Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[Mama Mia]

That is the perfect description of what John did. He was all about the missionary fantasy.

John was raised in ATI but has called Gothard a false teacher.

I was reading some of his old tweets that people posted here and at one point he claimed he bought his own vehicles, purchased a house and paid his own debts. I wonder how if family feels reading that knowing that they are the ones that bought him a van, paid off his house and paid off his debts. I think that John gets so caught up in his fantasy world that he forgets what really happened. I'm sure that in the future he will describe his time in Zambia as him trekking through the bush, fighting off wild animals, and saving souls by the hundreds.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

This guy reminds me SO much of my ex- brother in law! Not the same religious bent. But absolutely convinced of his spiritual superiority. Complete narcissistic scammer. Even made business cards one time that described his " gifts" of martial arts, dream analysis, spiritual guide, professional adventurer, IT expert and management consultant :shock: . Later diagnosed as bi-polar. Last time I heard he was trying to recruit people to live on some spiritual wilderness compound he would run. Of course his converts would have to actually buy the land. When he describes his life it has zero to do with reality.

[thoughtful]

Thoughtful, you definitely helped with my post rabbit hole rehab!! :lol:

Glad to know that Alfred, Cary, Bob Coe (the pilot) and I could help.

[Mitz_]

Would someone explain to me....in simple terms....what Grifter-Schrader has done that got him cut off by the sending church?

The way I read it Shrader is saying that the TEAM parted ways, God told him that his father's church should be the sending authority and since there is no longer a team this works out for the best since Tyree had concerns about financing two families to Africa. He doesn't say that the sending church dumped him but it seems very likely that they did. Either that or his father's church was just SO EXCITED to foot John's bills they couldn't contain themselves.

[Justme]

I just can't see a reputable sending church dropping a missionary who is oversea's. Especially one with so many small children. If they had a disagreement, I could see them telling him/her to come home. I just can't see them stranding someone. John must have done something really bad to get caught with his pants down around his knees.... :shock:

[Bethella]

I just can't see a reputable sending church dropping a missionary who is oversea's. Especially one with so many small children. If they had a disagreement, I could see them telling him/her to come home. I just can't see them stranding someone. John must have done something really bad to get caught with his pants down around his knees.... :shock:

Maybe they did tell him to come home and he said no. He's smug enough that I could see that happening.

[Mitz_]

Rea refers to the plane as something that "we" (the team) acquired , I wonder what will happen with this plane and other things that have been acquired for "the team" ?

Does John ever mention finishing his pilot's licence? I just read somewhere that he was "advised" to finish his training before he left the U.S.. Maybe he didn't and that's why there has been no mention of it.

http://gibmission.org/2013/06/11/the-re ... arch-2013/

[formergothardite]

Maybe they did tell him to come home and he said no. He's smug enough that I could see that happening.

ITA. I suspect that they tried to work with him and only dropped him as a last resort. They were probably hoping that would force him to come home, but he got his daddy to rush in and save him. :angry-banghead:

[Meeka]

News about the plane!

Someone asked him in a comment about the CH801. I googled it and a CH801 is a small airplane. John comments back that a missionary who has it has kept delaying his return to Zambia and he has the key to where it's locked up up, bamboozled by a lock and apparently a person needs to go all the way back to Africa to open a lock.

[Mitz_]

News about the plane!

Someone asked him in a comment about the CH801. I googled it and a CH801 is a small airplane. John comments back that a missionary who has it has kept delaying his return to Zambia and he has the key to where it's locked up up, bamboozled by a lock and apparently a person needs to go all the way back to Africa to open a lock.

If we are taking bets for who that missionary is, put me down for Rea. And John is full of shit. Put me down for that too.

[formergothardite]

News about the plane!

Someone asked him in a comment about the CH801. I googled it and a CH801 is a small airplane. John comments back that a missionary who has it has kept delaying his return to Zambia and he has the key to where it's locked up up, bamboozled by a lock and apparently a person needs to go all the way back to Africa to open a lock.

:lol: Come on John! I was expecting a better story than that. :snooty: How much you want to bet that the missionary decides to never return to Zambia so John is never able to use the plane?

[uber frau]

:lol: And the dog ate his homework.

Come on John, isn't lying supposed to be a sin?

[slickcat79]

That is the lamest fucking excuse I have ever heard.

Who pays $15K for something and then lets someone else keep it locked up for months? Are there no locksmiths in the greater Lusaka area?

He's only barely trained as a pilot to begin with, and now it's been at least 8 months since he even sat in a cockpit. So stupid.

[SPHASH]

To be quite honest I predicted John would get arrested and sent to jail for something ala Pastor Saeed before he ran out of money.

[Ellimenopy]

To be quite honest I predicted John would get arrested and sent to jail for something ala Pastor Saeed before he ran out of money.

Y'all are all more optimistic than me; I felt sure he would have been beaten and robbed by now for wandering off somewhere rough by himself and mouthing off.

[Mitz_]

That is the lamest fucking excuse I have ever heard.

Who pays $15K for something and then lets someone else keep it locked up for months? Are there no locksmiths in the greater Lusaka area?

He's only barely trained as a pilot to begin with, and now it's been at least 8 months since he even sat in a cockpit. So stupid.

Well John didn't pay for it, wasting someone else's money is easy. It's that money you bust your ass for that you want to be careful with.

It sounds like John has simply lost interest in the plane and flying. This is his pattern, no?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Well John didn't pay for it, wasting someone else's money is easy. It's that money you bust your ass for that you want to be careful with.

It sounds like John has simply lost interest in the plane and flying. This is his pattern, no?

I think you've called it.

How long will this missionary fancy keep him happy? I actually think quite a while as he must love how people look up to him as a missionary in a way they didn't when he was a job type person.

Hmmm....what do others think? It's not like he has an illustrious career or life to go back to in the US

[formergothardite]

I think he will stay there as long as he can. He doesn't have to get a job as long as he is a missionary, no matter how bad he is doing on the mission field. Eventually daddy's church will get tired of supporting his lazy ass and daddy will make him stop playing missionary and come home.

[Johanna25]

I wonder if perhaps the ownership papers are in the name of Team Zambia and Rea is holding on to the keys. Since Shrader is off the team, he can't claim it.

Edited to say, I see you already brought up that possibility, Mitz_. I think that is really the most likely scenario. Can't wait for the battle of the plane.

[Palimpsest]

I'm going to go the other direction in the works vs grace dispute.

My bet is that Shrader is accusing the Sending church as being works based. As in they wanted him to show some examples of actual work he has accomplished. Instead of simply accepting that grace is enough and everything he does is just peachy-keen.

You could well be right. On in that newsletter John clarifies that "we do not believe in Lordship Salvation." OTOH he pretty much has to say that in order to keep in line with the IFB churches supporting him. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for the conversation between Shrader and Tyree because the conversation could have gone either way.

One thing I'm sure about with John: he has major problems with all earthly authority because of his direct line to God. Whether that has to do with undiagnosed Bipolar Disorder or not, no-one gets to tell John what to do.

[Palimpsest]

The way I read it Shrader is saying that the TEAM parted ways, God told him that his father's church should be the sending authority and since there is no longer a team this works out for the best since Tyree had concerns about financing two families to Africa. He doesn't say that the sending church dumped him but it seems very likely that they did. Either that or his father's church was just SO EXCITED to foot John's bills they couldn't contain themselves.

John is really good at spinning stories to his own advantage. It is hard to prove he is lying but he is a genius at misrepresenting the truth. You can't take anything that he says at face value and it takes an experienced reader to see through the bullshit. He is treading carefully here because Valley Baptist could go public on exactly why they dumped him. Yeah, I've been following John for way too long.

Interestingly, I think there have been Troubles in Toyland with Team Zambia for a while. I've suspected that not all was well between Shrader and Rea for months now -- well before he left for Zambia. The first tip-off was a FB spat in September 2013 (after Burundi) when Rea slapped John down and John self-flagellated. A couple of months later God mysteriously "directed" Shrader to go to Kafue instead of Kafulafuta (as originally planned) and John stopped mentioning Rea on FB. Prior to that he sang Rea's praises all the time. I've been wondering about Rea for a while.

I'm sure John has proven very expensive with his constant demands for money so Valley Baptist may well have decided it couldn't afford to be the sending church for both Rea and Shrader. However, in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to ask Rea (not yet in Zambia) to get another sending church rather than make John find one? Very suspicious, unless there has been a big disagreement with John.

It takes John all the way to the middle of the 4th paragraph of the latest newsletter to hide break the news that he is no longer on Team Zambia at all. He got that in just before his name was scrubbed from TeanZambia.com. No explanation given at all on the TeamZambia site - not even a polite sentence wishing John Shrader well in his mission to Kafue and a link to his new sending church. Very fishy.

That is way different from a member of TeamZambia voluntarily switching Sending Churches out of the goodness of his little missionary heart. John was dumped, by Team Zambia and by Valley Baptist, however he tries to spin it.

ETA. Does this mean that John has to edit all his videos to get rid of the "Team Zambia Productions" logo. :twisted:

[memabelle]

I just will never understand missionaries whose only purpose is "winning souls." Even if you don't believe in salvation based on doing good works, as a good PERSON not even as a Christian, wouldn't you want to help people in need if you were in a position to do so? Wouldn't you want to set the example for the people you're trying to "convert" (I put that in quotations since you can't convert people from Christianity to Christianity, no matter what John or any of these types think) that you care about them as people and about their well-being? Wouldn't that convince more people to be saved? Maybe that's just my Catholic upbringing speaking - the Catholics get a lot wrong but at least they try to better the lives of the people they're trying to convert.

[Palimpsest]

If we are taking bets for who that missionary is, put me down for Rea. And John is full of shit. Put me down for that too.

Hervé Villechaize voice: "The plane! The plane!"

Ever heard of a locksmith, John?

Someone asked: Yes, John did pass his exams and get his pilot's license in the US before he left. He still needs to get a flight permit in Zambia and find mechanics to check over the plane before he takes off on it.

If the plane, according to Rea's Jan - March 2013 (2 years ago) newsletter, is located an hour away from Kafulafuto I wonder how far that is from Kafue?

[Jezebel]

Okay, I'm finally caught up on Johnny-boy's African antics again.

Wow. I suspected things would go to shit in short order, but I didn't expect his sending church to drop him so quickly. He's been so irresponsible, so greedy, and so grandiose in his plans for so long, and yet they only figured out that he's an impulsive, incompetent, self-serving windbag once he and his wife, and 9 kids were in Africa?

So much for "discernment."

That said, I don't believe he's Bipolar. I do have him pegged as a Narcissist, because he's got so many of the traits: grandiosity; feelings of exemption from legal and social norms; a self-identity that elevates him above other people; shamelessly using others as either resources, or as props to hold up the image he wants to convey; his wants are needs, while others' needs are wants; a persistent pattern of dishonesty (be it bending the truth or outright lying); always turning any questioning of his actions and motives back on the questioner, without answering them; giving as few clear, unambiguous answers to questions as possible; big plans that he fails to follow through on; impulsivity; inability to handle criticism or failure; lack of proper boundaries; the need to be right, in control, and in the position of power at all times; playing constant, competitive one-upmanship games (including with fellow missionaries, I see); throwing tantrums when called out on his bullshit; engaging in emotional manipulation to get what he wants; and a deep resentment of any external authority--while simultaneously bowing and scraping and kissing its ass when it suits his purposes.

But mostly, it's all about him. He may mention his wife and children, but he never discusses how difficult things are for them, or what they may be feeling in any depth--because those issues simply don't exist, in his mind. His sister's struggle against cancer, and her tragic early death, refer right back to him, his plans, what he's doing. If others do have problems, the solution will always be whatever it takes that will allow him to reinforce his image and keep doing exactly what he wants to do--he will not give anything up, set aside his plans, or make special accommodations for anyone else, except as a tool to get him what he wants.

As for the "manic" behavior, that's incredibly common among Narcissists, even without comorbid Bipolar. My father was a Narcissist, and he'd have "highs" that usually lasted only a few days or weeks, but could go on for months--until he experienced some deep humiliation or failure that he couldn't overcome by flying into a rage, humiliating someone else, or pushing the blame off onto others. Then he'd retreat into one of his silent, sulking "depressions," basically to lick his wounds. During those periods, he was rude, prickly, and would bully me with blunt questions about my life--because if he could get a rise out of me, throw me off balance, and put me in a defensive position he could feel powerful and in control again.

Eventually he'd come up out of his depression and seem like a normal, reasonable, even decent person for a little while--and then something would push his hot buttons and get him all revved up and manic again. But this was all part of the cycles of getting and losing what's called "narcissistic supply" from other people; he was not Bipolar. And I don't believe John Shrader is, either.

So--how has John, as a Narcissist, managed to stay in the "high" phase for so long? A couple of things come to my mind:

He's been in near-constant motion, not staying in any one place for too long. If he had, people might have started to challenge him and ask questions. So he always had a new audience willing to hear of his grandiose plans, and new people willing to give him things he believed he deserved, and in his chosen roles as father to a full quiver and missionary to Africa he was set apart from the rest of any congregation he visited. He was a supplicant, seeking funds--but at the same time, he was off to do the Lord's work, saving souls in Africa, so he wasn't just some run-of-the-mill homeless, jobless beggar with more kids than he could afford.

Whatever people chose to give him wasn't charity; it was his due because he was doing God's work. And as much of a dolt as he may come across to us, Narcissists can be extremely charming and charismatic in person, and when telling their favorite version of their own story, they can really come alive and sweep others along with their enthusiasm. So he was special, and treated as such, and that's like catnip to a Narcissist.

And that he believes God is on his side, and that he's been specially called to impregnate his wife (read: duplicate himself) as often as possible and then take his entire family to Africa (at the risk of losing any or all of his duplicates children, or his constantly-reproducing wife), where he can be the White Savior to poor, ignorant blacks who will of course recognize his superiority and spiritual wisdom--that is the kind of self-centered, grandiose, triumphalist fantasy that Narcissists live for.

And if any of his family members die, he'll point to their deaths and talk about the sacrifices HE is willing to make so that HE can do God's work, so send HIM a love offering to make that possible. Because that's what Narcissists do.

As this all comes crashing down, he'll cling to the idea of his own godliness. Magical thinking is another Narcissistic trait, so if he can keep himself believing that he's been personally appointed by God to save Zambia, and that he's fighting a spiritual war against his naysayers, he may continue to stay in this manic high phase, even as things get dire.

[Mitz_]

John is really good at spinning stories to his own advantage. It is hard to prove he is lying but he is a genius at misrepresenting the truth. You can't take anything that he says at face value and it takes an experienced reader to see through the bullshit. He is treading carefully here because Valley Baptist could go public on exactly why they dumped him. Yeah, I've been following John for way too long.

Interestingly, I think there have been Troubles in Toyland with Team Zambia for a while. I've suspected that not all was well between Shrader and Rea for months now -- well before he left for Zambia. The first tip-off was a FB spat in September 2013 (after Burundi) when Rea slapped John down and John self-flagellated. A couple of months later God mysteriously "directed" Shrader to go to Kafue instead of Kafulafuta (as originally planned) and John stopped mentioning Rea on FB. Prior to that he sang Rea's praises all the time. I've been wondering about Rea for a while.

I'm sure John has proven very expensive with his constant demands for money so Valley Baptist may well have decided it couldn't afford to be the sending church for both Rea and Shrader. However, in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to ask Rea (not yet in Zambia) to get another sending church rather than make John find one? Very suspicious, unless there has been a big disagreement with John.

It takes John all the way to the middle of the 4th paragraph of the latest newsletter to hide break the news that he is no longer on Team Zambia at all. He got that in just before his name was scrubbed from TeanZambia.com. No explanation given at all on the TeamZambia site - not even a polite sentence wishing John Shrader well in his mission to Kafue and a link to his new sending church. Very fishy.

That is way different from a member of TeamZambia voluntarily switching Sending Churches out of the goodness of his little missionary heart. John was dumped, by Team Zambia and by Valley Baptist, however he tries to spin it.

ETA. Does this mean that John has to edit all his videos to get rid of the "Team Zambia Productions" logo. :twisted:

I don't think John is lying unless lies of omission count . Oh wait, that does count. Look at his statement "another pastor has criticized me for walking with The Lord ". Don't you just get the feeling that he is leaving out some details there? I am amazed that the leg humpers on Facebook don't call him out. No one challenged him about the plane and the missing key story? Unbelievable. Master of deceit sums it up nicely. I think you are right , this has been brewing for a long time and there is a lot being hidden, left out, unspoken and just plain misrepresented to suit John.

What was the spat in September 2013 about? I can't see all of the content on Facebook.

[Palimpsest]

I don't think John is lying unless lies of omission count . Oh wait, that does count. Look at his statement "another pastor has criticized me for walking with The Lord ". Don't you just get the feeling that he is leaving out some details there? I am amazed that the leg humpers on Facebook don't call him out. No one challenged him about the plane and the missing key story? Unbelievable. Master of deceit sums it up nicely. I think you are right , this has been brewing for a long time and there is a lot being hidden, left out, unspoken and just plain misrepresented to suit John.

What was the spat in September 2013 about? I can't see all of the content on Facebook.

Seriously. John is brilliant at leaving out details. He spins better than the press offices of most US presidents. I think he deletes or ignores anyone who calls him out on Facebook -- until he has manufactured the right spin.

The spat on FB was when it was still public, I could see it, and C & P on FJ of public FB was (is still) allowed. John went private at some point but I refuse to try to "friend" him. Unless you have friended him you can't see the old FB posts.

I searched through the archives to refresh my memory though. Here you go:

viewtopic.php?f=132&t=18815&start=120

Scroll down about 3/4 of the page to find my post with the date.

And today David Rea has apparently told him off.

Are there cracks in the Rea and Shrader love fest, I wonder?

Perhaps I called it back then. :lol: