Another one bites the dust- Daniel Lockwood MERGE

[Mitz_]

A few years ago I visited an AIDS ward in Guadalajara, Mx. I was very surprised to see that over half of the patients in there were women. It was a clarifying moment for me. I realized right then that if cheating ever happened in my relationship, I would never be able to get past it.

So I watched a video where the Lockwood children were singing "Happy Birthday" and wow, they could really use some speech therapy in that family, Over half of them have a significant impairment. They do that thing that is pretty common in young children where they cant pronounce "R" , but some of them are not that little anymore. Surely they can get that as a free service now that they are in the U.S. or do fundies not do that?

[Georgiana]

A few years ago I visited an AIDS ward in Guadalajara, Mx. I was very surprised to see that over half of the patients in there were women. It was a clarifying moment for me. I realized right then that if cheating ever happened in my relationship, I would never be able to get past it.

So I watched a video where the Lockwood children were singing "Happy Birthday" and wow, they could really use some speech therapy in that family, Over half of them have a significant impairment. They do that thing that is pretty common in young children where they cant pronounce "R" , but some of them are not that little anymore. Surely they can get that as a free service now that they are in the U.S. or do fundies not do that?

In most states, therapy like this for school age children would be provided for free...through the public school system. Many states will allow home or privately schooled students to take advantage of public services like therapy that their other school program doesn't offer, but they still have to fill out all the proper paper work and be registered at the public school.

This may not be appealing to Daniel, especially as he likes to hide his family away. Therapists are bound by the same laws as other school workers and must report any signs of abuse or dangerous home environment to the authorities. Speech Therapists can come across this because home life is often an easy topic for conversation/practice. Plus, some speech/language issues stem directly from stressful environments, so a therapist might get concerned if they begin to suspect this. Not to mention, there's the logistical issue of Jaynee taking multiple kids to appointments while homeschooling the rest.

If a parent wants to take their children to an outside specialist or provide additional therapy, they can do so, but this is usually billed to insurance.

My personal take: they have a terrible linguistic environment. Late sounds like 'r' and correction of "baby speech" tends to come to kids when they are forced to standardize their speech due to interaction with the larger world (aka the world outside their close family/friend group. Usually pre-school or kindergarten/1st grade). This is because non-family members are not able to understand a child's "baby speech", and so the child must standardize to be understood/accepted (there's also a peer pressure element as well). The younger Lockwoods never had sustained interaction with their linguistic group in the larger world. The only non-family they had regular interaction with were people who did not speak English natively. The older kids did have an English-speaking non-family linguistic environment during their formative years, so they do not have these problems.

Basically, these kids probably just need to be put into public school/given interaction with their peers and they'd self-correct quick. Some of the slightly older ones might need a bit of therapy, but honestly, I doubt that given the right environment, they'd need more than a few appointments.

ETA: This happened with some of my friends who moved over as very young kids from China and never went to Chinese School. Because they only speak Chinese with their families, their spoken Chinese is still at the level of a very young child. Despite being native speakers, without given the chance, their Chinese was never able to standardize.

[Mitz_]

Their kids are just gorgeous. Indeed, just getting that many of them to appointments would be a challenge and their isolation is so extreme that the younger ones, even those born in Mexico did not learn to speak Spanish.

Here is the video I referred to:

http://vimeo.com/user11670914

[WonderingInWA]

Their kids are just gorgeous. Indeed, just getting that many of them to appointments would be a challenge and their isolation is so extreme that the younger ones, even those born in Mexico did not learn to speak Spanish.

Here is the video I referred to:

http://vimeo.com/user11670914

Ouch -- well that was painful! But you're right, the "r" sound is consistent among all of them, even the older ones. Jaynee seems to know how to say "r" so I'm surprised she hasn't worked with the kids on it. That would drive me nuts to hear that all day from 12 kids.

[Trynn]

My brother and I never had trouble with the letter R. I attribute this to my mother constantly reading out loud to us. We did have socialization, even before school age we just never had that problem.

[WonderingInWA]

My youngest son has had speech therapy through the school district for 3 years due to general marble-mouth enunciation (my older son has never had any trouble and we are very crisp speakers in our household). I read to him a lot, we practiced with him a lot, but the way his mouth is constructed and his teeth are and his tongue thrust -- there's a lot more to it than just modeling crisp speech. He's had an expander in the roof of his mouth and now has braces (he's almost 12) and his speech has improved over the years, but still not as crisp as the rest of us. He doesn't have the "r" problem though, interestingly. But a speech therapist has a long checklist of age-appropriate sounds and knows how they are created (fascinating to me, actually!), and my son's ST said she thinks the orthodontia and continued growth of his mouth will finally resolve the situation. I hope so!

[Rebelwife]

My youngest son has had speech therapy through the school district for 3 years due to general marble-mouth enunciation (my older son has never had any trouble and we are very crisp speakers in our household). I read to him a lot, we practiced with him a lot, but the way his mouth is constructed and his teeth are and his tongue thrust -- there's a lot more to it than just modeling crisp speech. He's had an expander in the roof of his mouth and now has braces (he's almost 12) and his speech has improved over the years, but still not as crisp as the rest of us. He doesn't have the "r" problem though, interestingly. But a speech therapist has a long checklist of age-appropriate sounds and knows how they are created (fascinating to me, actually!), and my son's ST said she thinks the orthodontia and continued growth of his mouth will finally resolve the situation. I hope so!

Oh yes, the tongue thrust and "juicy" speech. We've done years of therapy and honestly I think it is just finally maturity that is making the real difference. (She's 12.)

[WonderingInWA]

Oh yes, the tongue thrust and "juicy" speech. We've done years of therapy and honestly I think it is just finally maturity that is making the real difference. (She's 12.)

It is interesting, though, that even Jaynee's oldest children have the same issue with their "r" sound. I guess it's because they don't interact with kids outside their family and then have spent the last 10 years in a Spanish-speaking country. They probably don't even really know they have a speech problem. The "r" thing is understandable to a certain point, but even the 17yo has it.

[Rebelwife]

It is interesting, though, that even Jaynee's oldest children have the same issue with their "r" sound. I guess it's because they don't interact with kids outside their family and then have spent the last 10 years in a Spanish-speaking country. They probably don't even really know they have a speech problem. The "r" thing is understandable to a certain point, but even the 17yo has it.

Oh, I don't disagree about the R sound. Many speech problems have pretty easy fixes if you are just consistent about it. I lisped as a child and therapy helped quickly. I was just referring to problems like tongue thrust where the speech issue is more structural - it was obvious when my daughter was a newborn that she had it. (Made her a very efficient nurser, though!)

[Mitz_]

My youngest son has had speech therapy through the school district for 3 years due to general marble-mouth enunciation (my older son has never had any trouble and we are very crisp speakers in our household). I read to him a lot, we practiced with him a lot, but the way his mouth is constructed and his teeth are and his tongue thrust -- there's a lot more to it than just modeling crisp speech. He's had an expander in the roof of his mouth and now has braces (he's almost 12) and his speech has improved over the years, but still not as crisp as the rest of us. He doesn't have the "r" problem though, interestingly. But a speech therapist has a long checklist of age-appropriate sounds and knows how they are created (fascinating to me, actually!), and my son's ST said she thinks the orthodontia and continued growth of his mouth will finally resolve the situation. I hope so!

I think Jaynee tries real hard but you'd probably have to cough up a lung to get this level of intervention in the Lockwood family.

[Howl]

Any word on Daniel's job search? Being bilingual should be a major asset in his job search.

[Mary C Doates]

Ouch -- well that was painful! But you're right, the "r" sound is consistent among all of them, even the older ones. Jaynee seems to know how to say "r" so I'm surprised she hasn't worked with the kids on it. That would drive me nuts to hear that all day from 12 kids.

Daniel seems to have a similar articulation problem.

[Letgo]

Their kids are just gorgeous. Indeed, just getting that many of them to appointments would be a challenge and their isolation is so extreme that the younger ones, even those born in Mexico did not learn to speak Spanish.

Here is the video I referred to:

http://vimeo.com/user11670914

How is it that we know the younger kids did not learn to speak Spanish? I must have missed a post on that. I would think the younger ones would learn very easily. I know two American families who lived Europe for several years-one in Finland and one in Sweden. Both families had children while living abroad and all of the kids learned the language of the country in which they lived. In both cases, the youngest children struggled with English and spoke Finnish or Swedish well. Why on earth would any of the Lockwood children not be bilingual?

Ah, I just reread your post and noticed the isolation part. It helps to pay attention! Mitz, do you know the Lockwoods? I would think that a missionary who isolates his children would be sending a message that the local children aren't good enough to be friends with his children. I doubt that most people, including me, would value the isolation and sheltering and see it as beneficial.

[Mitz_]

How is it that we know the younger kids did not learn to speak Spanish? I must have missed a post on that. I would think the younger ones would learn very easily. I know two American families who lived Europe for several years-one in Finland and one in Sweden. Both families had children while living abroad and all of the kids learned the language of the country in which they lived. In both cases, the youngest children struggled with English and spoke Finnish or Swedish well. Why on earth would any of the Lockwood children not be bilingual?

Ah, I just reread your post and noticed the isolation part. It helps to pay attention! Mitz, do you know the Lockwoods? I would think that a missionary who isolates his children would be sending a message that the local children aren't good enough to be friends with his children. I doubt that most people, including me, would value the isolation and sheltering and see it as beneficial.

I do not know the Lockwoods, I have a particular interest in learning about them because I also live in Mexico . I learned that the younger kids don't speak Spanish from a comment made by Jaynee in this video:

http://youtu.be/dB-ksS8EEzE

She said that they are homeschooled and that is why they can't speak Spanish, but very young children would learn to speak fluently even if they just played with the other kids on a regular basis durning the summer while there is no school. I have seen that happen where I live and I don't understand how they avoided learning to speak Spanish either.

You are correct about the message that sends and as far as their neighbors are concerned those children that were born in Mexico are Mexicans and it is even shameful that the children can't speak their native language.

Daniel speaks Spanish quite well but Jaynee, just going on the little I have heard her say, does not speak it well at all. The missed opportunities are staggering.

[Howl]

Crickets on Lockwood Family to Mexico blog. Do they use Facebook and if so, any updates?

[Prevention]

Crickets on Lockwood Family to Mexico blog. Do they use Facebook and if so, any updates?

Rumor has it that Dan rejected any form of church discipline and has been removed from his home church and no longer attends there. That is a rumor. I haven't heard that from anyone in the family. He does not yet have a job.

[Coconut Flan]

Another one rejects church discipline, heh? This is making me smile. Not that Dougie and Daniel and any others should get away with their offenses but all they have to do is walk away and the leadership is left gabbling at themselves.

[Koala]

This is so ignorant, but what does church discipline look like? I mean, what can they do?

[Palimpsest]

Well, if Prevention's rumor is true and Dan is rejecting "church discipline" color me not surprised. Dan's just following in the well-trodden footsteps of other psychopaths who use the Fundie doctrine to control others and balk at following the rulz themselves.

What can "Church Discipline" do? Nothing, if people want to reject it. The "Church" needs to take responsibility for enabling these guys. Also, secular law-enforcement needs to be contacted, as appropriate, to protect their victims.

I hope Jaynee has committed and faithful supporters around her who can help get her (undoubtedly abused and brainwashed self) and the children AWAY from Daniel. There is nothing good about their staying with Dan.

Prevention, want to step up to the plate on that? You claim to know Jaynee.

ETA: I know this sounds harsh but I have very little patience with "insiders" posting rumors to FJ. We at FJ can't do anything about it except snark and rage. We don't know the Lockwoods.

You, Prevention, if you are really an insider, CAN do something about it. Even if it is just talking to other involved people and encouraging them to intervene, or perhaps even whipping up a tatertot casserole, delivering it to Jaynee and kids and perhaps offering to listen and (one hopes) focus on rescuing the Jaynee and kids from an intolerable situation.

Posting rumor and gossip to FJ really doesn't help much. Does it?

[Howl]

This is so ignorant, but what does church discipline look like? I mean, what can they do?

Well, it's not all whips, high heeled boots and studded collars.

My impression is that it is a form of spiritual rehab. The church (pastor and or elders) sets up a spiritual path to repentance for the sinner, who one hopes is abjectly sorry for his/her very bad behavior.

The sinner repents, gets right with Jesus, everyone sings Kumbaya, followed by the fundie version of a group hug. The sinner gets off probation at some point (because repent, repent) and is back to being a regular member of the congregation.

If you want to know more about biblical repentance, check out the Boerne Christian Assembly Website here for clarification.

