Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[gustava]

Can you elaborate on this? Wouldn't they still need the passport ID card, or whatever, that's good for Canada and Mexico only?

As of March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children -- must present a valid passport, book or card, for travel beyond the “border zone†into the interior of Mexico. Entry by any means, for example by plane or car, is included in this requirement. The “border zone†is generally defined as an area between 20 to 30 kilometers of the border with the U.S., depending on the location. Stays of less than 72 hours within the border zone do not require a visa or tourist card.

I think they could walk across the border at someplace such as Tijuana, Brownsville, or Nogales without a passport, but then they'd be stuck there.

[quiversR4hunting]

In my state, a man can be listed as the father and the child can have his last name without any legal rights. If the father wants to be able to make legal decisions, have access to medical records, and visitation rights, he has to fill out more forms and has so many days to take a legal DNA test. If the couple is married, he does not have to take any of those steps. I'm sure it varies state to state. Was just my best guess as to why court paperwork would list him that way.

Legal father is the father that is the father of the child because of marriage. In majority states if a couple is married and the wife has a child during the marriage her husband is the "legal father". It doesn't mean he is or isn't the biological father-it's just a legal term. If the wife was having an affair and the child belongs to affair man, affair man needs to go to court and do a revocation of paternity- meaning get paternity removed from the legal father (husband) by proving affair man is the biological father with a paternity test.

Yes states have different ways to indicate fathers and when a husband is the legal father (like if the parties or separated or not when the baby was born or possibly conceived) but for the most part it reads like the definition from the federal child support office. Each child support agency in all 50 states get money from the feds to run the program so the state programs follow the feds lead.

So I wouldn't read too much into the term legal father. In laymans terms it means the parties were married when the children were born and he is legally responsible for the child(ren).

edit - forgot to add- when a dad signs the birth certificate at the hospital AND the parents aren't married, the hospital will often ask if the dad will sign the AOP (affidavit of paternity) and that is a legal document for paternity.

~disclaimer and source- not an attorney,not playing one on fj, I am a child support worker (not in arkansas) and http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fi ... ossary.pdf

[nelliebelle1197]

Legal father is the father that is the father of the child because of marriage. In majority states if a couple is married and the wife has a child during the marriage her husband is the "legal father". It doesn't mean he is or isn't the biological father-it's just a legal term. If the wife was having an affair and the child belongs to affair man, affair man needs to go to court and do a revocation of paternity- meaning get paternity removed from the legal father (husband) by proving affair man is the biological father with a paternity test.

Yes states have different ways to indicate fathers and when a husband is the legal father (like if the parties or separated or not when the baby was born or possibly conceived) but for the most part it reads like the definition from the federal child support office. Each child support agency in all 50 states get money from the feds to run the program so the state programs follow the feds lead.

So I wouldn't read too much into the term legal father. In laymans terms it means the parties were married when the children were born and he is legally responsible for the child(ren).

edit - forgot to add- when a dad signs the birth certificate at the hospital AND the parents aren't married, the hospital will often ask if the dad will sign the AOP (affidavit of paternity) and that is a legal document for paternity.

~disclaimer and source- not an attorney,not playing one on fj, I am a child support worker (not in arkansas) and http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fi ... ossary.pdf

Hmmm.... I think we are in the same area and in similar lines of work. I bet your people know my people!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Legal father is the father that is the father of the child because of marriage. In majority states if a couple is married and the wife has a child during the marriage her husband is the "legal father". It doesn't mean he is or isn't the biological father-it's just a legal term. If the wife was having an affair and the child belongs to affair man, affair man needs to go to court and do a revocation of paternity- meaning get paternity removed from the legal father (husband) by proving affair man is the biological father with a paternity test.

Yes states have different ways to indicate fathers and when a husband is the legal father (like if the parties or separated or not when the baby was born or possibly conceived) but for the most part it reads like the definition from the federal child support office. Each child support agency in all 50 states get money from the feds to run the program so the state programs follow the feds lead.

So I wouldn't read too much into the term legal father. In laymans terms it means the parties were married when the children were born and he is legally responsible for the child(ren).

edit - forgot to add- when a dad signs the birth certificate at the hospital AND the parents aren't married, the hospital will often ask if the dad will sign the AOP (affidavit of paternity) and that is a legal document for paternity.

~disclaimer and source- not an attorney,not playing one on fj, I am a child support worker (not in arkansas) and http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/fi ... ossary.pdf

In CA, and probably many states, affair man can't even do that. If the couple is married and the husband signs the certificate, that's the end of the story. Affair man cannot petition to establish paternity. You cannot revoke husbands legal fatherhood. It's only if the husband says no, it's not mine then husband has to file to establish paternity. Then affair man can jump in. And if husband claims that kid for whatever reason, it's his kid. He can't go back in 10 years when they divorce and say no it's not mine, I don't want to pay child support. Biology means very little because the courts want what is best for the child, and that's a married mother and father (so says the court)

[Saltwithsavor]

If I'm understanding correctly, Clay is saying that a protective order is basically the same thing as a gag order. The government is doing fancy legal speak, but Clay is here to cut through the bullshit and keep it real.

Why did he black out the kids' ages but not their names? Shouldn't he have blacked out the names too?

I looked at the Bringing facebook page today. So now people are suggesting Michelle should consider leaving the country to have her baby. How in the world would that work?! Do these people think she should drive to Mexico or something? People seem to think CPS is poised to snatch the baby.

Saltwithsavor, are people in your area actually protesting in front of the sheriff station like some of the Stanley supporters are suggesting, or is that just big talk? Some people on the facebook page keep saying there isn't enough local outrage, so we need to make some noise. Let's call Dr. Phil!

It's all for media attention...last court hearing they had 12 people out front of the courthouse..sherriff office is next door to the courthouse. It is NOT a daily thing. But they would like for you to think that. Clay is a wanna be..i would like to see this judge hold him in contempt. Poor kids..now anyone who want can see their names..bad form for this guy. I can also say our local home schooling defense org..won't touch them because the allegations were about child abuse not home schooling issues as the Stanley's would have you believe. Mainstream media has investigated and they have a brief update on the case and that's all. Hal is one scary guy. You are right about his wanting to be a martyr..

[Saltwithsavor]

I think she's due in 3 weeks. They won't leave the country because they're not the sort of people to get passports.

I agree that Hal's hatching a plan. I predict he will continue to portray himself as a Christian martyr fighting against the ungodly government. He will continue to post about how Satan in working against him, but he will continue the fight even though it is exhausting. I think he'll do the minimum necessary to keep the kids, but he'll continue to push the limits. His fan club will cheer for him. They'll send him money. He will funnel the money through his "church" so he doesn't have to pay taxes. Yuck.

You have hit the nail on the head. Sadly..and he will continue to abuse..

[Toothfairy]

These people are moochers. They want fans to send them computers, meals, help with gardening. Wtf??

[Saltwithsavor]

And they are getting

[paintergurl]

This man, Hal Stanley, reminds me of my ex-stepfather. He even looks very similar. My stepfather, Hank, has left behind 2 families and is on his third. I believe Hank very much wanted the role of patriarch in his families, and when his wife and children did not fall in line, he'd leave them, blaming his wife and children, and just make another. Become born again, again, and just start over leaving his broken family behind.

He left my mother for the teenage girl who lived down the road. She was 19, he was 45. With her he finally was able to set himself up as the godly head of his home and family w three new daughters- homechurched, homeschooled and insulated from the outside world. To me, Hank is an evil, harmful man. The thought of Hal Stanley makes me sick.

And totally OT, Toothfairy is that a baby squirrel with a broken leg for your avatar?

[quiversR4hunting]

- cut to save space-

In CA, and probably many states, affair man can't even do that. If the couple is married and the husband signs the certificate, that's the end of the story. Affair man cannot petition to establish paternity. You cannot revoke husbands legal fatherhood. It's only if the husband says no, it's not mine then husband has to file to establish paternity. Then affair man can jump in. And if husband claims that kid for whatever reason, it's his kid. He can't go back in 10 years when they divorce and say no it's not mine, I don't want to pay child support. Biology means very little because the courts want what is best for the child, and that's a married mother and father (so says the court)

It may be coming. The revocation of paternity just became "easier" (still has a lot of hoops to jump thru) to do in my state. It's still a petition to the court and a Judge has to make the decision. IIRC, the married dad can't petition the revocation of paternity- only the affair man can petition the court. My state is the same as CA in the fact the married man (now divorced) can't say 10 years after the divorce the kid isn't his and request a revocation of paternity.

[Trynn]

Also, DNA testing is fairly recent. We may just be seeing the lag in courts catching up 100% with the technology. I mean, a while ago there wasn't really a 100% way to know of kid was affair mans or husbands, so this law somewhat makes sense. I mean, I know there's blood tests too but from what I understand those can be a bit iffy.

[Saltwithsavor]

These people are moochers. They want fans to send them computers, meals, help with gardening. Wtf??

They have had about 7 people gardening this past weekend. Hal calls them his neglected garden spots.. People are bringing meals for 10 people . Michele is due in a month...thank God the oldest son Christopher spoke up for his siblings. He's well spoken, and intelligent. They can no longer force the older children to be "slaves." I know kids should help out, but I can't imagine how these kids have been treated. Clay Herrmann the author of the newspaper article is a tea party guy..started this paper when he decided to run for elected office..County judge...I shudder.

[Saltwithsavor]

This man, Hal Stanley, reminds me of my ex-stepfather. He even looks very similar. My stepfather, Hank, has left behind 2 families and is on his third. I believe Hank very much wanted the role of patriarch in his families, and when his wife and children did not fall in line, he'd leave them, blaming his wife and children, and just make another. Become born again, again, and just start over leaving his broken family behind.

He left my mother for the teenage girl who lived down the road. She was 19, he was 45. With her he finally was able to set himself up as the godly head of his home and family w three new daughters- homechurched, homeschooled and insulated from the outside world. To me, Hank is an evil, harmful man. The thought of Hal Stanley makes me sick.

And totally OT, Toothfairy is that a baby squirrel with a broken leg for your avatar?

Hal is a tea party, oath keeper, and quiver full follower. Discipline is the Pearl method. His other beliefs consist of if a child is ill they have sin present in their life, if the child does not adequately repent...they are beaten until they do..moocher does not begin to describe their life style. The oldest son, Christopher is a saint in my book for exposing just a part of what goes on in that house.

[apple1]

This family disturbs me more than any of the other FJ follows - even more than the (shudder) Rodrigues family.

[Palimpsest]

This family disturbs me more than any of the other FJ follows - even more than the (shudder) Rodrigues family.

I completely agree. Some of these off-gridders make even the Rodrigues and Maxwell families look functional. See Papa Pilgrim, Gavers, et al. One wonders, as someone else said up-thread, whether Hal Stanley's decent into madness has been gradual or he's always been like this. Christopher is very well-spoken and seems to be in college, so at least there may be some education going on in the Stanley house of horrors.

I do hope Christopher is getting good support from somewhere. For certain sure he is not going to get anything from his parents. There is a sister who has also escaped (Stassie?) IIRC, and Hal's first family may be able to help.

SaltwithSavor, are you local to the Stanleys? Can you shed any light on Christopher's situation? Also, how isolated are the Stanleys both socially and geographically? I know there are leghumpers all around right now, but did they actually have friends and relatives around before?

[Saltwithsavor]

Yes I'm local. Christopher has a Twitter account but I don't know what name he uses. His support is himself and I belive his older sister..the Stanley's are near town about 10 minutes away, however seems they have a couple of acres to themselves..socially, homeschool, home birth, home churched. Kids not allowed to leave the home, except when they turn 18. On their own only allowed to come home for visits. Hal's first family are conspicuously silent. They live out west somewhere. Michele and her family are from Louisiana..only a cousin has voiced support. Friends? Hand picked by Hal..two women, very outspoken..are the ones who have started the gofundme, written letters, and started petitions..now we have the wanna be roving reporter Clay Herrmann, hotspringsdaily, who has political aspirations as a tea party candidate. You can guess his motive.

[Delilah]

I think Hal might be starting to lose some support. He posted on Facebook about the need for corporal punishment and why the Baltimore Mom did a good thing by disciplining her son. That post also appears on the Bring the Stanley Kids Home Facebook page. A very reasonable dialogue between Hal's supporters appears in the comments. One woman said that if Hal is using corporal punishment on his children, she will no longer support him. Other people weighed in on the difference between spanking and beating. There is a polite debate going on there as I type this. The lady who disagrees with corporal punishment posted links to a Psychology Today article and other articles about the harmful effects that corporal punishment does to children's brains.

I think some of Hal's supporters are uncomfortable about his admission of beating the children as he feels God commands.

[Saltwithsavor]

Wonderful...I'm blocked from the page so don't get notifications and can't link to it..

[CrazyMumma]

I think Hal might be starting to lose some support. He posted on Facebook about the need for corporal punishment and why the Baltimore Mom did a good thing by disciplining her son. That post also appears on the Bring the Stanley Kids Home Facebook page. A very reasonable dialogue between Hal's supporters appears in the comments. One woman said that if Hal is using corporal punishment on his children, she will no longer support him. Other people weighed in on the difference between spanking and beating. There is a polite debate going on there as I type this. The lady who disagrees with corporal punishment posted links to a Psychology Today article and other articles about the harmful effects that corporal punishment does to children's brains.

I think some of Hal's supporters are uncomfortable about his admission of beating the children as he feels God commands.

Looks like it's been deleted.. I can't find that on the Bring the Stanley Kids Home page. He sounds like a crazy idiot. Hope DOCS can see through him!

[Saltwithsavor]

He's evil

[Saltwithsavor]

The Rodrigues and maxwell famlies are also quiver full followers..most are ministers..sadly who ask for public financial support because they have large families..Stanlys are the same

[Delilah]

Looks like it's been deleted.. I can't find that on the Bring the Stanley Kids Home page. He sounds like a crazy idiot. Hope DOCS can see through him!

I just checked, and I can still see it. The lady passionately against corporal punishment is named Anastasia Smith. There is quite the discussion going on! There are approximately 50 comments or replies to comments on this, and it's only been on the Bring facebook page for 2 hours.

I said before that the discussion is polite and reasonable. I'd like to update my analysis - some people are being a bit condescending. The comments now include a range of opinions. One lady says she doesn't agree with how the Stanleys discipline, but the government needs to stay out of their business. Other people say that spanking is a perfectly acceptable form of discipline. One jerk commenter posted a e-card that says "Spare the rod and end up with a spoiled brat with a sense of entitlement that demands instant gratification".

I wonder how many of these comments will still be there tomorrow.

[DarkAnts]

He's evil

He is sick, but that is no excuse for his actions.

I have great deal of concern that Hal is mentally ill and possibly at the starting stages of dementia. His must have started to declining at a rapid speed because his son tipped him off to authorities. I pity Hal in some ways because I am a survivor of mental illness. I will not go into personal detail beyond that. Like I said, it will never excuse his actions.

I have pitty for him but not sympathy. He has many resources available to help him recover but he refuses to use them. There are many who are just as sick as him but can not afford the resources he is being handed to for free. He chooses to live in his paranoid world.

[Saltwithsavor]

It would seem by some comments on his supporter page there are a lot of paranoid people standing with him.. Standing with the Stanley Family Supporter Page. Scary

[Saltwithsavor]

I just checked, and I can still see it. The lady passionately against corporal punishment is named Anastasia Smith. There is quite the discussion going on! There are approximately 50 comments or replies to comments on this, and it's only been on the Bring facebook page for 2 hours.

I said before that the discussion is polite and reasonable. I'd like to update my analysis - some people are being a bit condescending. The comments now include a range of opinions. One lady says she doesn't agree with how the Stanleys discipline, but the government needs to stay out of their business. Other people say that spanking is a perfectly acceptable form of discipline. One jerk commenter posted a e-card that says "Spare the rod and end up with a spoiled brat with a sense of entitlement that demands instant gratification".

I wonder how many of these comments will still be there tomorrow.

Anastasia's won't be..