Let's Go Down the FJ Fundie Rabbit Hole!

[JohnRobertMoore]

I'm afraid the joke is lost on me.... Burris?

So yeah, at the end of the day, what I told my friends was this; I was involved and a lead force in systematically revealing a lot of information about the inner workings of several organizations. It was only a matter of time before somebody chose to return the favor and tell my secrets with extreme prejudice. Not rocket science.

[JohnRobertMoore]

His gossiping on FJ had nothing to do with it - unless it pissed off people he knew IRL who were already out to get him.

On the contrary; it's pretty evident that the thread had everything to do with it. It determined who received the emails, and it determined who got blamed for sending the emails (whether it was really them or not.) To say it had nothing to do with it is pretty misleading. Some of that content existed for ages and wasn't used. The thread was the basis for that email, the photos were just a nugget on top.

[Maggie Mae]

Why do you care what the homophobes think of you? You had a penis shaped object in your mouth. It wasn't even a real penis.

Sucks that your private photos got stolen, but isn't it better to know that you worked and were friends with people who think dildos are worse than weapons trafficking?

[JohnRobertMoore]

Why do you care what the homophobes think of you? You had a penis shaped object in your mouth. It wasn't even a real penis.

Sucks that your private photos got stolen, but isn't it better to know that you worked and were friends with people who think dildos are worse than weapons trafficking?

Absolutely! Ok, so let me just step back here; I was asked to weigh in on the retirement party thing. Then to weigh in on the felony weapons issue. I didn't know almost anything about it, so I shared what little gossip I had heard, which was way behind what most people here already knew. Then people seemed to be accusing me of whitewashing the narrative, my point back was just that I didn't know what was going on and didn't really give a fuck, because I was distracted. This was followed by a whole bunch more comments about how stupid people must be to believe what they were told. My point in return was that a TON of shit was going down for a lot of people, such that it wasn't an issue of believing or not believing, it was an issue of genuinely not caring. Things that seemed far worse and far more immediate were happening in my community and it redirected a lot of attention for all of us. This then got turned into, "Why are you bitching?" To which my point was, "I'm not, I got what was coming to me."

HOWEVER, as I've said numerous times, in numerous places (only recently on this forum), overall I'm not bitter and my life is a thousand times better now than it was before. I wish my exit had been more controlled and more on my terms, but in the end, it expedited a process that already really needed to happen.

But yeah, the point in bringing this up was just, I don't know what happened with all the felony charges or what was going on with him at that time because he didn't live near me, we didn't ever talk, and it all filtered into my social circles as my social circles were throwing a rope around the nearest tree and dragging me out of bed.

[Palimpsest]

On the contrary; it's pretty evident that the thread had everything to do with it. It determined who received the emails, and it determined who got blamed for sending the emails (whether it was really them or not.) To say it had nothing to do with it is pretty misleading. Some of that content existed for ages and wasn't used. The thread was the basis for that email, the photos were just a nugget on top.

Who started that thread? You.

Who posted on that thread? You.

Who decided what he wanted to disclose to total strangers? You.

Who volunteered verification of his identity to FJ? You.

Who started that thread on the public area of this forum? You.

Who tried to protect you by putting it in "somewhat" but not guaranteed to be protected area on FJ to try to protect your sorry butt? FJ admins.

Here is the thread. You can't access it unless you have 75 posts on FJ.

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=3942

Give me patience!

[JohnRobertMoore]

Ok, you seem to be missing the part where I accept responsibility for what happened. But you seem to be insisting that because I need to accept responsibility for it, it could not have possibly had anything whatsoever with anyone related to FJ. For all I know, it was an insider with an account who befriended people and got the information here. My point was just that the emails being sent were motivated by the thread here, and it is still not an impossible assertion that whomever sent them was who they claimed to be, which was an Admin here who had my information, and approached me with similar aggressive language in private messages. I'm not a genius. I'm also not an idiot.

Why are you so hung up on this?

EDIT: Others would like to move on in this thread. If you wanna continue this, by all means we may do so but let's do it in private messages. I know why I'm so invested in this, I have no idea why you are.

