Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 7

[lascuba]

Unfortunately, I have. And they're pretty dickish about it, too. The porn industry has really ruined sex for a lot of people. So many men think that as soon as they penetrate, she's orgasming. I've actually heard of many women in their 20s and 30s refusing to date men their own age bc "porn has ruined them". They just expect too much. From the women and themselves. It's quite sad, really.

Ugh, I totally believe you, unfortunately. While I'm not generally a fan of men who sleep around a lot there's something to be said for real-life experience. If most of what men learn about women and sex is via porn then their expectations of real women and sex are going to be way off.

[EmmieJ]

Unfortunately, I have. And they're pretty dickish about it, too. The porn industry has really ruined sex for a lot of people. So many men think that as soon as they penetrate, she's orgasming. I've actually heard of many women in their 20s and 30s refusing to date men their own age bc "porn has ruined them". They just expect too much. From the women and themselves. It's quite sad, really.

I tend to agree - the easy access to porn, and the fact that most porn is made by men who seem to have either little interest or little actual knowledge of what is sexually arousing for women, has been detrimental for both men and women. However a woman wants to groom herself is her own business, but I shaved my pubic hair once in my 20's and oh my god, the growing in process was miserable and I decided never to do that shit again. And you can forget about waxing entirely. However, I do shave my underarms and my legs, so go figure.

[bluelady]

I tend to agree - the easy access to porn, and the fact that most porn is made by men who seem to have either little interest or little actual knowledge of what is sexually arousing for women, has been detrimental for both men and women. However a woman wants to groom herself is her own business, but I shaved my pubic hair once in my 20's and oh my god, the growing in process was miserable and I decided never to do that shit again. And you can forget about waxing entirely. However, I do shave my underarms and my legs, so go figure.

I use a beard trimmer. It keeps everything nice and short and I only have to clean up the sides with a razor.

Other than that, I think it depends on the man. I haven't been with that many men, but none have complained one way or the other. The only thing my SO has ever said about it was that he likes it short - and that was after a recent grooming, so who knows? I'm currently pregnant so things are getting a little more wild and free now than they were when I could actually see what I was doing and he hasn't said anything yet.

[RosyDaisy]

My fiancée says men who are repelled by hair down there probably can't get it up anyway and that a Viagra would take care of that. He sure as hell hasn't said anything to me about my down south landscaping, and I don't shave or wax down there. I tried it once, and the razor burn was horrible. Never again.

[Rachel333]

The razor burn gets a lot better the more you do it. I remember the first few times I shaved my armpits as well I had horrible razor burn.

I feel like getting rid of the hair is pretty normal, at least among women my age. How do you wear a swimsuit if you don't?

Some fundie girls do at least shave their legs since the Duggar girls often wear knee length skirts now (though I do have a fundie friend whose mom paid her not to shave until she was 20--I have no idea why). I don't know what else they shave since it's not like anyone would see their armpits and other bits unless they were married. I can't imagine this is a conversation they would have with each other either!

[Cats B4 Quivers]

So, what is sex ed like in the Duggar household? The actual sex, sex ed?

I recall Smuggar received a cd to listen to in his car (bet that made for some fun driving for him) and a book before he married Anna.

[Rachel333]

So, what is sex ed like in the Duggar household? The actual sex, sex ed?

I recall Smuggar received a cd to listen to in his car (bet that made for some fun driving for him) and a book before he married Anna.

I'm curious about that myself. I wonder if the parents actually discuss anything with them or just hand them a book. Surely they don't actually wait until the night before the wedding?

[for_the_Kitties]

I'm curious about that myself. I wonder if the parents actually discuss anything with them or just hand them a book. Surely they don't actually wait until the night before the wedding?

I always assumed they just handed them some Legos, told them to "figure it out" ahead of time and hope for the best. But seriously, I think they have to tell them something or at least what is right to do, to avoid using ebil non missionary positions or wasting the man's precious seed.

[RosyDaisy]

The razor burn gets a lot better the more you do it. I remember the first few times I shaved my armpits as well I had horrible razor burn.

I feel like getting rid of the hair is pretty normal, at least among women my age. How do you wear a swimsuit if you don't?

