Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[Coco]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :lol:

well the delusion bit fits lol

[Trynn]

I've had people sign my bible before, but it was like... Not like a celebrity thin but just friends who I wanted to write me little note like how they loved me and were praying for me or a quote or something spiritual. It was more to let me know they loved me after I moved.

[salex]

They got a large, and nice, fridge and freezer. 2 things about the video. 1) John has lost his local accent :lol: and 2) while it is hard to hear Esther, and her voice is off sync with her picture, listening to her was very reminiscent of listening to Priscilla, including her eye movements, etc. Makes me think their mother must come across much the same.

I could only hear her with a headset, but it is definitely a family accent!

facebook.com/video.php?v=10203594658537257&set=vb.1539439108&type=2&theater

[gustava]

Wonder if they scammed a generator. They'll need one.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Wonder if they scammed a generator. They'll need one.

Think he will find it harder to scam now so many churches have dropped support.

I still remember that post he put up about how to support your missionary...don't ask questions and give lots of gifts was the gist of it ;O

[slickcat79]

Because some things need to be quoted.

Unknown to me, Esther had a little chat with her Heavenly Father.

She sweetly told God; "Lord, I don't want to be selfish, but You know the desires of my heart. I would really like to be able to have the stand up freezer that matches the refrigerator, but You know what we really need Lord, and if it's not Your Will I know You'll make it clear. Thank you that I can tell You my desires and know that Your perfect Will will be done."

He is so unbelievably tone deaf. He even mentions in the exact same entry that full-size appliances are very rare in that part of Zambia, but they have a washing machine, full stove/oven, and now a side-by-side fridge/freezer that's larger and nicer than anything I've ever had. They are probably better off than anyone else in Kafue, yet all John can talk about is their sacrifices. He even claimed that they couldn't afford to give Roderick's family (literal widow and orphans here) something as basic as food, but their prayers for a freezer to match their new fridge are answered via love offering.

He seems to routinely use Esther and the children as props to get handouts for stuff that he wants for their household. He also makes the point that it's hard to efficiently provide food for a family of 11 with a small mini-fridge, which I'm sure is valid. But that's why most families in sub-Saharan Africa aren't having QF-sized families if they can help it, and why governments and NGOs encourage people to limit family size for health and financial reasons. It's also hard for large Zambian families to provide for their children without appliances, but they don't have a network of churches in one of the richest countries in the world to provide for their every need and want. So how are they supposed to make it work? And how is John entitled to live better than everyone else in his community while doing jack-shit?

John also reiterates in this entry that the house they're living in is crap. Cinder block walls, crumbling cement floors, only half-completed ceilings, no appliances (obviously) and no running water. If I were the sending churches, I'd be pretty pissed off to hear that a missionary gave his landlady 6 months rent up front to finish this house, and it was never finished. John is either lying about what he's using money for, or he's an EXTREMELY poor steward of other people's donations. I'm sure people feel badly for Esther and the kids, but it'd be nice if they quit enabling John :|

[formergothardite]

So their God gives them wants(a matching stand up freezer) while letting Rodrick's family go without actual needs(food)? I wish ShraderFriend would come back to explain how this sort of a God is actually good. :angry-banghead: If John and Esther were truly living a life where they wanted to serve the people of Zambia and show them God's love they would sell the freezer, learn to live frugally without it, and use the money to buy food for those in need. But they both appear to be entirely too selfish to even think of that.

I think John lies about what he is using money for(doesn't seem like it is being used to help anyone but John) AND he is an extremely poor steward of other people's money.

I wonder if people in the community are quickly starting to resent John. Here is flounces in, tells them that they are worshipping God all wrong, and then lives better than the rest of them all while refusing to work. If my family was going without food while I watched someone like John get a matching freezer donated to him I would be very turned off by his version of God.

[memabelle]

To put words in John's mouth - if the people of Zambia were the proper type of Christian, God would take care of them, too.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - how can you be a missionary and not help with the physical needs of the people you say you're there to help?

[Mitz_]

Because some things need to be quoted.

He is so unbelievably tone deaf. He even mentions in the exact same entry that full-size appliances are very rare in that part of Zambia, but they have a washing machine, full stove/oven, and now a side-by-side fridge/freezer that's larger and nicer than anything I've ever had. They are probably better off than anyone else in Kafue, yet all John can talk about is their sacrifices. He even claimed that they couldn't afford to give Roderick's family (literal widow and orphans here) something as basic as food, but their prayers for a freezer to match their new fridge are answered via love offering.

He seems to routinely use Esther and the children as props to get handouts for stuff that he wants for their household. He also makes the point that it's hard to efficiently provide food for a family of 11 with a small mini-fridge, which I'm sure is valid. But that's why most families in sub-Saharan Africa aren't having QF-sized families if they can help it, and why governments and NGOs encourage people to limit family size for health and financial reasons. It's also hard for large Zambian families to provide for their children without appliances, but they don't have a network of churches in one of the richest countries in the world to provide for their every need and want. So how are they supposed to make it work? And how is John entitled to live better than everyone else in his community while doing jack-shit?

John also reiterates in this entry that the house they're living in is crap. Cinder block walls, crumbling cement floors, only half-completed ceilings, no appliances (obviously) and no running water. If I were the sending churches, I'd be pretty pissed off to hear that a missionary gave his landlady 6 months rent up front to finish this house, and it was never finished. John is either lying about what he's using money for, or he's an EXTREMELY poor steward of other people's donations. I'm sure people feel badly for Esther and the kids, but it'd be nice if they quit enabling John :|

So the part you put in quote is something that John actually wrote on Facebook or something? When I was reading it I thought that was just you or someone else's quote just being sarcastic and I'm still not sure...or I just can't wrap my brain around it. Did he really write that?

[Palimpsest]

Shraderfriend hasn't logged in since October but I expect he's still reading. Perhaps he is afraid to tell us that he now agrees with FJ that Shrader is an irresponsible dyed in the wool grifter.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Perhaps this hidden text will smoke him out. :twisted:

A few thoughts:

- That sounds like a direct quote from Shrader. It is exactly the way he writes.

- I don't think there is much doubt that the Shrader family is enjoying a much better standard of living in Zambia than they ever did in the US (even before the pop-up camper). God is so good.

- John also has a stockpile of enough gynecological/delivery supplies "to stock a hospital" in his own words. I doubt that they are sharing those needed supplies.

- A full-sized freezer and a refrigerator means stockpiling food even with 11 mouths to feed. Something tells me that the Shraders are probably still buying processed food from Walmart in Lusaka instead of shopping locally, cooking from scratch, or growing their own produce.

- Some of these gifts (washer/fridge/freezer) were probably donated out of pity for Esther and the children, although she obviously has no problem living with the spoils of John's grifting. "Poor, poor Esther having to follow that lunatic John to Zambia and live in such dreadful conditions." Hint to Shraderfriend: The donors would be better to send one-way tickets home for Esther and the children!

- More importantly, flaunting all these luxury goods in Zambia is not just selfish and in extremely bad taste, it is also potentially problematic. Some potential converts may be initially attracted to the prosperity gospel bit - but then angered when none of the lucre comes in their direction. Some "converts" may also be also simply be casing the joint and the Shraders may be burgled or robbed. Voddie Baucham's new employer, ACU in Lusaka, has been complaining that goods and materials are being liberated by locals from that "university campus."

[slickcat79]

So their God gives them wants(a matching stand up freezer) while letting Rodrick's family go without actual needs(food)? I wish ShraderFriend would come back to explain how this sort of a God is actually good. :angry-banghead: If John and Esther were truly living a life where they wanted to serve the people of Zambia and show them God's love they would sell the freezer, learn to live frugally without it, and use the money to buy food for those in need. But they both appear to be entirely too selfish to even think of that.

Well, Roderick's family are 7TH DAY ADVENTIST Christians, not BIBLICAL BAPTIST Christians, so obviously God doesn't listen to their prayers :roll:

So the part you put in quote is something that John actually wrote on Facebook or something? When I was reading it I thought that was just you or someone else's quote just being sarcastic and I'm still not sure...or I just can't wrap my brain around it. Did he really write that?

Yes, that is a direct quotation from John's FB. The rest of the entry is rather long, and more of the same. WOW! WOW! WOW!

More importantly, flaunting all these luxury goods in Zambia is not just selfish and in extremely bad taste, it is also potentially problematic. Some potential converts may be initially attracted to the prosperity gospel bit - but then angered when none of the lucre comes in their direction. Some "converts" may also be also simply be casing the joint and the Shraders may be burgled or robbed. Voddie Baucham's new employer, ACU in Lusaka, has been complaining that goods and materials are being liberated by locals from that "university campus."

Yes, also problematic. And John is SO hostile and dismissive toward pastors who preach/support a "prosperity gospel" or seem to be too greedy for material goods. I don't know how more people don't call him out.

[Howl]

One thing that stood out to me when reading ShraderFriend's initial posts had to do with his describing his very chaotic upbringing and from that background, being very careful and serious about providing for his family with a steady job and a backup employable skill should he ever lose his current job. In other words, he's serious about being a provider. Very different from John.

[lulumama]

I have a friend who is teaching in Lusaka at an International School. He has been robbed twice. Mind you my friend is an experienced international teacher who is careful and doesn't flaunt what he has, he mostly gets around by bike. He has been waiting for months for a truck delivery. I wonder how much bribe money John had to pay to get his truck liberated from customs? :pull-hair:

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

He still has team Zambia on his facebook page.

His pic of Charis talking about heavy hearts just seems to me so selfish. His sister is dying & most commenters seemed to think it was about her. But no, it was about him losing support ($$$)

[klavierspieler]

Oh my god. Is that what it's really like for missionaries? Treated like celebrities? Yeah no way is John going back to a used car salesman job again if he can help it.

Pretty much. When you grow up not being allowed to partake in pop culture (TV, movies, popular music, etc.) and being spoon fed stories about people like Adoniram Judson, William Carey, Hudson Taylor, Jim Elliot, and so on, then missionaries become your heroes. They are literally the rock stars of the fundie world. They're lauded and admired for giving up everything for God, and frankly the talk of traveling the world and experiencing different cultures and the pictures they always came in and showed gave the whole thing quite the exotic hue. I'm sure experience with pastors/missionaries signing Bibles varies from church to church, but it was pretty common in my experience and outright pushed at the particular church I grew up in. It usually wasn't "in" the Bible itself, as in where the text is, but in the couple of blank pages at the very front and back and whoever was signing was expected to include the reference to their "life verse." And at the types of church camps my church participated in (i.e., only with other extremely like-minded IFB churches), I remember comparing signatures with other campers to see which ones we shared and who had more, that kind of thing. Almost like trading baseball cards or something.

[countressrascal]

I go to Tanzania at least 3 times a year-there is no one who is working class that has a full size ref even majority of the clinics/hospitals do not have one. So John is very special and will be robbed or killed for them, that is the way it works there. I just hope the kids are not hurt.

[Miggy]

I go to Tanzania at least 3 times a year-there is no one who is working class that has a full size ref even majority of the clinics/hospitals do not have one. So John is very special and will be robbed or killed for them, that is the way it works there. I just hope the kids are not hurt.

Countessrascal, please help me out here ...

I would presume most people in this region of Africa would have a grain based diet and grain doesn't required refrigeration. Fruit and vege bought from local markets every few days so again, no refrigeration needed. Meat, I am guessing, wouldn't be a huge part of the diet. Fish would be eaten after it is caught or purchased. No idea if sheep, goat and cattle form much if the diet but if it does, I would guess that drying the meat would be popular so that again, the need for refrigeration would be limited.

Am I on the right track? I know very little about this part of Africa so this really is just the ideas I have picked up from documentaries and books. I'd love to know, from someone who has been there, just how far Johns expectations are above the social norm.

[Palimpsest]

Countessrascal, please help me out here ...

I would presume most people in this region of Africa would have a grain based diet and grain doesn't required refrigeration. Fruit and vege bought from local markets every few days so again, no refrigeration needed. Meat, I am guessing, wouldn't be a huge part of the diet. Fish would be eaten after it is caught or purchased. No idea if sheep, goat and cattle form much if the diet but if it does, I would guess that drying the meat would be popular so that again, the need for refrigeration would be limited.

Am I on the right track? I know very little about this part of Africa so this really is just the ideas I have picked up from documentaries and books. I'd love to know, from someone who has been there, just how far Johns expectations are above the social norm.

I'm not Countessrascal, but I can help you out. My family were missionaries in Zaire, Nigeria and Ethiopia. I've never been to Zambia but I've spent time in both Kenya and Tanzania and the basics haven't changed that much.

Yes, you are on the right track. The staple diet of most sub-Saharan Africa is maize (corn) porridge (think coarse yellow grits) supplemented by rice, potatoes and other local grains. Fruit and veg can be brought locally and the growing season is year round. Proteins are used as more as a sauce or condiment and include groundnuts (peanuts), mushrooms, meat (mostly chicken and goat because beef is a huge luxury), fish (fresh water fish in the inland areas - like tilapia) and some insects. Meats and fish are eaten as soon as possible after slaughter or dried. Also eggs, and some dairy but not as much as a western diet. Google food in Zambia for more information. :)

I certainly don't expect the Shraders to eat a Zambian diet exclusively but I do expect them to use common sense and modify their American diet a little to include local foods and norms. To say nothing of living more cheaply.

Probably most typical American processed foods are available in Zambia - at a price. Lusaka has a PriceRite, a Spar and a Walmart, and there will be any number of "Indian Groceries" in Kafue stocking canned and packaged goods. On the other hand, and presuming Esther cooks like Anna Duggar, cream of crap soups, canned peas, velveeta, mayo, catsup, most cheese, and packaged cake mixes are now luxury goods. The same for beef and pork (if they eat it). They will be able to buy locally packaged hamburger but I would seriously advise against it. No guarantees as to the quality and it will probably smell and taste like bleach.

Looking at my mother's old hand written recipe book and from memory, we ate a lot of groundnut stew, chicken, fish (both dried and fresh), occasionally goat, and many eggs, but took full advantage of local grains, vegetables and fruits. Bread and all desserts from scratch. Ice cream (condensed and evaporated milk plus sugar mixed and frozen) and jello were birthday treats. Of course, we did eat some imported and canned goods but not that often. Oh, I almost forgot: a stew and another vile baked wartime recipe concoction made from Spam as a protein. That wasn't often because my brother and I made vomit noises whenever it was served. Bad children.

Dairy is whole other issue, of course. I don't know whether milk is now safe to drink in Zambia, but we used margarine instead of butter, dried milk not fresh, and occasionally canned Kraft cheese as a "treat" (yuck on both the latter). Salad/lettuce was also risky because it has to be washed in many rinses of boiled or purified water. We ate mostly cooked vegetables and peeled fruit.

[salex]

Here is his take on local meat and why he doesn't eat it...

Cows in the Corolla: Beef, it's what for Dinner?!

Trying not to focus on the fact that some have a "beef" with us regarding our position on repentance, and trying to trust the Lord to not worry which "side" people come down on, and seeking to leave in the Lord's Hands a situation we can't make "heads or tails of," and if we're not careful will give us "intestinal" disturbance, we just say "let the flies land where they may!"

It was delivery day to the deli of the only actual "grocery store" in our town. The store is about the size of most gas station convenience stores in the US, and they gave me permission to get a "snap" of their beef delivery.

Notice the interesting method of transportation. Yes, that is the trunk of a Toyota Carolla! (Hey, at least they put some plastic down, ok?)

You are looking at two cows (they are for the most part smaller here), and you gotta love the tail hanging out in the second pic! (The old black cow she ain't what she used to be! I know, I know, the song was about a mare, but allow me some "artistic license," will ya?)

Nothing says getting your mind off a very serious situation like seeing two butchered cows being delivered in the "boot" (they use the English word instead of trunk) of a Carolla!

Seeing sights like this reminds me of a song a college friend of my dad used to sing, named Grady Tolland.

"My baloney has a first name, it's animal remains

Like noses, tails, and tongues and feet, and probably even chicken brains.

I love to eat it every day, and if you ask me why I'll say

'Cause Americans will eat about anything,

if you wrap it up just right!"

That's the thing about a third world country. They don't worry about dragging the cow out of the Corolla in broad daylight in the front of the store!

Anybody want some beef?

Thank you Lord for lightening our hearts.

p.s. FYI...when we do get some, we don't buy our beef here!!

It took a couple readings to figure out the friend was named Grady Tolland and not the song....

Hidden because raw butchered sides of beef in case people are squeamish

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

.

[formergothardite]

Could he be more annoying? I bet the people in Zambia will grow to hate him a great deal.

I imagine that John struts up to local grocery store, loudly complains that it is too small and doesn't have the food he likes, and then ask if he can take a picture of the beef delivery so he can go mock how Zambians get their food on FB.

[nokidsmom]

I suspect the people of Zambia already can't wait for him to pack up and leave.

[Palimpsest]

Yikes, Salex! Could you "Spoiler" those pictures of meat rather than Hide them for Members Only. They almost made me barf and I have a pretty high threshold for gross stuff!

Also, I totally love (love!) the copies from John's FB, but is it within the TOS as his FB is set to private? I thought we were meant to paraphrase only and wouldn't want you to get into hot water.

John's cultural insensitivity and general idiocy continues. I can't wait until he gets the boot from Zambia.

[gustava]

Sounds as if he has a bigger problem than "beef" and that's the "beef' that someone seems to have with him about "repentance." Sure wish we knew more.

[awinkandanod]

John must not have seen how animals are butchered in the states. It's a narly process wherever you go. :shock: Anyways, don't most missionaries live within their mission field when it comes to food and housing?

I have a feeling Johns excitement has gotten him into trouble. Maybe he has gone overboard on his repentance.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I suspect the people of Zambia already can't wait for him to pack up and leave.

Yeah. His cultural insensitivity is like a bad joke.

And it's not like he's helping them in any real way.

Medical, education, building etc not our John