Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[Terrie]

Kristy (of physiologist vs. psychologist fame) wrote that state visits have come as late as 8 PM. Hal is 73 which is the age my mom was when I lost her to Alzheimer's Disease. Her symptoms were worse in the evenings. I wonder if the timing of the visit was to check for Sundowner's Syndrome.

Just a thought.

Brrrr. If he's sundowning, I'd had to be in that house. People sundowning may hallucinate, and what they see if often related to their fears and worries - creepy crawlies or devil figures. In Hal's case, that could easily be all sorts of issues with the kids that would need to be "corrected." Let's hope he's not.

(My grandmother, when she was sundowning, saw dirty laundry).

[Koala]

Good god almighty, can you imagine being 73 years old and about to be at the parenting starting line all over again??? I would lose.my.mind. I have plans for that time in my life. Calm, relaxing plans. What are these people thinking?

How old is the mom?

[Toothfairy]

73 and expecting a baby :shock:

[Palimpsest]

I'm just shocked that their local CPS system has the funding to provide 20 hours a week of in-home counseling/home visting/support for one family for an extended period! :shock:

Unless they are just having a lower level supervised vistation person hanging out in the evenings? I don't know, seems waaayyyy more pricey than anything I';ve ever seen.

Not saying it's a bad idea, it's probably incredibly helpful;, long term, to get the family into more healthy , less hostile, relationships with the older kids. But I am surprised that there are agencies with that kind of money.

I agree with the bolded. It is a lot! Could be that there has been huge political pressure to send them home and CPS is really nervous, or Hal Stanley is exaggerating the # of hours, or that the observation is by paraprofessionals of some sort (paraprofessional is the wrong word but I think you know what I mean) rather than by a psychologist (or physiologist :) ) or LCSW.

FYI, I was just told that Websleuths has a couple of megathreads on this case. Sometimes "verified attorneys" comment there who have interesting input about legalities in specific states. I don't have time to look at the threads today, but if anyone else has time to scroll here's the second thread: websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?273954-AR-Fully-Armed-Sheriffs-Remove-7-Homeschool-Children-from-Prepper-Family

[Delilah]

I agree with the bolded. It is a lot! Could be that there has been huge political pressure to send them home and CPS is really nervous, or Hal Stanley is exaggerating the # of hours, or that the observation is by paraprofessionals of some sort (paraprofessional is the wrong word but I think you know what I mean) rather than by a psychologist (or physiologist :) ) or LCSW.

FYI, I was just told that Websleuths has a couple of megathreads on this case. Sometimes "verified attorneys" comment there who have interesting input about legalities in specific states. I don't have time to look at the threads today, but if anyone else has time to scroll here's the second thread: websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?273954-AR-Fully-Armed-Sheriffs-Remove-7-Homeschool-Children-from-Prepper-Family

I'm reading the thread on this at Websleuths. Actually, someone here told me about it. They discuss the contents of the affidavit a lot which is interesting stuff. Many people are grossed out that they buried the bodies of their 3 stillborns or miscarriages on their property. People also wonder if their sole source of income is cyber-begging. They also discuss how interesting :roll: it is that they need help fixing up their computers for homeschooling at the same time they are being investigated for educational neglect. Have fun reading!

[gustava]

Burying their stillborns/miscarriages on their property doesn't gross me out at all, but I think they'd need legal permission to do so.

[Mrs Ms]

Could the number of hours supervision have anything to do with the number of children needing supervision? If each child is normally entitled to 4 hours a week and they have heaps of children (sorry, I don't know how many they have) it would easily add up to 20 hours a week for the family.

[Trynn]

I'm also on web sleuths and I could not find the thread for the life of me. I'm on a phone so I can't copy and paste the link. For some reason my phone doesn't let me copy things from freejinger.

[Delilah]

I'm also on web sleuths and I could not find the thread for the life of me. I'm on a phone so I can't copy and paste the link. For some reason my phone doesn't let me copy things from freejinger.

Have you noticed on web sleuths that they post about some aspects of the case that aren't discussed here? For example, they discuss how Hal slapped the teen girl causing a bloody nose. It was apparently mentioned in Sheriff Wright's podcast. I have tried to find that podcast, but no luck.

This case has been hard to follow because we get most of our info from Hal himself. Any dissenting views are deleted from the Bring and Standing facebook sites. It would be helpful to get some reliable info from the source.

[Trynn]

Have you noticed on web sleuths that they post about some aspects of the case that aren't discussed here? For example, they discuss how Hal slapped the teen girl causing a bloody nose. It was apparently mentioned in Sheriff Wright's podcast. I have tried to find that podcast, but no luck.

This case has been hard to follow because we get most of our info from Hal himself. Any dissenting views are deleted from the Bring and Standing facebook sites. It would be helpful to get some reliable info from the source.

I haven't noticed, because I'm on my phone and can't find the Thea's. Was hoping someone would tell me which forum to look under because apparently it isn't one that makes any sense (Ateast to me)

[VaSportsMom]

I haven't noticed, because I'm on my phone and can't find the Thea's. Was hoping someone would tell me which forum to look under because apparently it isn't one that makes any sense (Ateast to me)

Current Events then Up to the minute

[Delilah]

Good god almighty, can you imagine being 73 years old and about to be at the parenting starting line all over again??? I would lose.my.mind. I have plans for that time in my life. Calm, relaxing plans. What are these people thinking?

How old is the mom?

I read somewhere that she's in her early 40s.

[FJismyheadship]

I thought she was in her mid to late thirties.

Her youngest is what, five? What happens when Hal dies? Who is going to take care of Michelle and the kids then?

[Howl]

I thought she was in her mid to late thirties.

Her youngest is what, five? What happens when Hal dies? Who is going to take care of Michelle and the kids then?

Yup, my thoughts exactly. But people like Hal could still live a loooooong time, like 15 or 20 more years. Of course, wifey could also continue (and will likely continue) to have kids during that time.

I'm a gonna have a nice cup of hot tea right now and never think about THAT again, lest my brain implode. :o

The Web sleuth comments are interesting and definitely a breath of fresh air after the nutty FB posts by the Stanley leg humpers.

[momof2treasures]

I'm not sure it will matter if Hal is around or not. He is retired correct? They probably live off social security .

[for_the_Kitties]

I'm not sure it will matter if Hal is around or not. He is retired correct? They probably live off social security .

Doubtful - That is government assistance and therefore evil in their minds.

[gustava]

Doubtful - That is government assistance and therefore evil in their minds.

Social security is deducted from paychecks so he probably considers it money he deserves. Also, as a parent over 65, his children under 18 are entitled to receive benefits under his social security.

Of course, it all depends on if he worked for four quarters and had deductions.

[quiversR4hunting]

Social security is deducted from paychecks so he probably considers it money he deserves. Also, as a parent over 65, his children under 18 are entitled to receive benefits under his social security.

Of course, it all depends on if he worked for four quarters and had deductions.

ministers can opt out of paying social Security. So he may not qualify for SS.

If he didn't opt out because he is a "minister" then money guru's state don't delay taking SS after 70 because it doesn't increase any longer and it could mess up Medicaid (the suggest signing up for Medicaid by 65).

Members of certain established religious groups may qualify for an exemption from Social Security taxation if the group is conscientiously opposed to accepting government benefits and existed as a religious group before 1951

Read more about the minister exemption : ehow.com/info_8539334_social-security-voluntary-mandatory.html

[momof2treasures]

Do you think Hal has been a minister his whole life? I'll bet at some point he had a traditional job. I don't see how this family lives otherwise.

[mrs]

Do you think Hal has been a minister his whole life? I'll bet at some point he had a traditional job. I don't see how this family lives otherwise.

I believe he is veteran, IIRC.

[Terrie]

From the BringtheStaleyKidsHome FB page:

But I broke down and cried as he told me that the midwife they had planned to use for a home birth next month was interrogated and intimidated by police and "warned" to stay away from the Stanleys, which means Mrs. Stanley is 6 weeks from her due date with no midwife.

How DARE law enforcement warn off the midwife, right? Only a later comment, also form the page moderator, notes:

Yes she was brought into the sherffis office and questioned about the births of the chidren and a couple of miscarraiges over the course of the last 22 years. She feels threated and her counsel has advised her to stay away.

So the warning was not from law enforcement, but her own lawyer? how DARE a lawyer advise their client! How DARE law enforcement question a witness on an issue of concern.... Wait, that's not right. How DARE.... um, um, Personal choice! Parental freedom! Government overreach!

Every time they talk, I watch the hole get deeper and deeper.

[apandaaries]

From the BringtheStaleyKidsHome FB page:

How DARE law enforcement warn off the midwife, right? Only a later comment, also form the page moderator, notes:

So the warning was not from law enforcement, but her own lawyer? how DARE a lawyer advise their client! How DARE law enforcement question a witness on an issue of concern.... Wait, that's not right. How DARE.... um, um, Personal choice! Parental freedom! Government overreach!

Every time they talk, I watch the hole get deeper and deeper.

If I were law enforcement, I would be very concerned to find miscarried fetuses and stillborns on the premises. And I would DEFINITELY want to consult with the midwife who'd been supervising there.

The teens are still out of the house and in school, right? I feel so terrible for the younger kids. I'm glad they're on law enforcement's radar, but the entire story is terribly disturbing, and somehow just gets worse. :shock:

[quiversR4hunting]

If I were law enforcement, I would be very concerned to find miscarried fetuses and stillborns on the premises. And I would DEFINITELY want to consult with the midwife who'd been supervising there.

The teens are still out of the house and in school, right? I feel so terrible for the younger kids. I'm glad they're on law enforcement's radar, but the entire story is terribly disturbing, and somehow just gets worse. :shock:

The teenagers are in the home but must continue to attend public school. The younger kids can be homeschooled again.

[VVV]

ministers can opt out of paying social Security. So he may not qualify for SS.

If he didn't opt out because he is a "minister" then money guru's state don't delay taking SS after 70 because it doesn't increase any longer and it could mess up Medicaid (the suggest signing up for Medicaid by 65).

Members of certain established religious groups may qualify for an exemption from Social Security taxation if the group is conscientiously opposed to accepting government benefits and existed as a religious group before 1951

Read more about the minister exemption : ehow.com/info_8539334_social-security-voluntary-mandatory.html

I think you mean Medicare. Medicaid is government health care for the indigent; Medicare is government health insurance that starts at age 65.

[Trynn]

I think you mean Medicare. Medicaid is government health care for the indigent; Medicare is government health insurance that starts at age 65.

I can never keep them straight