Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[Mitz_]

Has John ever spoken of the hipocracy in his belief that NOTHING in the way of needful things should be donated to his African "friends" because it would encourage dependency? That they should trust that The Lord will provide? Who is more dependent on donations than John? Why is anything given to him a "love offering" or the Lord's provision but any gift to an African would be a threat to his chance to exist independently?

[Inky]

And is this the guy married to Anna Duggars sister?

His poor wife and children!

[Coco]

Packing up a large family and moving all of them plus all their crap they just had to bring had to have been quite an undertaking. (We've moved 3 times, all within 30 mins or less of driving distance, with our one child and I plan to never, ever do it again!) Imagine if John could've put a fraction of that effort into a REAL JOB.

His resume reads like that of maybe a 19-22 year-old. And why do fundies substitute in evil public schools?

P.S. John, in my state all you need is a high school diploma or equivalent to be a sub, as far as education goes. It's not exactly something to brag about. It's an honest day's work and I'm not putting it down at all because my dad subbed when times were tight and he did alright. But he also has a degree that allowed him a couple long-time gigs filling in for teachers on leave, with a bit better pay.

Just guessing here but he probably left the majority of the packing/managing/sorting/cleaning/planning details of caring for the children while they moved, up to the women. As much of a jerk as that would make him, no doubt Esther was secretly glad not to have him meddling and getting in the way if that was the case. I just can't see someone like John feeling it worth his time to do menial labor around the house under the supervision of his wife.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

His fb page states the issue is about repentance. Wtf? Former fundies?

Sorry edited to add about their doctrinal position on repentance.

[themothership]

I wasn't aware his sister passed away. She had a baby girl. How sad.

[Mitz_]

John's sister is in the late stages of a terminal illness. His last Facebook post (that I can see) does not say that she has died. It is a very tragic thing for their family.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBPpv92J-8U

Here is a video of Rea giving a sermon in Africa. Sermon starts at 6:36. Rea is painfully awkward, nothing he says could possibly make much sense to these people, his sermon is not even cohesive. At one point he kind of shoves his translator out of his way, struts back and forth, pulls up what appears to be a very young girl who was sitting in the congregation while he was lecturing on "what do you want? Material goods, blah blah, A pocket full of worldly goods or God's glory while bringing a soul? " . WTF?

He comes off as kind of scary and aggressive when he is probably aiming for "enthusiastic". But really? Rea is yelling at them about wanting

worldly goods? Hell, these people are probably wondering where there next meal is coming from or where they are going to get clean water. I can't see him doing much "soul winning".

I was trying to be neutral about Rea, but the more I learn about him the less I find to admire.

And yes, John Shrader is married to Esther who is Anna Duggar's sister. The Duggar's are not very big on giving to the less fortunate and desperately needy either. In fact, they consider their show to be their ministry, their contribution and gift to society.

On the "team Zambia" site Rea pontificates on the well being of John's (and his?) children and the safety of Africa compared to the U.S. He goes on to contradict himself more times than I can count on that subject on just one page. Even what's left of team Zambia really sucks as far as I can tell.

http://rea.teamzambia.com/what-about-your-children/

[uber frau]

Has John ever spoken of the hipocracy in his belief that NOTHING in the way of needful things should be donated to his African "friends" because it would encourage dependency? That they should trust that The Lord will provide? Who is more dependent on donations than John? Why is anything given to him a "love offering" or the Lord's provision but any gift to an African would be a threat to his chance to exist independently?

This. Eleventy times this. Why is it all so bad and wrong when it's someone else (be they black, or white or freaking polka dots)., but it's all so good, godly and blessed when it's about John?

You disgust me John (and I'm a heathen).

[KittenMitten]

Maybe they did tell him to come home and he said no. He's smug enough that I could see that happening.

Why would a reputable sending church send a 'missionary' with so many small children in the first place. Do they not know any other missionaries, perhaps older ones with grown children? Was John the pick of the litter?

[formergothardite]

Oh I bet John loved it when David used his own words against him. He loved it just as much as Ken and Lori do. :lol: I think that was probably the beginning of the end for TeamZambia. David was starting to see John for who he really is and John is not going to tolerate anyone standing up to him and telling him he is wrong.

