Josh Duggar had paid Ashley Madison account(s) per Gawker

[Sundaymorning]

I hadn't even heard of them, either... until today. So it's possible Anna just found out as well.

The site was quite known, even I, as a lesbian living in Europe with no interest in having an affair, knew about them.

I learned about this site when there were some newpaper articles about them. Even before the scandal broke, the site was naturally quite controversial, so there were some discussions and articles in the press.

Joshy boy could have read something about them in a newspaper, or maybe he simply googled something like "seeking affair" or whatever.

[fabkiwi06]

Maybe they don't care about diverting the attention away from it.

... is it possible they don't know?

It's not like they have the TLC media team helping them these days. If all you see is ATI-approved news... maybe they don't know yet?

I mean, it's far more likely that those are pre-scheduled photos for Instagram and they're all at the TTH right now watching JB whip Josh with the PVC pipe.

[DeFrauder]

Even if Anna wanted out, would Jim Bob ever give up control over his grandkids?

snip

A lot of people are posting variations of how Anna is trapped and can't get away for some reason.

JB and M have NO CHOICE if Anna leaves and sues for divorce.

No court would EVER take custody away from Anna and give it to JB and M. It would not happen in a million years.

If she decides to leave, and I truly hope that she does, she would be easily accepted by a shelter for abused women and children. She would easily gain a full custody order and she would be entitled to child maintenance and spousal support. There is NOTHING that JB could do about it other than attempt to bribe a corrupt family court judge and I don't think that any judge would dare no matter how corrupt s/he may be.

A case could EASILY be made that the Duggars are unfit to have access to Anna's children just based on the shit that comes out of their mouths when they speak to the media.

The only thing holding Anna back is Anna--and perhaps the emotional abuse and manipulation that she is suffering is clouding her judgement. Hopefully her parents have seen the light and can help her.

And if she does decide to leave---again Josh and JB can do nothing about it.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Of course I need an accountability chaperone! Every decent, honorable, good person does. Boob and Mullet would agree. :mrgreen: The best part would be, I wouldn't make you, or even allow you to, fulfill your duties! Sipping mai tais on the beach and defrauding every man around? No problem...in fact, I would strongly encourage it!

Yep. You definitely need an accountability partner. Possibly 4 or 5. And some time in the prayer closet.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

That sounds like a post count.

Ew not one I want.

[amster]

The only thing occasionally wiping the shit-eating grin off my face since I heard this news is the thought of poor Anna.

But still, Josh is a douchebag and it's very satisfying seeing his get all he deserves.

I hope Anna can find the strength to leave him.

[isarhenne]

I am really surprised, didn't expect this.

I thought maybe Josh watches porn secretly at home or is flirting with some coworkers, but not this.

OMG poor Anna and the Mkids.

How many women and girls is Josh going to hurt? First the (at least) 5 vicitims of his molestation, now Anna.

At this stage now it's only a matter of time that one or several of the Jkids or Amy, or Grandma Mary starts speaking out.

Josh has the audacity to talk sh** about his lesbian aunt but does all this and everybody in his family forgives him. I'm sure we will see Anna next in an interview saying "Oh, it was just a mistake, all is forgiven, God has forgiven him, he is such a good man" :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr: :rawr:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

So if Joshgate was the lesbian agenda, is Joshgate the Sequel the gay agenda? Or have we moved on to the bi/pan/ace agendas? :think:

Don't forget the trans agenda.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm sure he dresses a bit differently on his "dates." I wouldn't recognize him, either.

Omg. I would just lose it if a guy showed up like that for a date. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing.

But, it could make for some really fun stories later.

[YoshiCat]

I would pay real money do be a fly on the wall in the TTH for this one. I don't think they knew this was coming or they would have had a statement prepared, would have blocked the posting on their FB page right away, etc. I wonder if DQ still uses the baby voice when she's truly furious. I keep imagining hearing her yell at Josh in that baby voice and laughing. How could she ever seen serious?

What will this mean for the older kids still living at the TTH? Will they lose what little Internet access they have? Will the girls lose their iPhones since they can use them to access the internet?

Doesn't ATI/IBPL say that when anything even vaguely sexual happens, the parents should clamp down even tighter on the moral purity rules? Or is that only if the offender lives in the house?

This does not speak well of the "counseling" that Josh got after molesting his sisters. Will it possibly occur to Jim Boob and J'chelle that maybe they didn't handle that so perfectly after all? Or that they have no business even thinking about counseling anyone, let alone victims of sexual abuse?

They always talk about how great their courting/no touching/accountabilibuddy system is. It just guarantees that there will never be the slightest bit of sexual sin, not for them. Keep the kids slaving away all day so they don't have time/energy to have wayward sexual thoughts. Will the two of them even consider that this doesn't work and that it's normal and natural to have sexual feelings and desires even if you aren't married?

Some posters have mentioned sex addiction. I'm no expert, but this doesn't seem like sex addiction to me. This seems like Josh desperately trying to have the life he should have had as a teenager/20-something. Dating, spending time with different types of women, actual touching in a sexual way, learning what you want from a spouse, etc.

The answers to profile questions people have posted certainly make it seem like his sex life with Anna isn't that great. Is "having a great sex life" a requirement the way "being happy" is? It seems like it would be. Fundies always seem to think their sex is better than the sex we heathens have, because their virgin-until-married married sex is better than any sex had by people who had sex before they married. I've read several stories/essays from fundies about how they're SO GLAD they waited until they were married because SEX IS SO AWESOME :cracking-up: but they wouldn't be having such good sex if they'd had sex before marriage.

And last but not least: might this give any of the older unmarried kids the push they need to break away? It exposes so many flaws with the way they we'd raised, might they see some of those flaws now? And going to college, moving out, forging some independence---those would all be pretty minor compared with what Josh has done.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I would pay real money do be a fly on the wall in the TTH for this one. I don't think they knew this was coming or they would have had a statement prepared, would have blocked the posting on their FB page right away, etc. I wonder if DQ still uses the baby voice when she's truly furious. I keep imagining hearing her yell at Josh in that baby voice and laughing. How could she ever seen serious?

What will this mean for the older kids still living at the TTH? Will they lose what little Internet access they have? Will the girls lose their iPhones since they can use them to access the internet?

Doesn't ATI/IBPL say that when anything even vaguely sexual happens, the parents should clamp down even tighter on the moral purity rules? Or is that only if the offender lives in the house?

This does not speak well of the "counseling" that Josh got after molesting his sisters. Will it possibly occur to Jim Boob and J'chelle that maybe they didn't handle that so perfectly after all? Or that they have no business even thinking about counseling anyone, let alone victims of sexual abuse?

They always talk about how great their courting/no touching/accountabilibuddy system is. It just guarantees that there will never be the slightest bit of sexual sin, not for them. Keep the kids slaving away all day so they don't have time/energy to have wayward sexual thoughts. Will the two of them even consider that this doesn't work and that it's normal and natural to have sexual feelings and desires even if you aren't married?

Some posters have mentioned sex addiction. I'm no expert, but this doesn't seem like sex addiction to me. This seems like Josh desperately trying to have the life he should have had as a teenager/20-something. Dating, spending time with different types of women, actual touching in a sexual way, learning what you want from a spouse, etc.

The answers to profile questions people have posted certainly make it seem like his sex life with Anna isn't that great. Is "having a great sex life" a requirement the way "being happy" is? It seems like it would be. Fundies always seem to think their sex is better than the sex we heathens have, because their virgin-until-married married sex is better than any sex had by people who had sex before they married. I've read several stories/essays from fundies about how they're SO GLAD they waited until they were married because SEX IS SO AWESOME :cracking-up: but they wouldn't be having such good sex if they'd had sex before marriage.

And last but not least: might this give any of the older unmarried kids the push they need to break away? It exposes so many flaws with the way they we'd raised, might they see some of those flaws now? And going to college, moving out, forging some independence---those would all be pretty minor compared with what Josh has done.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure I'd be scared for my life if someone was yelling at me in a baby voice. That's down right terrifying to even think about. No thank you.

They'll never think it's their fault. They don't even think molesting his sisters was josh's fault. They'll deny it till their last breath. It's always going to be someone else's fault. Most likely, it'll be Anna's fault.

[YoshiCat]

A lot of people are posting variations of how Anna is trapped and can't get away for some reason.

JB and M have NO CHOICE if Anna leaves and sues for divorce.

No court would EVER take custody away from Anna and give it to JB and M. It would not happen in a million years.

If she decides to leave, and I truly hope that she does, she would be easily accepted by a shelter for abused women and children. She would easily gain a full custody order and she would be entitled to child maintenance and spousal support. There is NOTHING that JB could do about it other than attempt to bribe a corrupt family court judge and I don't think that any judge would dare no matter how corrupt s/he may be.

A case could EASILY be made that the Duggars are unfit to have access to Anna's children just based on the shit that comes out of their mouths when they speak to the media.

The only thing holding Anna back is Anna--and perhaps the emotional abuse and manipulation that she is suffering is clouding her judgement. Hopefully her parents have seen the light and can help her.

And if she does decide to leave---again Josh and JB can do nothing about it.

Anna actually does have quite a bit of leverage here. The question is: does she realize that? Will she use it?

She controls access to the grandchildren. Any hint that she might start to talk publicly will get Jim Boob wallet open.

And given that they viewed the TV show as their ministry and belive god wants them on television, I bet they still think they're going to get some sort of TV show again. They need Anna to play along, stay with Josh (at least live in the same house) and act happy if they're going to be on TV saying they know the best way to live and have all the answers. They can't do that if it unless it seems like Josh and Anna are living happily ever after.

[Sundaymorning]

Anna actually does have quite a bit of leverage here. The question is: does she realize that? Will she use it?

She controls access to the grandchildren. Any hint that she might start to talk publicly will get Jim Boob wallet open.

And given that they viewed the TV show as their ministry and belive god wants them on television, I bet they still think they're going to get some sort of TV show again. They need Anna to play along, stay with Josh (at least live in the same house) and act happy if they're going to be on TV saying they know the best way to live and have all the answers. They can't do that if it unless it seems like Josh and Anna are living happily ever after.

Anna does have a lot of leverage. So do basically all the other Duggar kids over 18 or even 16. Even Josh could decide to reveal all he knows, and I think that wouldn't be pretty. Boob, J'chelle and IBLP in general would be pretty screwed.

But that is one of the characteristics of cult-brainwashing: people don't even realize that they would have a way out.

[DeFrauder]

Maybe that's the way the Duggars can spin this:

"It's just come to the attention of the rest of our family, but Josh and Anna have been involved in an 'open marriage' for the past few years. While we don't condone this type of behavior, both parties are consensual and were fully informed of their partner's behaviors."

LOL this will never be their spin. NEVER. I mean it would be hilarious and awesome---but nope. :-P

[HuggleMonster]

Anna actually does have quite a bit of leverage here. The question is: does she realize that? Will she use it?

She controls access to the grandchildren. Any hint that she might start to talk publicly will get Jim Boob wallet open.

And given that they viewed the TV show as their ministry and belive god wants them on television, I bet they still think they're going to get some sort of TV show again. They need Anna to play along, stay with Josh (at least live in the same house) and act happy if they're going to be on TV saying they know the best way to live and have all the answers. They can't do that if it unless it seems like Josh and Anna are living happily ever after.

She won't leave. She married him when she knew about what he did to his sisters. That's infinitely worse than this. They'll pray and say it brought them closer to each other and God.

[DeFrauder]

As much as I'm entertained by holier-than-thous getting their karmic payback, I really do worry about his mind state right now. Not saying suicide would happen, but it (or Anna going all Andrea Yates) is still a possibility.