[Kailash]

This thread has given me hours of reading time with little or no Duggar's in sight! :worship: I feel giddy thinking of all that I'm going to learn.

[Palimpsest]

Why are you so hung up on this?

EDIT: Others would like to move on in this thread. If you wanna continue this, by all means we may do so but let's do it in private messages. I know why I'm so invested in this, I have no idea why you are.

I'm not hung up on this - you are. I have no interest in exchanging private messages with you.

Back to your regular programming, folks!

[Curious]

FTR, I happen to agree that someone from FJ could have been (and reading more of what JRM actually says happened) perhaps was involved in what happened.

I just disagree with his assumption of it being Alecto.

This happened at a time during great upheaval on FJ and who better to blame than someone that a) absolutely knew his real identity and b) was not exactly popular around here at the time.

Alecto might have been many things, but she was NOT stupid enough to send an email with her "real" name on it outing someone for something like this.

Anyone can make a throwaway email address in another person's pseudonym, which I said at the time it happened. It wasn't an address associated with freejinger.org.

I think it was likely a case of trusting the wrong person/people. Many of us made that mistake.

[blessalessi]

Ok, you seem to be missing the part where I accept responsibility for what happened. But you seem to be insisting that because I need to accept responsibility for it, it could not have possibly had anything whatsoever with anyone related to FJ. For all I know, it was an insider with an account who befriended people and got the information here. My point was just that the emails being sent were motivated by the thread here, and it is still not an impossible assertion that whomever sent them was who they claimed to be, which was an Admin here who had my information, and approached me with similar aggressive language in private messages. I'm not a genius. I'm also not an idiot.

Why are you so hung up on this?

EDIT: Others would like to move on in this thread. If you wanna continue this, by all means we may do so but let's do it in private messages. I know why I'm so invested in this, I have no idea why you are.

You made this a big issue when you outright blamed a former forum admin for the leaked photo. You are still going back and forward now, with different hypotheses.

Please don't speak for others in your haste to move on from this thread. Palimpsest is taking no shit from you, and you clearly feel uncomfortable, but that's tough luck. Count me as another member who is missing the part where you accept responsibility for your own behaviour.

I don't know you personally, either from your original thread or real life. What interests me about your identities here is that each time you have come here, you seem to have have treated the board as a commodity - somewhere that you can get something you need, whether that be attention, or information, or simply the thrill of backstabbing your community under a cloak of anonymity.

You don't seem even now to be engaging at a personal level with anyone. Your posts are littered with mansplanations and lectures about your own experiences.

It seems to me that Palimpsest's investment, that thing she is hung up on in all this, is defending the community that we have here. I know even less about Palimpsest than I do about you, because her posts are not heavily loaded with personal disclosure. But her humour, intelligence and compassion shine through her posts and she is a part of the reason that I have chosen to be a more active member of the community myself.

FYI, Burris was a long-time-member-turned-troll who shredded everyone's last nerve with long posts of self-serving verbiage, littered with hints of a dark and tragic past.

Palimpsest observed wryly at one point, "There have been many times when I wanted Burris to shit or get off the fucking pot. Well, she just had diarrhea."

In your recent posts here, you seem to have done likewise.

[formergothardite]

Is it possible it was a member here involved? Of course. But I would think that there would also be a strong possibility that that member also has connections to VF and you pissed them off by coming here to spread gossip about people. It all comes down to the fact that someone you know well enough to access your phone/FB page stole those pictures and either gave them to someone else knowing they would be sent to certain people or sent them themselves. If a random FJ member can find an email address to some top religious leaders, so can a "friend" of yours who is mad at you. If it had to do with the thread that you started here, then it makes sense they didn't send it to one group of people and instead sent it to another and tried to blame Free Jinger, so that isn't an indication it didn't come from your group of "friends".

So it still seems like you are desperately trying to find a way to blame Free Jinger because it is easier to accept that someone here did it than to accept that someone in your life did it. As hard as it is to accept, it makes much more sense for it to have come from someone you know.

