Another one bites the dust- Daniel Lockwood MERGE

[medievalist1980]

I thought about the possibility of him adopting the baby, too, if in fact that's what is going on. The timing would be about right. Jaynee's last happy blog post was in Jan/Feb about how her husband was encouraging her to ramp up her blogging because she liked it so much and she'd made a plan to do it several times a week. And then, she fell silent after a couple initial posts. Which may have been (probably was) around the time she would have found out about a pregnancy that wasn't hers. So based on that idea, the baby could very well be due anytime up until July when they are being ordered back to the States (well, are probably being offered the money to move as a last supportive effort and if they don't take it, that's their decision).

All pure speculation on my part, though.

I thought that could be why they were given 3 months. The baby could even already be born, but the mother is nursing/baby is too young to leave her? I understand them needing time to sell their house, but I'm not sure why he would be in charge of finding his replacement.

Complete speculation here as well. It makes me sick to think that if there is an actual baby he had with another woman that it might be packed up to go with him and we don't know if the mother consented to him raising it, etc. Alright, the speculation is making my heart hurt. I'm going to wait and see, but I can see it all coming down this way.

[anniebgood]

If the church is adjacent to the home, maybe it's for the pastor and their family. Jaynee didn't need this stress. She's strung as tight as a high wire and though she says she's cheerful, I doubt it. And good submissive wives don't throw their husbands clothes in the trash can and light them on fire or throw a pan full of frijoles at their heads. We only wish.

I will pray that she and her kids are taken care of and Daniel keeps his wick dry.

[Snarknado]

Jaynee has posted that she intends to continue sharing their journey.

[WonderingInWA]

If the church is adjacent to the home, maybe it's for the pastor and their family. Jaynee didn't need this stress. She's strung as tight as a high wire and though she says she's cheerful, I doubt it. And good submissive wives don't throw their husbands clothes in the trash can and light them on fire or throw a pan full of frijoles at their heads. We only wish.

I will pray that she and her kids are taken care of and Daniel keeps his wick dry.

The church has been in a couple of different locations. A couple of buildings I think were rented and then they moved and bought property and built a new church building on it a couple of years ago. I believe when they first got to Mexico, they built their own home as well. Hopefully they own it so will be able to sell it, but I am assuming it's much nicer than anything most people there can afford so it's hard to say how much $$ they could get out of it.

I think Jaynee always struggles with staying cheerful. I would, too. She's talked about how miserable she was when they first moved there and they probably only had 1/2 the kids they have now.

[theologygeek]

I would love to know what he did cause if they r deleting stuff it really must have been bad.

Everything is still available in google's cache. Nothing was bad though. I don't know why they would delete stuff. Odd.

[Jana814]

Prevention, thanks for the explanation of Dan's family. I also got confused & thought he came from a family w/ a lot of girls.

About Jaynee & Daniel does anyone know how long they have been in Mexico or the age range of the kids. I seem to remember reading that the kids were born in 12 year span (1 a year for 12 years).

[Letgo]

About Jaynee & Daniel does anyone know how long they have been in Mexico or the age range of the kids. I seem to remember reading that the kids were born in 12 year span (1 a year for 12 years).

The oldest child is 17 and the youngest is 5, so yep, pretty much 12 children in 12 years.

I think they moved to Mexico in late 2003 or early 2004. They had seven children at the time of the move, I believe, so that would mean around 2003 or '04.

Speculating here...could a baby have been born that was obviously lighter skinned than the mother, thus causing talk in the community? (Especially if Daniel spent time in Bible study or counseling with the woman.) Are there other blond men living in the area? The blog post about Daniel's moral failure says that he confessed his sin to his pastor. I doubt he would have come clean unless it was unavoidable. The birth of a child with blond hair, blue eyes, light skin, or whatever identifying characteristic, could have been what forced this into the open, thus the confession.

[theologygeek]

He's been like that since he was a kid---always a charmer, very polite as others have pointed out, but he is a deceptive guy. I never liked him so I don't mind telling it like it is.

The other day, I was watching a video of David Waller and his wife. They were at a St. Patrick's Day parade. David Waller made a comment about how there were Catholics at the parade, and he threw in the standard Catholic digs that are common with ignorant people who have no grasp of Catholic doctrine. He reminded me of Daniel Lockwood. If these people really felt the need to save souls, they would start with religions that don't believe in Jesus. It's like a game with them, and they get a high when they convert a Catholic to Protestantism. Soul winning is the fundie version of sports. They don't get a high for Jesus. They get a high because they scored. A person with a deceptive personality is the kind who gets into this field.

[Jana814]

The oldest child is 17 and the youngest is 5, so yep, pretty much 12 children in 12 years.

I think they moved to Mexico in late 2003 or early 2004. They had seven children at the time of the move, I believe, so that would mean around 2003 or '04.

Thanks for the info!!

[lipstickgoalie]

Is it even within the realm of possibility that Daniel's "moral failing" was ongoing spousal or child abuse? I don't feel like I know enough about the structure of these missionary endeavors.

[uber frau]

I doubt it. In IBF communities men can get away with pretty much anything short of actually separating a body from a soul. (All I the name of parental/husbandly authority,of course). Even in comparably liberal congregations, where abuse is not condoned (at least, not on paper), I very much doubt anyone would say or do anything unless his wife or child actually up and left. And Jaynee's still there and so, I think, are all the kids.

[Palimpsest]

I thought that could be why they were given 3 months. The baby could even already be born, but the mother is nursing/baby is too young to leave her? I understand them needing time to sell their house, but I'm not sure why he would be in charge of finding his replacement.

Complete speculation here as well. It makes me sick to think that if there is an actual baby he had with another woman that it might be packed up to go with him and we don't know if the mother consented to him raising it, etc. Alright, the speculation is making my heart hurt. I'm going to wait and see, but I can see it all coming down this way.

Yes. This line of speculation is making me queasy too, and for the same reasons. If Daniel has strayed, it's bad enough that he hurt Jaynee and his own family. Adding in casual references to possible forced adoption makes me wince. Let's hope his moral failure was consorting with professional sex workers using his missionary budget.

When you think about it, all of these charismatic pastors and unskilled church planting missionaries have huge egos and enormous hubris. I don't think I've ever come across one that wasn't "prideful" in the extreme. Think how arrogant it is to assume that you have the only right kind of Christianity, and that you are chosen by God to share your super-speshul secret with others by "discipling" them.

Yuck.

[apple1]

Jaynee has another blog post up.

[formergothardite]

In a lot of ways Jaynee reminds me of Beal Phillips. Both were taken in by manipulative, narcissistic, con-men, both have been very vocal supporters of these men's ministries and both are standing by their man after they have been ousted from the ministries because of moral failures.

[nokidsmom]

Whatever the "moral failing" was, it's a pretty safe bet that he was caught and had to confess.

Regarding the baby adoption speculation, if there is indeed a baby involved and they wanted to adopt it and take it back to the US, wouldn't there be some process? Plus agreement from the mother? And if the mother is married, is it possible that by law her husband would be considered the father, so both would have to agree? I am not sure that there can simply be some forced adoption, but it would be interesting if they ended up with another kid in the family after going back to the states.

[ShutUpMakeABaby]

Jaynee has another blog post up.

I've read her post twice now and I've still got no idea what she's on about. Blah, blah, blah love... God... prayers... new chapter... shiny. :wtf:

[Georgiana]

In a lot of ways Jaynee reminds me of Beal Phillips. Both were taken in by manipulative, narcissistic, con-men, both have been very vocal supporters of these men's ministries and both are standing by their man after they have been ousted from the ministries because of moral failures.

For normal people, when your partner does something wrong, the reaction is usually somewhere in the middle. "I still love you, but you really hurt me, and I need time to see if this relationship can continue." But for public figures, you don't have that luxury. The public face you present either has to be 100% support or 100% done, and you have to make that choice quickly. For many people, they aren't 100% ready to leave a long term relationship just like that. So they stay and support their spouse initially...and later leave.

But really though, what choice did either of these women have? They have no practical skills to support themselves and their families that I know of, and even if they did, they've been out of the workforce for so long that they're hardly going to be able to compete in a competitive job market. ALL of their support systems are tied up in their husbands and their ministries, so if they left, they would be without friends to assist or emotional support. Yes, they probably have people outside who would help (in Jaynee's case, her family), but they've been so isolated for so long, I'm sure they don't see this as the viable option it is. Then there's the religious aspect. And admitting your failure to the world when you've been an example to others for so long. Tough stuff. And hard to do suddenly and quickly.

I think for both these women, this is the only option they see themselves having. And so they go on and are trying to make the best of the situation or control the damage, in slightly different ways.

But I also think it might be too soon to judge. For either woman, this would be a huge leap. The break might come, and it might be starting now, but we may not see it for some time.

[apple1]

I would guess (no inside knowledge at all) that Jaynee might believe that at the least she has to stick with Dan until they are back in the US. I hope that at that point she at least could get help from her parents and siblings. I would think that once back in the US, there also might be the option of a women's shelter.

I agree with Georgiana that it might be too soon to judge. Assuming that Prevention's info is reliable, it might take a long time to decide to make changes.

[salex]

I've read her post twice now and I've still got no idea what she's on about. Blah, blah, blah love... God... prayers... new chapter... shiny. :wtf:

Confession, repentance, brokenness, forgiveness, love, grace, growth....ashes to beauty. That is what I believe our Lord can do! I don't want Monday to be the end of our story

What I get out of her blog post is enough people emailed support that she and her oh-so- repentant husband are already thinking of the book deal. (Focus on the Family et al live for those kinds of books)

[salex]

I also think it might be too soon to judge. It depends a lot on if this is a culmination of years of abuse (of whatever kind) or a string of things that he never got caught before but she knew about. Also, she may well want to forgive him, and think she has until sometime in the future when he starts showing signs of repeating the behavior that got them tossed out on their asses OR, one small annoying habit repeated for the 10th time in a week just is the straw that breaks the camel's back and she decides she's done.

OR, separate lives with no divorce.

I would like to give a shout out to all these women who are told they can't divorce-- I think the pertinent verse says that it is the remarriage that causes the sin... and I would be willing to bet some of these women would happily live unmarried with their kids if that would get them out of their hellish marriages.

[Letgo]

I just can't see her divorcing him. The patriarchal stuff is too deeply ingrained. I could see him leaving her, because it's all her fault anyway, whatever he did. But unless he goes, I think she will stick with him. I read the comments on the blog post with his letter saying he had committed a moral failure and many mentioned Satan attacking them. I think this is how they will spin it. While Daniel would never do what he did on his own, with the devil's evil help, he did. So Jaynee will stay. Marriage is until death, no matter what. Besides, there are twelve children! How on earth is she going to support them alone? Plus, she'd need child care if she had a paying job. And the kids are homeschooled-you know they aren't going to be sent to the local public schools wherever they land.

[TrueRebel1]

I just can't see her divorcing him. The patriarchal stuff is too deeply ingrained. I could see him leaving her, because it's all her fault anyway, whatever he did. But unless he goes, I think she will stick with him. I read the comments on the blog post with his letter saying he had committed a moral failure and many mentioned Satan attacking them. I think this is how they will spin it. While Daniel would never do what he did on his own, with the devil's evil help, he did. So Jaynee will stay. Marriage is until death, no matter what. Besides, there are twelve children! How on earth is she going to support them alone? Plus, she'd need child care if she had a paying job. And the kids are homeschooled-you know they aren't going to be sent to the local public schools wherever they land.

Exactly. There are too many ingrained road-blocks to making it a possibility for her to consider leaving or divorcing him. The best she can do is gain a "support group" thru her blog to emotionally enable her to stay with him.

[nausicaa]

The oldest child is 17 and the youngest is 5, so yep, pretty much 12 children in 12 years.

I think they moved to Mexico in late 2003 or early 2004. They had seven children at the time of the move, I believe, so that would mean around 2003 or '04.

Speculating here...could a baby have been born that was obviously lighter skinned than the mother, thus causing talk in the community? (Especially if Daniel spent time in Bible study or counseling with the woman.) Are there other blond men living in the area? The blog post about Daniel's moral failure says that he confessed his sin to his pastor. I doubt he would have come clean unless it was unavoidable. The birth of a child with blond hair, blue eyes, light skin, or whatever identifying characteristic, could have been what forced this into the open, thus the confession.

That's what I've been assuming. Either the baby has already been born and the different appearance has raised eyebrows, or the pregnant woman has stood up for herself and asked for support/money/marriage and is using the likely difference in appearance as a way to back up her demands (Not criticizing a woman for doing that, she is totally within her rights to expect support. I also wouldn't have put it past him to have promised marriage or have manipulated a very young girl for sex in the grand tradition of fundie pastor affairs).

[nausicaa]

Is it even within the realm of possibility that Daniel's "moral failing" was ongoing spousal or child abuse? I don't feel like I know enough about the structure of these missionary endeavors.

Sadly, I don't think most fundie churches see that as a moral failing. They'd just say he was toughening up the kids and teaching the wife she needed to submit more.

[Caramel]

I've read back over this thread - quickly, I admit. But, am I missing something? What's all this about a baby? Do we even know if his presumably sexual moral failing was with a female human being?