New DHS Probe

[Ella]

What do you think they have told the kids younger than Joy Anna?

[Mama Mia]

Is it just me? I find the wording of the 911 call really...odd. Unless it was the Social Workers first day - this sounds weird:

, “We have an investigation and I guess they’re not being cooperative. We have to see the child to make sure the child is all right. So we just need police assistance"

I don't know, not trying to start some conspiracy theory. It's just strange. :?

[Alyciabaleesha]

Is it just me? I find the wording of the 911 call really...odd. Unless it was the Social Workers first day - this sounds weird:

, “We have an investigation and I guess they’re not being cooperative. We have to see the child to make sure the child is all right. So we just need police assistance"

I don't know, not trying to start some conspiracy theory. It's just strange. :?

I think it sounds like they're being very careful to keep things as broad, general, and routine as possible, perhaps because they know that they're dealing with a high-profile family. YMMV, of course.

[mrs]

If the police had to come out to help DHS, would there be a police report? I am sure In Touch will attempt to obtain it if possible.

[goldfishgoddess]

I think it's more likely that the Josh story breaking might have loosened up some memories for someone about what one of the kids told them in the house. I don't think a local person is going to make a fake report just to hassle the Duggars. They'd have to have a connection to the family or some sort of knowledge for the DHS to come knocking. J'Chelle must have utterly freaked when DHS came... you know.. more conspiracies against the Duggars...or maybe Boob wasn't home and she didn't want to face questioning on her own.

I also think it's not right to name new suspected victims by name.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Is it just me? I find the wording of the 911 call really...odd. Unless it was the Social Workers first day - this sounds weird:

, “We have an investigation and I guess they’re not being cooperative. We have to see the child to make sure the child is all right. So we just need police assistance"

I don't know, not trying to start some conspiracy theory. It's just strange. :?

I think its weird that they called 911. You would think that this sort of thing happens fairly regularly and the social workers should all have a direct line to the police. Maybe Tonitown (or whatever county) only has a small number of investigations and CPS doesn't have a rigid protocol but allows the social worker in question to handle the situation as they see fit. Or maybe standard protocol is "Call 911 but keep the details as vague as possible to protect the minor's privacy."

[Mama Mia]

I think its weird that they called 911. You would think that this sort of thing happens fairly regularly and the social workers should all have a direct line to the police. Maybe Tonitown (or whatever county) only has a small number of investigations and CPS doesn't have a rigid protocol but allows the social worker in question to handle the situation as they see fit. Or maybe standard protocol is "Call 911 but keep the details as vague as possible to protect the minor's privacy."

Yea, it's the combination of calling 911 , and the wording that is just off to me . I iagree that generally they would call a direct line. Or, even more likely, be accompanied by police in the first place, but maybe that varies by area. Also the " and I guess they're not being cooperative" just sounds --- stilted? Unsure? I don't know, I can't really place my finger on it. It just sounds more like how someone would call in a report if they had never been in that circumstance before -- but it would be a very, very common situation in daily life for a Social Worker. I can't imagine they would send some rookie out -- maybe because it's so high profile they sent some higher ranking administrator without much field experience? Sorry, I'll stop now. Just weird.

[lascuba]

I also thought calling 911 instead of having a direct line to call for these situations was weird, but I chalked it up to location. If social workers aren't all that busy and don't often have issues with cooperation, maybe 911 is all they know to do? That could also explain why the worker sounded so unsure on the phone--they hadn't encountered this situation before.

[December]

I really hope that if this new investigation brings up any additional evidence of wrongdoing and/or abuse in the Duggar household, that the family isn't allowed to misuse their fame or religious beliefs to deter further legitimate investigation by law enforcement.

How long does an investigation like this one go on? I'm still unclear from the rest of the thread + the news articles.

[goldfishgoddess]

I worked for Child Services in a large county. Here is what usually happens.. they are able to go see the kid at school out of the family circumstance so that the child doesn't feel pressured. Also interviews are set up by phone with parents and siblings who can give information, usually in a home setting. In many homes, the parents are not home during the day.

The fact DHS just showed up without calling, and then possibly a police escort to gain access to the child.... Whew! Part of it might be due to the fact the kids don't go to school so they are not accessible to DHS like most kids are. But the fact there was no phone call appointment first leads me to think it must be a serious accusation?

If TLC was thinking of doing some kind of patched up show with the family, or a spin off, this has to be the final straw. If even one parent was home, he or she should have given access to the child and put an end to the inquiry. If neither parent was home, then they should have been called back while DHS was waiting. It sounds to me like a parent was home and denied access, without any willingness to reschedule. If the concern was serious enough then I could see why they'd call the police for escort.

It's not fun when DHS comes knocking, but what most people do is cooperate and provide information to address concerns so the accusation can be dismissed. Not giving access makes them seem guilty of something, which is a bad idea right now!