Some fundie girls do at least shave their legs since the Duggar girls often wear knee length skirts now (though I do have a fundie friend whose mom paid her not to shave until she was 20--I have no idea why). I don't know what else they shave since it's not like anyone would see their armpits and other bits unless they were married. I can't imagine this is a conversation they would have with each other either!

I was referring to my nether regions, not underarms and legs. I shave those. I can't swim, so I rarely wear a swimsuit. When I have to wear one, it's a modest one piece with a skirt. I get them from Woman Within. Seriously though, I got infected ingrown hairs from shaving down there. Waxing is absolutely out of the question. I do trim, but not a full shave. Sorry if that's TMI.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm pretty sure since Jill and Jana are midwives and doulas, they have to know about the mechanics of sex. I don't see how they can get around that.

[LittleOleMe]

My fiancée says men who are repelled by hair down there probably can't get it up anyway and that a Viagra would take care of that. He sure as hell hasn't said anything to me about my down south landscaping, and I don't shave or wax down there. I tried it once, and the razor burn was horrible. Never again.

I would absolutely agree with you here. It's a long story, but I've seen it for myself and your fiancee is correct. Our culture is so screwed up about sex.

As far as sex ed in the Duggar house goes, Josh actually explained this once. From his website:

Josh: As I grew older, I began to realize that there were two different kinds of people in this world – men & women. My parents shared with me a story of a young girl who asked her father a question about ‘that’ subject. Her father replied by handing her his suitcase and asking her to carry it. As the little girl tried to pick up the suitcase she quickly said, ‘I’m not big enough to carry it, its too heavy for me!’ Her father had illustrated his point. He then told his daughter, ‘Some things are too heavy for you to carry right now, but when you are older you will be able to handle them.’ It was that father’s hope, and my parent’s desire that inspired them to train their children to guard their hearts and keep them pure – knowing that the day would come when they would be able to carry that ‘suitcase.’

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they're given that stupid book and audiotape when they start courting. Because until then, it's not worth knowing. If they start learning that a penis gets hard and then goes inside you, they might start thinking about that and of course NIKE! impure thoughts happen. :roll: :shock:

[Alachantal]

I think J'chelle attempted to "write" a parentable about this topic at some point. Poorly written as they all are & she beat around the topic - but it sounds like they start discussing it with the kids when they hit puberty. Probably not considering its the Duggars, but anything is possible. I'm really more inclined to believe that they'll give the girl (or boy) that silly audiobook or some other sort of Christian reading material on the subject when they enter their engagement or a few days before the actual wedding.

Parentable: tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/how-duggars-approach-birds-and-bees-discussion.htm

[Vivi_music]

As far as sex ed in the Duggar house goes, Josh actually explained this once. From his website:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they're given that stupid book and audiotape when they start courting. Because until then, it's not worth knowing. If they start learning that a penis gets hard and then goes inside you, they might start thinking about that and of course NIKE! impure thoughts happen. :roll: :shock:

To be fair, I'm pretty certain the teenagers and adult boys know that a penis can get hard. You might be the most chaste teenage boy in the world but at one point in puberty, your body acts up on its own.

As for the girls, I really wonder to what extant they know their own body. Not all girls ''discover it by accident'', especially if they are thought to never ever touch down there. *sins!!!11!*

[Rachel333]

I was referring to my nether regions, not underarms and legs. I shave those. I can't swim, so I rarely wear a swimsuit. When I have to wear one, it's a modest one piece with a skirt. I get them from Woman Within. Seriously though, I got infected ingrown hairs from shaving down there. Waxing is absolutely out of the question. I do trim, but not a full shave. Sorry if that's TMI.

I was too, just didn't want to get too TMI, which is a ship that I think had already sailed anyway. :lol: I actually don't swim often either and usually wear swim trunks if I have to, but it seems like most other women my age do wear bikinis and such that would require significant grooming to wear.

I used to get horrible infected ingrown hairs as well even on my legs but especially on my armpits and, um, other areas, so I totally get why someone wouldn't want to shave. I'm not sure why I kept doing it when I'd be in pain for a week, but it did eventually get better to the point where it doesn't really happen anymore. It's just about personal comfort for me, but I'm not sure I want to go farther into that. :lol:

From what I understand too, it's becoming more expected for men to groom the same regions so... progress? While choices aren't made in a vacuum, I don't think it's all about porn, though. People have been removing that hair for centuries (Muslims are even required to) and I think it falls in and out of fashion.

