Let's Go Down the FJ Fundie Rabbit Hole!

[hoipolloi]

Yes, the Reins sisters are long on pontificating and short on truth, kinda like their "sister" SAHDs, Elizabeth & Anna Sophia Botkin.

Maybe the fundie motto should be tweaked a bit along these lines:

Do as I say and not as I do,

Purge the content that's awkward for you!

[JohnRobertMoore]

I'm still confused. The Bringing Home of Rebecca seems to have been very definitely publicised as being part of the Restoring Manhood to America programme.... not an equal opps retirement gig.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111121439 ... erica.html

Are you sure you aren't misremembering because you might now feel awkward and embarassed to have been part of such a misogynistic event? :P

Oh yeah, you're totally right in terms of how it was approached and promoted in our circles. I'm talking about what motivated the idea of having a party to celebrate somebody leaving their job. It didn't start with us and it didn't start as a way to restore manhood to murrica.

Remember that part of the any religious authoritarian construct is that you climb the ladder by being boastful as hell and displaying solidarity with the convictions of the community, even when you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I was 16 when I wrote that. Boastful as I was, I was also confused for the reasons I described. Although that post is pretty damn lolworthy.... I did have private conversations where I wondered if Sam would have done it if he hadn't been pressured into it by the church community, and that bothered me. It also bothered me that it was being done purely by forcing them to downsize their lives instead of by generating new income.

But in the end, the things I said were true in terms of Sam's motivations. He wanted to prove his manhood. It was critical to his identity as a man in those circles to retire his wife. But the notion of having a big event to 'retire' somebody was motivated by MLM circles that were decidedly less fundamentalist, and were doing so as business goals, not personal aspirations to holiness.

My point was that the reason there was a weird party, and the reason Sam was doing it, were mismatched. So it came off even stranger than it already was.

[JohnRobertMoore]

We seem to be burrowing a new rabbit-hole in real time, in this very thread!

John, I see from your posting history that you came here to defend a perceived misconception about your partner, and I understand that. You seem to have undergone a LOT of changes from the way that your other identity posted. But the stuff you are saying here about the origins of Bringing Home Rebecca, and about the nature of her husband's crimes just don't sit well with reality.

I suspect that you are still right in the middle of the turmoil of what has happened, and I don't want to be hard on you for the sake of it. But you still seem to be in the thick of patriarchal thinking, even if you have changed in some other doctrinal matters.

I legitimately didn't follow what happened with them beyond a certain point, and only heard through the grapevine. I had a lot of other pretty intense shit clouding up my life and there are literally thousands of people in my sphere, so once they were no longer part of our church community, which they had sort of been in and out of for years, I didn't follow them. I just know the idea that he was gun-running to other countries wasn't true, because that had been discussed by Dad and a friend at some point. I knew illegal shipments were involved, I knew it revolved around international shipping and knives were involved. End of my interest.

As for the origins of the retirement party post, I'm not quite sure what parts of my post doesn't sit well with reality... I'm pretty sure I was there. When your church body is only 80 people, it gets super political. People do things for the wrong reasons, people are still happy about it temporarily, and when there is almost nothing going on in your life, you blog the shit out of the most insignificant things.

[formergothardite]

I legitimately didn't follow what happened with them beyond a certain point, and only heard through the grapevine. I had a lot of other pretty intense shit clouding up my life and there are literally thousands of people in my sphere, so once they were no longer part of our church community, which they had sort of been in and out of for years, I didn't follow them. I just know the idea that he was gun-running to other countries wasn't true, because that had been discussed by Dad and a friend at some point. I knew illegal shipments were involved, I knew it revolved around international shipping and knives were involved. End of my interest.

As for the origins of the retirement party post, I'm not quite sure what parts of my post doesn't sit well with reality... I'm pretty sure I was there. When your church body is only 80 people, it gets super political. People do things for the wrong reasons, people are still happy about it temporarily, and when there is almost nothing going on in your life, you blog the shit out of the most insignificant things.

I wish Free Jinger had saved the whole thing when he explained it because it was waaaayyy more than just sending knives. He was sending all sorts of gun parts to possible terrorists. And then he downplayed it to him being the victim. Does his church and friends buy that shit? Seriously? He lied on federal forms when shipping gun parts around the world and he was doing shady stuff with this guy having things sent to him and he lying about what those items were when shipping them out of the country. I am blown away that anyone would act like he wasn't a criminal who was totally in the wrong. He really came off as a major asshole who wanted to blame everyone for getting caught. I am interested if anyone actually believed the story he was telling.