[Trynn]

I can sort of speak for Planet Adventist. Seventh day Adventist church discipline (which rarely even happnes these days but that's another rant) involves, if yore lucky, merely removal from whatever position you hold in the church.

The only time I've ever see. Church discipline in action, though, is when a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock. Then they get disfellowshipped, which means their name is removed from the church membership. Try are still welcome to attend the church (in theory, those who would actually show up are treated as if they are less than) but you may not show up to board meetings, vote in board meetings, hold church office, etc.

Most women I know in that situation have just walked away and never look back. The only time I've seen a man disfellowshipped is dr pipim, and we all know about THAT fiasco, but if someone feels the need to post links about it, BREAK THEM. Dr P and I were never close, but he does know me by name.

Also, according to the michigan conference, he is still disfellowshipped: we can't control what Ohio does, but Jay gallimore has made it crystal clear that pipim won't regain power in Michigan , at least not on his watch.

True fact: part of the reason I wanted to use a baby is because I waisted my name removed from the books, but they wouldn't do it when I asked them to because my dad was in the board at the time. Or something.

[Howl]

Rumor has it that Dan rejected any form of church discipline and has been removed from his home church and no longer attends there. That is a rumor. I haven't heard that from anyone in the family. He does not yet have a job.

I'm fine with rumors. Thank you for updating us on what you know. Very concerning that he has not yet found any type of job; this is a man with a lot of mouths to feed.

Not surprised on rejecting church discipline, in general. It seems like a fairly humiliating process, the church knows of your fall from grace, you have to spill the beans to a fair number of people whose role it is to get up in your spiritual grille and your life in general to make sure you walk the straight and narrow and that you are truly repentant. Meh.

Also a note on Jaynee. In her blog posts, there is nothing there in her way of thinking or being that I've read that would allow even the thought of leaving her husband, because GOD. Multiply the complication factors by 12.....

[Palimpsest]

I'm fine with rumors. Thank you for updating us on what you know. Very concerning that he has not yet found any type of job; this is a man with a lot of mouths to feed.

Not surprised on rejecting church discipline, in general. It seems like a fairly humiliating process, the church knows of your fall from grace, you have to spill the beans to a fair number of people whose role it is to get up in your spiritual grille and your life in general to make sure you walk the straight and narrow and that you are truly repentant. Meh.

Also a note on Jaynee. In her blog posts, there is nothing there in her way of thinking or being that I've read that would allow even the thought of leaving her husband, because GOD. Multiply the complication factors by 12.....

[snarkopolis]

Well, it's not all whips, high heeled boots and studded collars.

My impression is that it is a form of spiritual rehab. The church (pastor and or elders) sets up a spiritual path to repentance for the sinner, who one hopes is abjectly sorry for his/her very bad behavior.

The sinner repents, gets right with Jesus, everyone sings Kumbaya, followed by the fundie version of a group hug. The sinner gets off probation at some point (because repent, repent) and is back to being a regular member of the congregation.

If you want to know more about biblical repentance, check out the Boerne Christian Assembly Website here for clarification.

So kinda like the equivalent of confession maybe but no rosary beads and Hail Marys? :lol:

[Prevention]

Anything that I do not hear from the mouth of a family member I would consider to be a "rumor". This person who told me is apart of their church and I would consider it to be very reliable but I would still use the term "rumor" since it lacks family confirmation. Yes, I do know the lockwoods personally and very well and yes I can assure you that Jaynee's family has offered support and tried to talk reason to Jaynee. You CANNOT make someone leave who is unwilling to leave. I know these families and I know that both sides have tried to help Jaynee get away only to be completely laughed off and rejected.

Church discipline would be standing in front of the church membership and confessing what you did after repenting to God and your family. You hurt the church body as a whole so they are also due an explanation and apology especially after providing much financial support. Dan has always been a prideful guy...I won't say "man" because a man doesn't do what he has done to his family. I feel bad for Jaynee. And I know that posting what I know on here doesn't do any good for Jaynee---or does it? You see, I know she has read this blog in the past, and I am hopeful that she is still reading it now. Jaynee if you are reading this please get away from Daniel. Protect those kids. Ask your family or his family for help in getting out. I know your parents and sisters would do anything to help you.

I also post here as a way to vent my frustration about the situation and to squash ridiculous rumors from pure speculation (I have stated that before). I am no longer in regular contact with any of Jaynee's family members but I do see Dan's family members often.