Joshley Madison Pt 3: Storming Satan's Hidden Fortress

[usmcmom]

Considering Pa Keller's very low standards for his sons-in-law, I'm beginning to wonder what dirty little secrets he could be hiding. Clearly, he has no expectation of faithfulness, devotion and respect in a marriage.

[Snarkle]

Haven't all of the Keller daughters moved some distance from home? Anna has spent the majority of her married life within a stone's throw of her inlaws and the Duggar family which is three times larger than her own. She was literally outnumbered at the start of her marriage and had to leave and cleave. Yes, there was the interlude in DC, but that must feel like some dream at this point considering what a high they were on there as a Model Fundie Family, and now to have retreated in disgrace where the hits just keep on coming. She is more a Duggar than a Keller now, and now she's right back into the Duggar sphere of influence where she'll be encouraged to, perhaps required to, work things out. Pa Keller deals in prison ministry and probably talks all the time about how those who make mistakes and repent and turn toward the Lord are forgiven, so for him to forgive Josh of his glossed-over "youthful transgressions" and give his blessing wouldn't be too surprising. He was probably thrilled the golden boy of a fundie royal family had interest in his Anna, especially after his other daughters broke away. At least he doesn't have any more daughters to marry off since his track record as a protector has pretty much been 0 for 5.

[lizbeth]

I'm itching to know when, if ever, we'll get a statement from Anna. Not that it will be very satisfying. Probably just generic, "My beloved husband is a flawed man," BS.

[pea3]

Anyone else think that some blame will be put on the internet and all the evil it has to offer! I could see them completely banning it because of all the horrible things it "made" Josh do. They have to blame something and since the show has been cancelled they really don't need to keep the public up to date on Facebook etc to keep the show popular anymore. We may see a complete lock down on all posts!

[Pennyrose]

Was there ever true love between Josh and Anna?

My take on Josh and Anna's chemistry: there was none, or very little. Anna was infatuated and Josh was severely feeling his hormones.

Yep, I'd agree with that. Remember all the matching/coordinating outfits? That was surely her idea. She tried very hard to forge as much of a connection as she could within the courtship rules, while he always struck me as being more emotionally distant from her. Just gong along. I think he cared about her, but wasn't "in love" with her.

[princessmahina]

You know, I've cheated once. On a boyfriend, not a husband, but still.

I used to do this too. I'd go to bed with him, try to get out of sex, then after he fell asleep, I wouldn't be able to....so I'd go online.

I wanted out of the relationship, but he was such a great guy that I was in denial about how unhappy I was. I couldn't figure out why I didn't want to have sex with him anymore or why I couldn't sleep. I cheated because deep down, I wanted OUT so bad. Subconsciously, I was desperate...but I couldn't figure out how or why to leave. I couldn't admit to myself that it wasn't working, so I couldn't act on those desires responsibly. Then one day, it just all boiled over and...

It was wrong, but it did make me come to terms with how much I wanted to leave the relationship. He was also emotionally abusive, which I didn't realize until after I cheated. In the end, I don't regret cheating. He was gaslighting me, and the cheating was what snapped me out of it.

I wonder if Josh is in the same position I was: he wants OUT, but he couldn't admit to himself that it's not working or that he needs to divorce. This is a guy who clearly just wants to have sex, but he has a wife who wants more and more kids. If Josh doesn't want more kids and Anna refuses to use any sort of contraception, that's a really serious situation in a marriage. In that case, two people have very different needs, and if neither is willing to budge...well...

I'm not saying what Josh did was right. It isn't. But if I couldn't use BC for some reason and my husband refused to wear a condom because he wants kids and I don't...that would be terrible. That would be like blackmailing me into children, using sex as leverage to get what my partner wants (and I don't).

Edit: I'm not trying to blame or defend. I'm just saying there are two sides to every cheating story. There was to mine.

Are you me? No, really. I could have written this, emotionally abusive ex and all. Only I cheated with two guys, not one. Because I'm kind of a shitty person like that. :cry:

[Fallgirl30]

Considering Pa Keller's very low standards for his sons-in-law, I'm beginning to wonder what dirty little secrets he could be hiding. Clearly, he has no expectation of faithfulness, devotion and respect in a marriage.

I don't thnk there is anything he is hiding. These prospective grooms all come from what look like "fine families" on paper, so what could it hurt, right? But, these kids are married off so young, no one really knows how they will turn out, in terms of character, being a provider, etc. It's been an unmitigated disaster. There do not seem to be many fundy families, who aren't. But, all they know is, if everyone follows the Bible, it will turn out ok, it doesn't really matter to whom one is married, just that they follow these strict gender roles, and they "train up" the arrows in their quivers. Which makes me think, the generations of kids involved in all this crap, will be emotional basket cases. I never knew any of this even existed until I came to FJ. We haven't seen one successful family, in this lifestyle.

[usmcmom]

You know, I've cheated once. On a boyfriend, not a husband, but still.

I used to do this too. I'd go to bed with him, try to get out of sex, then after he fell asleep, I wouldn't be able to....so I'd go online.

I wanted out of the relationship, but he was such a great guy that I was in denial about how unhappy I was. I couldn't figure out why I didn't want to have sex with him anymore or why I couldn't sleep. I cheated because deep down, I wanted OUT so bad. Subconsciously, I was desperate...but I couldn't figure out how or why to leave. I couldn't admit to myself that it wasn't working, so I couldn't act on those desires responsibly. Then one day, it just all boiled over and...

It was wrong, but it did make me come to terms with how much I wanted to leave the relationship. He was also emotionally abusive, which I didn't realize until after I cheated. In the end, I don't regret cheating. He was gaslighting me, and the cheating was what snapped me out of it.

I wonder if Josh is in the same position I was: he wants OUT, but he couldn't admit to himself that it's not working or that he needs to divorce. This is a guy who clearly just wants to have sex, but he has a wife who wants more and more kids. If Josh doesn't want more kids and Anna refuses to use any sort of contraception, that's a really serious situation in a marriage. In that case, two people have very different needs, and if neither is willing to budge...well...

I'm not saying what Josh did was right. It isn't. But if I couldn't use BC for some reason and my husband refused to wear a condom because he wants kids and I don't...that would be terrible. That would be like blackmailing me into children, using sex as leverage to get what my partner wants (and I don't).

Edit: I'm not trying to blame or defend. I'm just saying there are two sides to every cheating story. There was to mine.

I'm not meaning to be argumentative - just curious. Do you think Anna could actually refuse to use birth control? She isn't allowed to refuse anything her husband demands. If he wanted to have sex while using a condom, she would have to allow that. I imagine Josh could even find a way to force her to take birth control pills. He could have had a vasectomy and she'd have to shut her mouth and deal with it. I really am just so curious as to what he really thought was acceptable. I guess he thought divorce and/or birth control were more heinous sins than having an affair???

I appreciate your sharing your story. It's very interesting to see your perspective and I hope you are in a good and happy place now.

[Season of life...]

Some interesting perspectives and observations there, Season of Life. I agree that TLC revealed how self-centered Josh is. Not from TLC, but remember the photo of Josh and Anna speaking at a conference and while she has the microphone, he's checking messages on his phone? TLC DID show us Josh napping while his wife was in labor. I will always be curious about the time Josh and his sisters visited Anna--pre-wedding--to help make the bridesmaid dresses and Josh ended up taking just his sisters out to dinner because Anna was home, sick. I always wondered if she was miffed about something and didn't want to go.

I remember how immature that seemed annnnnnd....SOL, did you seriously just use Jill-Rod's favorite adjective?!! :lol: :wink-penguin:

That's too funny; I didn't use it intentionally, but I had just been reading her blog before I signed on here--I've been compromised! Darn it, Jill! BTW, I like your avatar. :D

[socalrules]

I'm itching to know when, if ever, we'll get a statement from Anna. Not that it will be very satisfying. Probably just generic, "My beloved husband is a flawed man," BS.

I am surprised we have not heard any statement from Anna as a Godly supportive wife. She was quick to come out with a statement when the molestation story broke. I am sure the family is trying to figure out the best way to spin this and Anna doesn't really have a say in whether to come out with a statement or what it says. If you can defend molestation you can defend cheating as cheating is much easier to deal with. Then again, it's easier to defend someone when you are not the victim of their actions.

I am sure the Duggars will be shocked to find out that there are kinds of Christians, non-Christians, spiritual, atheists and people who worship lettuce, that have not molested anyone, cheated on their spouse nor ever would.

[HarryPotterFan]

That's what he said.

Hehehe.

I think I'm going to embroider this as a sampler thing. Any suggestions for colors and design?

[Gimme a Free RV]

That's too funny; I didn't use it intentionally, but I had just been reading her blog before I signed on here--I've been compromised! Darn it, Jill! BTW, I like your avatar. :D

Ack! Do NOT allow yourself to be assimilated into the Jill Rodrigues Collective. Go, wash your face right now, get all that green eyeliner off and write 100 times, in cursive: "I endeavor to sever my use of severe."

[chila]

It's so unfortunate how this could have been prevented had Jim and Michelle sought out licensed professionals to counsel Josh following the molestations.

There's nothing wrong with seeking spiritual guidance in times of need,, but sexual abuse has to be dealt with very delicately if there's any hope of correcting the abuser and preventing further unhealthy sexual or emotional behaviors.

Josh never got the counseling he needed, so something like this was bound to happen.

[Season of life...]

Hehehe.

I think I'm going to embroider this as a sampler thing. Any suggestions for colors and design?

Hmmm...I would go traditional with a lovely 'birds and the bees' motif. The stingers on the bees could be a darling way to underscore that no means no.

[church_of_dog]

Hehehe.

I think I'm going to embroider this as a sampler thing. Any suggestions for colors and design?

[Odd1Out]

Not completely on topic, but were

Josh and Anna at Michaela's wedding?

[Dandruff]

I'm itching to know when, if ever, we'll get a statement from Anna. Not that it will be very satisfying. Probably just generic, "My beloved husband is a flawed man," BS.

I'm starting to imagine a claim of marital stress due to moving/the show/small children, that they've been working on issues in their marriage for some time (before the latest news broke), and it's an ongoing process which will be continued privately.

[apandaaries]

The BC discussion is always interesting, but it's easy to forget that these two wrote in special vows for their wedding ceremony about accepting ALL of God's blessings. They vowed in front of their families and friends, in front of the church, in front of the documenting cameras, that they would NOT use birth control. Josh may have just been pretending to be the golden child, but he was pretending as hard as he could. I don't think Anna was pretending when she spoke those vows.

Despite all the premarital handsex, I don't think Josh and Anna ever exhibited the kind of chemistry any honest person would want to have in their married lives, if they're the kind of person who values sex. No one ever got the impression that they ever figured out their kissing style. Good friends, maybe, but great lovers, no.

It doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine that this awkwardness extended into their intimate discussions. How could he honestly express a desire to limit the size of their family if she legitimately thought they would be sinning against God by doing so? I get the feeling that they never got as close as they could have, and then they grew further apart over time.

Elsewhere I mentioned that I think that couples who deal with affairs knew on some level that things were off. I think they often suspect affairs, but sometimes it can be more broad and vague than that. Remember the couples retreat they went on, as a gift from JB and DQ? There were signs that things were off and their marriage needed attention -- his PARENTS noticed -- even if they didn't know exactly how bad things were.

[Sweet Spirit]

All these years we've been burdened with the most dull reality tv series of all time and now suddenly when things get interesting there is no show. :angry-banghead:

[Beermeet]

The BC discussion is always interesting, but it's easy to forget that these two wrote in special vows for their wedding ceremony about accepting ALL of God's blessings. They vowed in front of their families and friends, in front of the church, in front of the documenting cameras, that they would NOT use birth control. Josh may have just been pretending to be the golden child, but he was pretending as hard as he could. I don't think Anna was pretending when she spoke those vows.

Despite all the premarital handsex, I don't think Josh and Anna ever exhibited the kind of chemistry any honest person would want to have in their married lives, if they're the kind of person who values sex. No one ever got the impression that they ever figured out their kissing style. Good friends, maybe, but great lovers, no.

It doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine that this awkwardness extended into their intimate discussions. How could he honestly express a desire to limit the size of their family if she legitimately thought they would be sinning against God by doing so? I get the feeling that they never got as close as they could have, and then they grew further apart over time.

Elsewhere I mentioned that I think that couples who deal with affairs knew on some level that things were off. I think they often suspect affairs, but sometimes it can be more broad and vague than that. Remember the couples retreat they went on, as a gift from JB and DQ? There were signs that things were off and their marriage needed attention -- his PARENTS noticed -- even if they didn't know exactly how bad things were.

Whoa! I must have missed that episode!

What kind of signs?! JB and Mullet thought this necessary? They have not been married long.

I did notice Josh being distant, sleepy and uninterested. Unless David Waller was around. Maybe Josh feels good being around him. DW's Skelton's are worse.

[JenniferJuniper]

Not completely on topic, but were

Josh and Anna at Michaela's wedding?

Yes, they were there with their kids, although Josh seems to have avoided most photographers.

[meowmeow19]

Whoa! I must have missed that episode!

What kind of signs?! JB and Mullet thought this necessary? They have not been married long.

I did notice Josh being distant, sleepy and uninterested. Unless David Waller was around. Maybe Josh feels good being around him. DW's Skelton's are worse.

I have always had deep suspicion that David Waller and Josh Duggar were forced to be accountability partners. I think both have been caught looking at porn and sinister images on the internet. Priscilla said in her vows she would have access to all of his internet and Josh, I'm guessing this isn't news to JB and Michelle. Honestly I think Anna has known about a lot of this, maybe not the physical but definitely the porn.

I don't know if David's skeletons are worse, he maybe be a closet gay but Josh touched his baby sisters sexually.

[Beermeet]

I have always had deep suspicion that David Waller and Josh Duggar were forced to be accountability partners. I think both have been caught looking at porn and sinister images on the internet. Priscilla said in her vows she would have access to all of his internet and Josh, I'm guessing this isn't news to JB and Michelle. Honestly I think Anna has known about a lot of this, maybe not the physical but definitely the porn.

I don't know if David's skeletons are worse, he maybe be a closet gay but Josh touched his baby sisters sexually.

.

In our world it is for sure! Theirs is gross, twisted and alien to me. Anna may have known or suspected at least. When your partner distances themselves from you, you feel it in your gut.

Poor Anna. Its so much. She most likely has to pray and keep calm. With JB and M even.

[Beermeet]

And, OMFG. who puts that in their wedding vows?!You should never marry someone who needs that. You won't win!

[ClaraOswin]

Anyone follow Lawson Bates on Instagram? If so...his recent post has to be about Josh, right?

instagram.com/p/6tbgkxPfRv/?taken-by=lawbates

It's a picture that just says - "Sin wouldn't be so attractive if the wages were paid immediately." And the caption is....

Romans 6

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

James 1

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.