Leg hair actually bothers me a lot less, and I really don't like that it has become essentially required that women shave even their legs and that natural body hair on women is considered gross (but yet it's fine for men to have much hairier legs and armpits), but yet I do it anyway so I suppose I can't really complain.

To be fair, I'm pretty certain the teenagers and adult boys know that a penis can get hard. You might be the most chaste teenage boy in the world but at one point in puberty, your body acts up on its own.

Girls taking care of little brothers also learn this, as I know from experience. :whistle: They probably wouldn't connect it to any sexual function, though.

[jerichojones]

Honestly though, how necessary would a sex talk be for them? I don't know about other people, but I worked out what goes where when I was a little kid, just using logic. I didn't know the specifics until I was a little older, but the amount of pregnancies they've been around, they'd have to know, not to mention the amount of sexual innuendo coming from JB and Josh.

That said, I doubt the girls are fully aware of everything but they'd have to know how sex works.

also, possibly TMI, but I don't shave down there and I wear bikini's every summer pretty much non stop. I do some trimming and I've never needed to do more than that to wear a bikini. I have shaved before but I don't really care for all the effort with maintaining; I don't like shaving and I'm lazy. I'm open to doing it again if I were in a relationship with someone who preferred that I did shave, but if they expected and demanded that I do, then I probably wouldn't just to piss them off.

tldr; I'm just not a big fan of shaving.

[Alachantal]

To be fair, I'm pretty certain the teenagers and adult boys know that a penis can get hard. You might be the most chaste teenage boy in the world but at one point in puberty, your body acts up on its own.

As for the girls, I really wonder to what extant they know their own body. Not all girls ''discover it by accident'', especially if they are thought to never ever touch down there. *sins!!!11!*

But how do they keep themselves clean? :shock: I mean, they must bathe/shower, so they must've gone down there at least to be clean and could've "accidentally" discovered themselves - but then most likely been too ashamed to say anything/had to spend time in the prayer closet over it. I get the feeling they only know their own bodies in a "theory" or textbook kind of way, which honestly saddens me because knowing yourself is such a wonderful thing (and I don't mean that in a purely sexual way).

[Cheetah]

To be fair, I'm pretty certain the teenagers and adult boys know that a penis can get hard. You might be the most chaste teenage boy in the world but at one point in puberty, your body acts up on its own.

Um, yeah, even 2 year old boys know that! It doesn't just kick in at puberty...

[LittleOleMe]

To be fair, I'm pretty certain the teenagers and adult boys know that a penis can get hard. You might be the most chaste teenage boy in the world but at one point in puberty, your body acts up on its own.

As for the girls, I really wonder to what extant they know their own body. Not all girls ''discover it by accident'', especially if they are thought to never ever touch down there. *sins!!!11!*

My son's penis still gets hard every time he poops. When he was a baby, that's how I knew he needed to poop - it would get hard. Kinda funny and kinda weird :lol: We practiced diaper free potty learning so that's how I saw it.

But yes, I was referring to the girls, sorry. Obviously the boys would know their penises get hard. (And I'm sure that's what they say, too. They probably don't even know the word "erection") Apologies.

Edited: I should add that my son is still a toddler and runs around naked at every chance he gets. And he still asks for the occasional butt wipe, even though he may not be done yet. So it's not like I'm watching or asking an older child about these things .. and with that I'm done ...

[Vivi_music]

Well, yes even little boys can get hard but once you hit the teenage years, it's more related to pleasure and sexual discovery, which I was referring too. Noctural erections and wet dreams aren't really controlled. Can you imagine how awkward it must be for the teenage boys the morning after, in a bedroom with your 10 brothers? :? (Never mind, just the thought makes me all uneasy inside! Can't imagine having no privacy in these teenage years.)

And I really wonder too, about the words they use. I really can't picture any Duggar (or any fundie for that matter) saying ''erection'', ''menstruation'', ''vulva'', etc. I was raised in a house where my mom wanted us to call a cat a cat, so I never felt like these words were shameful, weird or intimate. But for a fundie??

[LittleOleMe]

Well, yes even little boys can get hard but once you hit the teenage years, it's more related to pleasure and sexual discovery, which I was referring too. Noctural erections and wet dreams aren't really controlled. Can you imagine how awkward it must be for the teenage boys the morning after, in a bedroom with your 10 brothers? :? (Never mind, just the thought makes me all uneasy inside! Can't imagine having no privacy in these teenage years.)

And I really wonder too, about the words they use. I really can't picture any Duggar (or any fundie for that matter) saying ''erection'', ''menstruation'', ''vulva'', etc. I was raised in a house where my mom wanted us to call a cat a cat, so I never felt like these words were shameful, weird or intimate. But for a fundie??

I wonder if they are shamed about their wet dreams? Bc it's totally their fault right? :roll: I can't imagine not having that privacy. Privacy in general is extremely important to me. You could say I go out of my way to protect my privacy, but for me it's normal. I wouldn't want to share a room with all my sisters and not be able to masturbate or anything. Of course it's possible to be discreet but at some point someone will notice.

I very much believe in using the correct words. My children know that boys and girls are different and they know how their different. Unlike Josh, my (now preschool aged?) children know that. It bothers the hell out of me when people teach their children to use stupid euphemisms. I don't want my children to think "penis" or "vagina" or "sex" are dirty words. Just like I don't want them equating breasts with sex toys. I have never hid my breastfeeding and I never will. It's not dirty. Then you have these crazy fundies who can't even say the word "sex" and make a huge show of breastfeeding with their hooter hiders (I guess "hooters" is an okay word?? WTF) and then say WE'RE the ones screwed up. :cray-cray: Yeah. Okay.

[16strong]

So, what is sex ed like in the Duggar household? The actual sex, sex ed?

I recall Smuggar received a cd to listen to in his car (bet that made for some fun driving for him) and a book before he married Anna.

I recall this also. Does anyone know what book/cd it was? I want snarking material. :lol:

[coffeebean7]

I recall this also. Does anyone know what book/cd it was? I want snarking material. :lol:

I think it was an Ed Wheat book, "Before the Wedding Night". That guy has written a lot of books. I haven't read them, but I've read Amazon reviews of his books. Apparently oral sex is for lazy people, and a good wife has sex whenever her hubby wants it.

Out of curiosity I browsed the "First Years of Forever" on B&N, and a quote: "Do what your husband asks - as long as it does not involve sinning" (p.167). Further down the page, "She treats him with respect and shows a concern for his wishes. She meets his gruffest moments with a quiet spirit".

:roll:

[jerkit]

I think it was an Ed Wheat book, "Before the Wedding Night". That guy has written a lot of books. I haven't read them, but I've read Amazon reviews of his books. Apparently oral sex is for lazy people, and a good wife has sex whenever her hubby wants it.

Out of curiosity I browsed the "First Years of Forever" on B&N, and a quote: "Do what your husband asks - as long as it does not involve sinning" (p.167). Further down the page, "She treats him with respect and shows a concern for his wishes. She meets his gruffest moments with a quiet spirit".

:roll:

Explain the oral = lazy thing.

I think I may have just found my next book to read. I just finished Josh Harris' second book.

[shard1118]

Explain the oral = lazy thing.

I think I may have just found my next book to read. I just finished Josh Harris' second book.

Here is a sort-of-creepy forum: http://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewtopic.php?t=27040

[Antimony]

Here is a sort-of-creepy forum: http://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewtopic.php?t=27040

I know they just don't know and it's good they're at least posting stuff like this but it just seems sad to have it spelled out this way between a bunch of married adults. I also wonder if half of this is due to nerves -- being able to be very relaxed and comfortable is about 70% of having non-painful intercourse. The rest being some combination of knowing your body and being experienced and being properly wet.

The last time I remember being "painfully tight" is the second time I had my period (I was 12, I think?) and wanting to use tampons and panicking (it didn't go in, shocker) about the experience. I didn't try again with tampons until I was 17 when I got my period unexpectedly at a pool party but even as virgin who didn't masturbate with penetration, it was much better -- relaxing and being familiar with my body was all the difference there. I think it would be a huge help for fundies. (And I mean, your body is a temple or something, right, so uh, enjoy?)

Also a lot of them mention being well lubricated enough or not having bought any or known to buy any. Maybe if they didn't diss oral sex, this problem would be eliminated. (And if Jon Snow can figure cunnilingus out his first time, I'm sure some of these couples can too.)