Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[Delilah]

Yes

I've been reading your comments. You rock!!!

I hope you (or anyone here with legal expertise) can explain to me which pieces of information were redacted?

http://garlandcounty.info/i-definitely- ... questions/

Mr. Roving "Reporter" (sarcasm much) is so biased with his writing. He is accusing the state of withholding crucial information. I'm confused what exactly is missing. Is some information not public under FOIA because there are minor children involved?

I am appalled that any parent would allow his child to be discussed in such a disrespectful way as is being done on the Bring facebook page. Hal is happy to let his teen kids get thrown under the bus. He very easily could post a request for people to not comment on the teens' behavior during this crucial time of re-establishing family harmony.

Lastly, why did Hal have 35% hydrogen peroxide?

[Saltwithsavor]

reports, I don't know if they are true was he was trying to remove a mole..

[gustava]

Just a little news from around here.

http://hotspringsdaily.com/2015/04/no-gag-order/

Wow!!! What a biased article. Even in my little backwater twice a week newspaper, that degree of bias would not fly.

[halcionne]

http://free-proxyserver.com/

Go to that page (or any other proxy server) and type the URL you want to see...that should take care of the problem.

(teenage son blocked me from his twitter, workaround is surprisingly easy. ha.)

LMAO you beat him at his own game!

[gustava]

I've been reading your comments. You rock!!!

I hope you (or anyone here with legal expertise) can explain to me which pieces of information were redacted?

http://garlandcounty.info/i-definitely- ... questions/

Mr. Roving "Reporter" (sarcasm much) is so biased with his writing. He is accusing the state of withholding crucial information. I'm confused what exactly is missing. Is some information not public under FOIA because there are minor children involved?

I am appalled that any parent would allow his child to be discussed in such a disrespectful way as is being done on the Bring facebook page. Hal is happy to let his teen kids get thrown under the bus. He very easily could post a request for people to not comment on the teens' behavior during this crucial time of re-establishing family harmony.

Lastly, why did Hal have 35% hydrogen peroxide?

And the "reporter" either doesn't know how to spell or he doesn't know how to proofread:

an underacted copy

[halcionne]

Wow!!! What a biased article. Even in my little backwater twice a week newspaper, that degree of bias would not fly.

It's not a real paper. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24747&p=919400&hilit=hot+springs+daily#p919400

[Palimpsest]

I've been reading your comments. You rock!!!

I hope you (or anyone here with legal expertise) can explain to me which pieces of information were redacted?

http://garlandcounty.info/i-definitely-do-have-questions/

Mr. Roving "Reporter" (sarcasm much) is so biased with his writing. He is accusing the state of withholding crucial information. I'm confused what exactly is missing. Is some information not public under FOIA because there are minor children involved?

I am appalled that any parent would allow his child to be discussed in such a disrespectful way as is being done on the Bring facebook page. Hal is happy to let his teen kids get thrown under the bus. He very easily could post a request for people to not comment on the teens' behavior during this crucial time of re-establishing family harmony.

Lastly, why did Hal have 35% hydrogen peroxide?

Not a lawyer but a former APS (adult protective) person. Educated guess: specific information pertaining to the minor children (and their names) and/or mentions of other individuals who have information pertaining to the case, or had witnessed abuse, would be redacted. Christopher Stanley, as the reporter, seems to have waived his right to confidentiality here because his name would have been redacted too in my state. From experience, redacting documents is a total nosebleed.

Also, I'd like to inform that "reporter" numbskull that child abuse can be investigated and substantiated (abuse confirmed) and interventions made with the family, without criminal charges being filed. Not all cases of child abuse reach the threshold required for criminal charges. Child Protective Services (called DHS in AR) is empowered to intervene in (non-criminal) cases by the Child Abuse Statute. Why can't reporters look that up?

It is still an open investigation because a case is only "closed" when a proper service plan is put in place to help prevent further abuse, or the children are removed for cause. We were expected to open and close cases in <6 months although extensions were allowed for very complex cases. Of course, many cases are opened and closed in much less time with cooperative families willing to work with us, but 6 months is quite common.

I strongly suspect that the Stanleys will become a "revolving door" case. As soon as DHS pulls out, Hal and Michelle will revert to their former behavior, try to pull the teens out of public school, and refuse to comply with any service plan in place.

[gustava]

It's not a real paper. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24747&p=919400&hilit=hot+springs+daily#p919400

Thank you. I'd forgotten that.

[Delilah]

Reader:

Personally, I formed my views of Hal based on the audio tapes he released of his morning "sermons". He didn't sound loving to me---he sounded scary, and I can't fathom a child living in that home and not being absolutely terrified of him.

I listened again to the Chastening is for Profit morning devotional. He sounds scary in a quiet way - no yelling like Pastor Anderson. He could certainly have made his points in half as many words. That was a looong breakfast sermon.

I noticed the following jabs at government and modern psychology:

approximately 12:00 - psychologists don't know more than God

approximately 14:40 - even if the federal government comes and says he can't do this, he will still have to obey God's word

approximately 19:50 - psychology books will teach you stuff that is wrong

approximately 22:30 - the Bible says "beat" not "spank"

I wish the state psychologist the best of luck. He or she is going to need it.

[Mama Mia]

Not a lawyer but a former APS (adult protective) person. Educated guess: specific information pertaining to the minor children (and their names) and/or mentions of other individuals who have information pertaining to the case, or had witnessed abuse, would be redacted. Christopher Stanley, as the reporter, seems to have waived his right to confidentiality here because his name would have been redacted too in my state. From experience, redacting documents is a total nosebleed.

Also, I'd like to inform that "reporter" numbskull that child abuse can be investigated and substantiated (abuse confirmed) and interventions made with the family, without criminal charges being filed. Not all cases of child abuse reach the threshold required for criminal charges. Child Protective Services (called DHS in AR) is empowered to intervene in (non-criminal) cases by the Child Abuse Statute. Why can't reporters look that up?

It is still an open investigation because a case is only "closed" when a proper service plan is put in place to help prevent further abuse, or the children are removed for cause. We were expected to open and close cases in <6 months although extensions were allowed for very complex cases. Of course, many cases are opened and closed in much less time with cooperative families willing to work with us, but 6 months is quite common.

I strongly suspect that the Stanleys will become a "revolving door" case. As soon as DHS pulls out, Hal and Michelle will revert to their former behavior, try to pull the teens out of public school, and refuse to comply with any service plan in place.

It seems really common for people to not understand that criminal charges are actually fairly unusual in CPS cases. It's an entirely different set of guidelines. I've tried to explain to people why that's a good thing. If parents had to follow the same laws with their children as they do with other people ---everyone would be in jail! :lol: Think of an average day with kids and substitute a grown , competent, adult you're bathing against their will, forcing into vehicles and driving away, taking to a stranger to be stuck with a needle, denying access to outside communication ( taking away their screens ) and on and on.

I've only seen people get actual criminal charges in cases of physical abuse leading to permanent injury or death - or in cases of sexual abuse. Sometimes there will be a child endangerment charge as part of a DUI or drug bust , or DV charge, but that's usually dropped.

But, as far as I know my state also doesnt have some "bad parent" list that some states seem to/. That list, if public, sounds awful , counter-productive and mideival IMHO.

Family maintenance plans - kids in home- CPS still involved, are often active for up to 18 months in my area. Often following the course that this family seems to.Crises leads to kids removal, kids come home for visits, lots of meetings,parents make changes, counseling , etc. Kids come home full-time. Court at six months. If family still needs follow up and services case stays open. Family continues counseling, Social Worker contact less frequent if things are going well. So there can be a good stretch of time of monitoring and resources.

[Saltwithsavor]

Same here in Arkansas..thank goodness though, Mr. and Mrs Stanley aren't going to change anytime soon and she's got a baby due in six weeks..they need someone looking out for those kids.

[Saltwithsavor]

1. Gosh, I'd like to feel sorry for the parents now that they actually have to care for the children they brought into the world, but I'm too busy caring for the children I brought into the world.

2. This Kristy isn't too aware of CPS, clearly. Counseling for drug-addicted parents and assistance for young families who need guidance is a big part of what social services does. Too bad you listened to Hal's interpretation instead of doing some actual research, Kristy.

3. A physiologist? Really?

Kristy just speaks what she is told and is fervent in her belief the Stanley's are persecuted. She would like to make this about civil right when it is about child endangerment. She would like it to really be about disgruntled teens when it is about abuse. She would also like to make it about fighting for freedoms when it is about protection of children. She would have you believe the Stanley's are railroaded, so.she set up a gofundme account that has more than $27,000 in it to pay for the pro bono attorney. She has tried to get people to work at the Stanley home for free. Cleaniing, mowing, repairing computers, (for the children's schooling,) gardening, now the latest is she wants items donated through Amazon, I don't know if that can be done but she's trying. The Stanley's play the victim so well.

[Terrie]

People also don't seem to understand that the factors that lead to immediate removal can be completely unrelated to the factors of what families are candidates for successful reunification.

