Joshley Madison Pt 3: Storming Satan's Hidden Fortress

[Fascinated]

Could anyone with a fundie background tell me if they would/could go the route of so many fallen celebrities and send Josh to a real (non-Gothard sanctioned or construction type) rehab centre? I just don't see too many other ways Josh could employ to attempt to redeem himself in the eyes of the public, and, more importantly, Anna. Thoughts?

[Analytica49]

It makes me wonder if they're finally realizing that their golden boy is in fact a total phony, a smug creep who frequently came across as thinking he was superior to the rest of the family. I also wonder how the other young men in the family feel about Josh.

This is a good question. I've been thinking about John-David, in particular. He's made it clear, despite Jim-Boob goading him, that he doesn't want to get married.

I wonder if J-D knows something about Smuggar's marriage, and what he knows makes him not want to go the courtship-engagement-wedding route, with no sex allowed until the marriage night.

I also wonder about Joseph, since we almost never hear about him.

And then there's Josiah. Didn't Smuggar himself predict, at one point, that Josiah would be the next brother to court? And he was. Yet it's hard not to wonder if there was some connection between Josiah's courtship, and Josiah's sentence to that horrible pseudo-military camp he was sent to for months and months.

Just thinking about the three brothers coming after Smuggar, I wonder how their lives have been formed, or deformed, either by Jim-Boob's fears that a son might turn out to be another Smuggar, or by their own reactions to Smuggar's pathetic life.

[meep]

Could anyone with a fundie background tell me if they would/could go the route of so many fallen celebrities and send Josh to a real (non-Gothard sanctioned or construction type) rehab centre? I just don't see too many other ways Josh could employ to attempt to redeem himself in the eyes of the public, and, more importantly, Anna. Thoughts?

Of course they technically could, they would just have to be uber discrete and secretive about it.

[meep]

I think Josh could write our tell-all book. If in the event JB & M want to stay as far away from him as possible (likely at this point even), if they stop treating him like their golden child, I could see him doing it. Not just for money that he probably desperately needs at this point (or soon), he would do it out of a twisted vengeance for not being their super special snowflake anymore.

[blessalessi]

Could anyone with a fundie background tell me if they would/could go the route of so many fallen celebrities and send Josh to a real (non-Gothard sanctioned or construction type) rehab centre? I just don't see too many other ways Josh could employ to attempt to redeem himself in the eyes of the public, and, more importantly, Anna. Thoughts?

I don't think that his church would see traditional rehab as being compatible with biblical teaching. Mainly because it would not involve biblical teaching.

Personally I think rehab would be potentially dangerous for Josh right now. I don't think rehab is designed for people to be "sent to". It requires people to face up to their choices and be in a place where they are ready to confront reality in a communal setting. All of Josh's adult life has been spent putting on a show for the public and I suspect traditional rehab could potentially replicate that dynamic in a very unhelpful way for him (not to mention serving as a huge distraction for the other clients!)

If Josh himself wants to change and to really reflect hard on what he has done, then I would think he would benefit much more from some 1-1 time with a very skilled therapist. Face-to-face with one person whose career depends on giving him the 100% privacy and the time and space for personal growth that his parents totally failed to give him whilst he was a child.

[bubblekitty]

So the nsfw twitter has the same pic as his OK cupid account but that is a generic pic plucked from the web. The tweets were from 2014 until May 2015 when he quit his Ashley Madison because of the molesting scandal. However I can't see any connection between those the twitter account follows (adult entertainment stars) and his secret FB friends list which operated during the same period. None of the people match. I would think there would be some crossover but can't find any. I suspect the twitter is someone elses.

[nana sew dear]

Perhaps they could televise the family stoning Josh? I bet Anna has thought about it!

I am being flip but honestly I am heart-sick for Anna who, despite what we all think about her continuing to support this A-hole, must feel as though the ground as disappeared beneath her feet. Who hasn't had a bad thing happen and thought about how they were so happy yesterday? Why can't I go back to yesterday? :(

[HerNameIsBuffy]

This is a good question. I've been thinking about John-David, in particular. He's made it clear, despite Jim-Boob goading him, that he doesn't want to get married.

I wonder if J-D knows something about Smuggar's marriage, and what he knows makes him not want to go the courtship-engagement-wedding route, with no sex allowed until the marriage night.

I also wonder about Joseph, since we almost never hear about him.

And then there's Josiah. Didn't Smuggar himself predict, at one point, that Josiah would be the next brother to court? And he was. Yet it's hard not to wonder if there was some connection between Josiah's courtship, and Josiah's sentence to that horrible pseudo-military camp he was sent to for months and months.

Just thinking about the three brothers coming after Smuggar, I wonder how their lives have been formed, or deformed, either by Jim-Boob's fears that a son might turn out to be another Smuggar, or by their own reactions to Smuggar's pathetic life.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with wondering if there is a correlation to Josiah attending Alert and his courtship. If the implication is he had some similar issues there is zero reason to think that's the case.

I think Smuggar is awful, but it's not fair to suspect anything nepharious about his brothers because of what he did. This seems close to speculating about the sexual activity of kids (or kidults) who still live at home with their parents. The rule against that is because that kind of speculation can be really harmful to them.

And if you mean coming after him physically I can't even imagine that. This is the Duggars, not the Black Donnelleys. Brawlers they're not, Duggars dont hit anyone big enough to hit back. :snooty:

Edited to remove stowaway apostrophe.

[2manyKidzzz]

If this is affecting you physically it could help to take a break. It's not like it's something in your personal life that dwelling on it could maybe lead you to a solution. When emotional upheaval is about a strangers problems it's best to walk away for a while - nothing you can do.

My god how pompous this is. Speaking metaphorically, I find it nauseating. I'm sure you are extremely arrogant......just lay off. Really. Who have I bothered like this on this forum. nada.

[Arrowoftruth]

Okay so imagine if this had came out first, then the new season had started and then the molestation stories had came out...Do you think Josh would have been seen more, less or equal monsterous? Also how do you think they would have handled the cheating scandal on the show?

[jinseng]

So apparently josh "liked" on facebook, that reality show "The Hills". Aside from the pretty girls, I wonder if he watched it to see what it was like to live a somewhat normal teenage-early-twenties life? You know, going to college, dating, going out with friends to clubs and parties. Part of me really feels for him... how imprisoning his life has been.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

My god how pompous this is. Speaking metaphorically, I find it nauseating. I'm sure you are extremely arrogant......just lay off. Really. Who have I bothered like this on this forum. nada.

Despite how you read it, I wrote it to be kind. We've had posters who get so upset by this that it affects their health, ability to sleep, and real life. It's not unheard of.

If you were speaking metaphorically that wasn't committed clearly. To me you seemed distraught. I think this is a pretty strong reaction to a fairly benign comment, but if you're not upset then disregard.

[NormalBikiniWearingMom]

"Drinking the Tater Tot Kool-Aid" is our newest post count title! :dance:

*curtseys*

[2manyKidzzz]

Despite how you read it, I wrote it to be kind. We've had posters who get so upset by this that it affects their health, ability to sleep, and real life. It's not unheard of.

If you were speaking metaphorically that wasn't committed clearly. To me you seemed distraught. I think this is a pretty strong reaction to a fairly benign comment, but if you're not upset then disregard.

You have no need to dictate to people. We are discussing the Duggars. Distraught? Hardly. So, just respect other people and don't be preachy. that would take care of it. And saying I had a strong reaction to a benign comment is again pretty pompous. So, now you know how you come across. Cause that's how you come across. I am just chatting along.

[Laurabelle]

Wonder what Jill Rod. and Ken/Lori are thinking about all of this??

[FunFunFundie]

Jill posted an update about her sister where she was slobbering over the Duggars (written after the scandal broke), and on her Facebook page she posted a comment about praying for them in their time of hardship. I think she is hoping some of their fame will rub off on her, especially since they've been knocked down to a level that she could dream about attaining.

[twinmama]

Radar On Line has a link that takes you to a site named Naughtgossip, stating that Josh is demanding $100,000 to do an interview. May be total BS, but it would not surprise me in the least that he would be willing to embarrass his wife and children even more for the all mighty dollar. If it is true, bet that Jim Bob is getting a cut or all of it to help make up for the loss of income. I truly despise this family!

If people are willing to give him that kind of money to talk, more power to him requiring it. Would you seriously turn down $100,000 for an interview??? His life is kinda fucked regardless, might as well make money to support his family since he has no other way to do that. As for embarrassing his wife and children, any interview he does will be total damage control that I am sure is overseen by PR people galore.

[twinmama]

Think about it, Josh is the one that has been the most visibly miserable these past few years. He's clearly not into his whole fundie thing, hence the sad smiles, dead eyes, and Ashely Madison account.

What if he's the one that leaves Anna and writes a book about sexual repression and overly-controlling parents?

I think that it's far more likely at this point that Josh is the one that will be the one that leaves and drops a grenade on his way out.

If it wasn't for the molestation thing, which I do hold against him despite his parents and upbringing, I would be totally on board for this kind of thing. What he did is a perfect representation of what that lifestyle leads to. IMO, the molestation thing is the out of the ordinary response to the situation. The cheating and seeking a normal connection with someone (rather than marrying a stranger and hoping you're compatible) makes total sense.

[Laurabelle]

Jill posted an update about her sister where she was slobbering over the Duggars (written after the scandal broke), and on her Facebook page she posted a comment about praying for them in their time of hardship. I think she is hoping some of their fame will rub off on her, especially since they've been knocked down to a level that she could dream about attaining.

Of course she did. Oh, Jill. *eye roll* She's probably feeling pretty good about herself, feeling a little closer to them on the fundy totem pole.

[mfch]

See i am feeling so weird about all this.

I am beginning to sympathise with Josh.

Don't get me wrong. He's a class A douchebag and poor Anna, I feel terrible for her.

But I am beginning to think Smuggar has never actually bought into all this crap. Which yes, makes him a massive hypocrite but it's not like he had much choice.

He was married off, not like he had much of a choice. I believe the molestation occurred because he was taught sex is bad and evil and not socialised or educated. Doesn't excuse it, but it provides some explanation.

Then Joshie gets married off and gets to have The Sex. But Anna, sweet as she is, adoring as she is, isn't exciting. She's a bit boring. He has more freedom- he's in DC- he thinks he can have his cake and eat it. He absolutely did not want M4, three is already too many he's young, he's beginning to live a bit and have some independence away from Duggarville and JB and he's meeting women who aren't boring fundie virgins or sweet Anna who is about as sexually exciting as a labrador puppy and just wants more babies.

I mean, as a normal human being, I don't totally blame him.

If they wash their hands of him rather than doing the whole repenting song and dance and make he and Anna stay together- they will never be happy together, it's just not going to happen- then I do agree with those who say JOSH might be our first break away Duggar. He doesn't buy it, if he's brave enough and I am not sure he is, he might be the one to say no I won't be the repentant sinner, I will leave and be my own person. Of course, this would mean leaving his family and kids.

I can't see it happening.

But in some ways I feel sorry for him. He doesn't drink the kool aid. He knows there's more to life, and although it's super dodgy, cheating on your wife isn't illegal.

I mean it's easy to judge, but I get to live my nice atheist, feminist life and be who I am. I sort of feel sorry for Josh a bit, he's stuck.

[HermioneSparrow]

I'm watching a movie with adam sandler where his wife signs up in ashley madison to have an affair and he goes looking for escorts... i think i could see anna cheating as well if their marriage wasn't fullfilling to neither of them. FYI, i'm not saying she did.

[blessalessi]

I believe the molestation occurred because he was taught sex is bad and evil and not socialised or educated. Doesn't excuse it, but it provides some explanation.

He was taught that sex was an awesome thing reserved for marriage, and his parents demonstrated this by dry-humping at regular intervals.

Don't get me wrong, I think his parents are fucked up failures in a multitude of ways, but positive sex-education is a relatively modern phenomenon. A lack of sex education alone doesn't anywhere near explain his continuing, escalating choice to molest his sisters over a period of several years.

[singsingsing]

Really? I do blame him. I totally blame him. If he wasn't buying into fundamentalism, there are so many things he could have done differently. He could have said, "So long, mom and dad. I love you but I can't live this life. I'm going to move out/work/go to college." He could have dated like a normal person. He could have masturbated. He could have pursued casual sex or whatever as a single person. Or he could have exercised some of that self-control they're always preaching about. If he didn't realize all of this until after he'd already married Anna, he could have either sucked it up and tried to make the relationship work WITHOUT going behind her back and living this disgusting double life, OR he could have bit the bullet and divorced her. Instead he chose to live as a hypocrite and a coward and left a slew of victims in his wake. This wasn't just one or two mistakes, it was over a decade of abusive, deceitful, and damaging behaviour.

He is not stuck. He is a 27-year-old man with free will. Did he get a crappy start in life? Yes. Do I feel bad that happened to him? Absolutely. Does it excuse him being a sexual predator and adulterer? Absolutely not. In the end, nobody forced him to do anything. In fact, he was the golden child, he was doted on, his crimes were forgiven, his victims rushed to defend him, he was handed everything on a silver platter, and he chose his own path. My sympathy is for Anna, for his children, and for the girls he victimized. Josh Duggar can suck my proverbial dick.

(Edited for riffles)

[HermioneSparrow]

See i am feeling so weird about all this.

I am beginning to sympathise with Josh.

Don't get me wrong. He's a class A douchebag and poor Anna, I feel terrible for her.

But I am beginning to think Smuggar has never actually bought into all this crap. Which yes, makes him a massive hypocrite but it's not like he had much choice.

He was married off, not like he had much of a choice. I believe the molestation occurred because he was taught sex is bad and evil and not socialised or educated. Doesn't excuse it, but it provides some explanation.

Then Joshie gets married off and gets to have The Sex. But Anna, sweet as she is, adoring as she is, isn't exciting. She's a bit boring. He has more freedom- he's in DC- he thinks he can have his cake and eat it. He absolutely did not want M4, three is already too many he's young, he's beginning to live a bit and have some independence away from Duggarville and JB and he's meeting women who aren't boring fundie virgins or sweet Anna who is about as sexually exciting as a labrador puppy and just wants more babies.

I mean, as a normal human being, I don't totally blame him.

If they wash their hands of him rather than doing the whole repenting song and dance and make he and Anna stay together- they will never be happy together, it's just not going to happen- then I do agree with those who say JOSH might be our first break away Duggar. He doesn't buy it, if he's brave enough and I am not sure he is, he might be the one to say no I won't be the repentant sinner, I will leave and be my own person. Of course, this would mean leaving his family and kids.

I can't see it happening.

But in some ways I feel sorry for him. He doesn't drink the kool aid. He knows there's more to life, and although it's super dodgy, cheating on your wife isn't illegal.

I mean it's easy to judge, but I get to live my nice atheist, feminist life and be who I am. I sort of feel sorry for Josh a bit, he's stuck.

I agree, the guy isn't suited for the lifestyle like i think anna is, and i hope he leaves or something because they won't ever be happy, he clearly doesn't love her and their life together. Hell i bet if he could he would leave her and the kids and never look back. :?

[Mr.Bowie]

See i am feeling so weird about all this.

I am beginning to sympathise with Josh.

Don't get me wrong. He's a class A douchebag and poor Anna, I feel terrible for her.

But I am beginning to think Smuggar has never actually bought into all this crap. Which yes, makes him a massive hypocrite but it's not like he had much choice.

He was married off, not like he had much of a choice. I believe the molestation occurred because he was taught sex is bad and evil and not socialised or educated. Doesn't excuse it, but it provides some explanation.

Then Joshie gets married off and gets to have The Sex. But Anna, sweet as she is, adoring as she is, isn't exciting. She's a bit boring. He has more freedom- he's in DC- he thinks he can have his cake and eat it. He absolutely did not want M4, three is already too many he's young, he's beginning to live a bit and have some independence away from Duggarville and JB and he's meeting women who aren't boring fundie virgins or sweet Anna who is about as sexually exciting as a labrador puppy and just wants more babies.

I mean, as a normal human being, I don't totally blame him.

If they wash their hands of him rather than doing the whole repenting song and dance and make he and Anna stay together- they will never be happy together, it's just not going to happen- then I do agree with those who say JOSH might be our first break away Duggar. He doesn't buy it, if he's brave enough and I am not sure he is, he might be the one to say no I won't be the repentant sinner, I will leave and be my own person. Of course, this would mean leaving his family and kids.

I can't see it happening.

But in some ways I feel sorry for him. He doesn't drink the kool aid. He knows there's more to life, and although it's super dodgy, cheating on your wife isn't illegal.

I mean it's easy to judge, but I get to live my nice atheist, feminist life and be who I am. I sort of feel sorry for Josh a bit, he's stuck.

I completely see your point of view but... my issue is with him potentially feeling how you describe him but still condemning and campaigning against any other belief system or lifestyle.