Interesting that in David's TameZambia video he makes it seem like it was his idea to go to Zambia first and John decided to join him. John has always implied that he had the vision first and David decided to join him. And yes, David is just as annoying as John, I just think he is less greedy and better at planning. I bet he is keeping that plane, though and John will never get to fly it.

[Gobsmacked]

Just a thought but is it possible that Johns fathers church has agreed to take over as sending church to keep John Out of the way?

Johns sister is very ill, the family will be supporting her and her husband with their baby daughter and possibly medical bills.

If John and his large family arrive back in America without a job to return to that would be a huge financial strain on his parents.

By becoming the supporting church the parishioners are supporting John and Esther leaving the family to support their own daughter.

Just a thought. :?

[apple1]

Why would a reputable sending church send a 'missionary' with so many small children in the first place. Do they not know any other missionaries, perhaps older ones with grown children? Was John the pick of the litter?

I was raised IFB, and also spent a number of adult years in IFB before breaking from it. (Aside - I now self-identify as Christian. Period.)

Disclaimer: All IFB churches I was ever in were/are probably considered "liberal" by the niche-fundies we frequently discuss on FJ.

Every IFB church that I was ever in - the people would have been courteous, but they would have passed on providing any support to any missionary that might have dragged in a whole line of kids like that. After the fact, there most likely would have been "gossip" along the lines of what-is-he-thinking. I will also say (since this conversation is going on elsewhere in FJ) that while the pastors would never have mentioned birth control from the pulpit, most members practically limited their families. 5 kids was considered an exception, a larger than usual family. And most of the members of these churches worked hard to keep their own families afloat.

Shrader MIGHT have been given a one-time "love offering" - after which he probably would have been discouraged from returning.

I have no familiarity with IFB churches that would encourage or support Shrader's antics.

[Mitz_]

Why would a reputable sending church send a 'missionary' with so many small children in the first place. Do they not know any other missionaries, perhaps older ones with grown children? Was John the pick of the litter?

I'm sure this has been answered before but I would like to know also. I realize that IFB embrace QF so that is what they want to teach on their missions (I guess) . I imagine it has something to do with the fact that God calls missionaries and lays stuff on their heart and who are we to argue if God calls someone who's quiver is bursting at the seams? Is there someone who knows and would like to offer a better explanation ? I'm really interested.

[apple1]

I'm sure this has been answered before but I would like to know also. I realize that IFB embrace QF...

Again, not the IFB that I know. There are, of course, exceptions - I believe the Duggars consider themselves IFB. But in my personal experience, that is exceptional (see my post above).

You have to keep in mind that IFB is not an over-arching national, nor even regional, denomination. The I (independent) means exactly that - each individual church is independent as far as any authority structure is concerned. Do (relatively small) groups of IFB churches associate with each other, and do they have common beliefs and common practices, etc? Yes. But QF is not, as such, an across-the-board IFB thing.

[socalrules]

Is it possible that the chuch dropped john before he left but he decided to go anyway and announce the news later so he wouldn't look more like a fool than he already did? I can see him going even if the church dropped him.

[Palimpsest]

Oh I bet John loved it when David used his own words against him. He loved it just as much as Ken and Lori do. :lol: I think that was probably the beginning of the end for TeamZambia. David was starting to see John for who he really is and John is not going to tolerate anyone standing up to him and telling him he is wrong.

Interesting that in David's TameZambia video he makes it seem like it was his idea to go to Zambia first and John decided to join him. John has always implied that he had the vision first and David decided to join him. And yes, David is just as annoying as John, I just think he is less greedy and better at planning. I bet he is keeping that plane, though and John will never get to fly it.

Yes, IMO David Rea is just as in need of stinging FJ criticism as John. Birds of a feather and all that. It is hilarious that they are both claiming to have got the "call to Zambia" first!

David seems more level-headed and less greedy than John, but as he doesn't fundraise on social media or have much of a web presence he has got away comparatively unscathed on FJ. So far. He is just as arrogant and unskilled, and was as culturally insensitive in Burundi as John. I notice with amusement that David edited his culture shock article on the comparative prices of food "staples" in Zambia/US after we made fun of all the processed foods he listed - and that he'd got all his percentages wrong!

If David really does have control of the plane - he can't fly it either so it will stay grounded. John was the one on Team Zambia taking flying lessons. I can just see the missionary fur flying over what happens to that stupid 15K plane.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if David has taken flying lessons since TeamZambia broke up. I could see him doing that and flying the plane just to spite John.

[KittenMitten]

I was raised IFB, and also spent a number of adult years in IFB before breaking from it. (Aside - I now self-identify as Christian. Period.)

Disclaimer: All IFB churches I was ever in were/are probably considered "liberal" by the niche-fundies we frequently discuss on FJ.

Every IFB church that I was ever in - the people would have been courteous, but they would have passed on providing any support to any missionary that might have dragged in a whole line of kids like that. After the fact, there most likely would have been "gossip" along the lines of what-is-he-thinking. I will also say (since this conversation is going on elsewhere in FJ) that while the pastors would never have mentioned birth control from the pulpit, most members practically limited their families. 5 kids was considered an exception, a larger than usual family. And most of the members of these churches worked hard to keep their own families afloat.

Shrader MIGHT have been given a one-time "love offering" - after which he probably would have been discouraged from returning.

I have no familiarity with IFB churches that would encourage or support Shrader's antics.

Thank you for explaining, apple. It just feels so irresponsible that a church would send this train wreck of a man, with his large family to Africa in the first place. Still learning the fundie families, but didn't Esther have difficult pregnancies? And no family nearby to help.

[Mitz_]

I wonder if David has taken flying lessons since TeamZambia broke up. I could see him doing that and flying the plane just to spite John.

Who else would have the plane besides David? I'm also still wondering if maybe they didn't get ripped off or there was a misunderstanding about how much the plane was being sold for because $15,000.00 for a $100,000.00 plane seems mighty generous especially since it was supposedly a missionary , as yet unnamed, that sold it to them. If John was planning on flying the plane then he would have ownership papers for it and the lack of a key wouldn't keep a rightful owner from accessing the plane in a legal manner, would it?

There was also the issue of some kind of further instruction or certification that John was required to get in order to fly the plane in Africa, maybe he failed or didn't attempt to get it. The possibilities are endless.

One thing very noticeable abot John is his lack of humility. He absolutely can not admit to a failure. Failures are a part of life, any successful person will tell you that. Im just amazed that so many people support him and can't see him for what he is. It's scary.

[Palimpsest]

If David swipes the plane from under John's nose and flies it himself that would be amazing.

Yes, the plane was purchased from a retiring missionary who could have absconded back to the US with the key. But why couldn't it be mailed back to John? I suspect that John is making the whole missing key story up to dodge awkward questions about the plane.

Tune in for the next episode of "As the Mission Crumbles": Where is the plane and who does it belong to? Will John ever find the key and fly again? Will David ever get to Zambia?

[countressrascal]

If David swipes the plane from under John's nose and flies it himself that would be amazing.

Yes, the plane was purchased from a retiring missionary who could have absconded back to the US with the key. But why couldn't it be mailed back to John? I suspect that John is making the whole missing key story up dodge awkward questions about the plane.

Tune in for the next episode of "As the Mission Crumbles": Where is the plane and who does it belong to? Will John ever find the key and fly again? Will David ever get to Zambia?

Sounds like the next TLC show-"Missionary Grudge Match-Fight for the Soulless" :cracking-up:

[thoughtful]

It is hilarious that they are both claiming to have got the "call to Zambia" first!

[salex]

I am convinced his mourning and sad sack posts of a couple/few weeks ago (cue sad baby pic) were related to the church dumping him ,and not about his sister.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Sorry to repeat myself but what are "position on doctrinal repentance" that caused the church to drop him?

[Mitz_]

The letter

Gosh, he doesn't say anything in that letter that has to do with anything about "why" or that anything happened or what caused anything that did or didn't happen except that, ya know...God decided.

[formergothardite]

Sounds like the next TLC show-"Missionary Grudge Match-Fight for the Soulless" :cracking-up:

I would watch that. :lol: