The Infamous Maxwell Pizza Incident

[Miranda]

I've heard about this before... what year, do you know??

It was posted May 1, 2005 by Steve.

This is the first portion.

Mary was having such discomfort from her teeth that she was only eating soft food due to the new palate separator that had recently been “installed†across the roof of her mouth. The orthodontist told us that it would not hurt her at all, so we decided she ought to be taken back to have it checked.

The orthodontist affirmed that the appliance appeared normal. One option offered was to remove the palate separator for a while and then reinstall it. The other option would be to stop turning it for a week and then slow down the daily adjustments from a full turn to a half turn. Teri thought about the choices. She said she preferred the break from turning and trying to adjust it more slowly than to go through the removal and reinstallation of the appliance.

To Teri’s surprise, the orthodontist turned to Mary and asked her what she would like to do. Mary said she wanted to do whatever her mommy thought best. Compounding Teri’s surprise, the orthodontist continued, “But, Mary, it is your mouth. What do you want to do?†However, she never paused long enough for Mary’s answer nor for Teri to help her understand Biblical authority or even the laws of the state regarding the care of a minor. She went on to agree with leaving the appliance in and adjusting it more slowly.

What the orthodontist said was true. It is Mary’s mouth. Most adults would quickly realize, though, how absurd it would be to expect an eight-year-old child to have the wisdom necessary to make this kind of decision. Even Mary knew she was ill-prepared to make the choice on her own, and that is why she deferred to her mommy.

Imagine for a minute what it would be like in your home if instead of teaching your young children to listen to your direction and instruction, you encouraged them that they were their own person. They should make their own decisions as long as they abide by the law. Think about the havoc it would wreck on their lives and your home.

Imagine that, teaching your children that they're their own person!

[mango_fandango]

The Creation Museum

blog.titus2.com/2007/10/04/men-of-vision-creation-science-museum/

The orthodontist

articles.titus2.com/whose-mouth-is-it/

I swear, I'm not as stalkery as I seem. I'm just morbidly fascinated by this family and I remember stuff.

ETA Another fave of mine, from their trip to Carlsbad Caverns

Oh good God. That orthodontist article is apeshit. I wonder what Steve would think of Summerhill School. It's a school here in the UK that does not have compulsory lessons. Lessons are available, but pupils are not bound to go to them. If there's an issue they want to solve, they solve it themselves. Its very philosophy is that pupils learn best without coercion. Funnily enough, kids actually do show up for lessons. If they want to learn, they will. They're learning things because they want to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School (not breaking the link cos it's Wikipedia)

Actually, I know full well what Steve would think of Summerhill....

[tulip]

I'm keeping up with all these posts and want to contribute something worthwhile to this conversation, but all I can do is shake my head. These people. :cray-cray:

I am impressed that they properly used "whose" instead of "who's" in the orthodontics article, though.

[mango_fandango]

For examples of women being doormats...

articles.titus2.com/loving-your-husband/

Men are apparently helpless wimps who can't even pick out their own clothes and who can't get their own drink of water, and yet THEY'RE supposed to be the heads of the household?? Good grief!

[Peas n carrots]

Interesting how Teri and I have approached this kind of situation in similar ways but with vastly different justifications!

I used to have a colleague who would constantly pester other co-workers asking the if they have done XYZ thing and remind them to do it. She would usually pester me to pester said co-workers - when I was new I would follow her lead, but I was soon irritated by this behavior - it was as if she didn't trust her co-workers to get the job done. Sometimes you do have to get status update but acting like someone's mother reminding them to brush their teeth isn't how you treat other adults.

So yes I do get that sometimes you have to let go and trust the other person to do the job. But the difference is Teri has to use patriarchal biblical psycho-babble to justify the exact same reason I have for not being a nag.

[DowntownAbbey]

It was posted May 1, 2005 by Steve.

This is the first portion.

Imagine that, teaching your children that they're their own person!

I could go on another rant but I think this will suffice: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: ad infinitum

[FundieFarmer]

That orthodontist was absolutely right in including Mary in the discussion. In my experience, good pediatric care teams make an effort to engage children in their care. Sure, Mary may make the wrong decision....but that becomes a learning opportunity as the physician says, "Well, here's why we should do this..."

[Trynn]

Right, and it's not like he's asking her opinion on a life or death matter.... Or vaccines. (As a child I told mom I'd rather have tetanus because that shot is so painful.)

I'm glad now she didn't listen to me.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I saw this one the other day. Sure, baby girls can learn to do a modified crawl because they need to wear dresses because modesty!

blog.titus2.com/2008/10/14/crawling-while-wearing-a-dress-absolutely/

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Somehow I never saw that Melanie had PP Depression :( This is after she had Abigail:

I never could have guessed what an adjustment there is to being a mother. The first few weeks were so very hard; exhaustion, physical pain, and then the added challenge of postpartum depression. I’ve never felt so low in my life.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Regarding Christian movies and such, Steve has the following opinions about such things:

For example, can you be a Christian and give your kids Easter baskets?

Christianity is not a democracy, and if millions of “devout†Christians exercise their faith in a particular way, it doesn’t necessarily make it pleasing to the Lord. Living one’s life according to the Bible should be every professing Christian’s desire and practice. I do understand that many churches have bunnies and baskets to perhaps reach the lost. Each person/church’s conduct/choices are between them and the Lord.

Have you ever tried to look at two things at once? If they are any distance apart, you really have to choose to look at one or the other. Bunnies, baskets, and the Lord Jesus are light years apart — there’s no biblical support, not even a natural tie-in or segue between them. Generally, I’ve found the more desirable something is to the flesh, the more likely it will be the one that wins. Give children the choice of bunnies and baskets versus Jesus, and I can guarantee you what most children will choose to anticipate and remember — the morning discussion of Christ’s resurrection or the fun candy filled egg hunt outside? When they get older will they make the right choice? Hopefully, but why set up our children to be double-minded? “Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.†(James 4:8)

Next, if a Christian’s walk is determined by only things that aren’t wrong, they are missing much that fills a walk that is pleasing to the Lord. They really aren’t seeking God’s best, just avoiding outright sin. Would you rather have a child who just didn’t disobey (according to their definition of disobedience), or one who truly wanted to please you? From my observations, many “Christians†spend empty lives doing things they consider not sin, while missing a fruitful life that is dedicated to following the Lord.

[DowntownAbbey]

I don't know which form of holier-than-thou Christians I find less objectionable. The Maxwellian absolute sin approach in which something is wrong period, dot, end of story if God's told Stevehovah or the "Well, God laid it on my heart that xyz is wrong, but if he hasn't laid it on yours, that's ok...I guess..."

[Cartmann99]

Nope. Can't remember the exact words, but at the seminar I went to, Steve said that Christian movies take you away from the Lord or something. Basically, if it's not the Bible, it's a no-no.

What if someone approached them and said they would like to turn the Moody books into movies? If an arrangement was made so that the scripts were word for word from the books, would the Maxwells make an exception about watching television? :think:

[mango_fandango]

Regarding Christian movies and such, Steve has the following opinions about such things:

For example, can you be a Christian and give your kids Easter baskets?

Yes there is, Steve. Ever heard of the phrase "breed like rabbits"? Bunnies breed often and produce a lot of young. Hence they are a symbol of fertility and new life. If Jesus died and was resurrected, isn't that (kind of) new life? Not entirely sure about the basket bit- but it sounds nicer to have treats brought in a basket where you can display them nicely and see them properly rather than dump them in a backpack.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Yes there is, Steve. Ever heard of the phrase "breed like rabbits"? Bunnies breed often and produce a lot of young. Hence they are a symbol of fertility and new life. If Jesus died and was resurrected, isn't that (kind of) new life? Not entirely sure about the basket bit- but it sounds nicer to have treats brought in a basket where you can display them nicely and see them properly rather than dump them in a backpack.

Wanna know why bunnies and baskets and Jesus are light years apart, Steve? Because Easter isn't christian. :dance:

[mango_fandango]

Wanna know why bunnies and baskets and Jesus are light years apart, Steve? Because Easter isn't christian. :dance:

And neither is Christmas. :D As usual, Christians have taken over to make it all about them.

[VodouDoll]

Wanna know why bunnies and baskets and Jesus are light years apart, Steve? Because Easter isn't christian. :dance:

Which is why he calls it Resurrection Sunday and only uses the word Easter when he's showing his contempt for fun.

[nausicaa]

Yes, the Maxwell Family has all the necessary ingredients for a suburban horror story. :character-jason:

I would argue the Maxwell Family already is a suburban horror story.

[sparkles]

I would argue the Maxwell Family already is a suburban horror story.

For some reason, the movie "Parents," directed by Steve's doppelganger Bob Balaban, always makes me think of the Maxwells. Not the whole cannibalism thing, but just the idea of a seemingly normal, suburban family that's harboring a deep dark secret. I'm definitely of the opinion that there's a lot more the Maxwells than what they let you see and not in a good way, especially given that what you DO see is already rather disturbing.

[salex]

And let's not forget the aftermath of Nathan and Melanie's wedding!

Wow. I mean, really, wow. I am thinking of my great grandmother who left Sweden alone at 16 to come to the USA in the 1880-1890 time frame, where there were no phones and letters may have been hit or miss. Moving across the street traumatized these people, can you imagine if one of them moved across town!

[halcionne]

Ask and you shall receive!

Source: forums.preparingdaughters.com/forums/t/3352/

This is also the no contrasting buttons post. That rule was tossed for some reason when Mary hit her teens. The conversations Teri recounts where Sarah trashes the other girls at church behind their backs for not dressing like the Maxwells reads to me like Sarah was just desperate for her mother's approval and sucking up.

Eye traps are straight out of Gothard. Have the Maxwells ever said they were ATI? I feel like this confirms it...

[sparkles]

Eye traps are straight out of Gothard. Have the Maxwells ever said they were ATI? I feel like this confirms it...

I don't know if they were ATI, but they did use their materials. If you read further down to the next post, Teri specifically references one of their books for their modesty lessons.

The pictures and descriptions of eye traps I mentioned studying in the other post were from IBLPs Advanced Seminar Textbook page 276 281. I cant go into detail on this because it is copyrighted material.

[nausicaa]

This recounting of the Maxwell's greatest hits really is driving home, yet again, just how insane this family is.

Also, does anyone know when exactly they stopped attending a church and began home churching? Did they announce this on their blog or give reasons?

[sparkles]

This recounting of the Maxwell's greatest hits really is driving home, yet again, just how insane this family is.

Also, does anyone know when exactly they stopped attending a church and began home churching? Did they announce this on their blog or give reasons?

I haven't (yet) found a specific post about why they stopped attending a regular church, but did find this. I thought it was around the early Naughties that they went this route.

Families for Jesus Fellowship

A Multi-Generational Family Integrated Church

In September of 2002 we began a church in an elderly care center along with one other family. Our church is currently being held in a retirement apartment complex with those who live there and several other families..

Our family agrees that this is truly the best church experience we've ever had. It's a blessing to minister to the elderly, to be able to bring “church†to them, and to enjoy worship and fellowship with other like-minded families.

The service lasts about an hour. We have hymn singing, prayer, and then preaching. We would love to have your family join us! If you're driving from Kansas City, depending on your exact location, it would probably be a 30-60 minute drive.

Twin Oaks Christian Fellowship starts promptly at 9:30 a.m so please arrive early.

We meet at the retirement apartments section (there is also an assisted living and nursing facility) of the Twin Oaks Retirement Community in Lansing, KS. The address is: 657 W Eisenhower Rd Lansing, KS 66043, If you need directions or more information, please feel free to contact Steve, steve@titus2.com or 913-772-0392.

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

[Wingnut]

Wow. I do not have 1 piece of clothing that would fit her modesty rules. Oh well....