[ILoveJellybeans]

"Every time fundies mention CPS, they say to refuse entry and call HSLDA/get a lawyer."

Every time. Is it a thing for fundies to feel or actually be threatened by CPS? Are they commonly in trouble with them?

They have reason to worry. Child abuse is very rampant in their culture, it is encouraged. If CPS knew what passes for discipline in those families, they would remove the kids. Even in states where spanking with an object is legal, the Pearls and a lot of fundies advocate hitting small babies with switches, glue sticks or rulers. There is even a part of To Train Up A Child where Michael Pearl talks about the best instruments for spanking, including what to use for a baby under a year old.

Also there are other things, like that some of them are not meeting their children's needs. Children who eat tiny amounts of food that aren't going to keep them healthy, because their parents are so poor they cannot afford to feed them properly, they could feed their kids if they got food stamps, or if the kids went to school and the mother worked too, but they refuse to do that. Parents who have so many kids that they cannot care for them all, and neglect them, and have 10 year olds raising babies. Families who live in cramped conditions where the kids don't even have beds, or are in horribly unsafe environments. Kids who are not getting their educational needs met because their parents say they are homeschooling, but they are so overwhelmed by pregnancy and a baby every other year that the kids are not getting actual work done and are falling far behind.

[goldfishgoddess]

How long does an investigation like this one go on? I'm still unclear from the rest of the thread + the news articles.

The DHS will interview the child (alone) as well as parents and siblings. If there is a professional connected to the case (such as if a doctor reported injuries) then that person would be interviewed.

When all the interviews are complete, a determination will take place and then suggested course of action would be counseling, therapy, taking the child out of the house, etc. all depending on the results.

Usually for the welfare of the child, it's done quickly and within a couple weeks.

[HarleyQuinn]

Maybe Boob and J'chelle in all their bitching said one of their kids was having suicial thoughts or something over the police report being leaked? I could see them trying to be dramatic, then having it bite them in the ass like this.

[VelociRapture]

Maybe Boob and J'chelle in all their bitching said one of their kids was having suicial thoughts or something over the police report being leaked? I could see them trying to be dramatic, then having it bite them in the ass like this.

Silly poster - everyone knows that the Duggars don't struggle with things like mental illness or depression. That's only for us Godless heathens! :angry-banghead:

[laundry]

I worked for Child Services in a large county. Here is what usually happens.. they are able to go see the kid at school out of the family circumstance so that the child doesn't feel pressured. Also interviews are set up by phone with parents and siblings who can give information, usually in a home setting. In many homes, the parents are not home during the day.

The fact DHS just showed up without calling, and then possibly a police escort to gain access to the child.... Whew! Part of it might be due to the fact the kids don't go to school so they are not accessible to DHS like most kids are. But the fact there was no phone call appointment first leads me to think it must be a serious accusation?

If TLC was thinking of doing some kind of patched up show with the family, or a spin off, this has to be the final straw. If even one parent was home, he or she should have given access to the child and put an end to the inquiry. If neither parent was home, then they should have been called back while DHS was waiting. It sounds to me like a parent was home and denied access, without any willingness to reschedule. If the concern was serious enough then I could see why they'd call the police for escort.

It's not fun when DHS comes knocking, but what most people do is cooperate and provide information to address concerns so the accusation can be dismissed. Not giving access makes them seem guilty of something, which is a bad idea right now!

Is it possible for others to know if it was no phone call? I wonder because if they tried to call the Duggars they would not likely be "allowed" by Jim Bob to come anyway. So then the DHS had to go there without an appoitment?

[December]

The DHS will interview the child (alone) as well as parents and siblings. If there is a professional connected to the case (such as if a doctor reported injuries) then that person would be interviewed.

When all the interviews are complete, a determination will take place and then suggested course of action would be counseling, therapy, taking the child out of the house, etc. all depending on the results.

Usually for the welfare of the child, it's done quickly and within a couple weeks.

So if this DHS incident happened weeks ago, it could theoretically be over with already? Or since they didn't cooperate, it might still have yet to happen?

Those poor kids and young adults. I hope this investigation means someone is watching out for them. :(

[goldfishgoddess]

So if this DHS incident happened weeks ago, it could theoretically be over with already? Or since they didn't cooperate, it might still have yet to happen?

Those poor kids and young adults. I hope this investigation means someone is watching out for them. :(

If the Duggars won't allow access to a child, DHS can get it via the police. I'm hoping the investigation will be over soon, and yes... it means someone has been watching and felt it was right to call in a report. Wish I could be a fly on the wall and know what the outcome was. Let's face it, having nearly ten times the average amount of children just doesn't work. Now Jill and Jessa are gone, I bet there is a lot of stress on the older kids to keep up with parenting chores.

J'Chelle and Boob are probably in a huddle most of the time trying to swim through the Josh fiasco. Bet it's not a very happy place right now without the cameras and crew around.

[DuggarWatch]

Those poor kids and young adults. I hope this investigation means someone is watching out for them. :(

Their parents are watching out for them, and so are a bunch of lawyers. :pink-shock:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I worked for Child Services in a large county. Here is what usually happens.. they are able to go see the kid at school out of the family circumstance so that the child doesn't feel pressured. Also interviews are set up by phone with parents and siblings who can give information, usually in a home setting. In many homes, the parents are not home during the day.

The fact DHS just showed up without calling, and then possibly a police escort to gain access to the child.... Whew! Part of it might be due to the fact the kids don't go to school so they are not accessible to DHS like most kids are. But the fact there was no phone call appointment first leads me to think it must be a serious accusation?

If TLC was thinking of doing some kind of patched up show with the family, or a spin off, this has to be the final straw. If even one parent was home, he or she should have given access to the child and put an end to the inquiry. If neither parent was home, then they should have been called back while DHS was waiting. It sounds to me like a parent was home and denied access, without any willingness to reschedule. If the concern was serious enough then I could see why they'd call the police for escort.

It's not fun when DHS comes knocking, but what most people do is cooperate and provide information to address concerns so the accusation can be dismissed. Not giving access makes them seem guilty of something, which is a bad idea right now!

Maybe CPS and the parents set up the interview, as you suggest is normal, and then they decided to not allow them to see the child based on some bad advice? It wouldn't surprise me.

[Ella]

Just so sad about the ways some kids get treated. There are ways to raise many, happy children even in relative poverty, if you are compassionate. Israeli kids in large families may get lots of scrambled eggs instead of meat, but that's protein, and some may sleep on couches but each child gets a sleeping space, and they go to school and have friends and are treated with kindness and concern. This is what I've seen.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Silly poster - everyone knows that the Duggars don't struggle with things like mental illness or depression. That's only for us Godless heathens! :angry-banghead:

Also, I had many suicidal friends when I was in high school. I don't think DHS was ever involved, except maybe in cases where my friends were hospitalized. The most I've ever known of happening is a police intervention when the threat is active. I once called the police on a friend after he announced having suicidal thoughts and then turned his phone off. Even in that case, nothing happened after he was released from the hospital 72 hours later.

[December]

Their parents are watching out for them, and so are a bunch of lawyers. :pink-shock:

Well, you know what I meant. Someone *good*!

I suppose the longer the scandal remains in the news, the more likely people who have close knowledge (well, close as you can get) of the Duggar family will be to come forward with any potential evidence of abuse. Hopefully.

[polecat]

Devil's advocate: I totally understand not talking to police or authorities without at least talking to a lawyer first. In this case, if DHS truly just wanted to lay eyes on the child and if a guardian was needed and there, what would the harm have been of calling the child to the door for a few seconds and then sending them back off? Maybe I'm bring too literal but I'm also enough of a snarky person to say "There, you saw him/her, if you want anything else then I have to call my lawyer first."

I am not so sure I'd allow a cps worker in my house, but I absolutely would bring my child/ren to the front porch and let them have a chat with the worker if need be. I've nothing to hide, but I also have no desire to fling open the doors on my privacy and let people rifle through the minutiae of my life/my family's lives. But sure, talk to my kids -- you'll see they're happy, well-adjusted and confident. If you really, truly believe you need to see how we live in our private home even after seeing my kids are okay, feel free to get a warrant.

[justoneoftwo]

I am not so sure I'd allow a cps worker in my house, but I absolutely would bring my child/ren to the front porch and let them have a chat with the worker if need be. I've nothing to hide, but I also have no desire to fling open the doors on my privacy and let people rifle through the minutiae of my life/my family's lives. But sure, talk to my kids -- you'll see they're happy, well-adjusted and confident. If you really, truly believe you need to see how we live in our private home even after seeing my kids are okay, feel free to get a warrant.

Absolutely, my privacy from the state is important to me. There is a reason you need a warrant.

[Fascinated]

I am not so sure I'd allow a cps worker in my house, but I absolutely would bring my child/ren to the front porch and let them have a chat with the worker if need be. I've nothing to hide, but I also have no desire to fling open the doors on my privacy and let people rifle through the minutiae of my life/my family's lives. But sure, talk to my kids -- you'll see they're happy, well-adjusted and confident. If you really, truly believe you need to see how we live in our private home even after seeing my kids are okay, feel free to get a warrant.

It's funny because this sounds like very reasonable behaviour in these circumstances and yet, seeing the video of the Nauglers doing just this, they come across as batshit crazy.

And I agree with the poster (VelociRapture, maybe?) upthread. In their present situation if I were the Duggars, I would be quite concerned that this person was attempting to get information and/or photos for the media. I would imagine they are distrustful of everyone right now.