Joshley Madison Part 6 - Sin, Confess, Repeat

[TL;DR]

I think it is safe to say that if Josh Duggar really gets help from his "treatment" it really will be miraculous.

Straight from baby Jesus himself.

[lizzybee]

The Duggars were at the Bates church. That was the day after Michael and Brandon's wedding. There are pictures somewhere of the entire Duggar family including Josh standing up at the front of the church service with Josh holding Marcus. This person must be a friend or family member of the Bates or Keilan family.

There's a photo of them on Jill Rodriguez's blog singing at the Bates's church on that Sunday, Josh included.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I'm trying to remember what I've read in the past. He thinks it was wrong to kiss his wife before marriage....I don't know if he thinks he's confessing to some kind of sin there. He considers their past birth control use a sin. He's acknowledged some wrongdoing in his books, chalked up to bad judgment. That's about it. Not that I expect him to fully divulge all he's done in his life, but they do an awful lot of preaching about others. I still don't think they realize that this is what has gotten them in some much trouble with the public. They keep saying they are persecuted, but they don't seem to realize that the reason Josh's admissions have been met with such a strong reaction partly has to do with this squeaky clean image they've always put forth.

The only thing I've ever read about Jim Bob where he's supposedly done anything wrong in the past was about his anger problems. He claimed that he needed the kids to tell him when he was about to lose his temper, and they would pat him on the arm and tell him to calm down. This supposedly helps him to keep his temper in check. But beyond that, it's always been all about Michelle mowing the lawn in a bikini/her roller skating and dating/ or the kids getting upset with one another (this in regard to "sinning).

JB never talks about how when he met Michelle the first time, he spent the next year and praying for God "to give her to him." I've always wondered if there was any stalking behavior on his part involved before they paired off and married.

[justbecause]

I agree. I feel badly for the kids and kidults who are living at the TTH. They are probably being lectured and made to spend hours in the prayer closet. The only plus is that maybe Boob and DQ will end up allocating more time to spend with them one-on-one, if only to ensure that they are not having "impure" thoughts or lusting after the mail carrier. :penguin-no:

It will be interesting to see if any of their shinny toys get taken away and if courtship will become even more strict. Maybe no more side hugs until engagement or a total hands off courtship! It's too bad that they don't realize that being so sex obsessed and ATI crazed, that they are pushing their children to want to experience worldly things but the two of them are straight coo coo!

It is indeed so very sad. I don't think though that they will be so quick to marry off the kidults because JB & J'chelle need them.

They lost two, Jessa & Jill to marriage one for the most part after the other. And there is a whole bunch of boys next to come in to adulthood. I think that they need the help too much to let Jana & Jinger get out right now. That's just my take though.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Frankly, I'd love to hear about some of Jim Bob's sins. Nobody's as squeaky clean as he's making himself out to be with his distraction tactic of focusing on everyone else's sins.

I mean, he outright admits that he committed forgery when they had the used car dealership (in the 20 Kids book).

But he prayed and everything is FINE now!!! :angry-banghead:

[Idolatry]

Shut up, Benessa! Believe me, you're not interesting enough to have your own TV show.

Bin is allowed internet access to read the news, eh? I bet Jessa looks over his shoulder the whole time.

Sit down, Blessa.

Also, WTF is she wearing??? Flip flops and the ugliest black cotton maxi dress she could find. :shock: No jewelry or anything. Good thing god won't ever make her get a real job, right?

[Idolatry]

I think it is safe to say that if Josh Duggar really gets help from his "treatment" it really will be miraculous.

I think his "treatment" in the media, also known as public shaming, will be quite effective. If he's just an ass, and not dealing with actual addictions and stuff, that should be enough to keep him in line. Or at least enough not to get caught again. It's fair to say strip clubs would be very risky for him now.

[Rosalie]

Regarding the "all sins are equal" theory: not all fundies agree with that. PP, who is about as fundie as you can get, is strongly against it for example. He once preached a whole sermon about it. And even he realizes that stealing a pen at the office is not the same as murdering someone.

He also has some scriptures to back his claims up.

(if you can stand his screeching: youtube.com/watch?v=r6iyytbrMKc)

Growing up in a country with mainstream protestant church as national religion, yet the society is widely secular, I have always had problems with the "all sins are equal" as well as with the "Original sin". BTW "Original sin" led to a long and intensive discussion in philosophy class at university.

These sentences are from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and IMO Thea sum up the result of a religious vs logic discussion regarding "All sins are equal":

"1858. Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger."

(Please disregard any typos. I am writing on a tablet W/O english spellcheck)

[TenderloinTrash]

I mean, he outright admits that he committed forgery when they had the used car dealership (in the 20 Kids book).

But he prayed and everything is FINE now!!! :angry-banghead:

Woah I read that piece of trash and I totally missed that :pink-shock:

[princessmahina]

Sit down, Blessa.

Also, WTF is she wearing??? Flip flops and the ugliest black cotton maxi dress she could find. :shock: No jewelry or anything. Good thing god won't ever make her get a real job, right?

Aww, I thought the dress was pretty :cry:

I'd wear it with my Harry Potter 9 3/4 necklace :)

[Themiscyran]

I think his "treatment" in the media, also known as public shaming, will be quite effective. If he's just an ass, and not dealing with actual addictions and stuff, that should be enough to keep him in line. Or at least enough not to get caught again. It's fair to say strip clubs would be very risky for him now.

He sexually abused family members and never received any proper treatment for that. In addition, according to Danica Dillon's account, he is manipulative and abusive and has zero respect for consent. I have no idea if he has actual addictions (if so those need treatment), but he clearly needs help with his issues around power and sexuality. Public shaming can make abusers more circumspect for a while, but it does nothing to stop their tendencies; in fact, it can make them more abusive. For the sake of the people around him, he needs real counseling, not this fake fundie Biblebrain-washing crap.

[justbecause]

The only thing I've ever read about Jim Bob where he's supposedly done anything wrong in the past was about his anger problems. He claimed that he needed the kids to tell him when he was about to lose his temper, and they would pat him on the arm and tell him to calm down. This supposedly helps him to keep his temper in check. But beyond that, it's always been all about Michelle mowing the lawn in a bikini/her roller skating and dating/ or the kids getting upset with one another (this in regard to "sinning).

JB never talks about how when he met Michelle the first time, he spent the next year and praying for God "to give her to him." I've always wondered if there was any stalking behavior on his part involved before they paired off and married.

I think I read that JB & J'chelle had The Sex before they were married. I believe that they admitted that.

[Idolatry]

Aww, I thought the dress was pretty :cry:

I'd wear it with my Harry Potter 9 3/4 necklace :)

You'd wear 80% of a nun's habit with flip flops to a public event where people will be taking photos?

That dress is fine for the grocery store. But that dress is way too casual and unflattering when you're clinging to your 15th minute and giving desperate media interviews. They both look like messy slobs.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

The bible gets read during Mass. If you go to Mass once per week for the whole year (like a good Catholic should :-P), then apparently you cover the entire bible.

The RCC does not encourage "creative independent interpretation" (this is a phrase I just made up) of the bible like many Protestant denominations do. For example, they like to view the book of Revelation as an account of the fall of Rome--not as a prophesy about the end of the world that is going to happen any day now.

Instead, they prefer to leave biblical interpretation to committees made up of people with advanced degrees in biblical studies and theology. That is where the fundie idea that Catholics are not allowed to read the bible for themselves comes from. A rumor that is NOT TRUE btw. The Church often gives a bible to the newly confirmed members as a gift---I don't think they would do that if they didn't allow people to read it.

They just want people to read it in the context that a lot of work has been put into interpretation, already. But I guess Cletus with his grade 4 education is qualified to interpret the bible, too.

Not at all true about the entire bible being covered in one year. That wouldn't be possible.

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

Are you/have you been Catholic? A typical Sunday mass is 45-50 minutes. The readings (3 on Sunday's post Vatican II) are a small portion of the mass. There isn't enough time to cover the entire bible even if the entire mass was nothing but readings.

It works out to 39 hours of mass per year. Very few people could read the bible cover to cover in 39 hours and no one could if reading aloud in the slower cadence of mass readings. Even if you threw in the typical 20 minutes weekday mass you couldn't cover the whole thing time-wise.

Yes, for Catholics the official interpretation is done by the church and you're also correct that it's a myth were not allowed to read the bible ourselves. But I don't know where your assertion that often the Church gives a bible to the newly confirmed. It's not uncommon for a bible and other religious gifts to be given by family/friends but I've never known anyone to get anything besides the certificate from church on Confirmation.

Just anecdata but I asked several current and former Catholics irl outside of my family If they'd heard of this (I was curious) and no one had. If this is done often enough to be a thing my diocese hasn't heard about it yet.

Now when my mom left the Church and went funny-lite and I would have to go to her Evangelical Free church with her I couldn't turn around without someone handing me a bible. When she was dying and visited by members of that church my heathen siblings and I were given enough bibles to have opened up a mid-sized hotel.

Missed this when it was posted and probably should have let it go but letting things stated as fact stand when they are patently untrue just spreads erroneous information and doesn't advance the conversation.

[Rosalie]

In my head I just see all the girls scream NIKE during half time and quickly cover all the boys' eyes...except for JBoob who just sits there like :D

Probably OT, but what does this NIKE thing mean? I've seen the reference in other threads @free jinger, and my Nordic background cannot get the grip of it...

[Idolatry]

Probably OT, but what does this NIKE thing mean? I've seen the reference in other threads @free jinger, and my Nordic background cannot get the grip of it...

If only there were some way to search anonymous snark on a TV show you obviously don't watch... If only...

[paganhomeschooler]

The bible gets read during Mass. If you go to Mass once per week for the whole year (like a good Catholic should :-P), then apparently you cover the entire bible.

The RCC does not encourage "creative independent interpretation" (this is a phrase I just made up) of the bible like many Protestant denominations do. For example, they like to view the book of Revelation as an account of the fall of Rome--not as a prophesy about the end of the world that is going to happen any day now.

Instead, they prefer to leave biblical interpretation to committees made up of people with advanced degrees in biblical studies and theology. That is where the fundie idea that Catholics are not allowed to read the bible for themselves comes from. A rumor that is NOT TRUE btw. The Church often gives a bible to the newly confirmed members as a gift---I don't think they would do that if they didn't allow people to read it.

They just want people to read it in the context that a lot of work has been put into interpretation, already. But I guess Cletus with his grade 4 education is qualified to interpret the bible, too.

They don't read the whole Bible every year at mass. They read the same chapters at the same time every year, but it's not always in order. If you go once a week, that's 52 masses. They'd have to read several chapters a reading to get through the whole thing. I don't think I've ever heard all of the begetting stuff being read in church. Hell, I think our 6th grade teacher even let us skip those when we read the whole Bible that year. They go through a lot of the NT, but not all, and definitely not all of the OT. Each of the gospels alone give different tellings of the same stories. They're not going to repeat the Xmas story 4 times. I went to Catholic school k-8, so I was at church a lot.

[rosaline]

Are we interpreting the lack of a denial about Danica Dillon by the Duggars as tacit admission that it's true? Something about her story still seems off to me--like it's just a grab for attention--but it does seem weird that they haven't responded to it at all.

[linnea27]

Probably OT, but what does this NIKE thing mean? I've seen the reference in other threads @free jinger, and my Nordic background cannot get the grip of it...

The Duggars picked a code word to alert the boys in the family to look down at the ground when there was an immodestly dressed woman around. They picked the word "Nike", possibly because they were looking at their shoes.

[TenderloinTrash]

You'd wear 80% of a nun's habit with flip flops to a public event where people will be taking photos?

That dress is fine for the grocery store. But that dress is way too casual and unflattering when you're clinging to your 15th minute and giving desperate media interviews. They both look like messy slobs.

Hey now don't go bashing a nun's habit like that. A habit's definitely better constructed than that dress :)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Are we interpreting the lack of a denial about Danica Dillon by the Duggars as tacit admission that it's true? Something about her story still seems off to me--like it's just a grab for attention--but it does seem weird that they haven't responded to it at all.

Personally I dont read anything into this. This would fall under the category of not dignifying it with a response if it's bs. And likely no one but Josh has any idea of what is and isnt true, and I doubt they believe much of anything he says at this point.

The last thing they would want to do is throw down defending this and it turns out the lying smuggar fooled them again.

Besides saying he didn't do this horrible thing in public just opens the door for questions about specifics of the other horrible things he did do.

It seems like they aren't being advised by a PR person or JB wouldn't have dared post something in the realm of parenting advice, so I think they are being accidentally smart by keeping their mouth shut about this.

[paganhomeschooler]

Not at all true about the entire bible being covered in one year. That wouldn't be possible.

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

Are you/have you been Catholic? A typical Sunday mass is 45-50 minutes. The readings (3 on Sunday's post Vatican II) are a small portion of the mass. There isn't enough time to cover the entire bible even if the entire mass was nothing but readings.

It works out to 39 hours of mass per year. Very few people could read the bible cover to cover in 39 hours and no one could if reading aloud in the slower cadence of mass readings. Even if you threw in the typical 20 minutes weekday mass you couldn't cover the whole thing time-wise.

Yes, for Catholics the official interpretation is done by the church and you're also correct that it's a myth were not allowed to read the bible ourselves. But I don't know where your assertion that often the Church gives a bible to the newly confirmed. It's not uncommon for a bible and other religious gifts to be given by family/friends but I've never known anyone to get anything besides the certificate from church on Confirmation.

Just anecdata but I asked several current and former Catholics irl outside of my family If they'd heard of this (I was curious) and no one had. If this is done often enough to be a thing my diocese hasn't heard about it yet.

Now when my mom left the Church and went funny-lite and I would have to go to her Evangelical Free church with her I couldn't turn around without someone handing me a bible. When she was dying and visited by members of that church my heathen siblings and I were given enough bibles to have opened up a mid-sized hotel.

Missed this when it was posted and probably should have let it go but letting things stated as fact stand when they are patently untrue just spreads erroneous information and doesn't advance the conversation.

Cross posted with you! Lol. When we read the Bible in 6th grade, it took us MONTHS to get through, and we were reading at least an hour a day. That was our most boring year of religion class. It was just miserable listening to 11 yo kids trying to say all those names and places. We read the Odyssey in LA that year, too. It was The Year of Reading Aloud.

[EmmieJ]

I have a confession to make. I'm Josh. Just kidding. I've never understood the "all sins are equal" mentality. I get it in theory. We're all sinners, nobody's perfect, but God forgives us anyway, Jesus died for everyone, blah blah blah. So, if that's the case, why are fundies so focused on certain sins? Like being LGBT, having an abortion, or being an atheist? (Not sins, but they think they are) But covering up sexual abuse, lying, having affairs, and beating your children are all totally acceptable because Jesus forgives sins?!?!?!??! Does.not.compute.

I hear Church Lady (Dana Carvey) saying "Wellllll, isn't that convenient?"

[rosaline]

Personally I dont read anything into this. This would fall under the category of not dignifying it with a response if it's bs. And likely no one but Josh has any idea of what is and isnt true, and I doubt they believe much of anything he says at this point.

The last thing they would want to do is throw down defending this and it turns out the lying smuggar fooled them again.

Besides saying he didn't do this horrible thing in public just opens the door for questions about specifics of the other horrible things he did do.

It seems like they aren't being advised by a PR person or JB wouldn't have dared post something in the realm of parenting advice, so I think they are being accidentally smart by keeping their mouth shut about this.

Ahh, that makes more sense. Thanks!

[gemma]

I think I read that JB & J'chelle had The Sex before they were married. I believe that they admitted that.

Where did they admit that? I remember them saying they had saved themselves.