I'm also wondering if there's a Madonna/whore thing going on. As innocent as some of his "wants" are, maybe other ~darker~ things would come up later and he doesn't want to "sully" Anna that way?

(or he wants someone to hold him while he cries and she tells him what to do.)

OMG do not invoke whatever demon afflicted Andrea Yates.

As gleeful as most of us feel---these issues are not funny. The more pressure the Duggars feel the higher the chance of tragedy--no matter what form that tragedy might take.

I hope that Anna's family is on their way to pick her up. A nice rest with her parents is the best thing for her. The entire family--but especially Anna needs crisis counselling asap. Tonight even.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

OMG do not invoke whatever demon afflicted Andrea Yates.

As gleeful as most of us feel---these issues are not funny. The more pressure the Duggars feel the higher the chance of tragedy--no matter what form that tragedy might take.

I hope that Anna's family is on their way to pick her up. A nice rest with her parents is the best thing for her. The entire family--but especially Anna needs crisis counselling asap. Tonight even.

Okay I agree with you up to the last paragraph. Anna's parents practically horse traded her to a known child molester/sexual predator like she was a piece of chattle. A "nice rest" with subhumans like that...does not exist. Her psycho parents would probably counsel her to look at ways she could have been more enticing or available to her husband and kept him from straying. She needs to be as far away from these nutbags as possible. And that's assuming they're just your average garden variety level ATI family...Pops Keller gives me an exceedingly creepy vibe and I'm hugely suspicious of any father who would willingly marry off his daughter while overlooking the stuff he had to overlook with the Duggars. Not to mention his other daughters haven't fared much better in the husband department...

Yeah...no. Run Anna. Run far away. I'm guessing there are a lot of people who would help you if you reached out...change your life and give your kids something better, girl!

[Adrienne83]

I doubt anyone ever gets prosecuted for adultery though. I'm not going to hold that against him as if it is illegal. I'll hold it against him because it's revolting. But to me, it's not a crime.

From the article:

I can't imagine how much it hurts to read that your husband and father of your young children advertised himself as wanting this with someone else. Part of me hopes Anna had her own account and they just have some kind of fundie open relationship. Though I know it isn't likely :)

Around where I live someone was actually prosecuted for adultery. It can defiantly happen.

[Sundaymorning]

As of right now, the Duggar supporters are pretty quiet on their official fb account, while many, many people are calling the Duggars out. I wonder how long it takes until their comments get deleted.

[DifferentGurl]

I was already having a really good day but it went from a 9/10 to a 12/10 when I read about the Josh leak.

Eww. Josh leak.

The list of his interests bored me. Bubble bath? Cuddling? I guess his already vanilla sex life needed more... vanilla? Where are the requests for swingers parties? Orgies? A budding interest in being spanked?

DildoJosh paid to find someone to enjoy the kind of gentle, happy sex you can have with a spouse when you respect and care for another. The kind of sweet relationship when you come home after work in a cheerful mood, treating your family members with joy, listening about their day with honest interest, and delightfully taking an active role in getting your children ready for bedtime. The sort of thing that makes your partner want to revel in all the naked hanky panky he listed as preferences.

But, pfft, what do I know?

Seriously, thank god he only stuck to the vanilla stuff. I don't want to think about him getting spank....

:brain-bleach: :brain-bleach: :brain-bleach: :brain-bleach:

[TurtleBelly]

That it was all for "research" for FRC despite the accounts predating his tenure there? That is the only excuse I can think of.

If the FRC truly wanted an employee to go on AM for "research," wouldn't they foot the bill and put it on a corporate credit card? They wouldn't have their employee pay almost $1000 on their own credit card, right? I don't actually believe the "research" theory is plausible, and I don't think anyone else would buy it. It would be truly funny if they tried to spin it that way, though. :lol:

[DeFrauder]

Okay I agree with you up to the last paragraph. Anna's parents practically horse traded her to a known child molester/sexual predator like she was a piece of chattle. A "nice rest" with subhumans like that...does not exist. Her psycho parents would probably counsel her to look at ways she could have been more enticing or available to her husband and kept him from straying. She needs to be as far away from these nutbags as possible. And that's assuming they're just your average garden variety level ATI family...Pops Keller gives me an exceedingly creepy vibe and I'm hugely suspicious of any father who would willingly marry off his daughter while overlooking the stuff he had to overlook with the Duggars. Not to mention his other daughters haven't fared much better in the husband department...

Yeah...no. Run Anna. Run far away. I'm guessing there are a lot of people who would help you if you reached out...change your life and give your kids something better, girl!

Maybe, maybe not. She has some family members that are not fundies, as well.

Her parents obviously made a mistake---but we don't know that their response would be to blame her. Except for that molestation bit, Josh looked really good on paper (to a Fundie) up until the bombshell.

We do not even know for sure if Anna and her parents were told the WHOLE story about the molestation. I would bet money they found out who the victims were the same day that we did.

For all we know it went like this:

Josh: Before we consider courting I want you and your father to know something. When I was a young teen I had some sexual contact with girls. It was just some mild, inappropriate touching, over the clothes, and just for a few moments. Not only did I fail God and my family, but I took something from those girls that they will never get back. It was wrong of me. What I did wasn't right, but that was because I wasn't right with Jesus. I prayed a lot. My family helped me and then Jesus touched my heart. I fully repented and asked all the girls I had been sexually involved with to forgive me. Jesus must have softened their hearts, too, because each of them forgave me for how I had taken advantage of them. Now, I am a new creature in Christ, having dedicated myself fully to God's plan for my life. I am fully committed to abstaining from any sexual contact until it can be righteously performed within the boundaries of Christian Marriage. Now I ask of you, Anna, would YOU be able to forgive me for my past indiscretions?

You see what happened there??? Nothing said was a lie, but it wasn't exactly the truth, either.

That is how you manipulate a young Fundie girl who has been deluded into thinking that God has a specific partner in mind for her. In one quiet paragraph of bullshit, Josh not only validated their belief system as a transformative cure all for sin, but was a manifestation of that transformative power. Then the tables were turned so that she too could display her submission to God's will. I bet she swooned--if it happened that way.

Or it may have happened the way you have suggested and she was nothing more than chattel to her father and neither of them cared about her future husband being a serial child molester and incestuous to boot.

[cardigangirl222]

Did Anna's sisters marry creeps too? I had no idea, only seen one of her sisters husbands that was on an episode of 19kids. What did they do?

[zadie]

Okay I agree with you up to the last paragraph. Anna's parents practically horse traded her to a known child molester/sexual predator like she was a piece of chattle. A "nice rest" with subhumans like that...does not exist. Her psycho parents would probably counsel her to look at ways she could have been more enticing or available to her husband and kept him from straying. She needs to be as far away from these nutbags as possible. And that's assuming they're just your average garden variety level ATI family...Pops Keller gives me an exceedingly creepy vibe and I'm hugely suspicious of any father who would willingly marry off his daughter while overlooking the stuff he had to overlook with the Duggars. Not to mention his other daughters haven't fared much better in the husband department...

Yeah...no. Run Anna. Run far away. I'm guessing there are a lot of people who would help you if you reached out...change your life and give your kids something better, girl!

So I've heard some things about the Maxwells but I've never looked into them. I know they're obsessed with fitness though. Does anyone who knows them better know if Their reaction would be "see this is why you're supposed to stay in shape"?

These people are sick.

[Lillybee]

I really feel sorry for Anna because she seems to have bought into this fundie shit. She was the perfect fundie wife and for this to happen should be destroying her world view. I don't believe for a minute that she had a clue about Josh molesting his sisters before their marriage. I think that she was forced to tow the company line after the article in INTOUCH came out. This latest revelation must be cutting to the core of her life beliefs. I doubt that she will get any support from her parental units since they seem to be OK with what John Schraeder is doing to Esther.