Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 7

[LittleOleMe]

I'm a newly engaged woman (though in my head I still feel like a wee girl sometimes!), and my FH and I are both committed follwers of Christ.

Our wedding isn't for another 2 years, but I've already been semi plagued by nerves and unsurety as well as sheer excitement about our first night (and of course - our whole lives) together. Finding this forum, and inparticular, finding this thread has alleviated a certain fear of the unknown. I know we'll have to wait and find out how things really go for us, should Jesus remain away, but I am SO thankful to have read this

Did she seriously just say she may not get married bc Jesus will come back and the end times will occur within the next two years?! :shock:

[EmmieJ]

I feel like getting rid of the hair is pretty normal, at least among women my age. How do you wear a swimsuit if you don't?

I guess it just depends on how much pubic hair you have, but it wasn't a problem for me. I wore both one pieces and two pieces and tucked any strays inside. However, I know that the current trend is to trim, shave or wax all of it entirely. Even men are doing it.

[amster]

I know they just don't know and it's good they're at least posting stuff like this but it just seems sad to have it spelled out this way between a bunch of married adults. I also wonder if half of this is due to nerves -- being able to be very relaxed and comfortable is about 70% of having non-painful intercourse. The rest being some combination of knowing your body and being experienced and being properly wet.

The last time I remember being "painfully tight" is the second time I had my period (I was 12, I think?) and wanting to use tampons and panicking (it didn't go in, shocker) about the experience. I didn't try again with tampons until I was 17 when I got my period unexpectedly at a pool party but even as virgin who didn't masturbate with penetration, it was much better -- relaxing and being familiar with my body was all the difference there. I think it would be a huge help for fundies. (And I mean, your body is a temple or something, right, so uh, enjoy?)

Also a lot of them mention being well lubricated enough or not having bought any or known to buy any. Maybe if they didn't diss oral sex, this problem would be eliminated. (And if Jon Snow can figure cunnilingus out his first time, I'm sure some of these couples can too.)

Wow. Just wow. That thread is a whole bunch of sad. I feel so sorry for those women. I'm going to go cry for them now...

[coffeebean7]

Explain the oral = lazy thing.

I think I may have just found my next book to read. I just finished Josh Harris' second book.

I'm not really sure, but it's something about oral being a shortcut. That it's more intense, so people avoid actual intercourse which is bad? I haven't read the books...

The marriage bed forum is kind of sad :(

[jerkit]

I'm not really sure, but it's something about oral being a shortcut. That it's more intense, so people avoid actual intercourse which is bad? I haven't read the books...

The marriage bed forum is kind of sad :(

For people who claim that married sex is a gift from god, you'd think they wouldn't reject any part of that gift.

[LittleOleMe]

For people who claim that married sex is a gift from god, you'd think they wouldn't reject any part of that gift.

Seriously. But since they're in that whole "sex is for married people and a precious gift from god" bullshit, clearly putting themselves on a pedestal, forgoing the oral sex is probably just more of their "look at how godly we are" crap. Oral sex is pleasurable and nothing else. Actual sex can produce babies. Plus you have some of the crazies who think sex is only for baby making so the pleasurable part is out, making oral sex unnecessary.

I don't know about you, but isn't oral sex part of foreplay?

[jerkit]

Seriously. But since they're in that whole "sex is for married people and a precious gift from god" bullshit, clearly putting themselves on a pedestal, forgoing the oral sex is probably just more of their "look at how godly we are" crap. Oral sex is pleasurable and nothing else. Actual sex can produce babies. Plus you have some of the crazies who think sex is only for baby making so the pleasurable part is out, making oral sex unnecessary.

I don't know about you, but isn't oral sex part of foreplay?

I guess foreplay isn't really necessary when women don't have any options. Sad.

[LittleOleMe]

I guess foreplay isn't really necessary when women don't have any options. Sad.

Yeah, sex isn't for them. Women are just there to please their husbands. They don't need pleasure. But you would think the guys would like it. Even if it's just foreplay and there's no "wasted seed".

[lascuba]

Seriously. But since they're in that whole "sex is for married people and a precious gift from god" bullshit, clearly putting themselves on a pedestal, forgoing the oral sex is probably just more of their "look at how godly we are" crap. Oral sex is pleasurable and nothing else. Actual sex can produce babies. Plus you have some of the crazies who think sex is only for baby making so the pleasurable part is out, making oral sex unnecessary.

I don't know about you, but isn't oral sex part of foreplay?

It's even worse than that, I think, because it creates a situation where women who don't/can't get off on penetrative sex are made to feel deficient. So it's not so much that women shouldn't enjoy sex...I've heard that that book the that book the fundies give their kids to read to teach them about sex explicitly states that sex should be pleasurable for both partners. It's that only PIV sex is acceptable so the fault is hers if she never enjoys it, and if she's supposed to like it because God says so, what does that say about her?

[nolongerIFBx]

Did she seriously just say she may not get married bc Jesus will come back and the end times will occur within the next two years?! :shock:

Many (most?) Christians believe that Jesus could return at any time. I don't think she means that she is specifically expecting Him in the next two years! It is kindof a joke that Horrors! Jesus might return before you have a chance to get married. You'll go straight to heaven and never get to experience married life (sex).

[Toothfairy]

Don't discount the possibility that those men's expectations came from watching porn and not from real life experience with actual women. :twisted: Not to get all TMI, but I'm in my early 30s and my, err, personal style is pretty variable, and I've never been with a man who commented on the presence of hair.

This! My husband watch porn a few days before our wedding night and expected wild high end sex. Which didn't happen at all. I think people who watch porn have unrealistic expectations. You don't just stick it in and get wild sex.

[Toothfairy]

I've talked to my kids about sex from a very young age. Not graphic details but I think it's important to know about puberty and their bodies. I don't understand why the sex talk is off limits in fundie homes. Sex isn't dirty or nasty or a disease.

[N The Prayer Closet]

Jill and Derrick will be too busy cleaning Saran Wrap and butt loads of rotting sardines out of their getaway car to actually settle in and consummate the marriage. I still have nightmares about Smuggar closing the motel room door on the TLC cameras on his wedding night. *ugh, shudder* Hopefully Derrick will tell the cameras to get lost long before they have a romantic, "speshul" night at the La Quinta

[EmmieJ]

I don't know about you, but isn't oral sex part of foreplay?

Well, it has always been a key ingredient in any happy romantic relationship I've had. And I don't accept obligatory yet reluctant efforts on my partner's part either. If giving isn't a guy's thing, that's fine, but he won't be my guy for long.

[floridiot]

Yeah, sex isn't for them. Women are just there to please their husbands. They don't need pleasure. But you would think the guys would like it. Even if it's just foreplay and there's no "wasted seed".

The whole idea of fundie sex is depressing to me. If I had been born into one of these families I would never know what an orgasm was. In the 15 years i have been sexually active, I've never been able to have an orgasm through penetration. Not once. I don't get any pleasure from penetration, only clitoral stimulation. It takes either a vibrator (not of the baby-holding variety heh heh) or me being on top in complete control. If I had to lay on my back in the missionary position every night...I would fucking HATE sex.

[feministxtian]

Well, it has always been a key ingredient in any happy romantic relationship I've had. And I don't accept obligatory yet reluctant efforts on my partner's part either. If giving isn't a guy's thing, that's fine, but he won't be my guy for long.

One of many reasons my X is an X....the original 7 minute wonder (including foreplay)...my current h...he can pack a lunch, stay down there all day and make me want to jump right out of my skin. I cannot imagine going thru life w/o that!

[Free Them All]

The research that Masters and Johnson did in the late 50's and 60's proved that women orgasm by clitoral stimulation not penetration. I believe these fundie women who are controlled by men trying to live as they did 100 years ago, have no clue how to please a woman sexually because (1) these women fake it to please their man and (2) they do not know their own sexuality. Masturbation is a sin. I believe the Duggar men are clueless that penetration does nothing for a woman because of the faking.

NEVER marry a man without trying him out first!!!! Poor Duggar girls......a life without orgasms.....

[HarryPotterFan]

I learn so much on these forums. I don't really discuss maintenance down there with my friends. A couple have been like, "Oh, this new guy was the first to get me to really orgasm/my boyfriend finally learned how to give me an orgasm" and I'm just lie :shock: and don't ask for detail. Kinda makes me sad that it sounds like it's more difficult for women to orgasm?

Yeah I'm inexperienced and am like "dammit, there are Duggars with a more active love life than me"

[HarryPotterFan]

I've also promised myself when the time comes, I won't fake an orgasm. If a man fails, he should know it :lol:

[Rescinded and Mended]

I once caught part of an episode of Real Sex on HBO. The show was about a sex workshop for couples. The instructor was explaining that part of the reason why many women fail to orgasm during sex (vaginal penetration) was because the clitoris was anatomically situated so far away from the vagina. There were actual diagrams of the external female anatomy, and in some of them, the clitoris and vagina were much closer together compared to being further away from each other in different pics. It boiled down to not having enough friction during sex for an orgasm because the clitoris was further away. This probaby isn't the only reason some women have trouble, of course, but it made sense to me and was very informative.

[HarryPotterFan]

I once caught part of an episode of Real Sex on HBO. The show was about a sex workshop for couples. The instructor was explaining that part of the reason why many women fail to orgasm during sex (vaginal penetration) was because the clitoris was anatomically situated so far away from the vagina. There were actual diagrams of the external female anatomy, and in some of them, the clitoris and vagina were much closer together compared to being further away from each other in different pics. It boiled down to not having enough friction during sex for an orgasm because the clitoris was further away. This probaby isn't the only reason some women have trouble, of course, but it made sense to me and was very informative.

If I ever get a man again I am totally giving him a diagram of a vagina, because that is actually an awesome idea...

Stupid complicated vaginas...

[actuallyjessica]

I've also promised myself when the time comes, I won't fake an orgasm. If a man fails, he should know it :lol:

Be in charge of your own orgasm. Tell him what works for you and if it's not happening as great as you'd like there are things such as hands to use during penetration.

[Free Them All]

Be in charge of your own orgasm. Tell him what works for you and if it's not happening as great as you'd like there are things such as hands to use during penetration.

Absolutely right---be in charge of your own orgasm! Position matters and being on top is best for clitoral stimulation during penetration but men can be trained to please you and don't be afraid to tell them what works and does not work for you. I do not believe there is anything wrong with the design of the vagina and clitoris. They are separate for a reason.

[Antimony]

The research that Masters and Johnson did in the late 50's and 60's proved that women orgasm by clitoral stimulation not penetration. I believe these fundie women who are controlled by men trying to live as they did 100 years ago, have no clue how to please a woman sexually because (1) these women fake it to please their man and (2) they do not know their own sexuality. Masturbation is a sin. I believe the Duggar men are clueless that penetration does nothing for a woman because of the faking.

NEVER marry a man without trying him out first!!!! Poor Duggar girls......a life without orgasms.....

Wait, how "definite" was this finding? Just "mostly" or "always"? I'm reading the Wikipedia page and the study actually sounds like a bit of a mess (not surprised for the times). But The Joy of Sex (my current read) was published in 1972 so surely people had this knowledge before then and just refused to address it.

The Wiki page just says they found no difference physiologically between clitoral and vaginal orgasm.

I don't think penetration "does nothing" for a woman. I know this is not the case for me -- TMI alert but I find it very possible to come from (both kinds) of penetrative sex. I suspect the Duggar sex is bad for more complex reasons other than penetration "does nothing" -- probably more guilt and fear of exploring bodies properly.

I kind of hope that they start their wedding night in the shower -- I feel like a shared shower could ease that "0 to 60" feeling. Showers are a familiar experience and with a partner and a bunch of soap bubbles they're fun, probably even for fundies. Then again, it kind of does involve getting naked all at once. :shrug:

[Free Them All]

The point is these kids are not ready for a full sexual relationship because their parents have taught them sex is naughty and to be ashamed of their bodies and to hide them. If they are lucky they may gradually evolve out of this but I doubt it. They will pretend and fake it. Just like Smuggar and SmuggaAnna probably do. I think 3 very young kids are wearing on them......and I predict they will use birth control soon.