[JohnRobertMoore]

I wish Free Jinger had saved the whole thing when he explained it because it was waaaayyy more than just sending knives. He was sending all sorts of gun parts to possible terrorists. And then he downplayed it to him being the victim. Does his church and friends buy that shit? Seriously? He lied on federal forms when shipping gun parts around the world and he was doing shady stuff with this guy having things sent to him and he lying about what those items were when shipping them out of the country. I am blown away that anyone would act like he wasn't a criminal who was totally in the wrong. He really came off as a major asshole who wanted to blame everyone for getting caught. I am interested if anyone actually believed the story he was telling.

From what I heard, people learned that he knew for a fact he was in the wrong and stopped supporting him, but continued to support his wife, which is pretty reasonable. I never heard anything about terrorists or gun parts. I don't think you can comprehend how many fucks were not given by me at that point in my life. He may have been shipping parts to terrorists, I dunno. I had photos of my giving a blowjob to a dildo mailed to all of my employers and every significant ministry leader I'd ever met. By a moderator here at FJ, outing me as a source in a very significant privacy breach. Secrets and sex are far worse than gun parts where I come from. ;-)

EDIT: Also, don't forget how much loathing of federal government exists, and especially how much the 2nd Amendment is used to justify anything firearms related. Mention it, and automatically your sins are forgiven. There is no such amendment for dildo usage.

[Palimpsest]

I can easily believe that sex and secrets are more important than illegal shipping of weapons where you come from, JohnRobertMoore. And we do know about how people use the 2nd amendment to flout what laws there are.

How many photographs are there floating around of you fellating dildos? Who do you think mailed the pictures to "all of my employers and every significant ministry leader I'd ever met"?

You were not very discrete when you spilled the dirt here under another name, so it is very possible that your presence here was discovered by one of your former friends. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

I'm glad you are no longer within the thrall of Reform/Fundamentalism and are exploring your sexuality. I realize it takes time to reassess your positions on various aspects of your upbringing and the behavior of your former friends.

On the other hand, I wasn't impressed by your gossip here in the past, although I missed it in real time. I'm very unimpressed by your whining now.

[JohnRobertMoore]

I one hundred percent own my actions and the implications of them. You're quite right to be unimpressed. I'm not whining, I'm explaining the scale of importance of news in my life. I don't remember a lot of goings on at that point in time.

While it could have been one of my friends and undoubtedly had the involvement of one of my friends, some of whom were aware of many details of my life. That particular image set was emailed to somebody, who then passed them on under the username of one of only a few people who knew my identity. I've painstakingly ruled out a number of people, leaving only a couple. One of those is who the email said it was from, a former admin here who had confirmation of my involvement.

Ultimately though, what I suffered pales in comparison to other people who suffered the abuses of the system, which makes the news of one man's illegal arms dealing seem even more insignificant. I'm just trying to say, what I was sharing is the gossip that was passed around, I didn't follow the actual events in any kind of detail, and wasn't trying to expound on my beliefs as to what happened.

But hey, thanks for the warm welcome. ;-)

[formergothardite]

You were an asshole last time you were here. :lol: But so was I so. :shrug:

I do understand that it wasn't important to you at the time, I was just curious if people actually believed this tale of him being a victim when it was pretty clear he knew he was committing crimes. He bragged about how his wife could get federal assistance but they refused it and he was expecting people to support her while he was in jail. Do you know if that actually happened or if she was eventually forced to get a job/accept government assistance? He just all, in all came off as an awful person. He kind of reminded me of the guy who shot his wife while playing a game with real guns and then whined about how awful it was he had to go to prison. Neither of them wanted to accept any responsibility for their actions.

[Palimpsest]

No need to be sarcastic, JRM. I'm wary of anyone who comes to FJ claiming to know inside dirt. Some of them have deliberately mislead us with red herrings in the past. A few of our Fundie and exFundie posters will confirm that I have directly queried their motivations - when I saw them decloak in real time. I missed your first visit or I would have questioned you then. Your posts seemed more gossipy than informative in that thread when I read it after the fact.

You are making a fairly serious accusation - albeit about a former Admin who was ousted with prejudice over 2 years ago. However, I don't understand your trail of evidence. Not that I need to.

First, we have a lot of lurkers and probably a few undercover members from Fundamentalist/Reform circles any of whom could have appropriated her user name. Second, are you saying that you emailed your fellating a dildo photos to her as proof of your identity? That would be funny!

Far be it for me to defend Alecto, who I think is a total jerk, but I can't see any real proof nor motive for her to out you to your employers or ministers. Seriously, I'd look closer to home for your own sake.

Yes, I'm sure you had many things on your mind as you worked your way out of the Fundie mind-set and may not be an accurate witness in some areas.

I do congratulate you on your escape and wish you well.

[thoughtful]

I never heard anything about terrorists or gun parts. I don't think you can comprehend how many fucks were not given by me at that point in my life. He may have been shipping parts to terrorists, I dunno. I had photos of my giving a blowjob to a dildo mailed to all of my employers and every significant ministry leader I'd ever met. By a moderator here at FJ, outing me as a source in a very significant privacy breach.

I can accept the idea that knowing all the details of his crimes was not a high priority for you.

But, didn't you say in another post that you knew the pictures were not sent by a stranger at FJ, but by someone you knew IRL? Now you're saying that it came from a mod?

:shock:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26442&start=40#p978564

But my film was pulled from the film festival in '13 because photos of me giving a blowjob to a dildo (basically the treadmill of oral sex) were mailed to the judges, and somebody associated me with that account.

There's a ton of information I can't really go into but it might not be a problem in another six months or so. In the end, those photos spilled to the rest of the judges and I was asked to leave and not come back. My siblings stayed but my parents and I left. They were sent by somebody claiming to be a moderator here at FJ, but I'm confident it was one of the members using that account which shall not be named, as they're the only people close enough to me to have access to those photos

[formergothardite]

Yeah, it has quickly gone from "someone claimed to be a moderator, but I know it wasn't" to "they were sent by a moderator in a horrible breech of privacy." :shifty-kitty:

John, I am not sure if you realized how many people figured out your real identity very fast after you started posting here. It is much easier to believe that they were sent by someone you pissed off by coming here to gossip about them than it is to believe they were sent by a moderator.

[Curious]

I one hundred percent own my actions and the implications of them. You're quite right to be unimpressed. I'm not whining, I'm explaining the scale of importance of news in my life. I don't remember a lot of goings on at that point in time.

While it could have been one of my friends and undoubtedly had the involvement of one of my friends, some of whom were aware of many details of my life. That particular image set was emailed to somebody, who then passed them on under the username of one of only a few people who knew my identity. I've painstakingly ruled out a number of people, leaving only a couple. One of those is who the email said it was from, a former admin here who had confirmation of my involvement.

Ultimately though, what I suffered pales in comparison to other people who suffered the abuses of the system, which makes the news of one man's illegal arms dealing seem even more insignificant. I'm just trying to say, what I was sharing is the gossip that was passed around, I didn't follow the actual events in any kind of detail, and wasn't trying to expound on my beliefs as to what happened.

But hey, thanks for the warm welcome. ;-)

!

{TEXT1}:

I feel like I need to address this a little bit. First this allegedly happened soon after I took over ownership and did not involve any of our current helpmeets. You can find the thread that this incident generated here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15453 I have no idea what actually happened, but as I said in that thread, ANYONE can open an email account with someone's name on it and it would be monumentally stupid to use your "real" name (your known pseudonym) to essentially commit a crime. You might as well just trot yourself to the police dept after your action. This was done at a period of extreme upheaval on the forum and Alecto was not exactly a popular person at that time. I also want to reiterate that no one has to worry about their passwords, as explained in the linked thread above. I'm sorry that this incident happened to you, John. No one should have to suffer through what I'm sure you did, given the community beliefs surrounding you at the time. I certainly don't condone it. I just want to be clear it was not anyone that is currently involved in the administration of FJ.

[formergothardite]

I could see it being done by some of the ex-members who also posted the personal info of Free Jinger members, but how would they get the pictures? Someone he knew had to have been involved with this.

[Curious]

I could see it being done by some of the ex-members who also posted the personal info of Free Jinger members, but how would they get the pictures? Someone he knew had to have been involved with this.

Given the person that intentionally outed me is the one that started that thread, I would say he may have placed some trust in the wrong people here, but that's just me.

We all live and learn. I'm truly glad that he was able to get out of the cult and hope he is happier now. I'm sorry it had to happen the way it apparently did.

[treemom]

JRM,

I am sorry someone mailed images of you to others. However, I don't believe it was Alecto. It was not me, as I would never, ever do something like that and anything I do publicly I do with my actual name attached. While I suppose one of the previous mods/admins might have, it would have surprised me.

I believe they were complicit in some of the outings that happened to me (which didn't take Sherlock Holmes because I am stupid and left a trail all over the place). But I don't think they were of the completely nasty type. But I could be wrong, because I am as state, stupid some times.

[JohnRobertMoore]

Yeah, I guess I go back and forth on who it was on a pretty regular basis. My current theory is that it was not the Admin in question who procured the photos.

So here are the facts. The photos in the email were screencapped from another page where they had been shared. I tried my best to identify which page because there were little details around the edges which look like facebook, but in the photo viewer of the page they were capped from, the background is dimmed. A number of people could have procured the images, but the easiest way would be from my personal facebook page. No one person received all four of the images sent from me, but all four of them had been sent on facebook at some point.

Evidence that it was not somebody in my immediate circles: The sender of the exposure email had personal emails of a number of people whose emails I didn't even have, who were at high levels of leadership in different organizations. They were specific to the VF circles. It appears that whoever sent it also primarily knew me from my blog, because the people in my life who it would have done the most damage to didn't get the email. They were surgical about timing it with the festival and targeting me, but they were very imprecise outside those circles. They tried to make it appear general but it was not. Also, were it somebody in my life they would have had much better emails for certain organizations, and far worse emails for other leaders of other organizations. And a ton of people were left off the disclosure list entirely, to the letter based on who had been talked about on my blog and who had not. My theory is that somebody in my circles shared the photos to somebody who was not in my circles and knew me primarily through a quick scour through the blog, and then sent them on from there.

It may not have been somebody from FJ. I do know that my identity was disclosed to people who did not know by people to whom it was disclosed in private, but not to people who would have abused that information. So I dunno. I wake up in the mornin' feelin like it was sent by the Admin. I go to bed at night convinced it wasn't. Thankfully, days I don't really think about it at all.

[Maggie Mae]

Wait. So you posted some photos on Facebook and you're mad someone else saw them? Rule #1 of the internet. This isn't someone tricking you into a compromising situation and spreading photos you didn't consent to. This is you doing something dumb and you being upset that people know. Who cares? What kind of weird uptight people are upset about the fact that you put a dildo in your mouth? Are they upset about the weapons trafficking? What about the rapist tool?

[JohnRobertMoore]

a.) Shared to my girlfriend in a private message, who didn't know anyone in any of these circles at all and didn't care to.

b.) Not all of them were sent to her, one of them had to distinctly been taken from my phone or from a separate facebook message sent far prior.

c.) The kind of people who believe in the death penalty for homosexuality would be very upset to find out one of their own had a penis shaped object voluntarily shoved down his throat, be it a real penis or not.

d.) I was in a panic stricken way counting down the days til something like this happened. I had had a conversation with one of my friends the week prior about how I was standing by my choice to live as a bisexual. Most of my close friends knew before it broke. But the people who had the most influence over my life did not.

[hoipolloi]

Evidence that it was not somebody in my immediate circles: The sender of the exposure email had personal emails of a number of people whose emails I didn't even have, who were at high levels of leadership in different organizations. They were specific to the VF circles. It appears that whoever sent it also primarily knew me from my blog, because the people in my life who it would have done the most damage to didn't get the email. They were surgical about timing it with the festival and targeting me, but they were very imprecise outside those circles. They tried to make it appear general but it was not. Also, were it somebody in my life they would have had much better emails for certain organizations, and far worse emails for other leaders of other organizations. And a ton of people were left off the disclosure list entirely, to the letter based on who had been talked about on my blog and who had not. My theory is that somebody in my circles shared the photos to somebody who was not in my circles and knew me primarily through a quick scour through the blog, and then sent them on from there.

It may not have been somebody from FJ. I do know that my identity was disclosed to people who did not know by people to whom it was disclosed in private, but not to people who would have abused that information. So I dunno. I wake up in the mornin' feelin like it was sent by the Admin. I go to bed at night convinced it wasn't. Thankfully, days I don't really think about it at all.

Did you even read Curious' comment above as well as the entire linked thread (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26863&start=220#p1025175)? If not, please don't post any more about this until you do after which I hope you'll see that however the miscreant got your personal information, it almost certainly was NOT through FJ or anyone in admin at FJ.

First, it is far more likely that the criminal already had access to your accounts or knew how to get access due to his/her relationship with you, whether through work, family, or social media friendship (such as being a FB friend, if that's where one or more of the photos were originally posted BY YOU). Note here: it is incredibly easy to save FB photos and other online images through the magical right-click, even if you aren't a FB friend or otherwise connected to the owner of the photos. Also, if you are like many of us and reuse(d) the same password or a similar variant, it wouldn't be difficult for someone who knew you to guess their way into your accounts especially once they had gained access to one of them.

Second, re: bolded in your comment. Do you really, really, REALLY believe that people at FJ (including admins) have the personal, super-sekrit emails of individuals at the "high levels of leadership in different organizations," including VF? Really?? As the saying goes, if you do, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale that you can buy tomorrow or even today, if you act fast enough!

I am sorry that your personal photos were accessed & distributed; it was wrong and should not have happened. That said, however, it is virtually certain that neither FJ nor an FJ admin was responsible for this, no matter how much you go back & forth as to who could have done it, so please stop saying that. Thank you.

[formergothardite]

I think it might be easier to blame FJ than to think that someone close to you most likely did this. The pictures were apparently taken from your phone or FB messages, so yeah, I would think that the most likely scenario is not a FJ moderator but instead someone who you actually know and probably trusted. That sucks, but people can be really shitty.

[Curious]

I'm curious, JRM. If you wouldn't mind answering, did you go to law enforcement when this incident happened?

[JohnRobertMoore]

I think y'all may be missing my point; I'm very well aware that somebody close to me must have initially procured the photos by going to my PC which I left logged in to my account or something of that nature. However there are a lot of obvious indicators that the email which contained screencapped versions of those photos (and they were absolutely screencapped, which may have simply been to hide the origin point of the images or any digital trail, I'm not sure) did not come from somebody in my immediate circles.

Two separate things happened; One, private photos of me were taken either from my phone, or from somebody logged into my facebook account and able to view my private messages there. None of the stolen content was posted publicly. Second, those emails were sent in an attachment, identifying me as the sole owner of the other account here at FJ and calling me a bunch of various slurs. The photos were attached, clearly screencapped and clearly containing the background of either the email browser or the facebook page from which they were lifted.

The email was sent to people that don't make sense. If somebody knew me, they would send it to very different people, and would not have sent it to some of the addresses they did, because they have nothing to do with me and I wasn't connected with them. However, they did send it to a few key people. Interestingly enough, while the content of the email was clearly throwing focus to the photos, the email addresses make it abundantly clear that the goal was to reveal the identity of myself to anybody who was discussed in the old AMA thread here. People I've had literally no communication or contact with received the photo, while numerous people who had power over my life didn't even get a whiff of it, despite literally everybody in my circles knowing who it was.

If it was indeed somebody not associated with this forum, they were a blog reader none-the-less, and primarily knew me through VF circles. The impact of the VF community finding out was nowhere near significant as the ramifications of my local church community finding out, but none of them were contacted. One email was sent to a very old address for my church 'information' account. That was it.

I'm going to go back and read through the thread as hoipolloi has suggested. I wasn't able to see most of those conversations way back and wanted to address it with admins here, but was in full-time self preservation mode and trusted absolutely nobody for a while. Then later, logic put chances of it being the admin here at about 20 percent. As I ruled out other options, their likelihood of involvement increased in my mind, but still sits at less than 50 percent. Nevertheless, I was convinced it was them for the first couple months, and wasn't paying attention to much of the outside world during that time.

[blessalessi]

If we didn't have [apparently graphic] photographic evidence linking you to your real life persona, I would swear you were Burris. :whistle:

[acheronbeach]

Honestly if things happened as you said they did, that's really crappy. But must we threadjack and discuss it ad nauseam?

On another note.. anyone remember how Lydia of purple's husband put secret messages to his new wife in his website? Or how that poor son who came here to post after her death was barely literate? Truly tragic family on all counts. :(

[Palimpsest]

Occam's razor. Someone who knew JRM outed him within his community. He's been as careless as hell with personal info on FB - by his own report. His gossiping on FJ had nothing to do with it - unless it pissed off people he knew IRL who were already out to get him.

If "giving a blow job to a dildo" becomes a post count title, I will probably flounce. This guy is not worthy. :lol: