Another one bites the dust- Daniel Lockwood MERGE

[Burpies]

I keep playing this scenario over in my head & I just can't fathom how a same-sex affair is likely. I think about how the church I grew up in, or sister churches, would have responded & it definitely wouldn't have been this hush-hush & they wouldn't offer a 3 month stipend since this would have been a huge deal-breaker.

They all fully believed in public humiliation, if for nothing more than to use you as an example to everyone, so they would have required he & Janey both (since she clearly did *something* wrong to cause him to stray) be very forthcoming in their goodbye post. Then he would have been virtually wiped off the face of the planet & nobody would ever hear another word from him or his wife.

Had it been an affair with a woman, it would have been treated much the same way except the stipend would have been offered & he would have just been moved to another mission field with a slap on the wrist.

I still think that this had something to do with stealing or some other sort of financial dishonesty.

peacelovecoffee, thank you for that insight! Having never grown up around or attended churches like this I am unaware of the shaming politics that would be in play behind the scenes in the case of a fallen minister. I am only aware of the same things the general public are aware of, so thank you so much!

[thekate]

Why would he have to give up his American? He can have dual citizenship. My children have US and New Zealand and off their NZ address they have Irish.

Also, just because someone is born in another country, that does not guarantee citizenship. It depends on the naturalization laws of the host country. Mexico allows citizenship by birth, but other countries do not necessarily guarantee. In Germany, parents have to have a residency permit or to have resided in Germany for eight years. US military usually don't qualify. In Mexico, just like the US, the baby can just drop out of you at the airport!

Some countries don't allow dual citizenship. Sounds like Germany is one of those, your experience in NZ notwithstanding.

[peacelovecoffee]

I don't think is stealing or other sort of financial dishonesty. Jaynee wouldn't be praying for the healing of her marriage if he hadn't been unfaithful to her. Whether it was with a male or female, young or his age or older, I'm pretty sure it was some kind of an affair. Emotional, physical, whether it resulted in a pregnancy -- we may never know -- but if it were "just" a money issue, they'd probably slap him on the hand, make him pay restitution, and relocate him.

You're right. I forgot about her saying that so it does debunk my theory.

[Trynn]

Also, I grew up conservative Christian... The term "moral failure" or "moral fall" was never ever EVER applied to anything NOT sexual. You heard the term moral failure and you knew what it meant.

It's what people do when they want to talk about it while pretending to keep specifics confidential, but everyone over the age of puberty knows what they're taking about. People might as well just say it.

[nelliebelle1197]

Some countries don't allow dual citizenship. Sounds like Germany is one of those, your experience in NZ notwithstanding.

No, it is not. My long-term ex was dual US/German. In fact, Germany will even give dual nationals permits to join another country's military, which is unusual.

[WonderingInWA]

Well, they've got photos up on the blog of their new home. It appears they are all moved in. It actually looks like it might be a tiny bit bigger than the one in Mexico. The master bedroom looks like a closet, though. Not much commentary on the blog, just a few photos. Hopefully she will come back later and tell more about where they are, the house, why the kids are holding fish, etc.

[NurseNell]

No, it is not. My long-term ex was dual US/German. In fact, Germany will even give dual nationals permits to join another country's military, which is unusual.

Every country is different. My sons are Colombian by birth. They were adopted by us, American citizens. They were considered Colombian citizens their first few years living here, we had to register them each year as aliens here on a specific visa. Then we had them naturalized and they were considered only U.S. citizens. Then about 1990 the Colombian law changed and Colombian adoptees, who automatically became U.S. citizens the date their adoptive parents brought them into the U.S., were dual citizens. My sons didn't fall under the new rule but they could elect to re-establish their Colombian citizenship. One son did, it was a long process but he is now a dual citizen.

I had a friend who had her baby in the car while at the Peace Bridge entering back into Buffalo from their summer cottage, trying to get to the hospital. The baby was a dual citizen until she was 18, then had to choose. She chose U.S.

[Jana814]

Can someone remind me the breakdown of the kids. Is it 3 girls & 9 boys or 4 girls & 8 boys.

[WonderingInWA]

Can someone remind me the breakdown of the kids. Is it 3 girls & 9 boys or 4 girls & 8 boys.

3 girls, 9 boys. Oldest, a boy, is 17ish, the youngest, also a boy, is 4ish, I think.

[nelliebelle1197]

Every country is different. My sons are Colombian by birth. They were adopted by us, American citizens. They were considered Colombian citizens their first few years living here, we had to register them each year as aliens here on a specific visa. Then we had them naturalized and they were considered only U.S. citizens. Then about 1990 the Colombian law changed and Colombian adoptees, who automatically became U.S. citizens the date their adoptive parents brought them into the U.S., were dual citizens. My sons didn't fall under the new rule but they could elect to re-establish their Colombian citizenship. One son did, it was a long process but he is now a dual citizen.

I had a friend who had her baby in the car while at the Peace Bridge entering back into Buffalo from their summer cottage, trying to get to the hospital. The baby was a dual citizen until she was 18, then had to choose. She chose U.S.

Of course every country is different. But that is not my question. US law does not require- nor does it even mention - citizens having to choose. If a country has citizenship by birth (and Germany only does in certain circumstances, not just by virtue of being in Germany when you are born; Canada does automatically), then these children were citizens of the other country automatically, but under US law (and as best I can tell both German and Canadian law) they do not have to have never been required to renounce another country. I was curious as to why the OP's child has to choose since the US does no require it and Germany does not require it. Same with the Canada- why did your friend have to renounce? Canadian by birth statutes were passed in 1947. Both US and Canada allow dual citizenship. I am not being argumentative, I am honestly wondering what the differences are in these cases.

[NurseNell]

Of course every country is different. But that is not my question. US law does not require- nor does it even mention - citizens having to choose. If a country has citizenship by birth (and Germany only does in certain circumstances, not just by virtue of being in Germany when you are born; Canada does automatically), then these children were citizens of the other country automatically, but under US law (and as best I can tell both German and Canadian law) they do not have to have never been required to renounce another country. I was curious as to why the OP's child has to choose since the US does no require it and Germany does not require it. Same with the Canada- why did your friend have to renounce? Canadian by birth statutes were passed in 1947. Both US and Canada allow dual citizenship. I am not being argumentative, I am honestly wondering what the differences are in these cases.

I cannot answer for my friend's case. I recently reconnected with them and I asked about their daughter who had been born on the Peace Bridge. I was surprised to learn that she had to choose at 18 which citizenship she would keep as I thought it was a lifetime thing too.

[Jana814]

3 girls, 9 boys. Oldest, a boy, is 17ish, the youngest, also a boy, is 4ish, I think.

Thanks!!

[Peas n carrots]

Similar story to NurseNell's, my mother had a friend whose family lived in International Falls, MN but for whatever reason she was born in the hospital on the Canadian side of the border. This would have been in the 60's, so we're talking nearly 50 years ago but she had told my mom that she had to choose a citizenship at age 18 (which she chose US).

[OkToBeTakei]

Just wondering is it a choice thing rather than legal. Most of my family in the US are dual citizens Irish/US and although there are countries who do not allow both, Canada and Ireland are not on it. So I was wondering is it not so much HAVING to choose one as in choosing not to maintain two. Cost wise, sheer complicated shit wise?

[jenwales]

Does anyone know where their "little mountain home" may be? I really hope it's near family or friends who can help Jaynee adjust to her new life. The kids will be ok, but I worry for her.

[Letgo]

Does anyone know where their "little mountain home" may be? I really hope it's near family or friends who can help Jaynee adjust to her new life. The kids will be ok, but I worry for her.

I've been wondering where they are, too. It does not look like Redding to me, although it could be in the mountains in the area. That's what I'm thinking. Maybe in the area, but far enough out to have less expensive rent? I have also thought that maybe someone allowed them the use of a house until they get back on their feet. Did they bring the furniture with them? I know Jaynee talked about selling their possessions before they left Mexico, but they have beds, a table, chairs, a couch...was the house furnished or is that their stuff? I really hope it's close to Jaynee's family, wherever they are.

[WonderingInWA]

I've been wondering where they are, too. It does not look like Redding to me, although it could be in the mountains in the area. That's what I'm thinking. Maybe in the area, but far enough out to have less expensive rent? I have also thought that maybe someone allowed them the use of a house until they get back on their feet. Did they bring the furniture with them? I know Jaynee talked about selling their possessions before they left Mexico, but they have beds, a table, chairs, a couch...was the house furnished or is that their stuff? I really hope it's close to Jaynee's family, wherever they are.

I thought I recognized some of the furniture -- the kitchen table and cloth, the couch (I think that's the one that caught fire, isn't it?), and maybe the bunk beds. I'm sure they tried to unload as much as they could, but probably were attached to some of their goods. It's too bad they had to give up the dining area in the old house in Mexico that had all the built-ins for the kids to do schoolwork and store supplies. It was a nice set-up for a homeschooling family with 12 kids.

[Peas n carrots]

Just wondering is it a choice thing rather than legal. Most of my family in the US are dual citizens Irish/US and although there are countries who do not allow both, Canada and Ireland are not on it. So I was wondering is it not so much HAVING to choose one as in choosing not to maintain two. Cost wise, sheer complicated shit wise?

Could be, I'm not for sure with the case of my mom's friend.

DH has been looking at getting his US citizenship, and as I understand he would be able to maintain his British citizenship as well. I'll check it out some time but right now I can't be arsed :lol:

Though if Scotland goes independent...we will possibly have to study and understand all the rules and requirement in the near future :character-willie:

[ViolaSebastian]

the couch (I think that's the one that caught fire, isn't it?)

Woah, woah, woah. Somebody give me the 411 one the burning couch...I was under the impression that this only happened when sports team won big tournies.

Also, they still own the couch that caught fire? You'd think that if there's a time to invest in a new sofa, that would be it.

[WonderingInWA]

Woah, woah, woah. Somebody give me the 411 one the burning couch...I was under the impression that this only happened when sports team won big tournies.

Also, they still own the couch that caught fire? You'd think that if there's a time to invest in a new sofa, that would be it.

Jaynee blogged about it a few years ago. The back of the couch caught fire from a faulty electrical outlet it was backed up to, IIRC. She took photos, and it was just the back side and she was able to get it extinguished and I think they just kept using it. I'm not certain that's the same couch, but it does look like one they had in their front room in Mexico.

[amydamy]

Every country is different. My sons are Colombian by birth. They were adopted by us, American citizens. They were considered Colombian citizens their first few years living here, we had to register them each year as aliens here on a specific visa. Then we had them naturalized and they were considered only U.S. citizens. Then about 1990 the Colombian law changed and Colombian adoptees, who automatically became U.S. citizens the date their adoptive parents brought them into the U.S., were dual citizens. My sons didn't fall under the new rule but they could elect to re-establish their Colombian citizenship. One son did, it was a long process but he is now a dual citizen.

I had a friend who had her baby in the car while at the Peace Bridge entering back into Buffalo from their summer cottage, trying to get to the hospital. The baby was a dual citizen until she was 18, then had to choose. She chose U.S.

You can have dual US and Canadian citizenship. The rules related to it are somewhat bizarre. I have it, I was born in the US to a Canadian Citizen in the right time frame.

I don't have to do anything to maintain my Canadian citizenship my dad did all the paperwork when my brother and I were around 16 to get us SIN numbers and Canadian passports. The only thing I've done since then is renew my passport.

[Mitz_]

That kid that was born in Mexico (age 5) doesn't even speak Spanish! None of the " younger" ones do. I watched a YouTube video where Jaynee was giving an interview with a friend. She said that she and the headship speak Spanish , but then she told the friend how to say " where is the bathroom" in Spanish and she didn't even say it right! Wow, I mean wow. She said that her older children speak Spanish but the younger ones don't . I simply can not imagine that being possible. There are NO other English speaking people in their village and kids learn languages so fast just by playing with kids who speak that language. I guess extreme isolation is the key but what is the goal? Ignorance? Jaynee says that 99% of the time she is at home. I guess keeping everyone at home and isolated would be important to a headship who wants to boink around but still, my mind is blown .

[WonderingInWA]

She's got a new post up that talks about telling her story although then doesn't because Jesus is the author so only he knows the ending.

She sounds terribly depressed. And it's Father's Day. So she has to try to be grateful for the father of her children.

That's gotta be a bitter pill to swallow...

[formergothardite]

I took her latest post to mean that she was going to tell her story but it is so horrible that she can't think of anyway to spin it to even make it sound slightly good, so she is just going to wait and hope God does something so she can say "We went through all this, but look how God used it for His glory." But currently life just sucks for everyone.

[bea]

Wow, that was painful to watch.

And I am agog with prurient interests.