Ben Living With the Duggars - MERGE

[EmmieJ]

Maybe that's what JB wants...SIL's who work for him and live on his compound so he is the one who stays in control and calls the shots. Hard to go against their teachings if you are living in their houses, on their land and they are paying your bills.

I think that's exactly what JB wants ---- to remain in control. He is, at heart, an extremely insecure man. That's why he has to constantly tell everybody how many children he's fathered. I think he does love his children (or at least, he shows them some affection and seems to be about their same maturity level, so he enjoys being goofy and doing fun stuff with them). But he definitely wants to be in control, and especially with the financial end of things.

That's why Ben Seewald is considered an acceptable suitor - so easy to control (at this point). Derick, soft spoken, mild-mannered Derick -- easy to control through Jill. If Jill wants him to do something, Derick is very likely to happily comply.

However, given time and maturity, I hope both men will realize that they don't want to be living under JB's rule, and would prefer to be real adults instead.

[grandmadugger]

Benessa are the worst possible advert for courtship imaginable.

In the real world they would have dated, had a few months of crazy sex, come to their senses, seen they were completely incompatible and gone their separate ways. No harm done, lessons learned.

In fundie world they are so blinded by their lust, and so constrained by ridiculous notions of purity that put virginity before happiness or anything else, that they are doomed to a lifetime of misery together once the initial physical thrill has worn off.

So in a way this is a great message to get across to the general public. Courtship is a lousy system for choosing a mate. There is no fairytale just because you stay "pure". I'm sure it's obvious to most viewers that Benessa are NOT a match made in heaven, and that the courtship system is dong them no favours at all.

Poor kids.

They could have remained virgins and still figured out they weren't a good fit. Two real dates and Jessa would have wanted to pop his head off of his shoulders. If they were allowed to spend any quality time together they would figure out how ill suited they are for each other.

[Hooligan]

They could have remained virgins and still figured out they weren't a good fit. Two real dates and Jessa would have wanted to pop his head off of his shoulders. If they were allowed to spend any quality time together they would figure out how ill suited they are for each other.

She was about ready to punch him when he was watching her make a pie crust. Bin strikes me as a sort of Eddie Haskle. He could appear mature for a short time till he got approval to court Jessa. Sadly once Boob approved Bin on TV there was little hope for Jessa. Boob would never admit he was wrong. Does anyone else wonder if Boob thought Bin was older than he is when this started?

[antwan]

You think Ben's parents have common sense?? :pink-shock:

This is a quote off of Michael Seewalds blog (seewalds.com)

"That is, without the existence of a holy, transcendent God who created all things, people have no basis at all for making moral judgments."

Ben was raised by a man who believes that morality exists only within the confines of Christianity. Common sense is not strong with this one...

That statement has multiple layers of conviction, not just "within the confines of Christianity." It does not prove that Ben or his parents lack common sense (I mean, Ben doesn't seem to have a fair share, for sure, but there are much stronger arguements for his lack of, than the above quote from his dad.)

[JenniferJuniper]

Ben most likely moved in with the Duggars because his distance from the compound was creating logistical problems for the taping of the show. And a cupboard in the loft of a storage unit is cheaper than a hotel.

I think the Duggars do have better accommodations in an actual guest house somewhere on the property. Maybe he's moved in to that now, assuming the Hartanos (sp?) have moved on.

I am fascinated by the fact that the Jillards are getting to live in that very nice home. You could see the look on Josh's face when he walked in(the scene may have been staged, but he still looked genuinely irritated). Where will be Ben and Jessa end up? If it's a "tiny" 950 square foot house, how will Jessa deal with the appearance of favoritism? Talk about a way to cause strife among siblings.

Joy was downright joyful when she said she didn't think it was unfair that Josh and Anna had to live in a little house while Derek and Jill end up in a beautiful three level place. And when she said she enjoyed ordering boys around. There's hope for that lass.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I've been seeing lots of speculation that Jim Bob wanted to move Ben in so he could keep him under his thumb because JB realized the relationship was a mistake and Ben and Jessa couldn't break up on camera without hurting the Duggar brand. I was wondering, do we know for certain that Jim Bob thinks he made the wrong choice by approving their courtship? :think:

It's true that the courtship and engagement have gone on longer than Jill and Derick's did, but I get the impression that if Jim Bob feels he messed up anywhere, it was by approving Derick. Not because JB dislikes him (he clearly did/does), but because Derick isn't as malleable as Ben, and Jim Bob feels threatened by that. Ben is college educated and he works hard at a job that isn't associated with Duggar industries - he doesn't need Jim Bob's money or house to support Jill and Jilly Bean. They are living in a house on the Duggar property right now, but that could change at any time and they could pick up and leave. I get the impression that they are only there now because Jill still wants to see her family regularly, at least the littles she has buddied with, and Derick is respectful of her feelings.

If anything, I think that because Jim Bob craves control, he's more likely to allow guys like Ben to enter into courtships with his daughters so long as JB can continue to call the shots. JB clearly enjoyed trying to control the conversation about getting Ben to move in with his family ont he most recent episode. No more assertive, educated young men like Derick for his daughters!

And JenniferJuniper, I agree about Ben being there in order to make filming easier. But about when Joy said she didn't think it was unfair that Josh and Anna didn't get to live in the big house when they married, didn't she also say that the house wasn't finished at the time, so technically nobody could have lived there? Either that or that J and A were already in DC, I can't remember.

[BeaSnarky]

The Duggars had not purchased the home when Josh and Anna got married. They have only owned it two years.

[thepinkleprechaun]

In regards to Ben and Jessa being engaged even though he has no real way to support them and really nothing going for him, if you read Lori Alexander's blog "Always Learning" she makes it abundantly clear that you do NOT have to be financially stable in any way before marriage and children. You should marry as soon as possible so you can have righteous sex and make babies for the Lord's army and just live frugally until you can get your shit together. Waiting for marriage and/or babies is for liberal heathens only.

[Rescinded and Mended]

The Duggars had not purchased the home when Josh and Anna got married. They have only owned it two years.

Oh, okay. I couldn't remember what Joy said, but whatever it was about the house made me think that Josh and Anna weren't being slighted, it just wasn't available to them yet. Thanks.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think its ironic that fundies talk about how dating is just based on sex, but then they are marrying just for the sex too. And at least if you date for sex, you might realise you made a mistake and not sleep with that person again, but with courtship, the first time you get the sex, you might realise that sex was all you wanted and you are not compatible and could never make the marriage work.

Also Jimbob and Michelle have pretty much taught Jessa that her sexual feelings equal love, and that the only thing that is inside that counts, is what is inside their pants. They claim to be teaching purity, but if Jessa had grown up in a normal home, she would have learnt the difference between wanting someone sexually, and falling in love with someone and wanting a long term relationship. Sure, the first few times, she likely would have wanted to date someone because they are super hot and felt lustful towards them, but by the time she got old enough to be thinking of more committed relationships, she would know the difference and not have ended up engaged to a manboy who lives in her dad's shed. I don't think Jessa loves Ben, she wants to sleep with him, but she doesn't know the difference. I bet in a few years, once the horniness has dropped off and she has to live with him, her marriage will be unhappy. I don't think she knows what it is like to be in love with someone-and she likely never will (or will feel extremely guilty when she develops a crush on someone more compatible as for fundies, fantasies are as bad as real life).

I was the same growing up. I am not an emotional person. I dated once in high school, and I did have somewhat feelings, but it was mainly because I was excited because nobody had ever noticed me before (If I had been sexually interested, I would have probably wanted sex, but I am pretty much asexual until I fall in love with someone). But it didn't last. I then experienced actual love for the first time when I was about 18, with someone the complete opposite to him. Good job I wasn't a fundie. He is nowhere near what I look for in a partner. For a start, I am a lesbian.

[HarryPotterFan]

Oh, okay. I couldn't remember what Joy said, but whatever it was about the house made me think that Josh and Anna weren't being slighted, it just wasn't available to them yet. Thanks.

She also said it was Josh and Anna's fault for not waiting to get married.

[Hooligan]

From Jessa's Instagram "jessaseewaldWe are all undeserving, ill-deserving, hell-deserving sinners. "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise...[we] are all under sin; As it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE." (Romans 3:9&10) We are all sinners. EVERY ONE OF US. God's standard of "good" is high, and we have all broken His law. Lying, stealing, adultery, covetousness, ungratefulness... and the list goes on. Some erroneously think that salvation can be earned. "I'll just do more good deeds," says one man. But his is a false hope. We are not saved from God's just judgement on the basis of our good outweighing our bad. No amount of good works can erase our sin record and gain us entrance into heaven. But there IS hope! The Bible tells us "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST DIED FOR US." (Romans 5:8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) Mankind is saved from judgement and hell only one way-- through faith in Jesus. "Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.'" Jesus lived a sinless life. He kept God's law perfectly. And as a result, he is the only truly "good person" to have ever walked the face of this earth. And through his death on the cross, he bore the wrath of God on behalf of sinful men. God is MERCIFUL and He will save to the uttermost those who come to Him through faith in Jesus. He takes our record of sin and wrong, and replaces it with the perfect, sinless record of His Son [Jesus]. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16)"

Looks like Bin living so close has has some effect, she is taking her future Headship's lead. :roll:

Edited because I am inept.

[BeaSnarky]

She also said it was Josh and Anna's fault for not waiting to get married.

Joy is getting up there in her snark. I love it. Not nearly as good as the James eye roll when told that Ben thinks Jessa is SOOO Talented...but excellent nonetheless.

[JenniferJuniper]

Joy is getting up there in her snark. I love it. Not nearly as good as the James eye roll when told that Ben thinks Jessa is SOOO Talented...but excellent nonetheless.

Joy just looked like she was loving the fact that the Josh Duggars might've been a wee bit jealous. She and James are currently my two faves, probably because they seem like normal teens. And because Joy likes bossing guys around.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Joy is cool :)

I think the kids, although kinda bratty as a whole, are alright people except for the awful beliefs. I like that they seem to have grown up into relatively normal people instead of the robotic kids they were at first.

[thepinkleprechaun]

I think the fact that they have semi normal personalities for the most part (aside from the fundie beliefs inherited from their parents) is largely due to the show and the wide ranges of experience with other people and cultures, traveling, etc, that they would never in a million years have gotten to do if they weren't TLC famous.

[FJismyheadship]

So what are the odds that out of eight current adults and five teens that NONE of these kids has ever snuck out, never done something forbidden, never rebelled against their parents, etc? I mean REALLY? I might go so far as to ask what the odds are that none of them have ever had sex, but that seems more likely to be true (although... Ben has been on the compound since May... a lot can happen in such a short amount of time)

Are the remaining five adults going to be chaperoned when they are courting? Will one of them buck the system?

[Toothfairy]

So what are the odds that out of eight current adults and five teens that NONE of these kids has ever snuck out, never done something forbidden, never rebelled against their parents, etc? I mean REALLY? I might go so far as to ask what the odds are that none of them have ever had sex, but that seems more likely to be true (although... Ben has been on the compound since May... a lot can happen in such a short amount of time)

Are the remaining five adults going to be chaperoned when they are courting? Will one of them buck the system?

If any other Duggars court, they should say on camera that they will kiss, hold hands, and go out alone.

I do think some of the kids do things their parents don't know about. With only two parents who don't even raise their own children, Michelle and JB can't keep up with everything

[nst]

If any other Duggars court, they should say on camera that they will kiss, hold hands, and go out alone.

I do think some of the kids do things their parents don't know about. With only two parents who don't even raise their own children, Michelle and JB can't keep up with everything

Michelle be will be like 70 by the time Josie is what 20 so I bet Josie will be having sex in front of them and nothing will be said -- HA

[HarryPotterFan]

If any other Duggars court, they should say on camera that they will kiss, hold hands, and go out alone.

I do think some of the kids do things their parents don't know about. With only two parents who don't even raise their own children, Michelle and JB can't keep up with everything

I'd love that. And then they can say that they are strong enough in their beliefs about waiting to have sex until marriage that they don't need a chaperone. And that they will not give into temptation, because they have self-control and learned to be accountable for their actions.

[Coconut Flan]

I'd put money down that John David and Joseph have done as pleased many times.

[FJismyheadship]

I posed a similar question on Duggar tumblr... damn she really thinks they can do no wrong. She just can't possibly ever see the Duggar children rebelling! No way! Another poster pointed out that its a developmental milestone in teenagers (and toddlers) and she was all sure, they probably had issues when the kids were little, but theres just no way those sweet little Duggar kids would EVER go against their parents wishes! No way would they EVER talk back to their parents!

Ok I paraphrased. Still.