josh has certainly broken a commandment here, so even though God may forgive him, I don't see how what he did would be equal to, say, ankle showing, as per scripture.

As for the sins in and of themselves, I'm curious to know how they discuss them, if they do at all. Obviously Josh knows that he has sinned, but does he understand WHY what he did was so wrong? Or do they just say, God says you've sinned so you're going away? I don't think this "rehab" will help any, but I really don't see Josh getting better at all if he doesn't even understand the reason why what he did was so wrong outside of the fact that the bible says you shouldn't do that.

mind you, I'm just here for the discussion. I never really watched the show, but I've known of them since their specials, and I find myself extremely glued to this scandal because it has taken me back to my childhood I guess. I know not all Christians believe like the Dugger's, and I know that not all Christians are bad, but the hypocrisy and the holier than thou attitude they live by is what the general public is seeing, this is the kind of thing I saw growing up and exactly the kind of theology that drew me away from it. I guess I am just trying to understand. I think they (or any one really) can preach until they are blue in the face, but you're actions reflect what is truly in your heart. It's hard to stand by someone who makes everything look so good on paper, but destroys everything they touch.

I will try to explain this concept from a biblical perpsective briefly, but let's remember the Duggars are in a cult so their twisted scripture understanding does not follow the Bible anyways.

So, the Bible starts out with Adam & Eve and before sin, Adam & Eve communed with God in the garden (before sin). After sin entered the picture, Adam & Eve (human beings) no longer communed with God because God is Holy and sin is not, which separated God and man/woman.

When Moses got the 10 Commandments, they were to show the Isrealite's how to commune with God again, if they did not break any of the commandments, but we know that no one could keep all of the Commandments, so the Levitical priests would make blood sacrifices (animals usually) as a temporary atonement for sin. It had to be done yearly after that as it was temporary. Because the Old Covenant between God and Israel was keeping ALL the commandments, Israel was punished several times by God (captivity, 40 years in the wilderness, ect) when they did not obey. The 10 Commandments were originally only for the Israelite's.

When God chose to send His Son, Jesus Christ to earth, this was the permanent solution to the sin problem. The only way to permanently atone for sins, was for Jesus to live a life of no sin, choosing to atone for all sin by sacrificing Himself for all others (humanity). Which He did and it was accepted by God as the solution to the sin problem because the Father raised Jesus in the Ressurection which was the proof of the Father accepting Jesus sacrifice and restoring Jesus back to the right hand of the Father after His Ressurection.

With Jesus being a permanent atonement for sin, those who are in Jesus Christ, their sins are forgiven. But Jesus told us that He cared about the heart of a man and that Jesus, through the Holy Spirit would search the heart of man to reveal not just sin, but the heart behind the sin.

Yes, Jesus does forgive sins, but the premise behind Jesus forgiving our sins is not that we lie to ourselves or another about our motivations, but that since the Holy Spirit knows the heart behind sin (perfectly) that the sin issue is between the believer and God.

Christians are not to look so much at sin (which is more between inidividuals and God) but to look at the 'fruit of the Spirit' in people.

Those 'fruit of the Spirit'

Galatians 5:22-23

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

So, Jesus tells us to look at what is produced by a person in goodness, rather than to look at sin. That is how we are to biblically handle sin. To let God handle the sin (Judgement Day) and to let Christians not judge each other through what sins they do, but to look at the 'fruit of the Spriit' being evident in their lives.

So, looking at Joshie, and the Duggars in general, they have problems with their hearts in that they choose to 'be sweet' which promotes a false sense of self and justice where they constantly desire to show fruit of the Spriit, but it is not true fruit from their hearts as Jesus indicated was where it should flow from. By forcefully demanding that they in effect try to only display positive traits (ie.. fruit of the Spirit) they have convinced themselves that this is stemming from their hearts and minds when it is in fact in their case 'learned and expected behavior' and has very little to do anymore with the heart.

So in their lives they have twisted the meanings, which is what a cult does.

I hope this make a little sense.

[Grimalkin]

Because that worked out so well for him

Maybe a Sears catalogue was left out in the open and poor Josh caught a glimpse of the swimsuit section. :angelic-halofell:

[calimojo]

Ok, so I am posting on the run, but has this been posted?

The end message of the blog is the same old leg humper bullshit, but I thought the account of Josh and Jimbob in church a week before the newest scandal was interesting

godsgirljulia.wordpress.com/i-am-josh-duggar/

[blessalessi]

Ok, so I am posting on the run, but has this been posted?

The end message of the blog is the same old leg humper bullshit, but I thought the account of Josh and Jimbob in church a week before the newest scandal was interesting

godsgirljulia.wordpress.com/i-am-josh-duggar/

"I am Josh Duggar"

She seems to have conflated "Je suis Charlie" with the idea that "all sin is lawlessness". Fundie arsehole. :lol:

The stuff about Josh in Church the week before the scandal broke is very interesting indeed, though.

Quoting below in case she is freaked by the website hits and decides to go private.

I am Josh Duggar

IMG_0735-0

I went to church with the Duggars the Sunday before this latest scandal broke loose. At church, the pastor invited the whole Duggar family to come up, sing a song, and share their testimony.

I sat there and listened to Jim Bob as he praised his son, Josh. He went on about how he was and is a changed man. He went on about how Josh is a great godly man, who no longer struggles with this sin. And Josh stood there, nodding his head in agreement as he held one of his children.

When I first heard that Josh had an Ashley Maddison account, I didn’t believe it. But then he admitted it, causing me to be filled with disgust.

I defended Josh on May 22. I wrote a blog praising him. I was filled with disgust, because what kind of person stands there and listens to their father praise them, when they know what’s truly going on. What kind of person lets their family, friends, and fans defend them, when they know the truth.

But then it hit me. I am that person. I am Josh Duggar.

Now sure, I don’t struggle with the same types of sins as Josh, but I still struggle with sinning, and I always will. Josh’s sins are not worse than mine. They are equal in the eyes of God.

I am Josh Duggar because I too let people praise me and defend me while I stand there acting like everything is fine. I put up this front and act like I don’t struggle with sin that much- especially the super bad sins that no one ever wants to talk about, because if I admit that I do struggle with them, I must not be that great of a Christian.

We believe that lie- that lie that the devil so loves to tell us! The lie that we have to keep our deepest, darkest sins to ourselves. Because if we ever confess, people will hate us.

But that’s not true. I think we often forget that we are ALL sinners. We forget that we ALL fall short of the glory of God. We ALL need a savior, that’s why Jesus came.

We’re not perfect, so I think it’s time that we stop acting like we are. I think we all need to be more vulnerable. I think we all need to be more open about those “super bad sins†that we struggle with.

Now this doesn’t mean that we confess them to the whole world. I’m not asking anyone to do that. What I’m asking is that we, as a church, start talking about the taboo sins. If we never talk about them, how are they supposed to be fixed?

What I’m asking takes humility. It requires us coming to the end of ourselves. It requires the desire for change.

But when we humble ourselves, when we lessen ourselves, Christ increases. Christ begins to shine through the darkness. He takes something so dark and broken, and turns it into something beautiful, something that can be used for His glory.

Today, let Christ turn your “deepest, darkest sins†into something beautiful- something to be used for His glory.

[twinmama]

Ok, so I am posting on the run, but has this been posted?

The end message of the blog is the same old leg humper bullshit, but I thought the account of Josh and Jimbob in church a week before the newest scandal was interesting

godsgirljulia.wordpress.com/i-am-josh-duggar/

It must be so depressing to believe that kind of thing. This girl sounds wracked with guilt for being a normal person who isn't perfect. I'm totally cool with the idea that I AM a better person than Josh. Most of us are. Me swearing nonstop or whatever other sins I commit are NOT as bad as cheating on my spouse and molesting children. Gah.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Carrying over this discussion from part 4:

Can we vote to put Josh on a space shuttle? That way he doesn't have to go to Chile, Canada, or Siberia, and the U.S. doesn't have to keep him either. I'm sure if we start a GoFundMe page and send NASA some money, they can scrape enough resources together to send one more craft into space just long enough to jettison Josh somewhere into the Milky Way Galaxy.

Back to reading the rest of part 4. I may get caught up someday!

ETA: We'll buy a second seat for Bieber on the shuttle so no one is stuck with him, either.

ETA 2: I'm now the Biggest Hypocrite Ever! Wait a minute...

[artdecades]

Jessa and her teenage groom offer their brilliant advice: "trust god"

thanks, thats real helpful Benessa

http://www.people.com/article/jessa-dug ... sh-scandal

Can these people say anything else about this? I realize that this is a complex issue that is hard to discuss, but that would make me want to avoid stupid comments all the more. Everything out of their mouth is God God God. Rehab is nothing but God. Avoid the situation through God. Feel better through God. No wonder Josh ended up so messed up. How can you live so narrowly.

[mebeforee]

This skewed idea of sin is really strange to me. And it clearly goes against all natural instincts. They have to remind themselves 'all sin is equal' in order to fight the disgust and anger they would otherwise feel toward the prominent members of their circles and even their religious leaders. It's just another way for abusive men to continue their damaging actions with little to no consequence. They've convinced their followers that them molesting children or sexually harassing women or cheating or beating their children or whatever is truly no worse than the occasional wayward thought or selfish desire.

On top of that, they've made "bitterness" (aka lack of forgiveness for wrongdoing - and there usually HAS been a serious wrong done against a person who is accused of this) one of the biggest flaws a person can have, so anyone who can't get past the fact that their brother or husband or pastor has done something truly terrible to another person is rejected as lacking in character. It's a way that they can deny forgiveness for 'bitterness' (because it's not a sin, they just view it as a major character flaw) but still demand acceptance of their own misdeeds.

[Grimalkin]

Ok, so I am posting on the run, but has this been posted?

The end message of the blog is the same old leg humper bullshit, but I thought the account of Josh and Jimbob in church a week before the newest scandal was interesting

godsgirljulia.wordpress.com/i-am-josh-duggar/

Sounds like somebody trying WAAAY too hard to sound deep and thoughtful. I don't think she believes that at all. she is a wannabe fundie hipster.

[older than allosaurs]

So the "all sins are equal" idea is to remind us that it's not our fellow beings we should feel bad about wronging, but God. Have I got that right? Whether I molest a child or whether I lust over Idris Elba, who is not my spouse, either way I'm disrespecting God, and that's all that matters?

[heagleca]

Sounds like somebody trying WAAAY too hard to sound deep and thoughtful. I don't think she believes that at all. she is a wannabe fundie hipster.

I was about to post something similar. I didn't take this girl too seriously. I rolled my eyes through the whole thing.

[PassTheCoffee]

I will try to explain this concept from a biblical perpsective briefly, but let's remember the Duggars are in a cult so their twisted scripture understanding does not follow the Bible anyways.

So, the Bible starts out with Adam & Eve and before sin, Adam & Eve communed with God in the garden (before sin). After sin entered the picture, Adam & Eve (human beings) no longer communed with God because God is Holy and sin is not, which separated God and man/woman.

When Moses got the 10 Commandments, they were to show the Isrealite's how to commune with God again, if they did not break any of the commandments, but we know that no one could keep all of the Commandments, so the Levitical priests would make blood sacrifices (animals usually) as a temporary atonement for sin. It had to be done yearly after that as it was temporary. Because the Old Covenant between God and Israel was keeping ALL the commandments, Israel was punished several times by God (captivity, 40 years in the wilderness, ect) when they did not obey. The 10 Commandments were originally only for the Israelite's.

When God chose to send His Son, Jesus Christ to earth, this was the permanent solution to the sin problem. The only way to permanently atone for sins, was for Jesus to live a life of no sin, choosing to atone for all sin by sacrificing Himself for all others (humanity). Which He did and it was accepted by God as the solution to the sin problem because the Father raised Jesus in the Ressurection which was the proof of the Father accepting Jesus sacrifice and restoring Jesus back to the right hand of the Father after His Ressurection.

With Jesus being a permanent atonement for sin, those who are in Jesus Christ, their sins are forgiven. But Jesus told us that He cared about the heart of a man and that Jesus, through the Holy Spirit would search the heart of man to reveal not just sin, but the heart behind the sin.

Yes, Jesus does forgive sins, but the premise behind Jesus forgiving our sins is not that we lie to ourselves or another about our motivations, but that since the Holy Spirit knows the heart behind sin (perfectly) that the sin issue is between the believer and God.

Christians are not to look so much at sin (which is more between inidividuals and God) but to look at the 'fruit of the Spirit' in people.

Those 'fruit of the Spirit'

Galatians 5:22-23

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

So, Jesus tells us to look at what is produced by a person in goodness, rather than to look at sin. That is how we are to biblically handle sin. To let God handle the sin (Judgement Day) and to let Christians not judge each other through what sins they do, but to look at the 'fruit of the Spriit' being evident in their lives.

So, looking at Joshie, and the Duggars in general, they have problems with their hearts in that they choose to 'be sweet' which promotes a false sense of self and justice where they constantly desire to show fruit of the Spriit, but it is not true fruit from their hearts as Jesus indicated was where it should flow from. By forcefully demanding that they in effect try to only display positive traits (ie.. fruit of the Spirit) they have convinced themselves that this is stemming from their hearts and minds when it is in fact in their case 'learned and expected behavior' and has very little to do anymore with the heart.

So in their lives they have twisted the meanings, which is what a cult does.

I hope this make a little sense.

Yes, it makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

I understand that this is a cult mindset that we are dealing with. I very much agree with the sins being a part of your personal relationship with God. I don't feel it's anyones business to butt themselves into someone else's personal life and choices, so long as no one is in any risk and laws aren't being broken, who cares? But I also think if someone is going to stand on a pedestal and point fingers, they need to make sure their house is clean, and if it's not, they deserve the inevitable backlash.

And with your last paragraph, I completely agree. It's just become a mundane routine for them. It's actually quite a scary thing when you say it like that (you worded it perfectly!).

[blessalessi]

I was about to post something similar. I didn't take this girl too seriously. I rolled my eyes through the whole thing.

Yeah, on reflection, I wonder if she constructed the whole blog post as a "Godly" sounding means by which to share the hot gossip about how the Biggest Hypocrite Ever, stood up and committed an act of gross hypocrisy in church just days before the scandal broke.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

As was mentioned above, Burris claimed to he a Serbian concentration camp guard but this was thoroughly debunked.

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=26392

Dammit, I wanted to go to sleep an hour ago and then I fell down THAT rabbit hole! That's what happens when I don't read here for months, I miss the good stuff.

[calimojo]

Yeah, on reflection, I wonder if she constructed the whole blog post as a "Godly" sounding means by which to share the hot gossip about how the Biggest Hypocrite Ever, stood up and committed an act of gross hypocrisy in church just days before the scandal broke.

Well, the only part of her post that I found interesting was the part about the Duggars in Church. First of all, I thought they didn't really go to a real church. So, if this post is telling the truth, then that must mean that she is fairly close to the Duggars and attends their Home church. I get the impression that the home church is a small group of people in general.

So to me, if this post is legit, this is info coming from someone in the inner circle.

Also telling to me, again if true, is that the church story is confirmation that Jimbob had no idea of the Ashley Madison/porn star scandal. I think he really believed the worst was behind them.

Now we all assume there are more skeletons to be found, but it is possible that from JB and M's perspectives, there are no more. I think most of the other info out there is probably stuff that Michelle and Jimbob would justify, and they would not have insight as to why others would consider it a bad thing. Just like they eagerly told the world that Michelle hands off the kids to a sibling after weaning or how she admitted that for the past several years, Jessa has been in charge of the Homeschooling. Normal people hear that and instantly realize how terrible that is. But I think Michelle genuinely doesn't have insight that those admissions reveal her poor parenting decisions.

Posting pictures of the little kids playing with guns laying on the ground next to them, again, normal people, including gun enthusiasts, see that and realize that is a bad idea, But the Duggars just don't seem to realize they are revealing more poor parenting.

[TheJewAmongUs]

So apparently Jboob just uploaded a note to fathers....

duggarfamily.com/note-to-fathers

My favorite part is:

" Start protecting your family by removing books, magazines, television, or internet that have worldly or sensual content. Replace them with good things like wholesome music, biographies of great Christians, good old-fashioned family fun and games. Love God with your whole heart and look for opportunities to serve others as a family and tell others about our Saviour."

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

It's not brand new. Here it is waybacked from March 2015.

web.archive.org/web/20150320133530/http://www.duggarfamily.com/note-to-fathers

Notice Michael is wearing a Razorbacks shirt. I think it's funny that they support Razorback football and we've seen pics of the kids at games. Mainly because it's a public school where people from all religions and backgrounds read books and magazines, by design. Not to mention unmarried adult "children" have access to books, internet, etc. Oh, and because there are cheerleaders at football games.

[MakeItSo]

It's not brand new. Here it is waybacked from March 2015.

web.archive.org/web/20150320133530/http://www.duggarfamily.com/note-to-fathers

Notice Michael is wearing a Razorbacks shirt. I think it's funny that they support Razorback football and we've seen pics of the kids at games. Mainly because it's a public school where people from all religions and backgrounds read books and magazines, by design. Not to mention unmarried adult "children" have access to books, internet, etc. Oh, and because there are cheerleaders at football games.

In my head I just see all the girls scream NIKE during half time and quickly cover all the boys' eyes...except for JBoob who just sits there like :D

[Deist woman]

((I have cut out the previous posts that this was posted in reference to, in order to keep things short. My question deals only with this post, so I am not attempting to take anything out of context))

Well, the only part of her post that I found interesting was the part about the Duggars in Church. First of all, I thought they didn't really go to a real church. So, if this post is telling the truth, then that must mean that she is fairly close to the Duggars and attends their Home church. I get the impression that the home church is a small group of people in general.

So to me, if this post is legit, this is info coming from someone in the inner circle.

Also telling to me, again if true, is that the church story is confirmation that Jimbob had no idea of the Ashley Madison/porn star scandal. I think he really believed the worst was behind them.

Now we all assume there are more skeletons to be found, but it is possible that from JB and M's perspectives, there are no more. I think most of the other info out there is probably stuff that Michelle and Jimbob would justify, and they would not have insight as to why others would consider it a bad thing. Just like they eagerly told the world that Michelle hands off the kids to a sibling after weaning or how she admitted that for the past several years, Jessa has been in charge of the Homeschooling. Normal people hear that and instantly realize how terrible that is. But I think Michelle genuinely doesn't have insight that those admissions reveal her poor parenting decisions.

Posting pictures of the little kids playing with guns laying on the ground next to them, again, normal people, including gun enthusiasts, see that and realize that is a bad idea, But the Duggars just don't seem to realize they are revealing more poor parenting.

In regard to the bolded, where can I get more info about that? Was it real guns? I'd be interested in seeing the original discussion.

[bingbangboom]

Well, the only part of her post that I found interesting was the part about the Duggars in Church. First of all, I thought they didn't really go to a real church. So, if this post is telling the truth, then that must mean that she is fairly close to the Duggars and attends their Home church. I get the impression that the home church is a small group of people in general.

So to me, if this post is legit, this is info coming from someone in the inner circle.

Also telling to me, again if true, is that the church story is confirmation that Jimbob had no idea of the Ashley Madison/porn star scandal. I think he really believed the worst was behind them.

Now we all assume there are more skeletons to be found, but it is possible that from JB and M's perspectives, there are no more. I think most of the other info out there is probably stuff that Michelle and Jimbob would justify, and they would not have insight as to why others would consider it a bad thing. Just like they eagerly told the world that Michelle hands off the kids to a sibling after weaning or how she admitted that for the past several years, Jessa has been in charge of the Homeschooling. Normal people hear that and instantly realize how terrible that is. But I think Michelle genuinely doesn't have insight that those admissions reveal her poor parenting decisions.

Posting pictures of the little kids playing with guns laying on the ground next to them, again, normal people, including gun enthusiasts, see that and realize that is a bad idea, But the Duggars just don't seem to realize they are revealing more poor parenting.

That might be a safety issue for heathen children who've not been lucky enough to be raised in a good Christian home!

These are Duggars though!!!11!1!! And they are soooo well behaved! Just look at Josh, he followed all the rulezzz and paid Ashley Madison on time1!11! Except for that sex worker he didn't pay...but- mistakes happen, he'zz godly!

[Bethella]

((I have cut out the previous posts that this was posted in reference to, in order to keep things short. My question deals only with this post, so I am not attempting to take anything out of context))

In regard to the bolded, where can I get more info about that? Was it real guns? I'd be interested in seeing the original discussion.

Here's one of the more recent discussions: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=25198&hilit=duggars+guns&start=60 concerning these two pictures.