I had relatives whose kids were taken by CPS. It was an emergency removal, because the house was physically unsafe due to things like lack of food, unclean conditions. Even once they corrected these issues, the kids did not return home right away, because there was also an issue of physical abuse. the wife had been abused as a child, and so disciplined her children with hitting, slapping, hair pulling, etc, because that was what she knew how to do. CPS made them go through parenting classes and the wife had to show she could apply the skills she had learned there before the kids came home and CPS closed the case.

There were a lot of factors involved. Poverty, severe depression, lack of skills. Some of these led to the emergency removal and others are why it took longer to get the kids home. None of these mean that they should have never gotten the kids back, or been criminally charged. The same applies to the Stanleyss. Just because the kids were removed and then came home over 60+ days does not mean that they never should have been removed and there's a grand conspiracy. That the kids came home means the process is working. :angry-banghead:

[Saltwithsavor]

The process is working or trying to but Hal believes the kids are home because of the pressure likeminded citizens have applied.. Either way they are home now.hope there will be a watchful eye on these folks..for a while.

[2xx1xy1JD]

People also don't seem to understand that the factors that lead to immediate removal can be completely unrelated to the factors of what families are candidates for successful reunification.

I had relatives whose kids were taken by CPS. It was an emergency removal, because the house was physically unsafe due to things like lack of food, unclean conditions. Even once they corrected these issues, the kids did not return home right away, because there was also an issue of physical abuse. the wife had been abused as a child, and so disciplined her children with hitting, slapping, hair pulling, etc, because that was what she knew how to do. CPS made them go through parenting classes and the wife had to show she could apply the skills she had learned there before the kids came home and CPS closed the case.

There were a lot of factors involved. Poverty, severe depression, lack of skills. Some of these led to the emergency removal and others are why it took longer to get the kids home. None of these mean that they should have never gotten the kids back, or been criminally charged. The same applies to the Stanleyss. Just because the kids were removed and then came home over 60+ days does not mean that they never should have been removed and there's a grand conspiracy. That the kids came home means the process is working. :angry-banghead:

THIS.

Once they are involved, for any reason, they tend to investigate and often find things that concern them which can be unrelated to the original reason for involvement. In one case, for example, the original problem was injuries to a baby found after a car accident. When I pieced it together, it looked like that concern might have been unfounded (injuries were serious but likely accidental). During the CPS involvement, though, it became clear that the parents were schizophrenic and that the mother in particular did not have her condition under control. When I give advice to parents, I often suggest that they be nice to investigators initially so that the file can be closed quickly at intake and they aren't subject to more rigorous investigation and digging.

Kids can also be returned because a safety plan was put in place, and/or because things got better. This was somewhat common in the physical abuse cases - a parent who wasn't sadistic but simply lacking in skills sometimes just needed to learn better tools and show some insight into their behavior.

[Terrie]

Kids can also be returned because a safety plan was put in place, and/or because things got better. This was somewhat common in the physical abuse cases - a parent who wasn't sadistic but simply lacking in skills sometimes just needed to learn better tools and show some insight into their behavior.

Exactly. The wife of my relatives? She loved and still loves her kids fiercely. She tried really hard to be better than her parents. She wouldn't twist her kids arms up around their backs, or hit them with heavy objects. But she wasn't the sort of person who could read a parenting book and figure out different ways of doing things. She needed someone to show her. So until CPS stepped in, she fell back on what she had learned as a child minus the worst of it.

She is far, far from a perfect parent, and I'm pretty sure she still spanks sometimes, but now she has options beyond "Hit the kid. If that doesn't work, keep hitting the kid until it does."

[Koala]

The Christ Honored family is the place of freedom, the place of free deeds. Freedom is the ability to exercise the conscience without interference. A conscience which is free is able to bow only to the precious words of Christ. This glorious freedom is expressed in family worship, family learning, family health, family birth, and in family business! Glorious freedom in deed! Are you free? Do you sense a few entanglements? Do you feel a little fire burning in your belly to stand? Is servitude starting to stink? Christ sets us free to live free. Imagine every second of the the day free in Christ our precious Master!

(LEB) For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Bro Hal

I am telling you, something about the way Hal talks scares the absolute shit out of me. He doesn't seem to have a lot standing between him and doing something crazy. Gotta break free from the yolk ofnot being able to beat your kids slavery you know. :shock:

[mrs]

You know what really bothers me, it's when people post to the supporting Facebook pages about hope this would never happen to an Amish family. Honestly, we would never know if it did because they don't publicize it on the internet!!!

[salex]

Remember, the Hot Springs Daily is basically a tea party blog

It may have been started about 6 months ago by Jock MacGregor,

Managing Editor

who was in Marketing before, per his linked in. So it is not surprising that the writing is bloggy not journalistic.

A"real" newspaper in Hot Springs is

http://www.hotsr.com/ the Hot Springs Sentinel Record, but it may require payment to read.

[Saltwithsavor]

There is no gag order...misinformation from Stanley's lawyer.

http://youtu.be/A4QeINMt55w

[Saltwithsavor]

OPINION: Thoughts On The Latest Stanley Hearing.

CommunityOpinionsApril 15, 2015 2 401

Last report no adjudication on charges but in mediation all terms were agreed to by the Stanley family. Notably the psychologist being in the home 20 hours a week.

[IronicallyMaeve]

Exactly. The wife of my relatives? She loved and still loves her kids fiercely. She tried really hard to be better than her parents. She wouldn't twist her kids arms up around their backs, or hit them with heavy objects. But she wasn't the sort of person who could read a parenting book and figure out different ways of doing things. She needed someone to show her. So until CPS stepped in, she fell back on what she had learned as a child minus the worst of it.

She is far, far from a perfect parent, and I'm pretty sure she still spanks sometimes, but now she has options beyond "Hit the kid. If that doesn't work, keep hitting the kid until it does."

Absolutely. A professor (developmental psychopathology) of mine teaches court-mandated parenting classes sometimes. She says that most of the parents really love their kids and want what's best for them. They just never learned positive parenting techniques. Many of them were abused themselves. Once they learn better ways to parent their children, they're usually okay.

[FJismyheadship]

Can I just say that it really bothers me that the Stanley's get press, hundreds on people in their court, thousands of dollars in donations just because they are "persecuted Christians" while my friend is having a hell of a time getting her own daughter back from her sister who lied to her and tricked her? My friend doesn't have the money for a lawyer. She can't even see her baby because the law enforcement in the area the baby is currently in is being stupid. So CPS "steals kids" and "persecutes Christians" but a single mother who's sister practically kidnapped the child (and did it legally by tricking her sister into believing the temporary custody agreement was only for three months) and is trying to keep the child and change her name gets nothing. Thats just bullshit.

I would almost tell my friend to try the persecuted Christian angle, unfortunately, there isn't one. She doesn't believe in vaccines until a child is two, so I suppose that could get some leverage, but damn! The Stanley story takes off like a rocket while my friend is struggling trying to work double shifts to earn the money to get her daughter back while taking care of her autistic son.

This infuriates me.

[Toothfairy]

Can I just say that it really bothers me that the Stanley's get press, hundreds on people in their court, thousands of dollars in donations just because they are "persecuted Christians" while my friend is having a hell of a time getting her own daughter back from her sister who lied to her and tricked her? My friend doesn't have the money for a lawyer. She can't even see her baby because the law enforcement in the area the baby is currently in is being stupid. So CPS "steals kids" and "persecutes Christians" but a single mother who's sister practically kidnapped the child (and did it legally by tricking her sister into believing the temporary custody agreement was only for three months) and is trying to keep the child and change her name gets nothing. Thats just bullshit.

I would almost tell my friend to try the persecuted Christian angle, unfortunately, there isn't one. She doesn't believe in vaccines until a child is two, so I suppose that could get some leverage, but damn! The Stanley story takes off like a rocket while my friend is struggling trying to work double shifts to earn the money to get her daughter back while taking care of her autistic son.

This infuriates me.

I'm sorry FJ. That's horrible. I agree that all you have to do is claim christian and see the money and support rolling in. The Stanleys are using this case for freebies and money. Just a few days ago they wanted to set up an Amazon wish list. hope your friend can get her kid back. That's really terrible what happened to her. :(

[halcionne]

Can I just say that it really bothers me that the Stanley's get press, hundreds on people in their court, thousands of dollars in donations just because they are "persecuted Christians" while my friend is having a hell of a time getting her own daughter back from her sister who lied to her and tricked her? My friend doesn't have the money for a lawyer. She can't even see her baby because the law enforcement in the area the baby is currently in is being stupid. So CPS "steals kids" and "persecutes Christians" but a single mother who's sister practically kidnapped the child (and did it legally by tricking her sister into believing the temporary custody agreement was only for three months) and is trying to keep the child and change her name gets nothing. Thats just bullshit.

I would almost tell my friend to try the persecuted Christian angle, unfortunately, there isn't one. She doesn't believe in vaccines until a child is two, so I suppose that could get some leverage, but damn! The Stanley story takes off like a rocket while my friend is struggling trying to work double shifts to earn the money to get her daughter back while taking care of her autistic son.

This infuriates me.

Is there any sort of legal aid group where your friend lives? Legal aid has helped me through some bad situations in the past. Free or sliding scale.