And no, I have absolutely no desire to have a PM conversation with you. You openly blamed Free Jinger for this happening so I think it is best to continue the conversation openly.

[treemom]

Also I apologize for putting your previous username in a post about you. It was redacted but still I am sorry.

[thoughtful]

You made this a big issue when you outright blamed a former forum admin for the leaked photo.

John -- this.

Of course someone who reads at FJ, or is a member, could have been involved. We had thousands of members, even then -- anyone in the world who is over 18 can sign up.

But, after originally saying that someone manipulated the situation to make it seem like a moderator at FJ did it, you switched to saying that a mod did it, and just casually dropped that in the middle of a post, stated as fact.

That's what started this -- it was hard to ignore. I'm not even saying that it couldn't be true. It just concerns me because it could have the implication, to some people, that it is the kind of action that is policy here, that the management approves of and even does.

I'm one of the people who is always posting things like "You can't say 'FJ did/said/believes this or that' because we are over 10,000 individuals." But blaming someone who was a mod or admin for something so vicious is a bit different from saying that someone who is a forum member did it. Yes, they are individuals, too, but it smacks more of being an accusation of the forum.

So I noticed it, and wanted you to make it clear why you now stated it as fact, or apologized for doing so because you don't have proof. So far, you have not, unless I missed something.

To everyone else, I'm missing where it became assumed that he is talking about Alecto. I don't see anything he said that pins it to any one person.

[Palimpsest]

To everyone else, I'm missing where it became assumed that he is talking about Alecto. I don't see anything he said that pins it to any one person.

About 2 pages back JRM initially stated, "By a moderator here at FJ, outing me as a source in a very significant privacy breach."

When I challenged that it became, "a former admin here who had confirmation of my involvement."

I made the assumption that he meant Alecto because on another thread someone (Curious?) confirmed that A. had verified him. I was trying to stay very far from the drama when JRM first graced us with his presence so I wouldn't have remembered.

Be that as it may, I want to clarify that I think sending JRM's naughty photos to his employers and ministries he had been involved with was a really horrible thing to do. I am sorry that it happened to him and sorry that he was betrayed by people he trusted.

I also feel terrible that there is even a ghost of a chance that a former member of FJ would do such a dreadful thing. I still believe it unlikely, however, and think he should look elsewhere.

It is also very sad that photographs of a young man and a sex toy are so horrifying to JRM's previous community that he was ostracized over it. I don't see being photographed with a sex toy as a terrible thing. Immature, perhaps, and sharing the images via social media rather stupid, but hardly a sin or a crime.

I suppose the lesson here is to be very careful what you share on the internet and who you choose to trust everywhere.

[JohnRobertMoore]

Goooooootcha. Yeah, the statement saying it was for sure an FJ admin was meant to reflect what was going on in my head at the time of the felony weapons thing coming up. I've had long conversations for years on and off about this with some of my friends from FJ, and they can verify for you that I have been pretty sure it was not her for a couple years now. But there is still that chance. And it likely was done in retaliation for my gossip here, so FJ is connected, not to blame.

EDIT: And yeah, I assumed it was Alecto at the time, simply because Alecto had verified my identity, it was signed by Alecto, and the email address was AlectoFreeJinger. The thing is, the email wasn't sent to me until it was forwarded to me after the fact by somebody else had received it. By that time, the discussion of it had burned it into my brain that it was in fact Alecto and a panicked animal doesn't think straight. I was avoiding naming names directly simply because since there was no proof, it didn't make sense to make a direct connection.

I totally admit there was no proof, and I also apologize for wording it in such a way that it seemed like I was currently of the believe that it was for sure an admin here, cause that hasn't been my stance for some time. But I still maintain that there is a thin thread of possibility. Pissed off people do stupid things, like sign there names to emails.

And I should also point out, my community wasn't pissed just because of those photos, but because of what it implied, and my sexual involvement with men (and women; frankly any sexual involvement) given that I was being allowed to speak and teach in church and had a lot of leadership due to the filmmaking projects which they had all supported. I basically kept up a lie for my own benefit, and that was the reason for the real community outrage. Had I just come forward and told everyone, they wouldn't have taken it so badly. The double life and deception was the real instigation of anger, and I think more rightfully so than how upset they were about the photos. And that's also why I accept full responsibility. If somebody sent those photos now, it wouldn't be so damaging because people know where I stand. Honesty would have prevented the problem in the first place.

[thoughtful]

Goooooootcha. Yeah, the statement saying it was for sure an FJ admin was meant to reflect what was going on in my head at the time of the felony weapons thing coming up. I've had long conversations for years on and off about this with some of my friends from FJ, and they can verify for you that I have been pretty sure it was not her for a couple years now. But there is still that chance. And it likely was done in retaliation for my gossip here, so FJ is connected, not to blame.

Thank you -- that makes a big difference!

[Palimpsest]

On another note.. anyone remember how Lydia of purple's husband put secret messages to his new wife in his website? Or how that poor son who came here to post after her death was barely literate? Truly tragic family on all counts. :(

Hold the phone! What? I'd totally forgotten that.

We discussed the boys posting on FJ earlier in the thread and I agree that the whole situation was tragic.

[JMarie]

Emily. Definitely Emily. It wasn't that she was super fundie. It was her extreme cheapness. Not using the heat during winter, while living in Maine? Using the walk-in closet as a bedroom for her three kids? The anemic little mock hot pockets she would make in her crock pot (and never using the actual oven)? Is she homeschooling the kids? How's Therese doing? Inquiring minds want to know!

[VaSportsMom]

Why do you care what the homophobes think of you? You had a penis shaped object in your mouth. It wasn't even a real penis.

Sucks that your private photos got stolen, but isn't it better to know that you worked and were friends with people who think dildos are worse than weapons trafficking?

Like a child, I can't quit giggling over the use of "sucks" in relation to this particular situation.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

Hold the phone! What? I'd totally forgotten that.

We discussed the boys posting on FJ earlier in the thread and I agree that the whole situation was tragic.

I remember that (the messages on the website and I went back and looked at the old Yuku thread on the family). It seems like Colleen really was the glue that held that family together and when she died things just fell to pieces. :(

[Seven Severn]

This has been driving me crazy: Who were the people who got married where there were piano lessons involved (I think)? She was quite young with long red hair and gorgeous and he was late(?) 40s, smarmy, and greasy-looking. He might also have been red-haired with a bad comb-over. The whole thing was weird and gross. Is this ringing bells with anyone?

ETA: Found it! I missed it the first time I searched: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=19325&p=827415&hilit=piano+lessons#p827415

ETA #2: Bruce is a private music teacher in California per his LinkedIn profile.

[acheronbeach]

Ooh, I have another memory...

MAKAZIVILLE! Remember that terrible John-Shrader-style "African missionary" game that the Duggars pimped out? We all invaded it and chose names like "FatJosh" and "MomsUnpaidBabysitter" and made rude messages out of the field crops?

[sockinshoe]

Ooh, I have another memory...

MAKAZIVILLE! Remember that terrible John-Shrader-style "African missionary" game that the Duggars pimped out? We all invaded it and chose names like "FatJosh" and "MomsUnpaidBabysitter" and made rude messages out of the field crops?

I actually had a "serious" account. I was testing the game out and decided to accept it on its own terms and actually play through all the stuff. Even then it was a snoozefest. Boredom (and an aversion to thinly veiled colonialism/racism) is what made me give up.

[CallmeChaCha]

Ooh, I have another memory...

MAKAZIVILLE! Remember that terrible John-Shrader-style "African missionary" game that the Duggars pimped out? We all invaded it and chose names like "FatJosh" and "MomsUnpaidBabysitter" and made rude messages out of the field crops?

Did anyone take screenshots of this and post them here?

[Maggie Mae]

Did anyone take screenshots of this and post them here?

There's a video here: duggarfamilyblog.com/2012/01/play-makaziville.html